I can't vote nor really comment much clearly as I tried to help earlier and was completely misconstrued.
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The Reality Draft - SF: VivaJanuzaj vs Theon / MJJ
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
I can't vote nor really comment much clearly as I tried to help earlier and was completely misconstrued.
BTW, it's not Fãlcao but Falcão
Difficult, VJ hasn't really pushed forth the discussion of certain players and match ups here but I think his team has the advantage. Their strongest side in Rummenigge, Breitner and Reuter eats straight into the weakest part of MJJ/Theon's side where Rivaldo won't do much defensively, Campbell isn't natural at moving out to a left back whenever Rodriquez is beaten(which to be frank will be quite regularly both due to his position and who is up to.).
Falcao is also best when his own team has the ball, he can easily hold his own in any match up defensively - but here he has to not just hold his own but compensate for the left side being weak overall and I think for that you need someone who excelled nearly purely defensively or at least to a greater degree.
VJ's entire defensive four and midfield three are as good as they can possibly get and there is no holes what so ever in any particular area so I can't see there being a lot of chances created against him. It'd take the individual brilliance of Theon's players to create anything at all, and they certainly had the ability to provide that. I think their threat is similar to the overall threat of VJ where Zanetti, Seedorf, Keane, Savicevic, and RVN will share the burden of the threat, but the advantage on the right side for VJ makes me lean towards him.
For me Rummenigge and Breitner are individually up there with Falcao and Rivaldo which I think VJ could have pushed more. Considering they proved they played so well together I'd actually give Breitnigge the edge.
Overall Theon/MJJ did really well by playing a back 5.
Falcao is also best when his own team has the ball, he can easily hold his own in any match up defensively - but here he has to not just hold his own but compensate for the left side being weak overall and I think for that you need someone who excelled nearly purely defensively or at least to a greater degree.
VJ's entire defensive four and midfield three are as good as they can possibly get and there is no holes what so ever in any particular area so I can't see there being a lot of chances created against him. It'd take the individual brilliance of Theon's players to create anything at all, and they certainly had the ability to provide that. I think their threat is similar to the overall threat of VJ where Zanetti, Seedorf, Keane, Savicevic, and RVN will share the burden of the threat, but the advantage on the right side for VJ makes me lean towards him.
For me Rummenigge and Breitner are individually up there with Falcao and Rivaldo which I think VJ could have pushed more. Considering they proved they played so well together I'd actually give Breitnigge the edge.
Overall Theon/MJJ did really well by playing a back 5.
Scores are actually tied even now.
VivaJanuzaj (12)
.
Annahnomoss
crappycraperson
Stobzilla
.
evil_geko
Edgar Allan Pillow
PedroMendez
Spielmacher
RedMilo
Theon / MJJ (10) + 2 bonus votes
.
Chesterlestreet
harms
.
friendlytramp
ha_rooney
manikandan nair
sun_tzu
bucky
rpitroda
VivaJanuzaj (12)
.
Annahnomoss
crappycraperson
Stobzilla
.
evil_geko
Edgar Allan Pillow
PedroMendez
Spielmacher
RedMilo
Theon / MJJ (10) + 2 bonus votes
.
Chesterlestreet
harms
.
friendlytramp
ha_rooney
manikandan nair
sun_tzu
bucky
rpitroda
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Ah, the semifinal opponents rule! Forgot about that.
@annah Campbell won't need to go at left back to cover for rodri, he can stay inside and prevent the wingers from cutting in from the.lcb position.
Stobzilla is a manager DraftMaster
Lol, I checked it again before posting, yet still missed that!
Sorry lads for not being active enough, the weekend was bound to be less active from me but it was Theon's only option. I really think Annah summed it well here and got it spot on. There are two lethal combos in this match, Rivaldo-Romario is the best one, and right behind it is Breitner-Rummenigge. The thing is, my combo, although a little less strong but still superb, is facing a much weaker defensive players in Campbell at LCB and Rodriguez.
@viva your combo is also playing further away from goal to exploit that weakness while ours is perfectly poised to take advantage of the gap that Will arise from playing three.box to.box midfielders all of whom liked going forward.
Holy shit, what the hell happened here?! It was 4-9 when I checked this last.
Let's get this straight because there has been some absolute, colossal nonsense thrown around by Viva - From Souness being worse than Seedorf to Rivaldo not adding anything out wide. Just pure nonsense throughout this game.
The best attack and route to goal is quite comfortably Totti, Rivaldo and Falcao feeding Romario - it's a level of threat completely unmatched by Viva's side.
The best three passers on the pitch are Totti, Falcao and Souness, with probably Rivaldo fourth, which is something Viva can't match. His best passer and his best midfielder in Keane isn't even playing in his best role.
In terms of scoring goals Ruud was reliant on service - far more than Romario and Rivaldo were - he isn't going to dribble past players like Passarella because that was never his game. There is a lack of supply here and Ruud relied on that.
The best midfielder on the pitch is Falcao and unlike Viva's team he's playing in his best role and with a complimentary partner - whereas Keane, Viva's best midfielder, is playing a restricted holding game behind two other box to box midfielders.
In Passarella we have the best defender on the pitch and unlike last time, he has the freedom to affect the game in possession. You're looking at next to Baresi, Scirea and Beckenbauer the best defender of all time - he's quite comfortably more than a match for Viva's attack.
On the flipside Rivaldo and Romario are probably the two best attackers in the draft and some of the only players capable of winning a game by themselves - whether it's Romario bursting through a defence or Rivaldo smashing one in from 30 yards. It's a level of raw, match winning ability that isn't matched on Viva's side.
Romario has been mentioned already, but Rivaldo is more likely to win the game with a moment of magic than anyone on the opposition - You can't ignore that.
Let's get this straight because there has been some absolute, colossal nonsense thrown around by Viva - From Souness being worse than Seedorf to Rivaldo not adding anything out wide. Just pure nonsense throughout this game.
The best attack and route to goal is quite comfortably Totti, Rivaldo and Falcao feeding Romario - it's a level of threat completely unmatched by Viva's side.
The best three passers on the pitch are Totti, Falcao and Souness, with probably Rivaldo fourth, which is something Viva can't match. His best passer and his best midfielder in Keane isn't even playing in his best role.
In terms of scoring goals Ruud was reliant on service - far more than Romario and Rivaldo were - he isn't going to dribble past players like Passarella because that was never his game. There is a lack of supply here and Ruud relied on that.
The best midfielder on the pitch is Falcao and unlike Viva's team he's playing in his best role and with a complimentary partner - whereas Keane, Viva's best midfielder, is playing a restricted holding game behind two other box to box midfielders.
In Passarella we have the best defender on the pitch and unlike last time, he has the freedom to affect the game in possession. You're looking at next to Baresi, Scirea and Beckenbauer the best defender of all time - he's quite comfortably more than a match for Viva's attack.
On the flipside Rivaldo and Romario are probably the two best attackers in the draft and some of the only players capable of winning a game by themselves - whether it's Romario bursting through a defence or Rivaldo smashing one in from 30 yards. It's a level of raw, match winning ability that isn't matched on Viva's side.
Romario has been mentioned already, but Rivaldo is more likely to win the game with a moment of magic than anyone on the opposition - You can't ignore that.
I disagree with that logic, just because they are further from the box(and their not far at all) from Romario-Rivaldo doesn't mean they'll do less damage now won't it? If Breitner beats his man using a one two with Kalle, and the latter goes on a run between the defenders thats an easy route to goal, or even if Kalle does make that run and draws Campbell/Passarella with him, that leaves RVN 1vs1 on another defender and Savicevic with the other, so the final ball really doesn't have to go to Kalle although they'll create the attack together.
No need to go like that. Keep it a bit classy.
I never said that.
I disagree, the best route to goal is comfortably Kalle and Breitner on the right against you weaker left side, with the non arguably the weakest player by a mile - Rodriguez.
Romario is definitely the best goalscorer in the game and he really does have better passers behind him, but my midfield is brilliant in shielding an already exceptional back four, it takes really something special to reach a "level of threat completely unmatched by Viva's side".
That shows lack of understanding of football. It's the water carrier all over again in the other side of the pitch though. Like you don't need a water carrier to stop a midfield, you don't need a passer at the level of Scholes or Rivaldo or Xavi to break a defense. Jesus, plenty of goal were scored without a classic "playmaker", all three of my midfield players, plus Savicevic and Kalle aren't weak on the ball, they are all really complete players, so to imply that they can't make a pass in the final third is ignorant imo.
He's not being restricted. You should read my tactics again.
Yeah well you also have the three weakest defenders in Rodriguez Campbell and McGrath, the first one is incredibly weak, while the other two are really good but just not as good as Vierchowod or Kohler, just as good as Reuter but he has much better cover imo.
Yeah, as I said, if Rivaldo will smash one from 30 yards or Romario will go on and beat 2-3 defenders I'm powerless, but that's a risk I have to take, I do think however I got you covered in the other routes to goal pretty well.
Dido. I said a few times that both of them can score with an individual moment of brilliance, but I don't think there's too much more threat from other ways.
The way I see it current score is:
VivaJanuzaj (15)
VivaJanuzaj (15)
- crappycraperson
- Stobzilla
- VivaJanuzaj
- Annahnomooss
- evil_geko
- Pat_Mustard
- Edgar Allan Pillow
- Isotope
- PedroMendez
- Spielmacher
- RedMilo
- Chesterlestreet
- Theon
- harms
- friendlytramp
- ha_rooney
- manikandan nair
- sun_tzu
- bucky
- rpitroda
Sorry, but any appeal to class is quite ironic coming from you when you've already been called out twice by different people for saying absurd things in this game. The fact is that you don't have knowledge on a lot of these players, but you'll put them down just because their on the opposition. You're views on Souness were flat out absurd, it's clear you've never seen him kick a football but you go around proclaiming him the worst midfielder on the pitch. Awful, and complete nonsense.
Yes you did say Rivaldo offered nothing wide - You said the only wide threat comes from Cafu, when Rivaldo actually played left wing. He literally played left wing, and literally played in a 3-5-2 in which he pulled out to the left behind a #9. But no, you say he won't add width.
In terms of Ruud I think it's you showing a lack of knowledge of the player - he is reliant on service. This is just the type of player he was. Players like Romario, Messi, Ronaldo are capable of dribbling past people and creating their own opportunities whereas Ruud was never, ever like that. It's just a fact. You lack any quality passers in your team, Keane is the best but he won't split a defence, and you lack creativity.
Savicevic is your most clear cut creative player and he constantly blew hot and cold. He's a clear two levels below the likes of Rivaldo, or Totti.
If you'll check, after your long post where I pointed out on each part where I disagree, never said anything about you saying I'm talking about "colossal nonsense" when it came to Souness vs Seedorf. I conceded that I might've underrated Souness yet I do think you're not giving Seedorf the credit he deserves.
And you can keep you're bad mouthing and carry on for all I care, you're getting a little too excited over an internet game if you ask me. I lost my temper once on antohan calling him a dick because it was something that happened several times throughout the draft, anto btw I'm sorry(if you care).
And no, I never said Rivaldo won't offer width. I did the say the only real width comes from Cafu and I stand behind it. Rivaldo hated playing on that LW role and although he was good at it, at his best you'll want him to come more centrally than focus on creating width. Again, Rivaldo might create some width wide left, along with Rodriguez of course, but I didn't and don't feel that's as serious wide threat like Cafu because Rivaldo will naturally like to come more to the inside.
As for Ruud, I think you're showing a lack of reading abilities because I never, but never said he will take the ball and beat 5 men, however, in my last post I explained how he will get width here. So no, I don't think he's Messi or Romario type of player, but he's a hell of a finisher with great supply here. I can quote myself and explain again, but I suggest you just read back.
Anyway, if I said anything you considered as trash talk or anything I take it back and apologize, nothing meant to be said like a cnut(besides that one thing to anto), and I don't want to make it more than it is - a draft game online. Lets keep it fun mate.
while we are talking about what players would like to do naturally, why not focus on the fact that keane would hate his current role and Will naturally go forward leaving us plenty of space to exploit.
@Theon You either deliberately ignore Breitner and Rummenigge in all your comments or you underrate both massively.
I can see Rummenigge drifting between Campbell and your left wing all game long and causing you all sorts of problems similar to for example here:
Not that easy to find great footage of Breitner and Rummenigge though .
Rivaldo wasn't a better player than Rummenigge, nor is he more likely to create a moment of magic on his own and you have nowhere near the same quality of players containing Rummenigge than Viva has against Rivaldo.
I can see Rummenigge drifting between Campbell and your left wing all game long and causing you all sorts of problems similar to for example here:
Not that easy to find great footage of Breitner and Rummenigge though
.@Theon You either deliberately ignore Breitner and Rummenigge in all your comments or you underrate both of them massively.
Rivaldo wasn't a better player than Rummenigge, nor is he more likely to create a moment of magic on his own and you have nowhere near the same quality of players containing Rummenigge than Viva has against Rivaldo.
I can see Rummenigge drifting between Campbell and the left wing all game long and causing you all sorts of problems similar to for example here:
Not that easy to find great footage of Breitner and Rummenigge though
Hoping you would step in. Couldn't find good footage of them anywhere. I'm on my phone but I'll watch it later for sure.
And I agree, I'm not sure Rummenigge is better than Rivaldo but the latter is definitely facing a much stronger defense.
I don't think Keane will hate it one bit. As I said in my tactics Keane will get the license he needs to go forward. As opposed to his time with Scholes, Breitner and Seedorf are much more aware defensively and he'll get plenty of freedom imo
viva there is a reason why no manager has played with three or even two.box to.box midfielders.you need to define players roles to reduce gaps which Will arise where you have given all three men permission to go forward or stay back rather than tactical roles.
Sorry Viva but that isn't true again mate, all I've said is that a lot of your comments have been nonsense/untrue and I stand by that. Not sure how that's being unreasonable and it certainly isn't losing my temper - You were the one who started swearing and called someone a dickhead after all
.But no, I stand by what I've said there - A lot of what you've said hasn't been true. The Souness comment was the most funny/blatant because it's clear you haven't seen Souness kick a football, yet you'll tell everyone in the thread that he's the worst midfielder on the pitch. I just thought it was silly that you would tell people that, when you aren't qualified to say those things because you have never seen him.
Let's remember mate that two other managers/voters have brought up the fact that you're saying things which just aren't true, so I'm not sure how I'm out of line by pointing that out!
That said, it's a fair tactic to make silly comments in these drafts. You're not the only one who has done it.
Does anyone have any idea where you can find footage from La Liga in the 70's ? I'd love to see a few Breitner & Netzer vs Neeskens & Cruyff matches. I'm pretty sure that Breitner's and Netzer's time at Real is seriously underrated because they never created the same hype as the Dutch pair. Breitner turned a struggling Real side into the best team in Spain when he joined Netzer in '74 and even reuniting Cruyff with Neeskens couldn't stop it.
What do you make of van Gaal's Ajax midfield with Rijkaard, Davids and Seedorf?
Well I'm not surprised you disagree considering his nationality and the fact he played for Bayern. We won't agree here and I think it's a fair comment to say that Rivaldo had a higher peak than Rummenigge. I think that lots of people would have that view.
That's not a criticism of Rummenigge either. There are only a handful of forwards who have reached the level Rivaldo did at the turn of the century.
I think I already would have voted for your team, if you played Veron instead of Seedorf, Viva. While I think that Theon went way over the top with some of his comments, your midfield could do with a bit more creativity and I'm not sold on 3 box to box midfielders either. I don't see a problem in defense though, they'll make it work, take turns moving forward and cover for each other. I just don't see what the 3rd one adds to the team instead of a creative player.
That would be quite sad.
You probably missed the edit, but I don't see how that would be sad. There are only a handful of players who reached that peak - he virtually won Barcelona La Liga by himself, in Van Gaal's second season. And then he was the best player in a fantastic Brazilian side which won the World Cup in '02.
I don't think it's a criticism to say that. But like I say, we won't see eye to eye there probably.
I'm sorry you feel that Theon. I have seen Souness play but tbh in videos mostly and rarely a full match because of my young age, but I do know him. Maybe I'm at fault for underrating Souness but I think Seedorf is the better man, or better at this match.
MJJ, I think you're wrong here. Again, it might've not been done often, but in theory for me it will definitely work and there just haven't been too many possibilities throughout history to have three complete midfielders who can easily both attack or defend like I've done here. If you had as a manager the option to play Keane Neeskens and Rendondo you would jump on the option, because they are all incredibly balanced
MJJ, I think you're wrong here. Again, it might've not been done often, but in theory for me it will definitely work and there just haven't been too many possibilities throughout history to have three complete midfielders who can easily both attack or defend like I've done here. If you had as a manager the option to play Keane Neeskens and Rendondo you would jump on the option, because they are all incredibly balanced
I know how great Rivaldo was in '99 (both at Barca and at the Copa America) and in '02.
Went for Theon. It's a very tough decision as I like VJ's set-up a lot. Love VJ's central defensive partnership so reckon Romario would have a tough time of it, but it's the space in front of it that could present an issue. Can see the middle of the park deadlocked, but Cafu would have scope to influence the match going forward. That would pull across Seedorf, meaning Keane and Breitner go man-to-man on Falcao on Souness. And that might just be enough to give Rivaldo and Totti a bit of space between the lines to yield some damage.
As a rule I try not to tolerate any bullshit and, if it crosses a certain line, would probably vote the other way to make the point. I mind Anto making a similar point when somebody was dissing Simeone's quality in a previous sheep draft.
I'm sure you do. That wasn't meant to come off as patronising, if you read it that way.
I didn't watch that midfield play but rijkaard was a brilliant defensive midfielder so wouldn't call him as a box to box nidfielser.
Generally as a rule in this drafts only one manager is allowed to post at one time.
I have been busy with a lot of stuff so been a scan voter but read up on the discussion on here. Don't see a problem with 3 box to box midfielders, all 3 are intelligent enough to adapt accordingly. MJJ/Theon have also been smart with Pasarella's role/description. He is basically a sweeper to cover for that massive sized howler that is Rodriguez at LWB. As a general rule I always consider young players in this draft with the rule that only their career till now should be take into account and not their potential. With that mind, Rodriguez has no business starting this semi. Anyway, other than covering for that hole, Pasarella is also aiding in MF battle. In normal cicrumstances I would not have an issue with that but I think here it is gonna be one or the other for him.
Then I have never agreed that Rivaldo is great out wide. For me, he has always done his best work through the middle. Even in 2002, he played as a LF forward for Brazil and was not really responsible to stretch play out wide. I rate Totti myself a lot as well, but Theon is trying to pass him for a Laudrup clone behind Romario. If Souness and Falcao don't win the MF battle against Viva's trio, I think he will struggle to get into the game.
I have been busy with a lot of stuff so been a scan voter but read up on the discussion on here. Don't see a problem with 3 box to box midfielders, all 3 are intelligent enough to adapt accordingly. MJJ/Theon have also been smart with Pasarella's role/description. He is basically a sweeper to cover for that massive sized howler that is Rodriguez at LWB. As a general rule I always consider young players in this draft with the rule that only their career till now should be take into account and not their potential. With that mind, Rodriguez has no business starting this semi. Anyway, other than covering for that hole, Pasarella is also aiding in MF battle. In normal cicrumstances I would not have an issue with that but I think here it is gonna be one or the other for him.
Then I have never agreed that Rivaldo is great out wide. For me, he has always done his best work through the middle. Even in 2002, he played as a LF forward for Brazil and was not really responsible to stretch play out wide. I rate Totti myself a lot as well, but Theon is trying to pass him for a Laudrup clone behind Romario. If Souness and Falcao don't win the MF battle against Viva's trio, I think he will struggle to get into the game.
Agreed. It's not really a like-for-like comparison IMO but would take Rivaldo if forced to choose.
Agree with this. I know it's Keane and Veron, but Veron reached a higher peak than Seedorf and crucially offers something different.
You should, it's beautiful. An ageing Rijkaard playing in a box to box/libero role, storming forward and scoring quite a few goals, more than during his time at Milan, and then seemlessly dropping into defense, becoming a 4th defender in that 334/433 system. But it was a very specific set-up, almost impossible to recreate in my opinion.
I also think Viva missed a trick not play Zanetti at right and Alaba at left. Cafu against Alaba would be an issue but adding Zanetti to Viva;s right against opposition's susceptible left will be too big to overlook.
I know
.My views on Totti go well beyond this draft to be fair - You can search them, so it's not based on this draft. What I'm writing about Totti is written because I actually rate him that highly, as I say, it's all stuff I've said on the Caf before.
Totti wasn't a great dribbler, but in terms of passing he's as good as anyone in the draft. I include Laudrup in that.
ahh thanks for the advice. Will see if I can find a few of their matches online.
Will be fun to recreate it in a future draft as well if I like their style
I have never personally seen Totti as a pure number 10 myself.
Oddly, I actually preferred the 4222 you constructed in previous games over this formation. Shame losing Sammer loss lead to scrapping
Aye that's a good shout, although I can understand the need to balance the flanks. By the time Cafu reaches Zanetti/Alaba/whoever he's already presented a problem for Viva. Zanetti, Rummenigge with support from Breitner would've eviscerated Rodriguez.