The Reality Draft - QF: Jayvin vs The Red Viper

Who will win with players at their peaks?

  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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.......................................... Team @Jayvin ................................................................... Team @The Red Viper ........................


TEAM JAYVIN


OVERVIEW:

An impenetrable backline and a midfield that blends work rate, defensive strength and tidy passing gives my attacking players the perfect platform to shine; with the pace and trickery of Overmars and Figo stretching the play and creating space for Romario.

The team will play a 4-2-3-1 formation with Boban coming into the side for Mendieta. Boban's selflessness and work rate is the perfect foil for Romario, as well as having the added benefit of another body in the attacking third to occupy Dunga, with the overall aim to limit the Brazilians ability to cover for Sergi on the left flank.

The midfielders will sit deep, shielding the back four with Deschamps doing his best to limit the effectiveness of Scholes and tracking his runs into the penalty area, while Alonso's impeccable positioning and interceptions will help in winning the ball back.

Attacks will mostly be targeted down the flanks, where my team will look to create 1v1 opportunities against TRV's fullbacks. Boban's role is key in this; when in possession he will attempt to draw Dunga towards him and away from TRVs left flank before passing it wide for Figo to run at Sergi.

The exceptional long passing of Alonso also gives my team the option of picking out the wingers early, attempting to catch both Dunga and TRV's fullbacks offguard.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

TEAM THE RED VIPER

THE TEAM

We will play a 4-2-3-1 formation. Oliver Kahn is the goalkeeper. Willy Sagnol and Sergi Barjuán would be the full-backs while Nemanja Vidić and Jaap Stam would be the centre-backs. The midfield comprises of a three man midfield of Dunga, Paul Scholes and Bastian Schweinsteiger. Dunga would be the defensive minded midfielder who would look to break the plays and win back the possession for us. Bastian Schweinsteiger would play as the central midfielder while Paul Scholes would play as an advanced midfielder/attacking midfielder in a three man central midfield.

The attacking triumvirate comprises of Thierry Henry, Samuel Eto'o and Arjen Robben. Samuel Eto'o would lead the lines and look to play on the shoulders of the last defender. Arjen Robben would play as a right wing forward in a free role. It would be similar to the role he plays at Bayern Munich where he takes on his man by isolating him in one-on-one situations. Thierry Henry would play off Samuel Eto'o as the left sided second striker. A role, similar to what he played under Pep Guardiola's Barcelona but here, he would have more freedom since he is the main man in attack. Throughout his career, he loved drifting out wide on the left and then attacking that space between the right back and right centre back. Here, he would do the same as well. Most of his trademark goals, especially the ones from the counters have usually come from that flank.


THE TACTICS​

Jayvin's front three have got a lot of pace in them. In order to negate that speed of Marc Overmars, Luís Figo and Romario, we would sit back deep and hit them on counters. Sergi Barjuán has the pace to keep up with Luís Figo but he would require help to restrict Luís Figo's influence and that is where, Bastian Schweinsteiger would help him out by doubling up on Figo whenever he has the ball. I know that, by sitting deep, we are inviting Jayvin's team, especially Luís Figo and Bixente Lizarazu to attack us with crosses. But, in Nemanja Vidić and Jaap Stam, there are two towers at the back who were brilliant aerially. So, I am confident, we can deal with the crosses. Dunga has played with Romario for plenty of years. He has trained with him and knows the movement pattern of Romario. His role would be ensure that he plugs those spaces or routes to where Romario likes to receive the ball. He would look to cut the supply for Romario and make him drop deeper to get into the game. Xabi Alonso is the most creative player in the team. Didier Deschamps wasn't rubbish on the ball, but he wasn't someone who known for creating from deep or controlling the tempo of the game. Whenever Xabi Alonso has the ball, Paul Scholes would look to press him. Paul Scholes may not have been a great tackler but he was good at pressing. Even if he doesn't win the ball back, he would ensure Xabi Alonso doesn't get much time and space on the ball, thereby making Jayvin's transition from defence to attack slower.

On the other end of the pitch, Paul Scholes and Bastian Schweinsteiger are key to initiating the counter-attacks from the back. Both have fantastic range of passing. Thierry Henry's attack that space between William Gallas and Marcel Desailly, and look to drag Marcel Desailly out of his position so that it leaves Laurent Blanc isolated. Laurent Blanc was a very good cultured defender but he was quite slow. Considering the speed-demons that Arjen Robben and Samuel Eto'o are, both would look to exploit that in one one one conditions.
 
Both team look brilliant, real confusion is whom to vote.
 
Leaning towards the Viper after that great tactical summary. Winning the tactical part right now by walk over pretty much as Jayvin hasn't mentioned much about how he would play.
 
@The Red Viper love that front 6.. stunning and Jayvin's is really well balanced too. I don't like Vipers defence as much as Jays considering who they're up against though.. both abit brawny, once Romario gets it to feet.. he can destroy even the most elegant of defenders. Figo v Sagnol.. I back Luis. Tough match up to call.
 
I don't think either set of defenders are going to enjoy what they're up against. Goals on the cards.
 
Raees said:
@The Red Viper love that front 6.. stunning and Jayvin's is really well balanced too. I don't like Vipers defence as much as Jays considering who they're up against though.. both abit brawny, once Romario gets it to feet.. he can destroy even the most elegant of defenders. Figo v Sagnol.. I back Luis. Tough match up to call.
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Figo is up against Sergi mate.

''Sergi Barjuán has the pace to keep up with Luís Figo but he would require help to restrict Luís Figo's influence and that is where, Bastian Schweinsteiger would help him out by doubling up on Figo whenever he has the ball''

His deep defense and the man-marking skills of both his brawny defenders can limit Romario's influence to a certain extent imo. My only gripe is Dunga here, I think a more creative deep midfielder would have been apt esp with 2 not so great passing central defensive pairing. I know Dunga has a good passing range but I think someone more creative like Alonso/Guardiola would have been more apt. Or perhaps a more ball-playing CB in the mould of Blanc as two stoppers kind of seems like an overkill. However, he has Schweinsteiger whose passing is underrated and Paul feckin Scholes who can drop deep to get on the ball if his team are struggling with building up possession from the back whenever necessary.
 
Raees said:
@The Red Viper love that front 6.. stunning and Jayvin's is really well balanced too. I don't like Vipers defence as much as Jays considering who they're up against though.. both abit brawny, once Romario gets it to feet.. he can destroy even the most elegant of defenders. Figo v Sagnol.. I back Luis. Tough match up to call.
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I agree about Vidic and Stam not being the ideal partners. Ideally, someone like Rio or Nesta would have been perfect but I don't think its a defence that can't work. Chelsea last season and ever since Carvalho left, usually had Terry and Cahill/Ivanovic in the centre of defence. Both of them were similar, yet they worked well because in order to restrict their lack of pace, they defended deep and had bodies ahead of them in midfield to cover for them. Like I mentioned in my tactics, the key is restricting that supply to Romario. The first mode to do that is ensuring that Jayvin's transition from back to front isn't quick. Like Kroos did against Xabi when Bayern faced them couple of seasons back or like how Gundogan did for Dortmund when they faced Real, I have Scholes pressing Xabi whenever he has the ball to make sure Xabi doesn't get much time and space on the ball to dictate the game. Coming to Figo against Sergi, one on one Figo wins. But then one on one, Figo wins against almost any full-back in the history of the game bar pobably Maldini, Facchetti, Nilton Santos and Breitner. I would have Bastian to support Sergi and have both of them double team on Figo. We are taking a risk by allowing Figo to drift out wide and provide aerial crosses but its a risk I am willing to take because I am banking on both my centre-backs in Stam and Vidic to win those crosses against Romario, who is the only one in that attack who is a decent header of the ball. Also, whenever and if Jayvin decides to have Lizarazu overlap regularly, Robben would take up that space on that flank and look to eploit that flank on the counters. Especially up against a relatively slow Blanc.
 
Joga Bonito said:
Figo is up against Sergi mate.

''Sergi Barjuán has the pace to keep up with Luís Figo but he would require help to restrict Luís Figo's influence and that is where, Bastian Schweinsteiger would help him out by doubling up on Figo whenever he has the ball''

His deep defense and the man-marking skills of both his brawny defenders can limit Romario's influence to a certain extent imo. My only gripe is Dunga here, I think a more creative deep midfielder would have been apt esp with 2 not so great passing central defensive pairing. I know Dunga has a good passing range but I think someone more creative like Alonso/Guardiola would have been more apt. Or perhaps a more ball-playing CB in the mould of Blanc as two stoppers kind of seems like an overkill. However, he has Schweinsteiger whose passing is underrated and Paul feckin Scholes who can drop deep to get on the ball if his team are struggling with building up possession from the back whenever necessary.
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Fair point about Dunga. I am not too sure about Pep in that role though. If I had Pep there, I would prefer someone like Keane or Vieira or Robson to play there ahead of him instead of Scholes as they would offer more defensive support. Xabi though would have worked.
 
I´d love to merge both sides. :lol:

Romario.
Henry - Scholes - Robben/Figo
Schweinsteiger - Alonso
Lizarazu - Vidic - Desailly - Sangnol
Buffon​

I think both teams would play fairly similar and both teams are well composed. For me that primarily about personal preference about the players. Tacticlly no team would have a significant advantage.
 
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TRV's offence is a bit narrow lacking any real width and Jayvin's 2 DM's are perfectly suited to cope up with that. On the other hand Jayvin's players have the capacity to stretch the defenders and with Romario being there, I see a goal or two. Leaning towards Jayvin atm.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
TRV's offence is a bit narrow lacking any real width and Jayvin's 2 DM's are perfectly suited to cope up with that. On the other hand Jayvin's players have the capacity to stretch the defenders and with Romario being there, I see a goal or two. Leaning towards Jayvin atm.
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Not denying that Jayvin's wide attackers would offer more width. Especially when he has Figo. But what would he do with that width, when Romario would be up against Vidic and Stam alone, for majority of those crosses?
 
Joga Bonito said:
Figo is up against Sergi mate.

''Sergi Barjuán has the pace to keep up with Luís Figo but he would require help to restrict Luís Figo's influence and that is where, Bastian Schweinsteiger would help him out by doubling up on Figo whenever he has the ball''

His deep defense and the man-marking skills of both his brawny defenders can limit Romario's influence to a certain extent imo. My only gripe is Dunga here, I think a more creative deep midfielder would have been apt esp with 2 not so great passing central defensive pairing. Or perhaps a more ball-playing CB in the mould of Blanc. However, he has Schweinsteiger whose passing is underrated and Paul feckin Scholes who can drop deep to get on the ball if his team are struggling with building up possession from the back whenever necessary.
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My bad. Sergi is very nippy, so any threat round the outside could potentially be dealt with.. but Figo is Figo - very hard player to keep quiet even for the best full-backs and I don't classify Sergi in that category. Schweinsteiger coming back to help out is a good strategy though and I'm confident that due to the lack of attacking threat from Jays midfield.. he can do that without being worried about anyone else.

I agree with the defenders influence bit, but Romario v Italy 94.. how he ran that defence ragged and didn't score I do not know - Baresi!!. I disagree about Dunga, I'm a big fan of his and Mascherano for example due to the plain fact I think their abilities on the ball are underrated due to their thuggish reputation. They're no Pep and Busquets.. but they have that bit about them where in the big games they play above themselves in that respect.. think Mascherano at this world cup where he was almost like a deep lying playmaker (got ball off defenders from deep positions and made the play). Dunga was technically solid under pressure, and put under pressure he could always make a pass forward. I think he has more than enough ability needed for that role based on his Brazil performances. He is also partnered with two brilliant midfielders, more all-round than Deschamps and Alonso.. and more gifted going forwards.

 
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Raees said:
My bad. Sergi is very nippy, so any threat round the outside could potentially be dealt with.. but Figo is Figo - very hard player to keep quiet even for the best full-backs and I don't classify Sergi in that category. Schweinsteiger coming back to help out is a good strategy though and I'm confident that due to the lack of attacking threat from Jays midfield.. he can do that without being worried about anyone else.

I agree with the defenders influence bit, but Romario v Italy 94.. how he ran that defence ragged and didn't score I do not know. I disagree about Dunga, I'm a big fan of his and Mascherano for example due to the plain fact I think their abilities on the ball are underrated due to their thuggish reputation. They're no Pep and Busquets.. but they have that bit about them where in the big games they play above themselves in that respect.. think Mascherano at this world cup where he was almost like a deep lying playmaker (got ball off defenders from deep positions and made the play). Dunga was technically solid under pressure, and put under pressure he could always make a pass forward. I think he has more than enough ability needed for that role based on his Brazil performances. He is also partnered with two brilliant midfielders, more all-round than Deschamps and Alonso.. and more gifted going forwards.

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Yep. A player like Dunga may not have the passing range of a Redondo or Pep or Xabi or Busquets, but he was very effective on the ball. He didn't hover over the ball too much. He was great at winning back the possession and then kept the ball moving. With Scholes and Bastian ahead of him, he anyway has two players with very good passing range and creativity. So, they would take care of the creative side of the game.
 
The Red Viper said:
Not denying that Jayvin's wide attackers would offer more width. Especially when he has Figo. But what would he do with that width, when Romario would be up against Vidic and Stam alone, for majority of those crosses?
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The thing is, I prefer Henry with a second striker behind him a la Bergkamp at Arsenal or Messi at Barca. Not saying he will be terrible, but despite his usual wandering to the left, it is not his best position imo. Again both Deschamps and Alonso were great positonally and will drop back when out of possession to stifle any space that Robben may try to run into..and Lizarazu there will mitigate Robben to a great extent. I think the lack of space there will stifle your attack to a great extent.

And Alonso/Deschamps are great at starting counters which added to his wide players pace will definitely cause trouble to your defence.
 
On 1 vs 1 situation against sergi, Figo certainly has edge.And I don't think each time Bastian would move left to support sergi.
Figo can easly find Romario at some point of the match.
 
Relying on my strength on the flanks to win this, particularly focusing on TRVs left side. Henry isn't going to give much support to Sergi, so as I said in the OP my side will be looking to occupy Dunga and Schweinsteiger in the middle to give Figo a chance to get at Sergi. Defensively on that side Gallas is actually not a bad fit to deal with Henry cutting in from the left, given his skills as a centreback. Overmars would surely give Sagnol a good test on the right as well.
 
i am surprised it is 7-2 (my vote makes it 3). i think both team are pretty even, and i like most of the elements. however i think The Red Viper's defence is weaker (just about, I think Blanc-Desailly is better than Stam-Vidic). so my vote goes to @Jayvin
 
I'm surprised at the scoreline here. Lots of ifs and buts if you look at it overall but one thing keeps hitting the nail on the head: both Stam and Vidic turn like an oil tanker, and they are facing Romario. They are completely fecked.

It's not Romario, who is a much better player, but it instantly reminded me of this as the sort of thing that would happen regularly:

 
The Red Viper said:
Not denying that Jayvin's wide attackers would offer more width. Especially when he has Figo. But what would he do with that width, when Romario would be up against Vidic and Stam alone, for majority of those crosses?
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If Overmars or Figo got in behind your fullbacks (which is a real possibilty - especially on Sergi's side), there is every chance Vidic or Stam would be pulled wide to cover, I'd argue that it's more likely than Henry isolating Blanc.
 
manikandan nair said:
On 1 vs 1 situation against sergi, Figo certainly has edge.And I don't think each time Bastian would move left to support sergi.
Figo can easly find Romario at some point of the match.
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Absolutely. I myself agreeded that Figo has the advantage over Sergi in one-on-one situations and no matter how well tactically you set up, you can't keep players of the ability of Romario or Figo or for that instance Henry or Robben completely out of the game because they will somehow find a way to counter those tactics. It all comes down to probability.
 
Also Alonso isn't my only option for bringing the ball forward, Blanc was a more than capable passer.
 
antohan said:
I'm surprised at the scoreline here. Lots of ifs and buts if you look at it overall but one thing keeps hitting the nail on the head: both Stam and Vidic turn like an oil tanker, and they are facing Romario. They are completely fecked.

It's not Romario, who is a much better player, but it instantly reminded me of this as the sort of thing that would happen regularly:

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Except the player who got sold there was Silvestre, who is a much inferior defender to either Vidic or Stam. Anyway, Romario's burst of pace is obviously an issue but I am playing a deep backline with Dunga marshalling it and looking to plug those gaps/spaces where Romario likes to receive the ball. Its not like Romario would have a lot of time and space on the ball to run the defence ragged.
 
Jayvin said:
If Overmars or Figo got in behind your fullbacks (which is a real possibilty - especially on Sergi's side), there is every chance Vidic or Stam would be pulled wide to cover, I'd argue that it's more likely than Henry isolating Blanc.
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How?

I clearly mentioned that if Overmars and Figo look to cross from out wide, it is something I am willing to take a risk on since its only Romario upfront, who himself wasn't a great header of the ball and I am confident that both my defenders would deal against those crosses very well. Also, even though Figo would do well against Sergi, it won't be that easy for Figo, especially when Bastian helping him out. Figo would still win that battle because its Figo but he won't exploit fully.
 
My team isn't just going to be crossing into the box constantly, Overmars and Figo are both capable of shooting themselves, or cutting it back.
 
Something worth noting is I don't really need my fullbacks to get forward, whereas you could argue due to TRVs wide players tendency to cut inside he will need his fullbacks to provide width on occasion (particularly Sergi). Overall I think my defense is well suited to deal with his attack, while his looks a bit vulnerable on the flanks.
 
The Red Viper said:
Except the player who got sold there was Silvestre, who is a much inferior defender to either Vidic or Stam. Anyway, Romario's burst of pace is obviously an issue but I am playing a deep backline with Dunga marshalling it and looking to plug those gaps/spaces where Romario likes to receive the ball. Its not like Romario would have a lot of time and space on the ball to run the defence ragged.
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Yeah, it is Silvestre, but it's a great example, and you clearly got the point about the burst of pace. Romario was great at doing that sort of stuff and your defenders would have an absolute mare dealing with him.
 
antohan said:
Yeah, it is Silvestre, but it's a great example, and you clearly got the point about the burst of pace. Romario was great at doing that sort of stuff and your defenders would have an absolute mare dealing with him.
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Stam, when short of fitness or form, was sometimes incredibly sluggish over the first few yards. Anelka embarrassed him in his first game for us IIRC. At the top of his game it was rarely an issue though. With Vidic, I don't think he had particular issues with nippy players as long as he played deep. Its when someone got in behind him with space to run into that he struggled to recover. Romario is a different proposition entirely from almost any other striker of course.

Eto'o at the other end was a freaky talent himself, with a similar-ish skillset to Romario in some ways. I'm still pretty much undecided here.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
Stam, when short of fitness or form, was sometimes incredibly sluggish over the first few yards. Anelka embarrassed him in his first game for us IIRC. At the top of his game it was rarely an issue though. With Vidic, I don't think he had particular issues with nippy players as long as he played deep. Its when someone got in behind him with space to run into that he struggled to recover. Romario is a different proposition entirely from almost any other striker of course.

Eto'o at the other end was a freaky talent himself, with a similar-ish skillset to Romario in some ways. I'm still pretty much undecided here.
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If both defences have to sit deep then Blanc does bring a significant differential to the table in terms of his passing.

As a result, I don't see Xabi and Deschamps forced to go as deep as Scholes/Schweinsteiger to build up the play. Add to that Henry will likely be pretty high up the pitch, Robben less so but more relative to Boban, Overmars and Figo who are more likely to start their runs from midfield... And all the while Stam and Vidic are sitting deep to avoid leaving space behind their backs for Romario to receive. I just see a much smoother and more controlled transition from Jayvin here.
 
antohan said:
I'm surprised at the scoreline here. Lots of ifs and buts if you look at it overall but one thing keeps hitting the nail on the head: both Stam and Vidic turn like an oil tanker, and they are facing Romario. They are completely fecked.
Click to expand...
That's the deal-breaker for me. Not that the pace of TRV's front three wouldn't stretch Blanc and Gallas to breaking point, but the considerable strengths of Stam and Vidic are largely redundant when dealing with the slipperiness of Romario.
 
antohan said:
If both defences have to sit deep then Blanc does bring a significant differential to the table in terms of his passing.

As a result, I don't see Xabi and Deschamps forced to go as deep as Scholes/Schweinsteiger to build up the play. Add to that Henry will likely be pretty high up the pitch, Robben less so but more relative to Boban, Overmars and Figo who are more likely to start their runs from midfield... And all the while Stam and Vidic are sitting deep to avoid leaving space behind their backs for Romario to receive. I just see a much smoother and more controlled transition from Jayvin here.
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That's a good point. Scholes and Schweinsteiger are still well capable of finding TRV's forwards with a long-range pass, but he could be conceding quite alot of territorial advantage.
 
Jayvin - 12
.
Gio,
sajeev,
Thisistheone,
Edgar Allan Pillow,
.
antohan,
crappycraperson,
BorisDeLeFora,
Raees,

The Red Viper - 14
.
Wittmann45,
Decotron,
manikandan nair,
bucky,
DesiBD,
Invictus,
.
VivaJanuzaj,
Annahnomoss,
harms,
Joga Bonito,


Quite a close match, I should say! Still just one manager vote seperating the teams.
 
This was a real close one, two very strong teams. Went for Red Viper in the end. Just too much power.
 
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