Film The Redcafe Movie review thread

I can: Netflix gives directors too much creative control. Sometimes they give final cut to get name directors to create a project for them (e.g., David Fincher, Scott Frank, David Ayer). This means they don't screen their movies for test audiences. Recruited audience previews can be a nerve-wracking experience, and most of the time just sitting in an audience with your film and listening to them during the film is enough to know if something is working or not. However, the little focus groups afterwards where a group of about a dozen people are taken aside and asked to give their opinions verbally, those can be instructive.

Netflix also doesn't have a group of seasoned producers on hand to reign in directors when they are getting too precious. That's why something like The Pale Blue Eye was about 20 minutes too long, with a final act that petered out. Directors leave everything in now, because not only do they think every frame is a Rembrandt, but also there is no tertiary home video market where the deleted scenes will be found. So films are bloated. On a studio picture, the studio head who greenlit that film is responsible for how well it does. So if it's a bomb, that studio head might get the sack, and all of the development deals s/he inked will also be dissolved. At Netflix, it does not seem to matter if a movie does well or not, so no one's job is at stake, which results in poor quality control.
Yep, was gonna say this. Also, Netflix prefers films being longer, they apparently encourage it as it helps with their metrics.
 
Example: Manifest season 1 was screened for 151,400,000 hours. Manifest season 4 was screened for 262,200,000 hours and was canceled. A big "hit" like Stranger Things, season 4, was screened for 133,600,000 hours and is getting another season. Squid Game, was a phenomenon, screened for 87,200,000 hours. Very strange!
Isn’t that just because manifest has twice as many episodes?
 
Isn’t that just because manifest has twice as many episodes?
I don’t know, but their metric is hours screened not episodes. So if something was not very good but had a lot of episodes, it would have lower numbers than something quality with few episodes, which is the opposite of what juggernaut Stranger Things did. I personally think ST is wildly overrated, and something with a lot of problems and of lower filmmaking quality like Manifest stomping it surprised me.
 
I don’t know, but their metric is hours screened not episodes. So if something was not very good but had a lot of episodes, it would have lower numbers than something quality with few episodes, which is the opposite of what juggernaut Stranger Things did. I personally think ST is wildly overrated, and something with a lot of problems and of lower filmmaking quality like Manifest stomping it surprised me.
I believe manifest got cancelled by the original network and Netflix picked it up to make the last season, which led to a huge marketing campaign that had new people getting wind of it and old fans rewatching. I know this as my parents wouldn’t stop banging on about it at the time :lol:

Netflix must make a ton of money from the stranger things brand too, its merch is everywhere.
 
I believe manifest got cancelled by the original network and Netflix picked it up to make the last season, which led to a huge marketing campaign that had new people getting wind of it and old fans rewatching. I know this as my parents wouldn’t stop banging on about it at the time :lol:

Netflix must make a ton of money from the stranger things brand too, its merch is everywhere.
Maybe similar to how HBO acted like Girls was a generational touchstone, a cultural tidal wave, conquering all in its path, yet the numbers were about 600,000 per episode, which would have placed it behind reruns of Everybody Loves Raymond. But because they marketed the ever loving shit out of Girls to make themselves relevant, it had an outsized “influence”, even if that influence was manipulated by critical drubbings and hate-watching. Netflix pumps Stranger Things because they are suddenly part of the zeitgeist with it, instead of being laughingstocks from shit like Bright.
 
I don’t know, but their metric is hours screened not episodes. So if something was not very good but had a lot of episodes, it would have lower numbers than something quality with few episodes, which is the opposite of what juggernaut Stranger Things did. I personally think ST is wildly overrated, and something with a lot of problems and of lower filmmaking quality like Manifest stomping it surprised me.

I don’t follow. Surely more episodes = more hours screened? So any show with a shit load of episodes is going to have a big advantage in those metrics.
 
I don’t follow. Surely more episodes = more hours screened? So any show with a shit load of episodes is going to have a big advantage in those metrics.
I’m thinking if it’s bad people just stop watching. There’s a Russian show called Better Than Us with 11 seasons but I’d guess about 3 people made it past season 3. I made it into season 4, which is more than most, I’d reckon. I certainly don’t stick with shows if they are not very competent. My Netflix queue is littered with series I have barely made a dent in. I’m rarely compelled to finish a series. Even something that starts hot like Money Heist / House of Paper overstays its welcome. I watched the first two seasons but haven’t touched season 3.
 
I’m thinking if it’s bad people just stop watching. There’s a Russian show called Better Than Us with 11 seasons but I’d guess about 3 people made it past season 3. I certainly don’t stick with shows if they are not very competent. My Netflix queue is littered with series I have barely made a dent in. I’m rarely compelled to finish a series.

I dunno. I'm shocked how often you read comments from people along the lines of "Seasons 1 and 2 were pretty bad but season 3 is ok" You stuck with a show you didn't think was any good for two whole fecking seasons! And that's another wrinkle in the Netflix vs cinema thing. The smartphone. I'm convinced loads of people just have Netflix on in the background, while they tool around on their phone, only half watching the Netflix show. Hence bang average shite can get decent ratings if a bit of hype builds up around it.
 
I dunno. I'm shocked how often you read comments from people along the lines of "Seasons 1 and 2 were pretty bad but season 3 is ok" You stuck with a show you didn't think was any good for two whole fecking seasons! And that's another wrinkle in the Netflix vs cinema thing. The smartphone. I'm convinced loads of people just have Netflix on in the background, while they tool around on their phone, only half watching the Netflix show. Hence bang average shite can get decent ratings if a bit of hype builds up around it.
As far as Better Than Us goes, it slowly got worse over time and during season 3 I stopped. I didn't actually make it to season 4 (I went and checked). Seasons 1 and 2 were okay, kept waiting for it to kick off and it never did. I definitely started doing other shit with Netflix on in the background. Netflix will also load up a new episode and play it for you if you fall asleep while watching, as I do all the time. The screening data could be parsed to be more informative, like if there were a per episode breakdown, you would compare apples to apples.
 
@Salt Bailly and @Pogue Mahone


What can we learn from Netflix’s biggest viewership data reveal ever?
The streaming platform has shared its most in-depth look at what their many subscribers have been watching
Jesse Hassenger
In news that will excite anyone who spent a substantial chunk of their youth poring over the purple “Life” section of USA Today for Nielsen ratings and box office reports, Netflix has released a large chunk of its often-secret viewership data. The streaming service has long displayed shifting top 10 lists on its homepage, showing what’s currently most watched among their film and TV offerings. But this new data dump is an 18,000-row spreadsheet cataloging data for just about any movie or TV show over the course of January through June of this year.



So what, exactly, are the biggest shows and movies on Netflix? Many of the most popular shows feature or are aimed at young women. Anyone with access to social media or a Hot Topic will probably know that Wednesday, the service’s Addams Family-as-YA reboot, is a huge success; less merchandised but similarly high up the Netflix charts are Ginny & Georgia (essentially Netflix’s in-house Gilmore Girls), Outer Banks (a teen mystery series), Firefly Lane (a decades-spanning drama of female friendship), and the Korean drama series Crash Course in Romance. There’s also plenty of escapist action-adventure fare, like FUBAR (a father-daughter action-comedy with Arnold Schwarzenegger that plays a bit like a True Lies sequel) and the limited series Kaleidoscope (a time-scrambled heist drama whose episodes can be watched in any order); plus more serious action-intrigue like The Night Agent (the most-watched Netflix Thing for this entire six-month period) and The Diplomat (with Keri Russell as a newly appointed US ambassador).

There are neat little quirks to these charts: Kaleidoscope and The Diplomat both feature Rufus Sewell, suggesting a heretofore untapped appetite for an actor who usually plays scheming counts. But apart from the unique structure of Kaleidoscope that takes advantage of the streaming format, none of these shows would be especially difficult to picture on the network television of old. Indeed, for all of Netflix’s technological innovation and digital-world dominance, many of its biggest hits feel like throwbacks to somewhere around the turn of the most recent century, circa 24-era Fox and the dawn of the CW.

Echoes of that era emerge from the movie side, too, where chart-toppers The Mother (action-drama glorification of Jennifer Lopez), Murder Mystery 2 (Adam Sandler/Jennifer Aniston marital comedy), Extraction 2 (starring Chris Hemsworth, but with muscular retro-Schwarzeneggerian punch) and You People (Eddie Murphy in a culture-clash comedy) feel like they could have been theatrical-release hits somewhere around the year 2000. Not big hits, mind, but the kind of respectable theatrical successes that would go on to rent surprisingly well at Blockbuster for months after their VHS release.

Gabriel Basso in The Night Agent. Photograph: Dan Power/Netflix
This makes sense: Netflix has enormous reach, so their regular quests for Oscar glory are rarely going to be their most popular attractions (though last year’s awards success All Quiet on the Western Front evidently did well). The service hasn’t supplanted network TV or mainstream movies so much as created a convenient substitute for them – though to some, it may feel as if some kind of greater cultural ubiquity is still missing from these enormous-in-theory hits. Be honest: despite their obvious popularity, there’s almost certainly a movie or TV show mentioned in the above two paragraphs that you’d literally never heard of. (For me, it was Kaleidoscope.)

The numbers may hold the explanation for that void – though not necessarily in the way Netflix intends. The data on their spreadsheet measures viewership in individual hours watched, rather than tickets sold, or actual number of people watching. In other words, it uses a metric that is nearly impossible to compare with any other media not using this cockamamie system. Take The Mother, and its nearly 250m hours viewed. How does that compare with a traditional theatrical release? Well, The Mother is about two hours, so maybe 125 million people worldwide watched it. But even sampling a few minutes of the movie will count toward that huge time-logging total, so a genuine viewership of 125 million is probably high – especially considering that this would mean half of their entire global subscriber base of approximately 240 million people watched a Jennifer Lopez revenge movie within six weeks of its release. Presuming too many partial watches also involves way too many users to sound plausible. (For example, 100m hours would still require 200 million viewers to watch 30 minutes of a movie.)

What we’re left with is still pretty much a guess, with the broadest of guidance and general common sense indicating that maybe 50 million people or so might have watched The Mother in full during May and June 2023. For a theatrical release, this would be impressive, indicating something on par with the global release of the recent Mission: Impossible sequel. Then again, new Mission: Impossible movies can’t conceivably rack up millions of autoplayed hours if enough account owners fell asleep on the couch while watching something else. Similarly, 500m hours of Wednesday could mean that its eight episodes were all watched by an audience twice the size of Seinfeld in 1996, or that tons of people sampled the pilot, or that its biggest fans watched the series many times through for comfort.

The real question is, why do some of us yearn to make these comparisons? Is it just nostalgia for checking those comprehensive Nielsen charts in the 1990s, when viewership numbers were actually impressive? On one hand, Netflix’s tendency to self-report all of its stats, whether in vague press releases or specific data dumps (that are also still pretty vague), demonstrates its tech-company bona fides, in the sense that it’s all potential bullshit. This vast company has helped upend how movies and TV shows are made, yet hard data about their actual success in reaching viewers more or less amounts to “trust us”.

Jonah Hill and Eddie Murphy in You People. Photograph: Tyler Adams/Netflix © 2023
On the other hand, the craving for data that accompanies so much writing about Netflix is a little perverse. (Put another way: probably a lot of people a quarter-century ago could name the most popular TV shows through a combination of their own viewing habits, social cues and magazine covers, not checking the Nielsen numbers.) Box office analysis is more of a spectator sport than ever, with its own weird caveat that a lot of the spectators seem to want to charge into the announcer booth and start calling the game themselves – at least judging by how widely some of this information is shared with a kind of deranged glee. Have you heard that Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom is in financial trouble? It would make sense if you hadn’t, considering that it’s not commercially available for another week. Yet reporting on estimates of estimates of estimates has reporting (and fans) calling time of death on movies before they’re even out.

If nothing else, this Netflix data rejects that model of breathlessness. Instead of making a box office call two weeks before a movie is released, they’re waiting for six months of accumulation, which shows the long-tail catch-up of earlier seasons of their biggest hits outperforming plenty of new stuff. At the same time, the knowledge of which movies and shows command a greater audience than kids rewatching Sing 2 may not prove entirely satisfying. Box office hits may be an old-fashioned notion, and more niche-driven than ever with hyper-targeted events like Five Nights at Freddy’s, but they also feel pretty definitive: people saw this. Going to the movies yourself offers more evidence, albeit anecdotal: my showing was packed, or I was the only one there.

Streaming TV and especially movies don’t have the same feedback, while at the same time, the socialized internet demands more of a verdict than ever; declaring a movie a hit or a flop fits snugly into the confines of a tweet. Not knowing how many other people are sharing your experience – or having an experience that you should check out yourself – isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it’s a tough habit to break. (There’s also a hack for that, at least with one medium: go to the movies.) Nielsen and box office charts may be the simple results of a popularity contest, but they also functioned as cultural cheat sheets, letting readers know what they might get up to in their downtime, if they don’t have strong opinions or tastes of their own. Netflix is trying to provide a little of that on their own terms. For the most part, though, their solution is characteristic of a service that often comes across like network TV crossed with giant digital pacifier: watch it all, watch everything, watch whatever. So long as it’s with us.
 
@Salt Bailly and @Pogue Mahone


What can we learn from Netflix’s biggest viewership data reveal ever?
The streaming platform has shared its most in-depth look at what their many subscribers have been watching
Jesse Hassenger
In news that will excite anyone who spent a substantial chunk of their youth poring over the purple “Life” section of USA Today for Nielsen ratings and box office reports, Netflix has released a large chunk of its often-secret viewership data. The streaming service has long displayed shifting top 10 lists on its homepage, showing what’s currently most watched among their film and TV offerings. But this new data dump is an 18,000-row spreadsheet cataloging data for just about any movie or TV show over the course of January through June of this year.



So what, exactly, are the biggest shows and movies on Netflix? Many of the most popular shows feature or are aimed at young women. Anyone with access to social media or a Hot Topic will probably know that Wednesday, the service’s Addams Family-as-YA reboot, is a huge success; less merchandised but similarly high up the Netflix charts are Ginny & Georgia (essentially Netflix’s in-house Gilmore Girls), Outer Banks (a teen mystery series), Firefly Lane (a decades-spanning drama of female friendship), and the Korean drama series Crash Course in Romance. There’s also plenty of escapist action-adventure fare, like FUBAR (a father-daughter action-comedy with Arnold Schwarzenegger that plays a bit like a True Lies sequel) and the limited series Kaleidoscope (a time-scrambled heist drama whose episodes can be watched in any order); plus more serious action-intrigue like The Night Agent (the most-watched Netflix Thing for this entire six-month period) and The Diplomat (with Keri Russell as a newly appointed US ambassador).

There are neat little quirks to these charts: Kaleidoscope and The Diplomat both feature Rufus Sewell, suggesting a heretofore untapped appetite for an actor who usually plays scheming counts. But apart from the unique structure of Kaleidoscope that takes advantage of the streaming format, none of these shows would be especially difficult to picture on the network television of old. Indeed, for all of Netflix’s technological innovation and digital-world dominance, many of its biggest hits feel like throwbacks to somewhere around the turn of the most recent century, circa 24-era Fox and the dawn of the CW.

Echoes of that era emerge from the movie side, too, where chart-toppers The Mother (action-drama glorification of Jennifer Lopez), Murder Mystery 2 (Adam Sandler/Jennifer Aniston marital comedy), Extraction 2 (starring Chris Hemsworth, but with muscular retro-Schwarzeneggerian punch) and You People (Eddie Murphy in a culture-clash comedy) feel like they could have been theatrical-release hits somewhere around the year 2000. Not big hits, mind, but the kind of respectable theatrical successes that would go on to rent surprisingly well at Blockbuster for months after their VHS release.

Gabriel Basso in The Night Agent. Photograph: Dan Power/Netflix
This makes sense: Netflix has enormous reach, so their regular quests for Oscar glory are rarely going to be their most popular attractions (though last year’s awards success All Quiet on the Western Front evidently did well). The service hasn’t supplanted network TV or mainstream movies so much as created a convenient substitute for them – though to some, it may feel as if some kind of greater cultural ubiquity is still missing from these enormous-in-theory hits. Be honest: despite their obvious popularity, there’s almost certainly a movie or TV show mentioned in the above two paragraphs that you’d literally never heard of. (For me, it was Kaleidoscope.)

The numbers may hold the explanation for that void – though not necessarily in the way Netflix intends. The data on their spreadsheet measures viewership in individual hours watched, rather than tickets sold, or actual number of people watching. In other words, it uses a metric that is nearly impossible to compare with any other media not using this cockamamie system. Take The Mother, and its nearly 250m hours viewed. How does that compare with a traditional theatrical release? Well, The Mother is about two hours, so maybe 125 million people worldwide watched it. But even sampling a few minutes of the movie will count toward that huge time-logging total, so a genuine viewership of 125 million is probably high – especially considering that this would mean half of their entire global subscriber base of approximately 240 million people watched a Jennifer Lopez revenge movie within six weeks of its release. Presuming too many partial watches also involves way too many users to sound plausible. (For example, 100m hours would still require 200 million viewers to watch 30 minutes of a movie.)

What we’re left with is still pretty much a guess, with the broadest of guidance and general common sense indicating that maybe 50 million people or so might have watched The Mother in full during May and June 2023. For a theatrical release, this would be impressive, indicating something on par with the global release of the recent Mission: Impossible sequel. Then again, new Mission: Impossible movies can’t conceivably rack up millions of autoplayed hours if enough account owners fell asleep on the couch while watching something else. Similarly, 500m hours of Wednesday could mean that its eight episodes were all watched by an audience twice the size of Seinfeld in 1996, or that tons of people sampled the pilot, or that its biggest fans watched the series many times through for comfort.

The real question is, why do some of us yearn to make these comparisons? Is it just nostalgia for checking those comprehensive Nielsen charts in the 1990s, when viewership numbers were actually impressive? On one hand, Netflix’s tendency to self-report all of its stats, whether in vague press releases or specific data dumps (that are also still pretty vague), demonstrates its tech-company bona fides, in the sense that it’s all potential bullshit. This vast company has helped upend how movies and TV shows are made, yet hard data about their actual success in reaching viewers more or less amounts to “trust us”.

Jonah Hill and Eddie Murphy in You People. Photograph: Tyler Adams/Netflix © 2023
On the other hand, the craving for data that accompanies so much writing about Netflix is a little perverse. (Put another way: probably a lot of people a quarter-century ago could name the most popular TV shows through a combination of their own viewing habits, social cues and magazine covers, not checking the Nielsen numbers.) Box office analysis is more of a spectator sport than ever, with its own weird caveat that a lot of the spectators seem to want to charge into the announcer booth and start calling the game themselves – at least judging by how widely some of this information is shared with a kind of deranged glee. Have you heard that Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom is in financial trouble? It would make sense if you hadn’t, considering that it’s not commercially available for another week. Yet reporting on estimates of estimates of estimates has reporting (and fans) calling time of death on movies before they’re even out.

If nothing else, this Netflix data rejects that model of breathlessness. Instead of making a box office call two weeks before a movie is released, they’re waiting for six months of accumulation, which shows the long-tail catch-up of earlier seasons of their biggest hits outperforming plenty of new stuff. At the same time, the knowledge of which movies and shows command a greater audience than kids rewatching Sing 2 may not prove entirely satisfying. Box office hits may be an old-fashioned notion, and more niche-driven than ever with hyper-targeted events like Five Nights at Freddy’s, but they also feel pretty definitive: people saw this. Going to the movies yourself offers more evidence, albeit anecdotal: my showing was packed, or I was the only one there.

Streaming TV and especially movies don’t have the same feedback, while at the same time, the socialized internet demands more of a verdict than ever; declaring a movie a hit or a flop fits snugly into the confines of a tweet. Not knowing how many other people are sharing your experience – or having an experience that you should check out yourself – isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it’s a tough habit to break. (There’s also a hack for that, at least with one medium: go to the movies.) Nielsen and box office charts may be the simple results of a popularity contest, but they also functioned as cultural cheat sheets, letting readers know what they might get up to in their downtime, if they don’t have strong opinions or tastes of their own. Netflix is trying to provide a little of that on their own terms. For the most part, though, their solution is characteristic of a service that often comes across like network TV crossed with giant digital pacifier: watch it all, watch everything, watch whatever. So long as it’s with us.
Basically what I got out of all that is: cutesy, lifetime type stuff and movies that were big attractions in the 90s still have a huge audience. No wonder they keep canceling higher production value shows. Then again, the fact Hulu is still a thing probably should have hinted at why Netflix is pumping out more formerly regular cable networked type shows at an increasing rate. And the likes of that same Hulu and others like Peacock are probably seeing their viewership numbers dwindle in return. Feels a bit like how Hallmark has kept itself relevant for so long.
 
@Salt Bailly and @Pogue Mahone


What can we learn from Netflix’s biggest viewership data reveal ever?
The streaming platform has shared its most in-depth look at what their many subscribers have been watching
Jesse Hassenger
In news that will excite anyone who spent a substantial chunk of their youth poring over the purple “Life” section of USA Today for Nielsen ratings and box office reports, Netflix has released a large chunk of its often-secret viewership data. The streaming service has long displayed shifting top 10 lists on its homepage, showing what’s currently most watched among their film and TV offerings. But this new data dump is an 18,000-row spreadsheet cataloging data for just about any movie or TV show over the course of January through June of this year.



So what, exactly, are the biggest shows and movies on Netflix? Many of the most popular shows feature or are aimed at young women. Anyone with access to social media or a Hot Topic will probably know that Wednesday, the service’s Addams Family-as-YA reboot, is a huge success; less merchandised but similarly high up the Netflix charts are Ginny & Georgia (essentially Netflix’s in-house Gilmore Girls), Outer Banks (a teen mystery series), Firefly Lane (a decades-spanning drama of female friendship), and the Korean drama series Crash Course in Romance. There’s also plenty of escapist action-adventure fare, like FUBAR (a father-daughter action-comedy with Arnold Schwarzenegger that plays a bit like a True Lies sequel) and the limited series Kaleidoscope (a time-scrambled heist drama whose episodes can be watched in any order); plus more serious action-intrigue like The Night Agent (the most-watched Netflix Thing for this entire six-month period) and The Diplomat (with Keri Russell as a newly appointed US ambassador).

There are neat little quirks to these charts: Kaleidoscope and The Diplomat both feature Rufus Sewell, suggesting a heretofore untapped appetite for an actor who usually plays scheming counts. But apart from the unique structure of Kaleidoscope that takes advantage of the streaming format, none of these shows would be especially difficult to picture on the network television of old. Indeed, for all of Netflix’s technological innovation and digital-world dominance, many of its biggest hits feel like throwbacks to somewhere around the turn of the most recent century, circa 24-era Fox and the dawn of the CW.

Echoes of that era emerge from the movie side, too, where chart-toppers The Mother (action-drama glorification of Jennifer Lopez), Murder Mystery 2 (Adam Sandler/Jennifer Aniston marital comedy), Extraction 2 (starring Chris Hemsworth, but with muscular retro-Schwarzeneggerian punch) and You People (Eddie Murphy in a culture-clash comedy) feel like they could have been theatrical-release hits somewhere around the year 2000. Not big hits, mind, but the kind of respectable theatrical successes that would go on to rent surprisingly well at Blockbuster for months after their VHS release.

Gabriel Basso in The Night Agent. Photograph: Dan Power/Netflix
This makes sense: Netflix has enormous reach, so their regular quests for Oscar glory are rarely going to be their most popular attractions (though last year’s awards success All Quiet on the Western Front evidently did well). The service hasn’t supplanted network TV or mainstream movies so much as created a convenient substitute for them – though to some, it may feel as if some kind of greater cultural ubiquity is still missing from these enormous-in-theory hits. Be honest: despite their obvious popularity, there’s almost certainly a movie or TV show mentioned in the above two paragraphs that you’d literally never heard of. (For me, it was Kaleidoscope.)

The numbers may hold the explanation for that void – though not necessarily in the way Netflix intends. The data on their spreadsheet measures viewership in individual hours watched, rather than tickets sold, or actual number of people watching. In other words, it uses a metric that is nearly impossible to compare with any other media not using this cockamamie system. Take The Mother, and its nearly 250m hours viewed. How does that compare with a traditional theatrical release? Well, The Mother is about two hours, so maybe 125 million people worldwide watched it. But even sampling a few minutes of the movie will count toward that huge time-logging total, so a genuine viewership of 125 million is probably high – especially considering that this would mean half of their entire global subscriber base of approximately 240 million people watched a Jennifer Lopez revenge movie within six weeks of its release. Presuming too many partial watches also involves way too many users to sound plausible. (For example, 100m hours would still require 200 million viewers to watch 30 minutes of a movie.)

What we’re left with is still pretty much a guess, with the broadest of guidance and general common sense indicating that maybe 50 million people or so might have watched The Mother in full during May and June 2023. For a theatrical release, this would be impressive, indicating something on par with the global release of the recent Mission: Impossible sequel. Then again, new Mission: Impossible movies can’t conceivably rack up millions of autoplayed hours if enough account owners fell asleep on the couch while watching something else. Similarly, 500m hours of Wednesday could mean that its eight episodes were all watched by an audience twice the size of Seinfeld in 1996, or that tons of people sampled the pilot, or that its biggest fans watched the series many times through for comfort.

The real question is, why do some of us yearn to make these comparisons? Is it just nostalgia for checking those comprehensive Nielsen charts in the 1990s, when viewership numbers were actually impressive? On one hand, Netflix’s tendency to self-report all of its stats, whether in vague press releases or specific data dumps (that are also still pretty vague), demonstrates its tech-company bona fides, in the sense that it’s all potential bullshit. This vast company has helped upend how movies and TV shows are made, yet hard data about their actual success in reaching viewers more or less amounts to “trust us”.

Jonah Hill and Eddie Murphy in You People. Photograph: Tyler Adams/Netflix © 2023
On the other hand, the craving for data that accompanies so much writing about Netflix is a little perverse. (Put another way: probably a lot of people a quarter-century ago could name the most popular TV shows through a combination of their own viewing habits, social cues and magazine covers, not checking the Nielsen numbers.) Box office analysis is more of a spectator sport than ever, with its own weird caveat that a lot of the spectators seem to want to charge into the announcer booth and start calling the game themselves – at least judging by how widely some of this information is shared with a kind of deranged glee. Have you heard that Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom is in financial trouble? It would make sense if you hadn’t, considering that it’s not commercially available for another week. Yet reporting on estimates of estimates of estimates has reporting (and fans) calling time of death on movies before they’re even out.

If nothing else, this Netflix data rejects that model of breathlessness. Instead of making a box office call two weeks before a movie is released, they’re waiting for six months of accumulation, which shows the long-tail catch-up of earlier seasons of their biggest hits outperforming plenty of new stuff. At the same time, the knowledge of which movies and shows command a greater audience than kids rewatching Sing 2 may not prove entirely satisfying. Box office hits may be an old-fashioned notion, and more niche-driven than ever with hyper-targeted events like Five Nights at Freddy’s, but they also feel pretty definitive: people saw this. Going to the movies yourself offers more evidence, albeit anecdotal: my showing was packed, or I was the only one there.

Streaming TV and especially movies don’t have the same feedback, while at the same time, the socialized internet demands more of a verdict than ever; declaring a movie a hit or a flop fits snugly into the confines of a tweet. Not knowing how many other people are sharing your experience – or having an experience that you should check out yourself – isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it’s a tough habit to break. (There’s also a hack for that, at least with one medium: go to the movies.) Nielsen and box office charts may be the simple results of a popularity contest, but they also functioned as cultural cheat sheets, letting readers know what they might get up to in their downtime, if they don’t have strong opinions or tastes of their own. Netflix is trying to provide a little of that on their own terms. For the most part, though, their solution is characteristic of a service that often comes across like network TV crossed with giant digital pacifier: watch it all, watch everything, watch whatever. So long as it’s with us.
Interesting article - even if you can more or less summarize it as follows: 'What do all these data mean? Everything and nothing, but ultimately it's all meaningless.' Fair enough though.

I was curious where it was from btw. It's The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2023/dec/13/top-watched-shows-netflix-data
 
Basically what I got out of all that is: cutesy, lifetime type stuff and movies that were big attractions in the 90s still have a huge audience. No wonder they keep canceling higher production value shows. Then again, the fact Hulu is still a thing probably should have hinted at why Netflix is pumping out more formerly regular cable networked type shows at an increasing rate. And the likes of that same Hulu and others like Peacock are probably seeing their viewership numbers dwindle in return. Feels a bit like how Hallmark has kept itself relevant for so long.
I think the novelty is wearing off. People want to be part of the zeitgeist, whether that’s Stranger Things, or The Mandalorian, or whatever, and they/we/I am getting tired of having to subscribe to 10 services just to get a mediocre fare of TV. Cable TV only has to drop their prices and everyone/I will come running back. TV does have a confort quality to it, like Mac ‘n’ Cheese. Watching stuff in your own private queue that is nothing like anyone else sorta robs the community aspect of it. There are no water cooler conversations about TV, or few. I don’t know. Netflix is sure blowing a lot of money on shitty product, though!
 
Thanks, I should have posted the link and an excerpt. I got lazy. :)
Oh, no, no need for an excerpt. I just thought that, after reading all that, the conclusion actually really is kinda nihilistic. I always appreciate a link to the source though. ;)
 
I my opinion No , watch the original.
Thanks. Figured it was probably The Omen level of pointless remake of a classic, just saw it had top billing on effedupmovies.com today for some reason.
 
Is there a carrie remake or sequel thats kind of good? I think i've seen a few different versions of it with most being pretty poor but thought there was one decent one amongst the rest.
Carrie 2 from the 90's i think it was after looking.
 
Is the 2013 Carrie 'reimagining' worth watching?
@Dirty Schwein @pauldyson1uk
This was my review
Carrie (2013)

Not a patch on the original, the acting apart for Moore was poor at best, I thought the girl who played Carrie was hopelessly out of her depth, did not do the role justice.
The burning of the prom was not has good as the original, for me did not have the shock value.
Not the poorest remake I have ever seen, but it comes pretty close.

3/10
 
X

In 1979, a group of young filmmakers set out to make an adult film in rural Texas, but when their reclusive, elderly hosts catch them in the act, the cast find themselves fighting for their lives.
Never really got going for me, very predictable .
Tried it best to be s 80's style slasher, but never made it, the old couple were just not believable, mind you when they were banging away, that was pretty horrific !
The only saving grace was Mia Goth, she was decent.
There was plenty of gore in the last 20 mins or so but by that time I had lost interest.

4/10
 
People can be quite harsh on Netflix. For the price they offer they are still the service with the most varieties offered and they never shy away from banking movies on a consistent basis even if some of them are just popcornish 2 hour flick like red notice or grey man.

And its not like they're chargin an enormous amount. Their subscription is only the price of a ticket admission or probably 2 at most.

If i have to cut everything I'd probably only ended up with YT Premium and Netflix
 
X

In 1979, a group of young filmmakers set out to make an adult film in rural Texas, but when their reclusive, elderly hosts catch them in the act, the cast find themselves fighting for their lives.
Never really got going for me, very predictable .
Tried it best to be s 80's style slasher, but never made it, the old couple were just not believable, mind you when they were banging away, that was pretty horrific !
The only saving grace was Mia Goth, she was decent.
There was plenty of gore in the last 20 mins or so but by that time I had lost interest.

4/10
Did you get the Mia Goth dual role while watching? I didn’t.
 
This was my review
Carrie (2013)

Not a patch on the original, the acting apart for Moore was poor at best, I thought the girl who played Carrie was hopelessly out of her depth, did not do the role justice.
The burning of the prom was not has good as the original, for me did not have the shock value.
Not the poorest remake I have ever seen, but it comes pretty close.

3/10
:lol:Nice put down. Brian de Palma has his criticse but he did a great job with the original and the cool -and pretty rare then- use of splitscreen.

No, it's shite. The hardest part of Carrie 2013 to believe is that Chloe Grace Moretz would be anything other than the most popular girl in her school.
From a quick google you're right, she looks way too attractive. No disrespect to Sissy Spacek and her appearance then, but a slightly odd looking ginger was perfect for the role.

I'll find something else to watch.
 
Pearl

In 1918, a young woman on the brink of madness pursues stardom in a desperate attempt to escape the drudgery, isolation, and lovelessness of life on her parents' farm.
This is a prequal to X and I thought it was far better.
Mia Goth is 10/10, she was just fantastic, she went from sympathetic to out and out physio effortlessly.
There is 2 stand out parts for me, 5 minute monologue and the smile at the end , that just gets creeper the longer it goes on.
One of the better films I have watched this year

8/10
 
Speak No Evil

A Danish family visits a Dutch family they met on a holiday. What was supposed to be an idyllic weekend slowly starts unraveling as the Danes try to stay polite in the face of unpleasantness.
I enjoyed this more than I expect to, after reading reviews on here, but FFS all those Red Flags and they still made stupid choices.
The film made you feel uncomfortable and shocked, just what a horror should make you feel like, so it worked on that level.
WTF was that ending all about, it came from nowhere with no explanation.
I read that there is already a remake coming out next year, hopefully with a better ending.

6/10
 
Pearl

In 1918, a young woman on the brink of madness pursues stardom in a desperate attempt to escape the drudgery, isolation, and lovelessness of life on her parents' farm.
This is a prequal to X and I thought it was far better.
Mia Goth is 10/10, she was just fantastic, she went from sympathetic to out and out physio effortlessly.
There is 2 stand out parts for me, 5 minute monologue and the smile at the end , that just gets creeper the longer it goes on.
One of the better films I have watched this year

8/10
How bloody and or graphic is this? Just now did a google search on Mia Goth, and realized she has never had eyebrows. I thought that was something she did for the character, but no.
 
@Salt Bailly and @Pogue Mahone


What can we learn from Netflix’s biggest viewership data reveal ever?
The streaming platform has shared its most in-depth look at what their many subscribers have been watching
Jesse Hassenger
In news that will excite anyone who spent a substantial chunk of their youth poring over the purple “Life” section of USA Today for Nielsen ratings and box office reports, Netflix has released a large chunk of its often-secret viewership data. The streaming service has long displayed shifting top 10 lists on its homepage, showing what’s currently most watched among their film and TV offerings. But this new data dump is an 18,000-row spreadsheet cataloging data for just about any movie or TV show over the course of January through June of this year.



So what, exactly, are the biggest shows and movies on Netflix? Many of the most popular shows feature or are aimed at young women. Anyone with access to social media or a Hot Topic will probably know that Wednesday, the service’s Addams Family-as-YA reboot, is a huge success; less merchandised but similarly high up the Netflix charts are Ginny & Georgia (essentially Netflix’s in-house Gilmore Girls), Outer Banks (a teen mystery series), Firefly Lane (a decades-spanning drama of female friendship), and the Korean drama series Crash Course in Romance. There’s also plenty of escapist action-adventure fare, like FUBAR (a father-daughter action-comedy with Arnold Schwarzenegger that plays a bit like a True Lies sequel) and the limited series Kaleidoscope (a time-scrambled heist drama whose episodes can be watched in any order); plus more serious action-intrigue like The Night Agent (the most-watched Netflix Thing for this entire six-month period) and The Diplomat (with Keri Russell as a newly appointed US ambassador).

There are neat little quirks to these charts: Kaleidoscope and The Diplomat both feature Rufus Sewell, suggesting a heretofore untapped appetite for an actor who usually plays scheming counts. But apart from the unique structure of Kaleidoscope that takes advantage of the streaming format, none of these shows would be especially difficult to picture on the network television of old. Indeed, for all of Netflix’s technological innovation and digital-world dominance, many of its biggest hits feel like throwbacks to somewhere around the turn of the most recent century, circa 24-era Fox and the dawn of the CW.

Echoes of that era emerge from the movie side, too, where chart-toppers The Mother (action-drama glorification of Jennifer Lopez), Murder Mystery 2 (Adam Sandler/Jennifer Aniston marital comedy), Extraction 2 (starring Chris Hemsworth, but with muscular retro-Schwarzeneggerian punch) and You People (Eddie Murphy in a culture-clash comedy) feel like they could have been theatrical-release hits somewhere around the year 2000. Not big hits, mind, but the kind of respectable theatrical successes that would go on to rent surprisingly well at Blockbuster for months after their VHS release.

Gabriel Basso in The Night Agent. Photograph: Dan Power/Netflix
This makes sense: Netflix has enormous reach, so their regular quests for Oscar glory are rarely going to be their most popular attractions (though last year’s awards success All Quiet on the Western Front evidently did well). The service hasn’t supplanted network TV or mainstream movies so much as created a convenient substitute for them – though to some, it may feel as if some kind of greater cultural ubiquity is still missing from these enormous-in-theory hits. Be honest: despite their obvious popularity, there’s almost certainly a movie or TV show mentioned in the above two paragraphs that you’d literally never heard of. (For me, it was Kaleidoscope.)

The numbers may hold the explanation for that void – though not necessarily in the way Netflix intends. The data on their spreadsheet measures viewership in individual hours watched, rather than tickets sold, or actual number of people watching. In other words, it uses a metric that is nearly impossible to compare with any other media not using this cockamamie system. Take The Mother, and its nearly 250m hours viewed. How does that compare with a traditional theatrical release? Well, The Mother is about two hours, so maybe 125 million people worldwide watched it. But even sampling a few minutes of the movie will count toward that huge time-logging total, so a genuine viewership of 125 million is probably high – especially considering that this would mean half of their entire global subscriber base of approximately 240 million people watched a Jennifer Lopez revenge movie within six weeks of its release. Presuming too many partial watches also involves way too many users to sound plausible. (For example, 100m hours would still require 200 million viewers to watch 30 minutes of a movie.)

What we’re left with is still pretty much a guess, with the broadest of guidance and general common sense indicating that maybe 50 million people or so might have watched The Mother in full during May and June 2023. For a theatrical release, this would be impressive, indicating something on par with the global release of the recent Mission: Impossible sequel. Then again, new Mission: Impossible movies can’t conceivably rack up millions of autoplayed hours if enough account owners fell asleep on the couch while watching something else. Similarly, 500m hours of Wednesday could mean that its eight episodes were all watched by an audience twice the size of Seinfeld in 1996, or that tons of people sampled the pilot, or that its biggest fans watched the series many times through for comfort.

The real question is, why do some of us yearn to make these comparisons? Is it just nostalgia for checking those comprehensive Nielsen charts in the 1990s, when viewership numbers were actually impressive? On one hand, Netflix’s tendency to self-report all of its stats, whether in vague press releases or specific data dumps (that are also still pretty vague), demonstrates its tech-company bona fides, in the sense that it’s all potential bullshit. This vast company has helped upend how movies and TV shows are made, yet hard data about their actual success in reaching viewers more or less amounts to “trust us”.

Jonah Hill and Eddie Murphy in You People. Photograph: Tyler Adams/Netflix © 2023
On the other hand, the craving for data that accompanies so much writing about Netflix is a little perverse. (Put another way: probably a lot of people a quarter-century ago could name the most popular TV shows through a combination of their own viewing habits, social cues and magazine covers, not checking the Nielsen numbers.) Box office analysis is more of a spectator sport than ever, with its own weird caveat that a lot of the spectators seem to want to charge into the announcer booth and start calling the game themselves – at least judging by how widely some of this information is shared with a kind of deranged glee. Have you heard that Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom is in financial trouble? It would make sense if you hadn’t, considering that it’s not commercially available for another week. Yet reporting on estimates of estimates of estimates has reporting (and fans) calling time of death on movies before they’re even out.

If nothing else, this Netflix data rejects that model of breathlessness. Instead of making a box office call two weeks before a movie is released, they’re waiting for six months of accumulation, which shows the long-tail catch-up of earlier seasons of their biggest hits outperforming plenty of new stuff. At the same time, the knowledge of which movies and shows command a greater audience than kids rewatching Sing 2 may not prove entirely satisfying. Box office hits may be an old-fashioned notion, and more niche-driven than ever with hyper-targeted events like Five Nights at Freddy’s, but they also feel pretty definitive: people saw this. Going to the movies yourself offers more evidence, albeit anecdotal: my showing was packed, or I was the only one there.

Streaming TV and especially movies don’t have the same feedback, while at the same time, the socialized internet demands more of a verdict than ever; declaring a movie a hit or a flop fits snugly into the confines of a tweet. Not knowing how many other people are sharing your experience – or having an experience that you should check out yourself – isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it’s a tough habit to break. (There’s also a hack for that, at least with one medium: go to the movies.) Nielsen and box office charts may be the simple results of a popularity contest, but they also functioned as cultural cheat sheets, letting readers know what they might get up to in their downtime, if they don’t have strong opinions or tastes of their own. Netflix is trying to provide a little of that on their own terms. For the most part, though, their solution is characteristic of a service that often comes across like network TV crossed with giant digital pacifier: watch it all, watch everything, watch whatever. So long as it’s with us.
I found something interesting in the report:
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The Teachers' Lounge 9/10

An educator who encourages free-thinking inspires their students to be their best selves despite facing opposition from traditional institutions. If you liked Dead Poets Society or Mr. Holland’s Opus you will probably like this.
 
Pearl

In 1918, a young woman on the brink of madness pursues stardom in a desperate attempt to escape the drudgery, isolation, and lovelessness of life on her parents' farm.
This is a prequal to X and I thought it was far better.
Mia Goth is 10/10, she was just fantastic, she went from sympathetic to out and out physio effortlessly.
There is 2 stand out parts for me, 5 minute monologue and the smile at the end , that just gets creeper the longer it goes on.
One of the better films I have watched this year

8/10
I too loved it when she started doing those burpees.

Seriously though, totally agree with your review. I think I enjoyed X more than you did, but Pearl is the better film and Mia Goth is a proper star.

Dunno if you're aware, but those 2 are part of a trilogy, the 3rd installment, MaXXXine, should be released some time in 2024 I guess.
 
How bloody and or graphic is this? Just now did a google search on Mia Goth, and realized she has never had eyebrows. I thought that was something she did for the character, but no.
It's got realistic violence, which is stronger than bloody violence in my opinion.
 
Leave The World Behind
I love duster movies and I love contained movies so i was in the mood for this and it didn't disappoint. Great cast all round, really dig the mystery and felt super tense with the paranoia around the characters. The ending was far smaller than expected and I can imagine people getting annoyed but fit me, it laddered up from the themes presented. I had a great journey with this film 8/10

Sick

Two girls decide to go to a secluded family home during COVID but someone follows them there. A slasher from the writer of Scream but it follows every genre connection with a COVID twist added to it. When the full narrative is revealed, I just rolled my eyes. Very forgettable but the action sequences felt realistic and I did enjoy that element. The ending was a disgrace 4/10
 
I too loved it when she started doing those burpees.

Seriously though, totally agree with your review. I think I enjoyed X more than you did, but Pearl is the better film and Mia Goth is a proper star.

Dunno if you're aware, but those 2 are part of a trilogy, the 3rd installment, MaXXXine, should be released some time in 2024 I guess.
I did not know it was a Trilogy, will definitely watch the 3rd