The Reality Draft - Round 1: The Red Viper vs Annahnomoss

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

vs

...............Team @The Red Viper .......................................................... Team @Annahnomoss ......................................

THE FORMATION


THE TEAM
​

We will play a 4-2-3-1 formation. Oliver Kahn is the goalkeeper. Rafael Da Silva and Sergi Barjuán would be the full-backs while Nemanja Vidić and Jaap Stam would be the centre-backs. The midfield comprises of a three man midfield of Dunga, Paul Scholes and Rui Costa. Dunga would be the defensive minded midfielder who would look to break the plays and win back the possession for us. Paul Scholes would be the playmaking central midfielder, whose role would be not only to control the tempo of the game but also spread the play with his exquisite long range passing. Rui Costa would play ahead of him as an attacking midfielder. He had fantastic work-rate, which helped him play as a central midfielder many times during late in his career. So, along with providing the through-balls for the attack, Rui Costa would drop deep and look to support the midfield when we don't have the possession.

Robert Prosinečki would play as a left sided attacking midfielder, a role similar to that of David Silva at Manchester City where he would look to play in between the lines and create space for the likes of Samuel Eto'o and Arjen Robben to expolit with their breathtaking pace and direct running. With Paul Scholes running the game as well as pulling strings from midfield and Rui Costa providing those delightful though-balls, both Samuel Eto'o and Arjen Robben would enjoy plenty of service. Samuel Eto'o would lead the lines and look to play on the shoulders of the last defender. Arjen Robben would play as a right wing forward in a free role. It would be similar to the role he plays at Bayern Munich where he takes on his man by isolating him in one-on-one situations. There is plenty of creativity and guile in the side with Paul Scholes, Rui Costa and Robert Prosinečki and the right direct players in Samuel Eto'o and Arjen Robben to make full use of it with their pace and penetration.

THE TACTICS​

We would play counter-attacking football. We would play a deep backline and ensure there isn't much space behind our back-line for the likes of Paolo Rossi, Pierre Littbarski and Raheem Sterling to exploit. Dunga would help Rafael out while dealing against either Raheem Sterling or Pierre Littbarski. Rui Costa would ensure Gaetano Scirea doesn't get too much time and space on the ball whenever he marches forward with the ball. Annahnomoss has got a good side. His defense is very good but his attack isn't really upto the mark in terms of quality of players. Paolo Rossi is a world-cup legend but the truth is he only performed at a top level in just the world-cups. Not denying he is a good player but he was never really that consistent as a player even though injuries didn't help his cause as well. Raheem Sterling, while immensely talented is still a youngster. So, most of the attacking responsibility falls on the shoulders of Pierre Littbarski who would be up against a very reliable and solid Sergi unless Annahnomoss starts Pierre Littbarski on the left wing, in which case Dunga would help Rafael out by doubling up on him.

In front of the great goalkeeper Preud'Homme we have;

Juventus and Italy's defensive line with Cabrini, Gentile and Scirea together with Colovatti(Italy) or Cuccureddu(Juventus) is considered one of top three defensive lines ever in the history of football.

They had a higher clean sheet ratio(52%!) and conceded less in Serie A(0.67 goals per game) than the Milan line with Baresi, Maldini, Costacurta and Tassotti.

Together they played in the tactical formation Zona Mista which consisted of Gentile in a defensive full back role - Scirea as a sweeper - Colovatti/Cuccureddu - and Cabrini as an offensive full back/wing back. Offensively the team resembles the Zona Mista using Italy of 1982 - a World Cup where Paolo Rossi got the highest overall rating, won the Golden ball for best player and the Golden boot for being the top scorer.

Behind Rossi they had three great dribblers - one very narrow left winger in Graziani - who has been replaced by Sterling who is comfortable at providing width on the left side. On the other side, the great Bruno Conti has been replaced by one of the best pacey dribblers in history - Littbarski who is capable as an attacking midfielder and further out wide as a winger - and the attacking midfielder Antognoni has been replaced by a central midfielder with full freedom to attack - Gascoigne.

I've upgraded the individual skill of an historical defensive line. Cabrini has been adeptly replaced by his French version - Amoros the best offensively minded full-back in French History(second best overall after Thuram). He is known for his great pace and acceleration, passing range and crosses while on the ball and high tenacity and aggressiveness off the ball.

Next to him we find Amoros partner in crime for the French National Team, Le Grand Max, Maxime Bossis who was capable of playing in every position in the defensive line - while excelling primarily as a centre back or libero. He was so complete that even as a full back he's often mentioned to be included in the French All-Time eleven due to the great competition centrally.

As a player he was a combination of Scirea, never getting booked at all and having a great playmaking ability and composure on the ball, and Bergomi in the way he was extremely all rounded which allowed him to play all five defensive positions(last one being libero) to such a high level.

In front of them we have an extremely complementary midfield trio of Cocu-Gascoigne-Simeone. Defensively Gascoigne brings great aggressiveness, tackling and harrying which is complemented by Simeone and Cocu who are not only great in terms of working hard - but also intelligent and combines it with great positional and interception skills. In the front I have Paolo Rossi, also known for his ability to press his opponent and force mistakes out of defenders - and made it a habit to score goals right after intercepting a pass or winning the ball back himself.

Both Littbarski and Sterling can press well from their positions and will also help out in the total team effort defending.

One of the greatest defensive lines in history has replaced and improved its weakest player Colovatti with Bossis who is one of the better CB-FB's in history. In front of it is a swarm of players who will do their harrying job extremely well and any loose ball will be snapped up by one of the lethal counter-attackers in Rossi, Littbarski, Gascoigne or Sterling. Or the ball will be won deeper where the playmaking of Scirea, Cocu, Bossis and Amoros will allow the team to quickly find one of the counter-attacking quartet with as few touches as possible.

There is a great mix of extremely intelligent players like Scirea, Bossis, Cocu(and Simeone) mixed in with the hard work and aggressive press of the rest.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Game On!

All the best to both managers.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Not too sure about tRV's tactics here, why does he need to play counter attacking football when he has Scholes and Rui Costa against a 5 men defense? Surely he will dominate possession when Annah will try to hit with the counter attacks..

 

[The Red Viper]

Not too sure about tRV's tactics here, why does he need to play counter attacking football when he has Scholes and Rui Costa against a 5 men defense? Surely he will dominate possession when Annah will try to hit with the counter attacks..

My CBs aren't exactly the quickest. That is why I need to play a deep backline. Obviously, I can play possession based football with a deep backline but it won't be as effective. And, both Scholes and Rui Costa relished in a counter attacking style of football. Scholes was a key part of initiating the counters from deep at United while Rui in his Fiorentina days was quite a direct player. He wasn't as explosive as lets say a Kaka, but he had great close control which helped him to get out of tight spaces and then release that final ball for Batigol and Edmundo/Chiesa at Fiorentina or Pippo and Sheva at Milan. Both him and Scholes have have the attributes to do well in either possession based football or counter-attacking football.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Claudio Gentile is, without a doubt, one of the toughest defenders to grace Italian football throughout the 1970s and 1980s. Nicknamed ‘Qaddafi’ - since he was born in Libya - Gentile was a hard, uncompromising man. Several famous attackers during that era have fallen prey to his ruthless defending style, which was anything but gentle.

After playing two years of his senior career with Serie B sides, his talent was spotted by Juventus scouts and was subsequently brought to Turin. Initially, Gentile was assigned the position of mediano, and was used as an alternative to the legendary Giuseppe Furino. The first year was not an excellent one as Gentile could not adapt easily to the new role and the competition in defense was intense. Giovanni Trappatoni took over the reins of the Old Lady in 1976 and was convinced of Gentile’s abilities right away. Trap employed Gentile in the left-back position in spite of him being naturally right-footed. Gentile had no problem adapting as he became adept with his left foot as well. Few years later, Antonio Cabrini was introduced into the Juventus squad. Cabrini took over the left-back spot and Gentile slotted into the right-back position with utmost ease. In those days, full-backs did not assume much attacking duties and used to mark the players entering their zone. Even then, Gentile would sometimes venture forward to successfully take part in attack. He played in that position for several years before shifting to center-back position where he truly shone.

During the years that Gentile played, Italian football was undergoing a slight transformation. The zonal defense system was being introduced along with the man-marking system that characterized Catenaccio. Gentile was adept at both systems, but was feared for his man-marking skills. In fact, Gentile was a Coach’s delight. He always did the job that he was asked of meticulously and very often, his job was to mark an opposition player. Gentile would then study the player beforehand and come up with a strategy to neutralize him in the game. He was noted for his hard tackles directed at the ball. He is said to pioneer the technique of kicking the ball from between opponent’s legs, leaving them bruised, battered and frustrated. Gentile followed his opponent like a shadow, remaining very close to him throughout the game. He used to go in for a tackle as the forward was about to receive a pass, dispossessing even before completing the pass and never letting the opponent play. As English footballer Gordon Hill once put: “Claudio Gentile would stand on his grandmother's head to get the ball.” Gentile knew the importance of mental aspects of the game and often got on the nerves of the player he was marking. During set-plays, he was not afraid of committing niggling fouls on the opposition to unsettle them.


Gentile’s defensive performances were on showcase in the 1982 World Cup. Along with the elegant Gaetano Scirea, he forged a contrasting defensive partnership which went down in history as one of the best ever. In the second round of matches, Gentile was assigned the unenviable task of marking the emerging Argentine star Diego Maradona. Gentile studied Maradona for two days, watching videos of his play and concluded that the Argentine needed to be so well marked that he does not get any time on ball. During the match, Gentile produced a number of violent tackles on Maradona on and off the ball, committing a record 23 fouls on him alone. Maradona was denied the right to play and was visibly frustrated towards the end of the game. Just minutes before the kick-off against Brazil, Coach Enzo Bearzot told Gentile to mark the dangerous Zico out of the game. Gentile was never further than a meter from Zico and dished out the same punishment to him. After getting a booking for a violent tackle on Zico, he ripped the Brazilian’s shirt in pieces during a tussle. In the final against Germany, Gentile not only marked the dangerous Pierre Littbarski, but also provided the cross that led to Italy’s first goal.


Gentile was widely criticised for his style of play and many have branded his on-the-pitch behavior as unsporting. However, according to Gentile, he was simply a hard tackler. In fact, he stressed the importance of not committing nasty fouls so as to avoid sending off. In his entire career, Gentile was never sent off for a hard tackle on the pitch. Gentile’s retort to Maradona’s complaints after their 1982 tussle sums up the image of the fearsome defender: “Football is not for ballerinas.”

 

[Annahnomoss]

Gentile is better than any full back Robben has even been up against. Gentile is out of a purely defensive perspective maybe the best full back about and here he is in a situation he thrived in - up against a difficult opponent - having to use his ability to outdo Robben. It took a legendary defensive job to handle the two legends of Maradona and Zico so Robben should be a match up he'd adore - and one Robben would hate.

The most frustrating thing is that Scirea works my defensive line as a sweeper/libero, a job he was the best in history at, meaning Gentile has the best possible support as well.

Often referred to as a quiet leader, Gaetano Scirea was infamous for his elegant play, his calming manner and his human touch. As our Andrea Tallarita put it, Scirea was: “A defender whose strong technical attributes were coupled with a highly ductile tactical disposition.” Alongside Claudio Gentile, the duo created history for both Juventus and the Nazionale.

Cantenaccio was propelled into infamy by Helenio Herrera of Inter in the 1960’s, the Serie A squad that was making history at the time. By the time it had reached the 1970s, the tactic had evolved to include a libero. Franz Beckenbauer may have been the man to introduce the role of sweeper, or ‘libero’ in Italian but it was Scirea who transformed the position into an art form. Scirea’s prime role was essentially a free one whereby he would roam at the back to recoup any loose balls, nullify the opponent’s striker, double-mark whenever necessary and most interestingly - initiate attacks. Notorious for his ability to redress the attack and to deliver valuable assists, he was simply a rare type of defender that was as much a threat in attack as he was in closing down opponents. His capability of delivering the perfect pass and his enjoyment at running down the wings allowed him to evolve the role so that it acted as the first line of offence. He had plenty of competition, but his vision and ability to dictate the tempo made him a complete footballer.


Starting his career at Atalanta as a forward and then a winger, Gaetano had a tough two years and was not able to score the amount of goals he had hoped. He even featured for the Nerazzurri in the number 10 shirt before Coach Heriberto Herrera believed he was born to be a sweeper. It was alleged Juventus agreed and it was Čestmír Vycpálek, Juventus’ then Coach that requested Scirea be bought to form the last part of his astounding Bianconeri defence. With Sandro Salvadore, the legendary sweeper on his way to retirement, the Old Lady was in search of a replacement that would fill the void and Gaetano was about to move to a club with which he would remain for the rest of his career. When asked later on about his feelings of being asked to be Dino Zoff’s deputy Coach to Juventus in 1988, Scirea replied: “What a thrill: I was awake all night, as in 1974, when Atalanta told me that I would go to Juve.”


At the ripe old age of 21, Juventus’ Coach, Carlo Parola decided to try the youngster in the heart of defence alongside Francesco Morini. Scirea with his nimble and elegant style of play, almost tip-toed his way around the pitch alongside the tough and gritty no-nonsense defender Morini - the two complemented each other beautifully. With Giovanni Trapattoni on his way as the Old Lady’s new Coach, history was made and Scirea went on to win every possible trophy with that legendary squad. Such was his devotion to the team that it was alleged that after having injured himself, Scirea continued to play by using only his left foot to kick the ball according to Giuseppe Furino in an interview he conducted with Goal.com.


The Italian game eventually evolved to create la Zona Mista whereby the defenders would mix zonal marking with man-marking. The Azzurri team won the 1982 World Cup by deploying this very method of play. In this tactic, four defenders were deployed, two centre-backs, a sweeper behind them and a full-back usually positioned on the left flank. Despite the heroics of Paolo Rossi, it was Scirea who was regarded as the tournament’s most dependable player.


As age took a toll on his attacking prowess, Scirea retained a more defensive role in central defence which he excelled at just the same. Yet despite his extraordinary skill as a footballer, Scirea was perhaps even more celebrated for his human qualities and gentleman-like persona. His tragic and untimely death restricted the world from a true legend and a gentle soul that no longer exists in the modern game. He has the honour of being remembered as a player that never received a red card and a defender that scored an unbelievably high number of goals for his beloved Juventus. The Curva will always carry the name of the legendary Juve Captain and the country will forever continue to mourn his loss.


“A gentleman, a great opponent. His death gave me a lot, a lot of pain.” - Diego Maradona.

 

[Annahnomoss]

The great Jean Tigana on Amoros and Bossis when including them in his favorite XI;


"Centre-back - Maxime Bossis

He could play with both his feet and he could play everywhere. He was always good. I only saw him play one bad game. He was incredible. I played many bad games but he always played to 100 per cent.

Left-back - Manuel Amoros(but equally comfortable at right)

He was very attacking. He was clever, quick, had a good cross and always wanted to push forward and press high. Now many players do that but in the past not many pressed high.

 

[antohan]

Gentile against Robben is a disaster waiting to happen. There's no chance he would get away with his usual antics in this day and age, and Robben has far more pace than Maradona or Zico. They also tried to stay on their feet when grabbed and kicked, which Robben won't.

I would have started with Bossis-Scirea-Gentile-Amoros myself.

At the other end, I can't see TRV sitting deep and hitting back. I understand his rationale regarding the high defensive line but would rather take some risks (Stam wasn't slow at all once he got going) than sit back with Rafael and Sergi on the flanks.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I think that my team are perfectly suited for a counter-attacking set up. The Zona Mista which I am using was a counter-attacking tactic where a great defense was used to soak up pressure and as soon as you won the ball you had defenders like Scirea who had a great passing range - who could find your attackers in an instant. Bossis is also in this mold, brilliant ability on the ball and capable of starting counter attacks from the deep.

Gascoigne, Littbarski and Sterling are handpicked for a back and forth/counter attacking game. Gascoigne is here playing in his WC 1990 role, but with more defensive cover, which allows him to bombard forward with the use of his pace and dribbling. All my attackers will be looking to create chances as soon as possible and will prefer long shots from just outside the box after trying to gain enough space for it with their dribbling.

The right side with Littbarski and Amoros will be the primary outlet as they are my best attackers and Paolo Rossi was an incredible goal-scorer in the box for crosses or rebounds - similar to Ruud van Nistelrooy.

I also have the better midfield defensively with my three central midfielder where Simeone and Cocu are great defensively and Gascoigne adds aggressiveness and pressing. Littbarski and Rossi were also great off the ball and Sterling is doing his defensive duties for Liverpool as well.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Gentile against Robben is a disaster waiting to happen. There's no chance he would get away with his usual antics in this day and age, and Robben has far more pace than Maradona or Zico. They also tried to stay on their feet when grabbed and kicked, which Robben won't.

I would have started with Bossis-Scirea-Gentile-Amoros myself.

At the other end, I can't see TRV sitting deep and hitting back. I understand his rationale regarding the high defensive line but would rather take some risks (Stam wasn't slow at all once he got going) than sit back with Rafael and Sergi on the flanks.

The rules has changed, we shouldn't judge Gentile for how he'd do in the modern rules. Chances are that no defenders would handle the offside rule conversions etc in that case. We could just as well do the same thing and reach the opposite conclusion "Robben wouldn't handle the physical Gentile who'd hack him down repeatedly while never get sent off".

Gentile also has Scirea next to him, and Cocu and Sterling on that left side. The Zona Mista is a very low defense, very similar to the catenaccio. If Robben beats him on the outside, he'd on his way to the corner flag - if he beats him on the inside he's running straight into Scirea's speciality.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Gentile also faced Littbarski in the 82 final, who is extremely pacey, got great acceleration and is a similar dribbler to Robben. Gentile faced Littbarski, supported by Matthaus and Briegel and they failed to score while Italy scored 3. Italy won with 3-1 as Breitnigge managed to score one goal from the other side.

This Italian team was incredibly strong defensively, and just having pace and dribbling skills was something they faced on the regular.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I'm not sure about the Scholes/Rui Costa duo. Think TRV is playing Scholes in his later years where he operated deeper. I'm assuming Dunga will have the bulk of the defensive duties with Scholes trying to control the game from the middle...which I think will overlap Rui Costa's role to a extent.

 

[antohan]

The rules has changed, we shouldn't judge Gentile for how he'd do in the modern rules. Chances are that no defenders would handle the offside rule conversions etc in that case. We could just as well do the same thing and reach the opposite conclusion "Robben wouldn't handle the physical Gentile who'd hack him down repeatedly while never get sent off".

The rules haven't changed. In fact, everyone would agree Gentile got away with murder. The difference is back then players tried their best to stay on their feet and carry on. Robben won't, he'll take the foul, no probs, repeatedly.

You are also missing the point of how Gentile's role worked, he was a spare man tasked with a man-marking job. He went around hounding Zico/Maradona who moved across the forntline. IF beaten, then there was a second line of defence. It's not how Robben will operate.

Re: Littbarski and Germany, they had a five-man backline then, not four like you do.

Bossis would be a much better option to deal with Robben, and Scirea covering pretty much rules him out as a problem. Gentile? I can see free kicks, plenty of them, possibly even a peno. Completely unnecessary.

 

[The Red Viper]

I'm not sure about the Scholes/Rui Costa duo. Think TRV is playing Scholes in his later years where he operated deeper. I'm assuming Dunga will have the bulk of the defensive duties with Scholes trying to control the game from the middle...which I think will overlap Rui Costa's role to a extent.

Not really. Rui was a trequartista. While he was comfortable at dropping deep and providing throughballs from deep, what made him the player he was was his combination with Batigol. The link-up play followed by an exquisite pass to release Chiesa/Edmundo and Batigol. If I had someone like a Xavi or Veron or Gerson, I would have agreed since the later three liked to control the tempo of the game as well and there was a chance of them stepping on Scholes' shoes. But with someone like Rui Costa, I don't see that issue.

 

[The Red Viper]

The rules haven't changed. In fact, everyone would agree Gentile got away with murder. The difference is back then players tried their best to stay on their feet and carry on. Robben won't, he'll take the foul, no probs, repeatedly.

You are also missing the point of how Gentile's role worked, he was a spare man tasked with a man-marking job. He went around hounding Zico/Maradona who moved across the forntline. IF beaten, then there was a second line of defence. It's not how Robben will operate.

Re: Littbarski and Germany, they had a five-man backline then, not four like you do.

Bossis would be a much better option to deal with Robben, and Scirea covering pretty much rules him out as a problem. Gentile? I can see free kicks, plenty of them, possibly even a peno. Completely unnecessary.

Also, Littbarski was quite young then. He hadn't really matured properly as a player then. His peak came around mid and late eighties.

 

[Annahnomoss]

The rules haven't changed. In fact, everyone would agree Gentile got away with murder. The difference is back then players tried their best to stay on their feet and carry on. Robben won't, he'll take the foul, no probs, repeatedly.

You are also missing the point of how Gentile's role worked, he was a spare man tasked with a man-marking job. He went around hounding Zico/Maradona who moved across the forntline. IF beaten, then there was a second line of defence. It's not how Robben will operate.

Re: Littbarski and Germany, they had a five-man backline then, not four like you do.

Bossis would be a much better option to deal with Robben, and Scirea covering pretty much rules him out as a problem. Gentile? I can see free kicks, plenty of them, possibly even a peno. Completely unnecessary.

They handled Lato, Kempes, the Brazil of '82, Maradona of '82, Platini's France of '82 and '78, Rummenigge in '78 and '82, Littbarski in '82, Conti repeatedly in the league. While keeping a record low amount of conceded goals per game and clean sheet.

Gentile didn't play that role very often by the way, it was a special role used against special opponents like Maradona - against Zico Italy played with a 4 man line with Gentile included in it. He's not here to man mark Robben out of the game - the Zona Mista was a mix of man marking and zonal marking and if Robben is in his zone he'll be marked.

Rummenigge had one great game against Juventus in the league in three seasons scoring 2 in that game - in the other 5 he scored 0. Noted should be that Gentile had already left Juventus so their defensive line was severely weakened as he was "replaced" with Favero. Scirea was also aging at this time. The system makes it very difficult for great dribblers as it has a very deep defense and an in general very defensive set up with a lot of protection and cover.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

I don't like RV's tactics at all. the fact that you want to play a low defensive line, and with Annah's classic counter attacking built team it will mean RV will have possession most of the time, resulting a push forward from his midfielders therefore there will be a huge gap between his midfield line and his defensive line, exactly for Sterling-Libbrtaski-Rossi to exploit, because you can't dominate possession and keep a low defensive line, it just doesn't work that way.
Voted for Annah. I just don't think you can have it both ways, it's like saying I'll play deep sitting counter attacking football without having to withstand pressure from my opponent.
RV I actually see your point regarding Scholes-Costa, although I still think they will dominate possession against most sides, but against Annah's team you can't gamble on your counter attacks. Naturally, in a football match you'll have a couple of them but that can't be your main route to goal against a team like Annah. Would've worked great against most teams though because you have better players, just got the wrong tactics with a bad draw for you imo

 

[crappycraperson]

Very tough one. I don't see any issue with Red Viper's MF. Dunga-Scholes is pretty much a better version of Carrick-Scholes.

 

[RoadTrip]

I really like TRV's team.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Very tough one. I don't see any issue with Red Viper's MF. Dunga-Scholes is pretty much a better version of Carrick-Scholes.

The issue isn't with his midfield, it's with the concept that this midfield, which has both Scholes and Rui Costa at their prime won't dominate possession against a team like Annah's who quite obviously plans to sit deep and counter

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

I really like TRV's team.

Well me too, didn't think Annah would stand a chance here, but RV just went for the wrong tactical plan here

 

[Annahnomoss]

My team are specifically told to look for the chance as well. If Gazza/Littbarski/Rossi/Sterling has the ball outside the box they'll challenge for a dribble - try to earn themselves a step on the defender - then go for a long shot which hopefully goes in or the poacher Rossi gets on the rebound. If he wants to play direct football with me it'd be two teams just going back and forth, a game played at an extremely high pace which suits me perfectly because that is what Zona Mista was.

I have one full back less than my opponent, Gentile is purely on a defensive mission. So when I attack it will almost always be too direct for my entire team to push up. I'm playing a very low line.

 

[antohan]

They handled Lato, Kempes, the Brazil of '82, Maradona of '82, Platini's France of '82 and '78, Rummenigge in '78 and '82, Littbarski in '82, Conti repeatedly in the league. While keeping a record low amount of conceded goals per game and clean sheet.

Gentile didn't play that role very often by the way, it was a special role used against special opponents like Maradona - against Zico Italy played with a 4 man line with Gentile included in it. He's not here to man mark Robben out of the game - the Zona Mista was a mix of man marking and zonal marking and if Robben is in his zone he'll be marked.

Rummenigge had one great game against Juventus in the league in three seasons scoring 2 in that game - in the other 5 he scored 0. Noted should be that Gentile had already left Juventus so their defensive line was severely weakened as he was "replaced" with Favero. Scirea was also aging at this time. The system makes it very difficult for great dribblers as it has a very deep defense and an in general very defensive set up with a lot of protection and cover.

Annah, you are missing the point here. You DO have a great set of defenders, that's not what I'm questioning here. The point is the only logic in putting Gentile there on the left is man-marking Robben and what I'm saying is he is the wrong chap to do it. Even more so if it is NOT a personal detail (which I agree it shouldn't be). Bossis will deal with him far more comfortably and you lose nothing swapping them around, it's all upside.

 

[harms]

I do think that Viper's team is better individually, but Annah's system would work better. I thought so even before the match though, nothing changed - Scholes + Robben + Eto'O would've been devastating in a counter-attacking system, but if you want Costa to accompany them, you need Makelele there, not Dunga.

Annah is playing the system that brings the best out of his best players, and this should count.

Won't vote yet as it's very close, I need a night to think about it. The most likely result would've been 0:0.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

I do think that Viper's team is better individually, but Annah's system would work better. I thought so even before the match though, nothing changed - Scholes + Robben + Eto'O would've been devastating in a counter-attacking system, but if you want Costa to accompany them, you need Makelele there, not Dunga.

Annah is playing the system that brings the best out of his best players, and this should count.

Won't vote yet as it's very close, I need a night to think about it. The most likely result would've been 0:0.

Completely agree with that. I just decided to give Annah the vote for playing the right tactically, as I think that should give him more chance of stealing that 1:0 win

 

[Raees]

Tough call this, one team has better individuals and is in a system which plays to all players strengths.. for me Costa/Scholes overlap slightly, but teams with two playmakers that intelligent can definitely adapt, especially both at their peaks - Rui is also definitely more of a trequartista in my opinion.

I just don't see enough goal threat in Annah's team.. Sterling for me is still learning how to be more of a go to player on the big occasions, Littebarski.. was a creater more than a goalscoring wideman in his own right and Paulo Rossi v Stam/Vidic.. I'd back the defenders. Gascoigne v Dunga - very good match up, could go either way but overall a Robben/Eto'o combo supported by that level of creativity and a defence which should be able to deal with the opponent's attacking threat.. for me it has to be Red Viper.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Annah, you are missing the point here. You DO have a great set of defenders, that's not what I'm questioning here. The point is the only logic in putting Gentile there on the left is man-marking Robben and what I'm saying is he is the wrong chap to do it. Even more so if it is NOT a personal detail (which I agree it shouldn't be). Bossis will deal with him far more comfortably and you lose nothing swapping them around, it's all upside.

Gentile never got a red card in his career. He was the master of committing small nagging fouls which went unnoticed by the referee and when he did put in tackles, first of all he made it hurt - being known to kick through the ball to commit injuries on the opponents in 50-50 chances - second of all he wasn't tactically retarded, committing free kicks in dangerous areas.

One of the best man markers in history wouldn't have been nothing at all if he constantly pulled down opponents just outside the box. What he did was commit the foul just as you got the ball. To avoid this you had one option, run towards your own half - break free of the mark as he would only follow you thus far - then either turn around or pass your opponents. Either way that is a counter-attack completely jammed up, as you want to be running towards the opponents goals on a counter not your own.

Players like Buttner has done well against Robben, to assume that Gentile would be incapable is completely idiotic to say the least. Robben is a huge threat, that is why I put one of the best defensive full-backs in history up against him on that flank - partnered by Scirea. He's not immortal, surpassing the likes of Platini, Maradona, Rummenigge, Littbarski, Zico, Lato by a mile. All players that this defensive set up with Scirea and Gentile thrived and made their names against.

You are claiming that one of the best defenses in history would have trembled completely by a good dribbler falling easily? Plenty of players fell easy back then too, and diving wasn't invented in 2004.

 

[crappycraperson]

Tough call this, one team has better individuals and is in a system which plays to all players strengths.. for me Costa/Scholes overlap slightly, but teams with two playmakers that intelligent can definitely adapt, especially both at their peaks - Rui is also definitely more of a trequartista in my opinion.

I just don't see enough goal threat in Annah's team.. Sterling for me is still learning how to be more of a go to player on the big occasions, Littebarski.. was a creater more than a goalscoring wideman in his own right and Paulo Rossi v Stam/Vidic.. I'd back the defenders. Gascoigne v Dunga - very good match up, could go either way but overall a Robben/Eto'o combo supported by that level of creativity and a defence which should be able to deal with the opponent's attacking threat.. for me it has to be Red Viper.

Agree with most of this.. except for me Annah's defense is actually good enough to shut out Viper. So it looks like a 0-0 to me.. mmmm

 

[Annahnomoss]

Tough call this, one team has better individuals and is in a system which plays to all players strengths.. for me Costa/Scholes overlap slightly, but teams with two playmakers that intelligent can definitely adapt, especially both at their peaks - Rui is also definitely more of a trequartista in my opinion.

I just don't see enough goal threat in Annah's team.. Sterling for me is still learning how to be more of a go to player on the big occasions, Littebarski.. was a creater more than a goalscoring wideman in his own right and Paulo Rossi v Stam/Vidic.. I'd back the defenders. Gascoigne v Dunga - very good match up, could go either way but overall a Robben/Eto'o combo supported by that level of creativity and a defence which should be able to deal with the opponent's attacking threat.. for me it has to be Red Viper.

Littbarski is a huge goal scoring threat mate. He has scored more goals in one league season than Robben ever did in fact.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

I just wouldn't want to judge a match result based on how well Robben dives.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Gascoigne is also a goal scoring threat himself, he bagged in 19 goals on his own in 90-91 for Tottenham and was very often near the 10 goals a season mark. To put that in to perspective it is similar to Giggs goal scoring average from 92-02.

 

[Skizzo]

while TRV might edge the individual quality in the attacking third, Annah has the clear edge in defence, plus a system which suits his players. Think that might be a solid enough foundation to be able to hold out and squeak a narrow victory.

 

[antohan]

Gentile never got a red card in his career. He was the master of committing small nagging fouls which went unnoticed by the referee and when he did put in tackles, first of all he made it hurt - being known to kick through the ball to commit injuries on the opponents in 50-50 chances - second of all he wasn't tactically retarded, committing free kicks in dangerous areas.

One of the best man markers in history wouldn't have been nothing at all if he constantly pulled down opponents just outside the box. What he did was commit the foul just as you got the ball. To avoid this you had one option, run towards your own half - break free of the mark as he would only follow you thus far - then either turn around or pass your opponents. Either way that is a counter-attack completely jammed up, as you want to be running towards the opponents goals on a counter not your own.

Players like Buttner has done well against Robben, to assume that Gentile would be incapable is completely idiotic to say the least. Robben is a huge threat, that is why I put one of the best defensive full-backs in history up against him on that flank - partnered by Scirea. He's not immortal, surpassing the likes of Platini, Maradona, Rummenigge, Littbarski, Zico, Lato by a mile. All players that this defensive set up with Scirea and Gentile thrived and made their names against.

You are claiming that one of the best defenses in history would have trembled completely by a good dribbler falling easily? Plenty of players fell easy back then too, and diving wasn't invented in 2004.

Yadda yadda. You keep name-dropping players who don't play like Robben. The only one who did there was Lato and Gentile never had to deal with him.

It's not like Robben is superhuman anyway, but there's a clear issue there as a result of a distinct pace differential. You mention Gentile will stick to him, track him, molest him before he gets the ball... but also that he won't commit fouls close to the box, which means that presumably he does far away from the box (surely?)... then all Rui Costa needs to do is play the ball behind Gentile's back. ZOOM! Gone.

I'm not asking you to play some nobody, Bossis was a cracking player while also considerably quicker than Gentile. If you needed his distribution in the centre of defence I'd buy the trade off, but Scirea is there as well. As said, unnecessary exposure.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Should be added that Sterling also got nearly 10 goals last season(9) in the league alone and this year he already got 3 goals in 4 matches so he seems to be breaking that this year. That is a sum Ryan Giggs topped twice in the league in his life time, a third he drew it.

So Sterling was as much of a goal threat last season as Giggs in his third best season ever, talking about the league.

He's up against Rafael, so he won't be useless in this game - both the "youth players" we had to play - up against each other.

So I have Gascoigne and Sterling who are fully capable goal scorers - who are capable of creating chances on their own and finishing them off. Then I have Littbarski who is a brilliant goal scoring winger, and Rossi up front.

 

[antohan]

I just wouldn't want to judge a match result based on how well Robben dives.

Errr... He won't need to, Gentile did stick his boot in, quite a lot.

I'm not judging the game entirely on that though. It's just a point which doesn't sit right with me at all when the solution is staring you in the face.

 

[sun_tzu]

This is where sometimes it becomes hard to judge because under modern offside rules with modern refs interpretation of fouls I think Robben would run riot.

But back in gentiles prime he would have legitimately kicked him to bits and taken him out of the game

 

[antohan]

So Sterling was as much of a goal threat last season as Giggs in his third best season ever, talking about the league.

He's up against Rafael, so he won't be useless in this game - both the "youth players" we had to play - up against each other.

You are clearly overrating Sterling with the Giggs comparison (there's always a favourable comparison for everything and everyone, isn't there?). Still, you do have a very good point that the meh Sterling is facing the meh Rafael, who is far more likely to feck up than anyone else on the pitch, as evidenced this weekend

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned much.

 

[Raees]

Littbarski is a huge goal scoring threat mate. He has scored more goals in one league season than Robben ever did in fact.

You're right in that he is a goal-scoring threat in his own right.. but Robben misses alot of chances, he's so direct. Littebarski is one of my favourite players and he has scored goals in big games at International level, so assuming I still agree to your argument.. I still feel vipers attack has players who have dominated in all forms of football and consistently scored. Eto'o v Rossi.. only one winner for me personally.

Robben

09/10 - 37 games, 23 goals
11/12 - 36 games, 19 goals

Litterbarski

82-83 33 games, 17 goals
84-85 28 games, 16 goals

Your defence is beastly - I admit, in reality probably would be 0-0.. as that defence in addition to Cocu-Simeone protecting it is ridiculously solid, probably the best defence in the draft in all honesty. I just went for the team that was better balanced across defence, midfield and attack in my opinion. I prefer his attack, midfield - two different styles... his is more flamboyant, yours is more aggressive... but I think you are missing a play-making centre mid alongside Simeone.. i.e. a Scholes type player. Defence - I prefer yours. His keeper is better.. so on balance, I'd still have to pick Viper.

 

[Annahnomoss]

This is a deep defense. If Robben beats Gentile on the outside he's by the corner flag already and that is where you want a player like Robben. If he cuts in like he loves to do he has to first beat Gentile, which will be incredibly difficult on its own and no current full backs are close to the defensive level of Gentile, not even Lahm - then he has to face Scirea who is one of the best, if not the best, sweeper in history.

If Buttner can make it difficult for Robben, Gentile and Scirea can at least keep him sweating a bit one would think. This is not Gentile VS Robben on the side in a sprinting race. I'm playing a deep defensive line and Scirea will be helping out Gentile.

 

[Gio]

Both central defences look unbalanced. Annah effectively has two sweepers, Red Viper two hard cnuts. I'd quite like to see Bossis on the left as there's nothing happening down that flank as it stands - which is a missed opportunity with Rafael there to potentially expose.