The Reality Draft - Finals: VivaJanuzaj vs antohan

[antohan]

I did say Enzo will get a free role so of course he'll roam and help creating from deep. It goes without saying. Breitner and Seedorf are more than capable of making the transition from defense to attack. Any suggestion they can't is bollocks

So it isn't three forwards but two then, maybe your teamsheet should have reflected that? I certainly do know IRL it would be that way, and planned the game accordingly, but of course 3vs3 images look mouthwatering for scan votes. 3vs2? Meh.

Breitner and Seedorf are never going to make the sort of transition that can even remotely trouble my defence and if they try carrying the ball the guys I have pressign them will disposses them soon enough. Certainly no "through the eye of a needle" passes, more likely the sort my defence could easily intercept. For starters, all three of my defenders are better aerially than their counterparts and yes, that includes Abidal. Rummenigge was poor aerially, by his own admission.

 

[antohan]

The gif lists a back 3 for most of the game. I also don't believe Sammer would be free to help out the back 3 in that phase given Viva's MF 3 as well.

Because I will have the lion's share of possession. When I have the ball Sammer stays in midfield, obviously.

You do realise I have 5 midfielders to his three? Those five are pressing and the three are outnumbered and no sprayball geniuses, that's why there's no outball. IF they manage a pass and I have to move into a defensive phase Sammer drops into defence.

It's not a matter of belief, it's how a player like Sammer would play: sweeper, push into midfield inn possession and back to defence if under pressure.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

To be fair, Zanetti on right has always gotten the status of brick wall in these drafts, you have likes of Aldo and anto coming in and drooling all over him and heis beyond reproach etc. That's just how it is with some players

True enough. For my money Zanetti was a FAR better defender, in a purely...er...defensive sense - than many other fullbacks who made a name for themselves in his (Zanetti's) time. So, my "beef" here ain't with Zanetti's prowess as a defending fullback, but rather with the defensive weight of Viva's back four as such. He's sporting Zanetti on his weaker side and Reuter - who is decidedly a more offensive (than defensive) fullback in my book. The overall impression isn't...brick wall. Not here, given who they're up against, including exceptionally good wide players who are attacking from wide positions.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

True enough. For my money Zanetti was a FAR better defender, in a purely...er...defensive sense - than many other fullbacks who made a name for themselves in his (Zanetti's) time. So, my "beef" here ain't with Zanetti's prowess as a defending fullback, but rather with the defensive weight of Viva's back four as such. He's sporting Zanetti on his weaker side and Reuter - who is decidedly a more offensive (than defensive) fullback in my book. The overall impression isn't...brick wall. Not here, given who they're up against, including exceptionally good wide players who are attacking from wide positions.

With that CB duo, and the shielding from midfield it's a brick wall. When has there ever been a midfield that provides as much cover for defense as mine? You can't. And both Seedorf and Breitner have experience in protecting the full backs.
I don't agree about Reuter though

 

[antohan]

I would have voted for anto if he would have gone for a boring 433 with Baggio as false 9 of sorts

Boniek--------Baggio-------Nedved
--------------Neeskens------------
----------Sammer--Effenberg-------
Abidal---Hierro----Thiago---Amoros

Neeskens---Effenberg
-------Sammer-------
and they are all in their best positions.

Wait, so Abidal is now good enough and better than Ferrara? Amoros could play either side and was far more proven at it than Zanetti, played there in World Cup knockout stages, for starters.

That technically looks "safer" but there isn't really anything Hierro does there which Sammer can't. The whole high press, total football, triangles... it's all shot just to have an extra defender just in case. Ultimately it means I would have far less control of the game and would invite more pressure. As a second half sit back and shut down option it ain't too bad, but I would never start this game that way, let alone when Viva didn't expect to face this game the way it has been laid out.

It counts for jack, but it matters to me.

 

[antohan]

With that CB duo, and the shielding from midfield it's a brick wall. When has there ever been a midfield that provides as much cover for defense as mine? You can't. And both Seedorf and Breitner have experience in protecting the full backs.
I don't agree about Reuter though

The fact this is all fantasy aside, no one IRL would put together a midfield that way. It's mental that anyone having access (funds) for that sort of quality wouldn't have a midfield playmaker.

So let's assume Seedorf goes to cover Zanetti if/when beaten by Boniek, he probably gets beaten too but, in any case, Effenberg is now charging, completely on the loose and within shooting distance.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

With that CB duo, and the shielding from midfield it's a brick wall. When has there ever been a midfield that provides as much cover for defense as mine? You can't. And both Seedorf and Breitner have experience in protecting the full backs.
I don't agree about Reuter though

You don't agree that Reuter is better going forward than he is defending?

Fair enough. It's undoubtedly a, say, contestable point, though. I'm sure I ain't the only one who regards him in this light.

You're defending against two exceptionally nasty wide players here - let's not forget that. And you're playing a 4-3-3 of sorts. Let's not forget that either.

 

[Theon]

I think Viva will probably be the least knowledgeable manager if he wins this and I much prefer Antohan's arguments, which are as persuasive as always. I also like the creative system he's gone for.

That said, Viva has the better team for me. I don't think Antohan's defence is much cop at all, particularly in a back three with no wingbacks in sight facing Romario and Rummenigge. It's just extremely weak at this stage - None are good enough for a final stretching back to the 50's, particularly in a system such as this one.

I think Abidal is being hugely, hugely talked up by his manager and I can see Rummenigge/Breitner tearing him to shreds at times.

Romario against Silva is a huge mismatch. Not only that but a common occurrence will be Rummenigge driving infield towards Thiago, which means he'll never have his eye fully on Romario. To put it simply, I don't think Antohan has the quality back there to make up for the lack of numbers.

 

[Gio]

I love the fit of Anto's team. But it's not the fit of his back three that concerns me, it's the quality relative to the attack they'll be facing. I understand Sammer's covering role here and he's a fine man for that role. But it might get a bit stretched and create the same sort of situation as Czech Republic's first goal in the Euro '96 final. Here the Germans pushed up, Czech's recovered possession and sent an early ball up top. They didn't get the break as can happen when there is a lack of cover and Sammer couldn't salvage the situation. Different teams but can see a similar dynamic at times.

 

[antohan]

I love the fit of Anto's team. But it's not the fit of his back three that concerns me, it's the quality relative to the attack they'll be facing. I understand Sammer's covering role here and he's a fine man for that role. But it might get a bit stretched and create the same sort of situation as Czech Republic's first goal in the Euro '96 final. Here the Germans pushed up, Czech's recovered possession and sent an early ball up top. They didn't get the break as can happen when there is a lack of cover and Sammer couldn't salvage the situation. Different teams but can see a similar dynamic at times.

1. It's a hoof
2. It gets knocked down by a player challenging aerially in a way Romario never would succeed at.
3. There was no one, absolutely no one, at left back. People could say Abidal isn't that great (frankly, he is clearly a better defender than Reuter) but at the very least he would have been there!

 

[antohan]

I think Viva will probably be the least knowledgeable manager if he wins this and I much prefer Antohan's arguments, which are as persuasive as always. I also like the creative system he's gone for.

That said, Viva has the better team for me. I don't think Antohan's defence is much cop at all, particularly in a back three with no wingbacks in sight facing Romario and Rummenigge. It's just extremely weak at this stage - None are good enough for a final stretching back to the 50's, particularly in a system such as this one.

I think Abidal is being hugely, hugely talked up by his manager and I can see Rummenigge/Breitner tearing him to shreds at times.

Romario against Silva is a huge mismatch. Not only that but a common occurrence will be Rummenigge driving infield towards Thiago, which means he'll never have his eye fully on Romario. To put it simply, I don't think Antohan has the quality back there to make up for the lack of numbers.

And to think you had Sammer and he was actually asked to do something very similar... yet you ignore him altogether. Amazing. I should have posted a four-man backline and left the three men at the back for the gif. The reality though is, on average, I would look far more like the team I posted.

The teamsheet below is, basically, the exact same team.

 

[Theon]

And to think you had Sammer and he was actually asked to do something very similar... yet you ignore him altogether. Amazing. I should have posted a four-man backline and left the three men at the back for the gif. The reality though is, on average, I would look far more like the team I posted.

The teamsheet below is, basically, the exact same team.

I'm not sure what you're talking about with Sammer Anto, I had him as a defensive midfielder free to move around ahead of a back four - with Passarella and Paul McGath. Not a back three in front of Thiago which is completely different.

Even if we ignore that which we shouldn't, I was facing Krankl. You're facing Romario and Rummenigge.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I think Viva will probably be the least knowledgeable manager if he wins this and I much prefer Antohan's arguments, which are as persuasive as always. I also like the creative system he's gone for.

That should never even be a consideration here. There's opportunities for everyone to learn, some more than others. It's better if we kept the discussion to the team and if you are not convinced by the arguments then feel free to ask for more. Again the team and strategies should be in focus not managers knowledge, which is a secondary consideration.

 

[PedroMendez]

The individual quality of Antohan´s defence isnt over the top impressive, but all players fit well into the system. I think thats more important than having just big names. Its also noteworthy, that many alltime CBs would be pretty shit in a high-line. The whole concept is, that Viva doesnt have a good build up to prevent his forwards to be efficient. Viva would struggle to keep the ball/pass the ball forward. Obviously that doesnt work all the time, but without a classic playmaker in midfield he´d struggle.
His offence has great balance between them. You have everything you want. playmaker, passer, build-up player, dribbler, finisher and the right amount of individual genuis.
Viva´s team is a bit more streamlined, but less versatile and his midfield scares me away. Replace one of those players with a holdingplayer/playmaker and things would look better.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

I think Viva will probably be the least knowledgeable manager if he wins this and I much prefer Antohan's arguments, which are as persuasive as always. I also like the creative system he's gone for.

That said, Viva has the better team for me. I don't think Antohan's defence is much cop at all, particularly in a back three with no wingbacks in sight facing Romario and Rummenigge. It's just extremely weak at this stage - None are good enough for a final stretching back to the 50's, particularly in a system such as this one.

I think Abidal is being hugely, hugely talked up by his manager and I can see Rummenigge/Breitner tearing him to shreds at times.

Romario against Silva is a huge mismatch. Not only that but a common occurrence will be Rummenigge driving infield towards Thiago, which means he'll never have his eye fully on Romario. To put it simply, I don't think Antohan has the quality back there to make up for the lack of numbers.

Maybe the first paragraph is true, first of all I haven't been here enough at this draft and the final either, because I have a life outside this fantasy draft, but Jesus, if this isn't the place to learn about players than where is?
Cut a guy some slack.
feck me, talk about take the wind out of your sails.. Make one or two wrong statements and you're under attack and deserve jack shit.

FYI, I'm playing these drafts mostly to learn about old players that I wasn't old enough to watch, and yes, that includes some not too old players. But that's how I learn. I remember my first draft at the newbies a few years ago. I was bloody clueless. I don't think that's the case atm and the team I drew shows it. But if you want to ruin it for me, go ahead. You're doing great

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

The individual quality of Antohan´s defence isnt over the top impressive, but all players fit well into the system. I think thats more important than having just big names. Its also noteworthy, that many alltime CBs would be pretty shit in a high-line. The whole concept is, that Viva doesnt have a good build up to prevent his forwards to be efficient. Viva would struggle to keep the ball/pass the ball forward. Obviously that doesnt work all the time, but without a classic playmaker in midfield he´d struggle.
His offence has great balance between them. You have everything you want. playmaker, passer, build-up player, dribbler, finisher and the right amount of individual genuis.
Viva´s team is a bit more streamlined, but less versatile and his midfield scares me away. Replace one of those players with a holdingplayer/playmaker and things would look better.

I still have the option to replace Seedorf with Veron, but I'm not sure he'll be able to do the same job in terms of midfield battle which is crucial in this match. I do think however, that my team is comfortable in focusing mostly on counters, which will surely be deadly once the ball gets to either one of my front trio in any position up the pitch. I don't think I need to play a traditional counter attacking team though, with a set of players designed to defend. I can definitely do it, but I surely think that between them, my players can surely hold on to the ball and create by themselves, I don't have a single player on my team that is a stranger to playing simple passing, and the Breitner-Rummenigge combo will easily re-ignite here.
I do think that Francescoli can also come deep at his free role like I explained in the OP and be that creative figure, sending Romario just a bit to the left striker with Kalle joining from RiF. That's class attacking and against that defense it's bound to score imo

 

[Theon]

That should never even be a consideration here. There's opportunities for everyone to learn, some more than others. It's better if we kept the discussion to the team and if you are not convinced by the arguments then feel free to ask for more. Again the team and strategies should be in focus not managers knowledge, which is a secondary consideration.

No I definitely don't agree with you, the thought of the manager has to count for something - as does the tactics and the quality of the write up. There is a huge amount of rubbish thrown around here, if you know that it's incorrect then quite clearly it should be a consideration.

Antohan is typically fantastic there, he talks about the actual qualities of the player and explains how his players suit the role - that deserves some credit.

I've spoken before about the 'rating a player out of 10 and that's what he is' tendency in these drafts, and it doesn't help anything - certainly not people reading the thread to try and gain some knowledge on players they haven't seen before. A player being great doesn't mean he's great at everything, yet we see time and time again managers talk about their players in these terms - if he's great then he must be great at passing, dribbling and shooting too. No, often he isn't. Talk about him properly.

Maybe the first paragraph is true, first of all I haven't been here enough at this draft and the final either, because I have a life outside this fantasy draft, but Jesus, if this isn't the place to learn about players than where is?

Chill out, I've already said that I voted for you.

I do think that a lot of the time your comments are way, wayy off. That's a fair comment as far as I'm concerned. People read them. They should generally be true.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Chill out, I've already said that I voted for you.

I do think that a lot of the time your comments are way, wayy off. That's a fair comment as far as I'm concerned.

I couldn't give a shit about your vote. I've seen you targeting me ever since that Souness comment and how preposterous as you think it was, doesn't mean I know squat about football.
But go ahead and be a cnut to a younger man trying to learn more about past players in a relatively fun way. I might not have the same knowledge or background in football like you have, or some of the older managers have, but I'm pretty confident I understand the game better. Anyway, you're more than welcome to withdraw your vote because it doesn't matter to me too much, as I said, I'm learning in the process, and winning/losing here just doesn't matter to me as much as learning.

 

[antohan]

I'm not sure what you're talking about with Sammer Anto, I had him as a defensive midfielder free to move around ahead of a back four - with Passarella and Paul McGath. Not a back three in front of Thiago which is completely different.

Even if we ignore that which we shouldn't, I was facing Krankl. You're facing Romario and Rummenigge.

Yeah, you had him dropping to cover Passarella, which was weird. I have him starting as a defender in a four, pushing up to midfield once in possession, and dropping back if I have to switch to a defensive phase again. It's what he did week in, week out, and was the Best Player in the World in 1996 on the back of doing precisely that.

 

[antohan]

Maybe the first paragraph is true, first of all I haven't been here enough at this draft and the final either, because I have a life outside this fantasy draft, but Jesus, if this isn't the place to learn about players than where is?
Cut a guy some slack.
feck me, talk about take the wind out of your sails.. Make one or two wrong statements and you're under attack and deserve jack shit.

He actually voted for you way before posting that. Just brush it off as sour grapes mate

 

[antohan]

I still have the option to replace Seedorf with Veron, but I'm not sure he'll be able to do the same job in terms of midfield battle which is crucial in this match. I do think however, that my team is comfortable in focusing mostly on counters, which will surely be deadly once the ball gets to either one of my front trio in any position up the pitch. I don't think I need to play a traditional counter attacking team though, with a set of players designed to defend. I can definitely do it, but I surely think that between them, my players can surely hold on to the ball and create by themselves, I don't have a single player on my team that is a stranger to playing simple passing, and the Breitner-Rummenigge combo will easily re-ignite here.
I do think that Francescoli can also come deep at his free role like I explained in the OP and be that creative figure, sending Romario just a bit to the left striker with Kalle joining from RiF. That's class attacking and against that defense it's bound to score imo

Which is exactly the problem, you won't do it regularly enough. I think you will score one, two at best if you are lucky. I will better that.

 

[Theon]

I've seen you targeting me ever since that Souness comment and how preposterous as you think it was, doesn't mean I know squat about football.

But go ahead and be a cnut to a younger man trying to learn more about past players in a relatively fun way. I might not have the same knowledge or background in football like you have, or some of the older managers have, but I'm pretty confident I understand the game better.

I didn't mean to get you riled up Viva. I think you've overreacted though - It isn't just you who does this. And like I said, I think it's a fair comment that some of your views are off base given the nature of the forum and the fact that people read what you write.

And I've no issue with you trying to learn, I've wrote essays on here with that in mind. What I've said is that a lot of your comments from where I'm sitting are incorrect. The idea of these discussions should be to talk about the players properly, the actual game should come second. It's becoming very common for these discussions to turn silly. It's not just you.

 

[Theon]

I have him starting as a defender in a four, pushing up to midfield once in possession, and dropping back if I have to switch to a defensive phase again. It's what he did week in, week out, and was the Best Player in the World in 1996 on the back of doing precisely that.

Didn't Dortmund play a 3-5-2? Germany did in Euro '96, as far as I know.

As I said that's completely different. And given you're facing Romario I think it's an issue. There are no great passers in his side but if he wins the ball it won't be difficult for Keane or Breitner to play a pass through to Romario, particularly as you're playing a highline which leaves space in behind.

I don't love the highline against Romario either. His acceleration gets highlighted but he was no slouch generally and he was a fantastic dribbler. A quick transition after winning the ball and Keane/Seedorf/Breitner knocking a ball over the top will cause problems with just Thiago central.

 

[antohan]

Didn't Dortmund play a 3-5-2? Germany did in Euro '96, as far as I know.

They did, they also played attacking fullbacks, which means they left two, not three, at the back. My three stay, it's actually a safer setup than those 3-5-2s, and the absence of wingbacks is irrelevant seeing as Boniek and Nedved track back. Instead of having wingbacks who attack I have wingers who defend, they are far better in attack and they aren't facing any threat out wide except from the fullbacks. If Boniek tracks Zanetti he'll actually need to stop at the halfway line and wait for him to catch up.

As I said that's completely different. And given you're facing Romario I think it's an issue. There are no great passers in his side but if he wins the ball it won't be difficult for Keane or Breitner to play a pass through to Romario, particularly as you're playing a highline which leaves space in behind.

Romario is a far more dangerous player in and around the box. His trademark trick was dropping deep ever so slightly, making the defender move forward... then turning and attacking the space created behind him, and he had Laudrup threading those balls. Here you have no Laudrup and he is miles away from goal. All the defenders are better aerially than his forwards, play it lowish and it can be intercepted, play it high and far forward and Chilavert sweeps it up. It's a very precise through ball you are looking for here.

When he wins the ball back, where are Breitner and Keane? Breitner likely on the edge of the box protecting Reuter-Kohler, if he gets the ball it is likely from Nedved, if he can get it off him, and then Breitner has Nedved on his arse. Keane also deep and with Neeskens on his arse... Before them there are two midfielders (Sammer/Effenberg) and the three defenders with Romario/Rummenigge sandwiched in between. He is miles away from producing any danger and chances are whatever pass he tries will end up at the feet of one of my players.

I don't love the highline against Romario either. His acceleration gets highlighted but he was no slouch generally and he was a fantastic dribbler. A quick transition after winning the ball and Keane/Seedorf/Breitner knocking a ball over the top will cause problems with just Thiago central.

Which he can't execute anywhere near at the level required here.

And why is it just Thiago central? The entire point of playing an LCB and RCB is being able to keep it tight through the middle, invite them out to the flank, which helps delay them long enough to regroup.

Romario was no slouch, but -burst of acceleration aside- he won't beat Thiago or Abidal over a distance. It's a few yards of advantage and, as I said, it is bound to be the case that I concede one or two (at worst). I will just score more.

NEDVED-VIERI-BAGGIO-BONIEK, W/NEESKENS-SAMMER-EFFENBERG, no one can live with that.

Seriously, Romario in a setting not ideal for him and with little service vs. all those in their element, it isn't a contest really.

 

[antohan]

The individual quality of Antohan´s defence isnt over the top impressive, but all players fit well into the system. I think thats more important than having just big names. Its also noteworthy, that many alltime CBs would be pretty shit in a high-line. The whole concept is, that Viva doesnt have a good build up to prevent his forwards to be efficient. Viva would struggle to keep the ball/pass the ball forward. Obviously that doesnt work all the time, but without a classic playmaker in midfield he´d struggle.
His offence has great balance between them. You have everything you want. playmaker, passer, build-up player, dribbler, finisher and the right amount of individual genuis.
Viva´s team is a bit more streamlined, but less versatile and his midfield scares me away. Replace one of those players with a holdingplayer/playmaker and things would look better.

Good to see I'm not going mad.

 

[antohan]

I'm increasingly interested in doing a wee experiment here:

No change whatsoever to tactics or how I go about playing the game, just the formation before the spine shifts up moving on to an extended period of possession.

Just update my formation to this @Edgar Allan Pillow

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Drunk ams enkoying holiday. Will do upstate tomorrow.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Update

 

[antohan]

I'm still baffled at how people perceive a four man defence where a libero joins the midfield and leaves LCB-CB-RCB behind as distinctly more vulnerable than your average four-man backline where both fullbacks usually go forward, or the classic five-man ones Sammer used to play in where three players pushed forward and only two were left behind. A high line also means the distance to recover is minor, Sammer is essentially a few yards further forward than the other three.

It's like the moment there's a high line it is presumed players are on railtracks with a free run on goal regardless of whether they can get any service or the defenders marking them are actually better headers of the ball and quicker than them, thus far more likely to get the ball themselves. In the meantime, having far more possession with a stronger and more versatile midfield and proven compatible strike partners counts for jack.

 

[antohan]

Update

Don't bother then, the point was making an experiment with scan voters by playing the exact same team with the exact same tactics but making it all look prettier and safer by showing my sweeper in defence and not up in midfield with a high line right behind him which is what would happen for most of the game simply because I will have the ball and have the players to keep it.

There's no way I'm doing that when you wake up and I'm sleeping, particularly when I will miss the end of the game given how late we started it.

 

[Jayvin]

The individual quality of Antohan´s defence isnt over the top impressive, but all players fit well into the system. I think thats more important than having just big names.

Good post and definitely agree with this, it makes it more interesting IMO. Too often in these drafts (and I am certainly guilty of it myself) people opt for the big names at the expense of team balance or take the easy option and just link up players who played together in real life. My team in this draft was probably my least favourite of all the drafts I've entered for that reason, everybody knows the 98 French defense was excellent, but it's a bit of a cop out really.

I think Viva's pick of Zanetti is perfect example of this favouring the big name 'draft legend' over a more logical but perhaps less scan voter friendly player. People can waffle on about how he could play LB and was very good there, but it wasn't his natural position and no one will convince me that Zanetti was a better left back than Lizarazu or Cabrini.

 

[antohan]

Good post and definitely agree with this, it makes it more interesting IMO. Too often in these drafts (and I am certainly guilty of it myself) people opt for the big names at the expense of team balance or take the easy option and just link up players who played together in real life. My team in this draft was probably my least favourite of all the drafts I've entered for that reason, everybody knows the 98 French defense was excellent, but it's a bit of a cop out really.

I think Viva's pick of Zanetti is perfect example of this favouring the big name 'draft legend' over a more logical but perhaps less scan voter friendly player. People can waffle on about how he could play LB and was very good there, but it wasn't his natural position and no one will convince me that Zanetti was a better left back than Lizarazu or Cabrini.

Agreed, it's boring, but then you have people complaining about superteams... Go figure.

Errr, I could use the vote since the silent scan voters pile up thick and fast while I sit around waiting for those commenting in favour to act upon it. @Chesterlestreet probably went for a beer or two and will only come back after he has nursed his hangover

 

[Joga Bonito]

Was a tight call but I don't really like Antohan's defense esp against that imposing trio that VivaJanuzaj team possesses. At the end of the day I can see Viva's defense doing a better job dealing with Antohan's attack than antohan's defense dealing with Viva's offense.

Would have preferred something like this personally.


Sammer will be at his rampaging best here in his favoured libero position with Hierro providing the pin-point distribution from the back. Effenberg and Neeskens being the all-action shuttling box-to-box midfielders that they would excel at. Raul and Baggio's chaotic movement causing all sorts of problems for Keane(who is not playing a holding midfield role according to Viva and if he does play the holding role, then it's Neeskens and Effenberg against Seedorf and Breitner in the middle of the park) whilst giving headaches for Viva's central defensive partnership.

 

[MJJ]

I actually thought that anto would play something similar to van gaal's ajax where sammer would be in rijkaard role but I think he has been a bit too adventurous with his team which might cost him in the end. The midfield battle will be tough as I can see both sides just kicking the shit out of each other and the game will be more end to end I think.

Although anto has a better outlet in the form of his wingers, I think VJ defense is better and he has sorted the creativity issue as well. Went for him but it was close.

 

[Balu]

I actually thought that anto would play something similar to van gaal's ajax where sammer would be in rijkaard role but I think he has been a bit too adventurous with his team which might cost him in the end. The midfield battle will be tough as I can see both sides just kicking the shit out of each other and the game will be more end to end I think.

Although anto has a better outlet in the form of his wingers, I think VJ defense is better and he has sorted the creativity issue as well. Went for him but it was close.

Isn't he doing that? Van Gaal's Ajax side was certainly equally adventurous and Rijkaard's role was probably even more attacking than Sammer's here, but overall not too different. Litmanen was a 2nd striker similar to how I see Baggio roaming around and moving forward, like you can see in anto's gif.

 

[MJJ]

Isn't he doing that? Van Gaal's Ajax side was certainly equally adventurous and Rijkaard's role was probably even more attacking than Sammer's here, but overall not too different. Litmanen was a 2nd striker similar to how I see Baggio roaming around and moving forward, like you can see in anto's gif.

From the little I have read and watched , in Van Gaal side the midfielders were the one who would drop to track the runners while the wingers stayed up to provide an out ball. Anto is having his wingers track both the fullbacks back.

He has also mentioned that nedved would be taking his marker on resulting in a loss of possession from time to time while Van Gaal was all about controlling the ball and minimizing the risk which allowed him to execute the system to perfection.

I also dont think Silva is that good on the ball and litamen would often drop deep to cover for rijkaard and giving them an extra man in midfield. I dont think baggio is that comfortable doing that but again can be wrong as havent seen a lot of him.

The key to Van Gaal Ajax was always having an extra man available to retain possession, something I dont see happening here.

Anto also has sammer alongside effenberg with neeskens as an AM rather than having sammer as a DM, with effenberg and neeskens as two B2B and the Am dropping deep.

 

[Balu]

In general I think defenders who played in high lines are always underrated and treated a bit unfairly in draft games, especially in comparison to the 80'a and 90's defenders who were usually part of a deep sitting brick wall with more than enough protection around them and yes, that makes defending easier.

I went with antohan, probably not surprising, but I really love that 352 team, it's beautiful and well created. I didn't like viva's midfield in the last game and think it's an even bigger problem now that he faces a team that actually can pull off a pretty flawless high press.

 

[Balu]

From the little I have read and watched , in Van Gaal side the midfielders were the one who would drop to track the runners while the wingers stayed up to provide an out ball. Anto is having his wingers track both the fullbacks back.

He has also mentioned that nedved would be taking his marker on resulting in a loss of possession from time to time while Van Gaal was all about controlling the ball and minimizing the risk which allowed him to execute the system to perfection.

I also dont think Silva is that good on the ball and litamen would often drop deep to cover for rijkaard and giving them an extra man in midfield. I dont think baggio is that comfortable doing that but again can be wrong as havent seen a lot of him.

The key to Van Gaal Ajax was always having an extra man available to retain possession, something I dont see happening here.

Anto also has sammer alongside effenberg with neeskens as an AM rather than having sammer as a DM, with effenberg and neeskens as two B2B and the Am dropping deep.

Sounds like minor changes to suit the players available to me. Of course you'd give Neeskens a more important role than young Davids and Seedorf and keep Effenberg slightly deeper, because he's a significantly better passer from deep than Davids or Seedorf.

I think anto got a bit caught in explaining too many phases of the game and lost the focus on the main part, which still is the 352 with countless triangles and the lord of the triangles in Neeskens in the middle, he mentioned high press and majority of possession more than enough to not judge his team mainly on the plan B. Anto will pin back Viva in his own half and I don't see Viva's team well equipped to play out of trouble at the back, nor to play long balls over the midfield and go from there.

 

[MJJ]

Sounds like minor changes to suit the players available to me. Of course you'd give Neeskens a more important role than young Davids and Seedorf and keep Effenberg slightly deeper, because he's a significantly better passer from deep than Davids or Seedorf.

I think anto got a bit caught in explaining too many phases of the game and lost the focus on the main part, which still is the 352 with countless triangles and the lord of the triangles in Neeskens in the middle, he mentioned high press and majority of possession more than enough to not judge his team mainly on the plan B. Anto will pin back Viva in his own half and I don't see Viva's team well equipped to play out of trouble at the back, nor to play long balls over the midfield and go from there.

I think that might be true as initially I voted for him but after reading the whole thread changed it to VJ. With VJ's midfield I dont think he is going to be pinned back as all three are good ball winners but I do see your point. He really needs a playmaker from the deep which was my main complaint against his side in the last round as he had no creativity.

This is tough, will have to think a little bit more.

Although I dont think the changes are minor, as the wingers were more like wing forward in Van Gaal and he really struggled when overmars was injured while here they seem to be like defensive wingers? That along with everything else means the uniqueness of that system which made it work is lost here. So if I assume its a replica of that, I think VJ will win.

But if he is playing a traditional 3-5-2 then I think he will have an edge as he can just move the ball around and have VJ chasing shadows. And VJ doesnt have the players to exploit the weaknesses of the system.

 

[Raees]

How exactly do the front three get the ball then? I don't see anyone with the passing range to worry about. Seedorf running with the ball has to do away with Effenberg at the very least. Breitner has one (or both) of Sammer and Neeskens to "run past".

His transition is disfunctional at best. That's what wins or loses games when you have players of this calibre on the pitch.

Depends what Seedorf Viva has in mind, the AC Milan version.. his passing was a lot better than the young Seedorf - see below the assist. If you're playing on the counter which Viva will have to do.. it isn't about creative passing per se but just being able to make accurate long range passes into space to get it to feet for your attackers to run at a defence which is high up the pitch. Enzo is probably the silky creative type in this team.. one touch into his feet and I'm sure he can hit a diagonal in behind Abidal for Rumenigge to latch onto. Nevertheless I agree that it is going to rely heavily on Romario conjuring dangerous moments out of nothing, but if there is one striker who can do that - it is Romario. One v one Romario can take on anyone especially if in peak form.

Either way I can't see this being a clean sheet for either team. Look at the side Romario is playing for, nature of the midfield set up.. barely any creativity behind him and compare it to the centre-back partnership he is up against.. he ran them ragged as soon as he got the ball to feet.. it took an amazing performance by Baresi to keep him quiet (in a very defensive set up) and even then he could have scored a brace at the very least - this match is on the counter against weaker defenders. He's a different player to a Messi.. because he is so damn direct and can go either way. One v one.. lethal.