The Reality Draft - SF: antohan vs The Red Viper

[The Red Viper]

I have read your tactics. You keep mentioning how the defence will keep its shape and won't have any gaps as it will be well protected? No matter how good Effenberg and Neeskens were, you can't have both of them playing at their best and yet make the midfield work. You then mention about how good Effenberg and Neeskens were at pressing. They were. But, what would they do when Rui Costa moves to that space just ahead of your defence? One of them has to track back, right?

Keane - Scholes worked quite well but then Keane was defensively and positionally was much more solid than either Neeskens and Effenberg here. And, Fergie did start Butt in a lot of games then as well.

 

[The Red Viper]

Gentile at times took the role Desailly has in this game, as a man marker(Against Argentina 82 for example) - Scirea was then left with Cabrini and Collovati - and Cabrini was an offensive full-back. I am not sure if TRV knew it or not, but it looks like a functional set up considering Stam-Scirea will be up primarily against Raul. With the support of two full-backs.

Doesn't mean I think he wins the match because of that or that everybody are perfect for their roles there, it just means that it's not tactically woeful.

No, I picked Desailly because of that only. I picked him with the idea that whenever Scirea moves forward, there is someone like Desailly there at the back who can cover for him. The way I see it, the trio of Stam - Scirea - Desailly can completely negate Raul and Baggio.

 

[antohan]

Seems like you conveniently forgot Suker.

Suker wasn't a regular at that stage. In fact, he didn't play in the game above, nor in the CL Final iirc. I obviously would prefer to have two strikers upfront and play both Vieri and Raúl, that's pretty obvious, but the notion that Raúl needs a Vieri is misplaced. He was a phenomenal footballer and would have a good game here. In any case, Vieri is lined up to go on in the second half, the question is who he comes on for, not if, so I would suggest you stop bigging up his importance

When Raul started his Madrid career with the main team, he played alongside Zamorano for a couple of seasons. Then Madrid sold Zamorano and bought Suker and Pedja to play alongside Raul. Yes, there were few games when they started with a front two of Pedja and Raul but majority of the time they had Suker and later Morientes. It was only for a brief period in 1998, they had Pedja and Raul start together otherwise they mostly played with a main striker in Suker/Morientes.

Which goes to show Raúl can play without a burly CF next to him and act strictly as a striker. I would also start Suker, Morientes and Zamorano ahead of Mijatovic, it's a no brainer but has little to do with Raúl.

As for Boniek, you are saying, you have given him a free role where he will do what he does best. That means he will be playing as a seconda punta for you? Because that was his best role.

No, his best role is being left free to roam, which includes but isn't restricted to that. I've written entire essays on how Boniek played, it really doesn't belong in a given category, but don't have the time now but will look them up.

Others agree with me that there's no place to pigeon-hole him:

There are players with bigger reputations, but very few players better than Boniek. He is too good to be restricted to one position

He’s a totally unique player, the best of his kind in the world

The Capocannoniere will go to someone who has Boniek as a team-mate

As for Amoros overlapping, I have Bastian to cover for him. And, that also means that should I win the ball back, you would basically have three defenders to defend against Henry, Eto'o and Robben in one on one situations.

If Bastian is covering Sergi, who the hell is left in midfield? I would be more worried about your non-existent midfield than my 3vs3 with two central midfielders in front of them and Amoros/Nedved/Boniek tracking back.

You don't even have the ball and you make it sound like a goal waiting to happen.

 

[antohan]

@antohan your writeup has possession/off possession, but I think it fails to properly consider how your team will react to a counter (oh, the irony of quick transitions). Saying Neeskens/Effenberg will always be there on either side is just a stretch imo. From how I see it, with Amoros having the going forward licence, it will be Neeskens who will be hovering around middle looking for opportunities to go forward and Effenberg in a relatively more holding role operating between defence to midfield. As the game changes, the roles may get interchanged, but for a majority play, I see Neeskens operating ahead of Effenberg.

With Desailly keeping a eye on Baggio, it will be hard for Schweini to control the middle all by himself and the role of Rui Costa is not helping things in the middle for TRV.

Have gone for anto here.

TRV said it and told you it was a stretch. I never did, where does not gung ho, supporting and occasionally surging forward mean they are on either side? It's very much the way you describe, one gets a bit more adventurous and the other doesn't and will vary depending on how play has shaped up/which side is needing that overload.

 

[antohan]

I have read your tactics. You keep mentioning how the defence will keep its shape and won't have any gaps as it will be well protected? No matter how good Effenberg and Neeskens were, you can't have both of them playing at their best and yet make the midfield work. You then mention about how good Effenberg and Neeskens were at pressing. They were. But, what would they do when Rui Costa moves to that space just ahead of your defence? One of them has to track back, right?

Maybe, maybe not, it depends on where you have the ball and who has it as you only have two people who can place relatively dangerous passes. Rui Costa doesn't require a personal man-marking detail. There's absolutely no chance that having a midfield with Nedved-Efffenberg-Neeskens-Boniek I would bother play a cabeza de bagre to takee care of Rui Costa. The two lines staying compact can deal with him without having someone running around with him like a headless chicken.

Keane - Scholes worked quite well but then Keane was defensively and positionally was much more solid than either Neeskens and Effenberg here. And, Fergie did start Butt in a lot of games then as well.

Maybe, but Scholes wasn't, and Nedved is an upgrade on Becks with Boniek an upgrade on Giggs.

 

[antohan]

No, I picked Desailly because of that only. I picked him with the idea that whenever Scirea moves forward, there is someone like Desailly there at the back who can cover for him. The way I see it, the trio of Stam - Scirea - Desailly can completely negate Raul and Baggio.

In an isolated way, probably. The problem is Boniek and Nedved are beating your fullbacks regularly so it's not as hunky-dory as you make it sound.

I still don't get how Desailly keeps his man-marking on Baggio while covering Scirea. If thee ball is lost then Baggio is on the loose, right? Does Scirea go for him? Or do they swap quickly and Desailly legs it to wherever Baggio is?

Lots of moving parts in your defensive setup, yet you have the cheek to question a very simple and coherent back four which becomes a three when the rightback forages forward.

 

[The Red Viper]

Suker wasn't a regular at that stage. In fact, he didn't play in the game above, nor in the CL Final iirc. I obviously would prefer to have two strikers upfront and play both Vieri and Raúl, that's pretty obvious, but the notion that Raúl needs a Vieri is misplaced. He was a phenomenal footballer and would have a good game here. In any case, Vieri is lined up to go on in the second half, the question is who he comes on for, not if, so I would suggest you stop bigging up his importance

Which goes to show Raúl can play without a burly CF next to him and act strictly as a striker. I would also start Suker, Morientes and Zamorano ahead of Mijatovic, it's a no brainer but has little to do with Raúl.

Morientes started in the UCL Final.

And, I never said Raul - Baggio would suck. Both of them are good footbellers. Its the same thing as having Stam - Vidic as the central defenders. Can it work? Yes. It is ideal? No. Baggio - Raul can work but Raul would be sacrificed here.

 

[The Red Viper]

Maybe, maybe not, it depends on where you have the ball and who has it as you only have two people who can place relatively dangerous passes. Rui Costa doesn't require a personal man-marking detail. There's absolutely no chance that having a midfield with Nedved-Efffenberg-Neeskens-Boniek I would bother play a cabeza de bagre to takee care of Rui Costa. The two lines staying compact can deal with him without having someone running around with him like a headless chicken.

Again. Just because one is a good presser doesn't mean he has great positional sense. Let me give you a perfect example. Gerrard is very good when it comes to pressing but his positional sense when he plays as a central midfielder is usually criticized because he doesn't track the opposition attacking midfielder off the ball. That is what I am trying to point here. Neeskens and Effenberg would press but only when Rui Costa has the ball. When he doesn't have the ball and moves to those pocket of spaces in between your defence and midfield, that is where you would struggle. The only way you sort it is by playing a compact team which would require you to push your defence up and play a high-backline.

 

[The Red Viper]

In an isolated way, probably. The problem is Boniek and Nedved are beating your fullbacks regularly so it's not as hunky-dory as you make it sound.

I still don't get how Desailly keeps his man-marking on Baggio while covering Scirea. If thee ball is lost then Baggio is on the loose, right? Does Scirea go for him? Or do they swap quickly and Desailly legs it to wherever Baggio is?

Lots of moving parts in your defensive setup, yet you have the cheek to question a very simple and coherent back four which becomes a three when the rightback forages forward.

Firstly, Desailly isn't man-marking Baggio like Gentile on Zico/Maradona. Secondly, if Scirea has moved forward and we lose the possession, I would still have four players in Sagnol, Stam, Desailly and Sergi at the back to negate your threat from counters. And bear in mind, we are talking about Scirea and not the braindead David Luiz. What mate Scirea such a greta defender was that he had the tactical nous and footballing brain to pick up the right moment and time to make those forward runs, so that he doesn't expose his defence.

As for me having the cheeck to question your defence, well that is because it isn't that good enough. I am not facing a defence of Maldini - Nesta - Kohler - Zanetti. Its Abidal - Thiago Silva - Cirp Ferrara - Amoros. I have already seen what Robben did to Abidal. That leaves us with Ciro and Thiago Silva up against Henry and Eto'o and no matter how much you try to sell Ciro and Thiago Silva, both aren't that great to keep up with Henry and Eto'o. If it was Nesta and Kohler/Rio/Desailly etc, it would have been a great contest but it isn't.

 

[antohan]

Morientes started in the UCL Final.

And? I was talking about Suker and how he didn't play in the CL or Intercontinental final. Raúl and Mijatovic started upfront in the latter.

And, I never said Raul - Baggio would suck. Both of them are good footbellers. Its the same thing as having Stam - Vidic as the central defenders. Can it work? Yes. It is ideal? No. Baggio - Raul can work but Raul would be sacrificed here.

Good? Understatement of the century. Baggio shits on anyone you have upfront and Raúl is the top CL/European Cup scorer ever.

 

[antohan]

Neeskens and Effenberg would press but only when Rui Costa has the ball. When he doesn't have the ball and moves to those pocket of spaces in between your defence and midfield, that is where you would struggle. The only way you sort it is by playing a compact team which would require you to push your defence up and play a high-backline.

Which don't exist. Seriously, READ THE WRITE-UP IN THE OP. I AM playing a compact team, but that doesn't per se mean a high line as I'm controlling and building play from deep positions relying on the quick transitions that can be executed via Nedved, Boniek, Baggio and Amoros with Thiago/Effenberg/Neeskens and Nedved doing the passing.

As I said, I'm not playing a high line by default, certainly not going gung-ho with my central midfielders, but if such pockets were to arise then the defensive line would move up accordingly. Two completely different things.

 

[Joga Bonito]

And? I was talking about Suker and how he didn't play in the CL or Intercontinental final. Raúl and Mijatovic started upfront in the latter.



Good? Understatement of the century. Baggio shits on anyone you have upfront and Raúl is the top CL/European Cup scorer ever.

A match-up between you and harms would be an interesting one

 

[The Red Viper]

And? I was talking about Suker and how he didn't play in the CL or Intercontinental final. Raúl and Mijatovic started upfront in the latter.

Good? Understatement of the century. Baggio shits on anyone you have upfront and Raúl is the top CL/European Cup scorer ever.

I know you were talking about Suker. The reason I mentioned Morientes was to point you out leaving few games here and there, Real Madrid mostly played either one of Suker or Morientes along with Raul and Mijatovic.

As for Raul being the top CL/European Cup scorer ever, well, he did that playing alongside a main striker. And, don't be so touchy, man. Relax.

 

[antohan]

Firstly, Desailly isn't man-marking Baggio like Gentile on Zico/Maradona.

Good to know since apparently Baggio had completely disappeared from the game. Roberto fecking Baggio, who single-handedly took Italy to a WC Final with his attacking exploits.

Secondly, if Scirea has moved forward and we lose the possession, I would still have four players in Sagnol, Stam, Desailly and Sergi at the back to negate your threat from counters. And bear in mind, we are talking about Scirea and not the braindead David Luiz. What mate Scirea such a greta defender was that he had the tactical nous and footballing brain to pick up the right moment and time to make those forward runs, so that he doesn't expose his defence.

Sure, Scirea wasn't an idiot, I just wasn't clear on how compatible the cover and the man-marking was. Since you aren't man-marking Baggio that's all well and good. Particularly when I have the ball and get it to him.

As for me having the cheeck to question your defence, well that is because it isn't that good enough. I am not facing a defence of Maldini - Nesta - Kohler - Zanetti. Its Abidal - Thiago Silva - Cirp Ferrara - Amoros. I have already seen what Robben did to Abidal. That leaves us with Ciro and Thiago Silva up against Henry and Eto'o and no matter how much you try to sell Ciro and Thiago Silva, both aren't that great to keep up with Henry and Eto'o. If it was Nesta and Kohler/Rio/Desailly etc, it would have been a great contest but it isn't.

It doesn't leave you like that, you just skipped Amoros who is the best fullback on the pitch. Convenient that on my counters you count Sergi and Sagnol as being there in your backline but Amoros isn't in mine. Isn't it?

What Robben did to Abidal was run around a lot and not get anywhere in particular most of the time even when he beat him. Clips are great at showing when he beats him, not when he doesn't. If all Robben does with Abidal in this game amounts to that much I'll be fine, yet he has even better cover amid a more conservative setup.

Finally, saying Thiago Silva isn't that great to deal with Sammy Eto'o is just plain wrong. Henry will be dangerous, but Amoros with Ferrara as cover shouldn't be too worried about him. Not at all actually.

 

[The Red Viper]

Which don't exist. Seriously, READ THE WRITE-UP IN THE OP. I AM playing a compact team, but that doesn't per se mean a high line as I'm controlling and building play from deep positions relying on the quick transitions that can be executed via Nedved, Boniek, Baggio and Amoros with Thiago/Effenberg/Neeskens and Nedved doing the passing.

As I said, I'm not playing a high line by default, certainly not going gung-ho with my central midfielders, but if such pockets were to arise then the defensive line would move up accordingly. Two completely different things.

So you are playing a compact team without a highbackline but at the same time your midfielders play in their natural position and not deep? That really makes sense.

And ohh, if pockets of space were to arise, then the defensive line pushes up, right? Thanks for that because Henry, Eto'o and Robben would love that space beyond your defence.

 

[antohan]

A match-up between you and harms would be an interesting one

Who is a better player than Baggio? Rui Costa? No. Robben? No. Henry? No. Eto'o? No.

 

[antohan]

I know you were talking about Suker. The reason I mentioned Morientes was to point you out leaving few games here and there, Real Madrid mostly played either one of Suker or Morientes along with Raul and Mijatovic.

Because they didn't play a 4-4-1-1, or did they? You know when they didn't play Morientes or Suker but Raúl and Mijatovic? When they adopted more conservative and compact setups, very much like mine. Yet Raúl is "sacrificed" and I'm supposed to be exposed at the back, somehow.

As for Raul being the top CL/European Cup scorer ever, well, he did that playing alongside a main striker. And, don't be so touchy, man. Relax.

The point is no one gets to be the top CL/European Cup scorer being a limited player. He certainly wasn't a "big man-little man" striker. Christ, you portray him as some sort of one-dimensional Kevin Phillips.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Who is a better player than Baggio? Rui Costa? No. Robben? No. Henry? No. Eto'o? No.

No, I'm not going against your point on Baggio's ability. I'm just impressed by your abrasive, explosive and mud-slinging style and a match between you and harms would have been wonderful, ultimately resulting in one of you potentially getting banned

 

[Jayvin]

Rui Costa would play in the same role he did at Fiorentina which is as a number ten. The arrow simply meant, Rui Costa would play in that zone between Thiago Silva - Ferrara and Effenberg - Neeskens. Due to the fact that neither of Effenberg and Neeskens were holding midfielder, he will get plenty of space and time on the ball. At the same time, he can always drop deep and support the midfield when we don't have the possession. He had good work-rate and was hardly like Ozil.

Eh? I know this has probably been addressed by now, but that is such a lazy statement. You're basically saying that unless a player is a 'dedicated holding midfielder', he is incapable of pressing or getting in opponents faces.

Like I kept banging on about in our game, I think that Sergi-Henry left flank is a glaring weakness. Anto has better personnel to exploit it than my team did though, so I've voted for him.

 

[antohan]

So you are playing a compact team without a highbackline but at the same time your midfielders play in their natural position and not deep? That really makes sense.

And ohh, if pockets of space were to arise, then the defensive line pushes up, right? Thanks for that because Henry, Eto'o and Robben would love that space beyond your defence.

They are in central midfield, at least one of them is as Neeskens will probably charge forward more regularly than expected to exploit Schweini going AWOL to cover Sergi.

And yes, if pockets of space were to arise I do push up, but that's not the default but a rarity that results from occasions like the above one with Neeskens running into the vast empty space left by Schweini. Before celebrating it, remember one thing: I HAVE THE BALL when that happens, not you.

 

[antohan]

No, I'm not going against your point on Baggio's ability. I'm just impressed by your abrasive, explosive and mud-slinging style and a match between you and harms would have been wonderful, ultimately resulting in one of you potentially getting banned

Leopard can't change his spots and all that... I tried though. Seriously, read the OP and look for any mud-slinging. Going back to schoolyard rhetoric: he started it

 

[Joga Bonito]

Leopard can't change his spots and all that... I tried though. Seriously, read the OP and look for any mud-slinging. Going back to schoolyard rhetoric: he started it

No problems with it mate. Nice to have some explosive characters around to balance out the dour and mundane creatures like me. Perhaps you could just take it down a notch though as it makes you look too defensive and sensitive (not saying that you are) at times.

 

[Jayvin]

13-10 to anto at the moment, still plenty of managers left to vote. Could go either way

 

[Mani]

Close one.
I feel that Neeskens and scirea are not sold properly here.
If 3 front men for TRV is properly supported from MF then certainly has the upper hand.
I don't see the point of DM here when you have two good CM in the mould of Neeskens and Effenburg.
I don't understand why TRV choose to contain Baggio with Desaily,instead of starting with 5 at back with scirea in his natural role,going with narrow formation with durga in and sacrificing one strikers.
Still hard one to deside.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

13-10 to anto at the moment, still plenty of managers left to vote. Could go either way

Yup. Still too close to call.

Fantastic Semi! Both managers have a good argument going!

 

[antohan]

As the teams emerge from HT with Team Anto ahead, shivers go down Scirea's spine: Vieri is on for Raúl.

Yes, TRV has Stam, but not even Stam can be expected to win all his aerial duels with Bobo. Just a few would be enough, and it's probably ~50-50 when Stam does challenge him.

There's a further problem for TRV: Stam is on the left and is regularly called upon to cover Sergi or pick up Boniek running in between them, and Vieri would just pummel Gaetano and leave him physicallly and mentally drained soon enough.

So TRV has to look at swapping them, but given TRVs intricate defensive system, if he swaps them Desailly also has to swap with Schweini to carry on covering Scirea, in which case he either stops keeping an eye on Baggio, or the flank is no longer receiving any support from the midfield.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

@Edgar Allan Pillow

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Team changed for @antohan

I'm going to start demanding payment to update OP for ya!

 

[The Red Viper]

Eh? I know this has probably been addressed by now, but that is such a lazy statement. You're basically saying that unless a player is a 'dedicated holding midfielder', he is incapable of pressing or getting in opponents faces.

Eh?

I never said he is incapable of pressing. If anything, I already mentioned that has two good pressers in Effenberg and Neeskens. But just someone is a good presser doesn't mean he will be good defensively. Posiotioning is a key aspect as well. I simply said that while the likes of Effenberg and Neeskens are good at pressing but is applicable, when Rui Costa would have the ball. What happens when lets say, someone like Bastian or Scirea or one of my full-backs have the ball and Rui Costa attacks that space?

 

[antohan]

Not that it is only headers he can score from:

CL top scorer ever gives way to Italy's top scorer at World Cups (9 in 9 games) and Serie A's greatest ever scorer of headed goals.

That's what I call aces up the sleeve.

 

[The Red Viper]

They are in central midfield, at least one of them is as Neeskens will probably charge forward more regularly than expected to exploit Schweini going AWOL to cover Sergi.

And yes, if pockets of space were to arise I do push up, but that's not the default but a rarity that results from occasions like the above one with Neeskens running into the vast empty space left by Schweini. Before celebrating it, remember one thing: I HAVE THE BALL when that happens, not you.

Since you are mentioned Neeskens would be charging forward, Effenberg, a guy who played his best football alongside a DM with a fiveman defence behind him to do the defensive work is in charge of shutting down a playmaker of Rui Costa's calibre?

You talk about Boniek troubling Sergi and it will be true but Rui Costa and Robben would have as big an impact, if not bigger then.

 

[Jayvin]

Eh?

I never said he is incapable of pressing. If anything, I already mentioned that has two good pressers in Effenberg and Neeskens. But just someone is a good presser doesn't mean he will be good defensively. Posiotioning is a key aspect as well. I simply said that while the likes of Effenberg and Neeskens are good at pressing but is applicable, when Rui Costa would have the ball. What happens when lets say, someone like Bastian or Scirea or one of my full-backs have the ball and Rui Costa attacks that space?

Fair enough, seemed to me like you were implying that Rui Costa would always be free because anto didn't have have a specialist anchor man covering him, which I took issue with.

 

[antohan]

Since you are mentioned Neeskens would be charging forward, Effenberg, a guy who played his best football alongside a DM with a fiveman defence behind him to do the defensive work is in charge of shutting down a playmaker of Rui Costa's calibre?

Effenberg doesn't need to shut him down, just keep tabs on him. I have the ball. Seriously, it's not difficult, let's go through building blocks:

- YOU HAVE THE BALL: Four-man backline and four-man midfield ahead of them, deep and staying compact.

- I GET THE BALL BACK: Nedved, Boniek and Amoros charge forward. It's a quick transition, not the entire XI swarming forward. Neeskens and Effenberg are in support but are largely running the midfield, not the attacking moves.

- IF Schweini goes AWOL Neeskens bursts forward to overload the left side of your defence. That's the most exposed I get, having one man for every one of yours that is faffing about upfield while your team DOESN'T have the ball.

- IF you get the ball back only Schweini or Scirea could (under pressure) try execute a quick and dangerous ball forward.

- IT IS most likely this wouldn't be executed at all before I can start regrouping properly.

- I AM NOT particularly worried, it really isn't much to worry about.

You talk about Boniek troubling Sergi and it will be true but Rui Costa and Robben would have as big an impact, if not bigger then.

You keep banging on about Robben vs. Abidal when Abidal is playing as a defensive fullback. The difference with Sergi is 1. he isn't a defensive fullback and is in fact a pretty shit defender, 2. so if you are playing him defensively he is useless and will get beaten, and if you send him to attack, Boniek on the break will still advance as if he wasn't there because, simply, he won't be!

It's a completely different matchup.

Rui Costa is squeezed between two banks of four most of the game, nothing that will have as big an impact as you not having a left flank that can compete with my right one. I'll just keep crossing it for Bobo to bum Scirea and leave him unable to sit down for a week.

 

[antohan]

Just so I'm not said to be randomly throwing dirt at players. Your clip on "Abidal being destroyed" actually showed the few times Robben beat Abidal or forced him into a foul, yet he kept him at bay or delayed him long enough in those occasions.

Now, here's YOUR leftback, who maybe isn't strictly at fault for any of the goals (starting at 2:08) because he simply isn't anywhere near where he should be. He looks like fecking Bambi or Eyzaguirre Mark II.

Goal 1: watch Sergi (#7) jog his way back even after his covering centreback (Nadal) has been taken to the cleaners.
Goal 2: he is in the box for once, just not really doing anything useful at all.
Goal 3: Again the result of his covering centreback being taken to the cleaners, because he simply isn't in the picture, literally.
Goal 4: Again, nowhere in sight.

You are basically trying to stop Zibi Boniek and Manuel Amoros with Stam at leftback leaving Scirea all alone with mean Bobo, Schweini running to Jaap's aid only for the ball to be cut inside for the onrushing Neeskens with a clear unhindered route to goal.

Why would I worry too much about your counter when I can so easily slice right through you without overcommitting?

 

[antohan]

Am I the only one baffled by the lack of love for the Czech Fury?

I rate Sagnol, everybody knows that, but a player of this quality, operating left-to-centre and with no covering midfielder (since Desailly is onto Baggio or something like that)... He is being completely overlooked when I would personally have him down as a big contender for MotM here.

Odd. Or maybe this place is packed with Luke Shaws.

That's just a sneak preview of what can be found here:

 

[Annahnomoss]

Firstly, Desailly isn't man-marking Baggio like Gentile on Zico/Maradona. Secondly, if Scirea has moved forward and we lose the possession, I would still have four players in Sagnol, Stam, Desailly and Sergi at the back to negate your threat from counters.

Will be voting Antohan. I am not sure how your defense is going to work well with Desailly in a regular DM role here. It isn't about there being cover when he pushed forward, it is just about how the defense works.

I think you can't really play just one centre back next to Scirea with him in his libero/sweeper role. Considering you have mentioned him possibly moving upfield and what not it is clear to me it is the sweeper/libero version you are playing and not the elder "CB version" who wouldn't push forward at all.

 

[antohan]

Wow, slept all those hours and there's the one post. This is a bit dull

Where are all the regular managers? Theon and MJJ don't count, seeing as they play the other semi, but what about @Chesterlestreet @Skizzo @BorisDeLeFora @Raees @ctp and @Joga Bonito (who has been around but hasn't voted). Likewise, haven't heard from @Balu @Pat_Mustard @PedroMendez , while @Gio hasn't voted.

 

[Raees]

Don't worry bud, I've been watching the game unfold - will make my vote now.

 

[Gio]

What's the score here?

 

[antohan]

Also, if the discussion doesn't get more entertaining you can always take the 4:47mins it takes to watch that Nedved clip. It's worth all the time you spend on it and more.

Such an appropriate soundtrack for one of few players in recent memory to make me reminisce about my Juve supporting days. Legend, like AdP, sticking around when they got their titles taken and knocked to Serie B. That's my sort of player.

 

[Balu]

Wow, slept all those hours and there's the one post. This is a bit dull

Where are all the regular managers? Theon and MJJ don't count, seeing as they play the other semi, but what about @Chesterlestreet @Skizzo @BorisDeLeFora @Raees @ctp and @Joga Bonito (who has been around but hasn't voted). Likewise, haven't heard from @Balu @Pat_Mustard @PedroMendez , while @Gio hasn't voted.

I'm still struggling with your Baresi comment earlier and try to figure out if you really meant that Thiago Silva is as good as Baresi was. It's slightly confusing and kept me from making a decision

He'll need to retire and let a couple of decades go by before Thiago Silva-Ferrara is as highly rated as Baresi-Ferrara on a draft teamsheet.

It really sounds like you believe both should be rated on a similar level.