The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[RedSky]

You are supposing that a new manager will come in and immediatley hit the ground runing, Given the fact that only Jose has come remotely close to doing this, I would not bet on this. This is unllikely. For reasons beyond all of us, when a new manager at MUFC is appointed, he gradually gets bogged down and goes ultra defensive. I would assume that the next manager will also suffer in the same way.

Regarding CFC, next year, they are likely to decline. It's how it work at CFC. Absolutely bizarre - manager comes in and everything is bright and sunny. They win the title, then the following year it completely falls apart.

Our goals:
Lukaku - 10 goals - This guy needs multiple , clear cut chances to score. The open header in one of our last games was infuriating to watch. He headed out over the bar. There was also a 1v1 chance which he fluffed.
Martial - 3 goals - he hardly gets to play these days, which is down to Jose.
Rashford - 3 goals - he is young and given that Lukaku is a better player than him and we need goals, Rashford rightfully comes off the bench.
Sanchez - 2 goals - this will remain the greatest mystery in football. A Galactico class attacker, who can't score goals.
Lingard - 2 goals - he went through a purple patch - Messi Lingod - but he has now gone back to his true level. The guy doesn't score many goals and should only be a bench option in the last 20 minutes.
Mata - 0 goals - I have no idea what is going on with Mata. I think he is a better player than what we see, but he doesn't score many goals.

Of those, I'd say Martial is the one which Jose is culpable for. The other players are getting game time, but just aren't good enough to play for a top club, where demands are high. Had Ruud Van Nistlerooy been in this team, we'd have beaten probably all the teams we played this season, but Lukaku can't stop missing chances and we are losing/drawing, as a result.

Yet two of those players are Mourinho signings. So if we're complaining about their quality then what does that say about Jose. Remember he said our attack was fine a few months ago. You've also listed 3 of those players as mysteries on why their form is dipping. Even if they are fairly average players they should be scoring more goals than they actually are. If it's a scenario where the majority of our players are struggling then perhaps it's got nothing to do with their quality but how they're coached and the tactics we deploy? Bournemouth outscoring us in 2018 so far. Bournemouth.

My issue is that every time we have a dip in form its the players quality that gets questioned, happened with Moyes with LVG and now with Jose. That might be true for some of our players but how many times do we have to buy in new players only for them to turn to shit while at United. How many players that Jose has brought in have improved?

Ultimately you have to look at our attack, understand that Chris Smalling of all people is our 3rd highest scorer and come to the conclusion that something is seriously, seriously wrong. Smalling has out scored all of our attackers except Lukaku. Let that sink in.

 

[tomaldinho1]

All the Mou-in guys I wanna ask a question.

Have seen a lot of justification of Mou being a winner (the other teams like Pool and Spurs have not won anything) and we finished second so it’s progress etc.

So what would be a successful season in your eyes given all the farcical stuff that’s going on ON TOP of the recent bad performances?

Based on the arguments above it would seem that the natural inference is that we win the PL as that is the only improvement from 2nd last year?

I would happily take 2nd again, if we started playing more entertaining football. I don't feel any attachment to any of our players (or the manager) and I fear we'll become known as a big cash cow for players who just want a payday and don't want to move to China. Woodward has been excellent on the business side but the fun of watching us play has been at an all time low this season and all we hear is how revenue is up.

A successful season would be to be within ~10pts of the title (we clearly won't win it this year) & a good run in the CL (QF minimum). Additional cups are a bit of an irrelevance these days. I think both the PL and CL expectations are lofty sadly and fully expect teams to play with more and more confidence against us, knowing they can pay a possession based game without too much pressing against them.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

No. I saw a bunch of players joking around for a few seconds during a match. Who gives a damn? Why?

Because it all adds to the fecking circus around Paul Pogba and that doesn't help the club.

 

[Amir]

Because it all adds to the fecking circus around Paul Pogba and that doesn't help the club.

I'd say the one who did that was Jose Mourinho and his own circus yesterday.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

And we know that to be 100% true because it's the newspapers, right?

and you know it to not be true?

In the context of what he has said in interviews since it seems utterly plausible - but whatever, keep your blinkers on.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Is that aimed at me?! My first visit to Old Trafford was in 1985 and I had a season ticket for 12 years in the early 90s and 00s. But a guy from Melbourne says I care more about Mourinho that the club...

Ah you know the top fans when they bring into the equation where another poster is from.

 

[Treble]

Because it all adds to the fecking circus around Paul Pogba and that doesn't help the club.

What's your take on Mourinho? He's still one of the very best managers and we should back him till...when?

 

[Fracture90]

He was saying he is a manager capable of big wins and big losses just like SAF was. It was his way of telling the media to relax and he knows what he's doing as he manages United.

Moyes no because he had no track record. It would just seem bizzare for him to be saying things so candidly without having a CV to warrant it. Lvg IIRC said some things about the club or the aspirations he had which disappointed sections of the fans.

Because that's just what we needed to hear when we got booted by Sevilla team from CL whilst we played some absolutely soul crushing stuff, right? How sensible from our manager to point out we're used to going out in early stages of CL, rather than taking responsibility for dogshiit performance and apologising for it?

So the more trophies the manager has the more leeway you give him to disrespect the club ?

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

I'd say the one who did that was Jose Mourinho and his own circus yesterday.

Mourinho is one thing, Pogba is another. People on here trying to excuse Pogbas actions cos they are desperate to place all the blame on Mourinho. It's pathetic. He was a mercenary when he left Le Havre, a mercenary when he left United the first time, and is making us look like idiots a second time around so he and his agent can secure another lucrative move...

 

[Fracture90]

and you know it to not be true?

In the context of what he has said in interviews since it seems utterly plausible - but whatever, keep your blinkers on.

Maybe you've missed the part where Jose Mourinho himself, you know the man you're so invested in defending, came out and said there has been no transfer request from Pogba nor his manager. But hey, newspapers know better, right?

 

[Random Task]

Because it all adds to the fecking circus around Paul Pogba and that doesn't help the club.

The circus surrounding Pogba was initiated by Jose Mourinho, just like the vast majority of negatives surrounding the club at present. I'm not saying Pogba correct in his handling of the Jose situation, but it is understandable.

I struggle to think of a single positive in keeping Jose at the club. Can you point one out?

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

What's your take on Mourinho? He's still one of the very best managers and we should back him till...when?

WTF? I am commenting on Paul Pogba's culpability for his various misdemeanors over the last few weeks - what has my opinion on how long we should back Mourinho for got to do with it?

 

[BrianMcClair'sBarnet]

Wenger in !

 

[Minimalist]

I've long held the opinion that rival fans are creating accounts on here, just to stir. Hoping the team lose. Saying the manager sucks. Saying the players suck. Basically, these are people who want us to fail. By definition, they cannot be fans of the club if they think the club, manager and players suck and hope for us to lose.

In response to this rhetoric, they put the banners on people's avatar, "City Lover," "Scouse Lover", etc, just to highlight that they may be fans of rival clubs and may not actually be MUFC fans. It's a good idea.

In defence of the Jose haters - he hasn't done well so far this season, but I am hoping he pulls it all together. Now is the time for him to show the World that he still has was it takes.

(1) Unless I'm missing something you have no proof of that.
(2) Are you honestly suggesting the critics of Mourinho are not real United fans?
(3) ...Why would opposition supporters want Mourinho to go? Seems to me they're fecking delighted he's at our club right now.

As a general note: I don't mind if people believe that Mourinho will turn it around. Just come up with decent arguments why he will. So far, I've barely seen anything that isn't vague platitudes about him. I'm also sick of people taking this bizarre narrative that the world is out to get us (things aren't that bad, it's just the big bad media making it seem so). Look I watch the fecking games - I'm not happy with what I'm seeing - that's all there is to it.

 

[VP89]

Because that's just what we needed to hear when we got booted by Sevilla team from CL whilst we played some absolutely soul crushing stuff, right? How sensible from our manager to point out we're used to going out in early stages of CL, rather than taking responsibility for dogshiit performance and apologising for it?

So the more trophies the manager has the more leeway you give him to disrespect the club ?

When you talk about taking responsibility you have to remember no manager comes out and says "I fecked up and got it wrong". Even if they did, it's just managerial suicide to say so.

Go on the defensive and remind the press about why you're the manager in the first place. That's what takes attention off the shit display and on to you, rightly or wrongly. And it worked. His job isn't to please fans in press conferences all the time, but to use them to galvanise or protect in the best way possible.

And it worked. After the presser we went on to win most the games we had and make a cup final rather than capitulate im the top 4 race.

A lot of posters here have a really limited view on presser and interviews, that only good and positive things should be said. It's quite surprising really I'd have thought a lot of posters would know better. Instead they're upset Mourinho said he wanted to take his son for a match in Paris one time and get butt hurt over it like @mancan92

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Maybe you've missed the part where Jose Mourinho himself, you know the man you're so invested in defending, came out and said there has been no transfer request from Pogba nor his manager. But hey, newspapers know better, right?

Of course Mourinho said that at the time! Pogba had been told we weren't selling him, the transfer window was closed, Mourinho had just made him vice-captain and we were just starting a new season...what would have been the point in saying that Pogba had wanted to leave?!

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Ah you know the top fans when they bring into the equation where another poster is from.

Erm, it was in direct response to the poster in question saying that people (me I assume as I'm pretty much the lone voice over the last couple of pages) cared more about Mourinho than the club!

 

[Treble]

WTF? I am commenting on Paul Pogba's culpability for his various misdemeanors over the last few weeks - what has my opinion on how long we should back Mourinho for got to do with it?

Ok, I'm just asking about your opinion of Mourinho now.

 

[Minimalist]

Really wish we would be proactive and get rid of him now. Just put Carrick in charge until the next man is ready.

Won't happen mind.

 

[Fracture90]

Of course Mourinho said that at the time! Pogba had been told we weren't selling him, the transfer window was closed, Mourinho had just made him vice-captain and we were just starting a new season...what would have been the point in saying that Pogba had wanted to leave?!

Again when countered with facts (Mourinho's own words) you resort to assumptions.

Well since those news came out today and we know for a fact Mourinho deliberately pulled that stunt in training yesterday, can we also assume he leaked those informations to newspapers today as well?

 

[Hawks2008]

Is that aimed at me?! My first visit to Old Trafford was in 1985 and I had a season ticket for 12 years in the early 90s and 00s. But a guy from Melbourne says I care more about Mourinho that the club...

Post wasn't for any specific poster, just generally aimed at the very zealous members of José's cult.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

The circus surrounding Pogba was initiated by Jose Mourinho, just like the vast majority of negatives surrounding the club at present. I'm not saying Pogba correct in his handling of the Jose situation, but it is understandable.

I struggle to think of a single positive in keeping Jose at the club. Can you point one out?

People starting to point fingers at Woodward/how this club is governed is the main positive outcome with JM at the helm atm.

Regarding Pogba and the "either me or Jose" situation; Feels like whistleblowing to me. He thinks that the manager is clueless and that the club will not improve or challenge for trophies(PL and CL) under the current management, so only way for him to improve his own situation is to do the things he does. Trying to force JM out by using the press, similar to JM trying to force Woodward to buy players by complaining to the press.

 

[Bruno Marques]

Erm, it was in direct response to the poster in question saying that people (me I assume as I'm pretty much the lone voice over the last couple of pages) cared more about Mourinho than the club!

Hard fight you got dragged to. You can do it, i will support you.

I would love to know how many of these fans where also fans from a certain spanish club that wears "red" and "blue" vertical stripes.

Anyway, of course, Mourinho also has problems and made mistakes but to think that all United problems would be solved with the replacing of just one man it's bollocks.

 

[Treble]

It is the first time that Jose falls out with a star player. Has never happened before.

 

[Random Task]

Even if we finish 6th and zero trophies, they will argue that a) the squad isn't good enough and Mourinho squeezed as much as he could out of them the year before and it is Woodward's fault for not providing funds b) Pogba for poisoning the squad, and if we sell him - the team will get back on track c) the fanbase fault, for not fully supporting the manager and creating a negative climate.

There is just no way out for the 'loyalists'. Mourinho is simply infallible.

That won't cut the mustard I'm afraid.

Woody tightening the purse strings might be true of the transfer window just gone, prior to that Jose had spent in excess of £400 million on player acquisitions. The only other manager in the country to rival such a figure was Klopp, whilst Pep trumped it by a considerable distance.

Jose has run out of excuses and so have his supporters.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

The circus surrounding Pogba was initiated by Jose Mourinho, just like the vast majority of negatives surrounding the club at present. I'm not saying Pogba correct in his handling of the Jose situation, but it is understandable.

I struggle to think of a single positive in keeping Jose at the club. Can you point one out?

I'm genuinely not here to point out positives in keeping Mourinho at the club - I'm commenting solely on people who are absolving Pogba of blame in order to place the blame entirely at the door of Mourinho.

Ok, I'm just asking about your opinion of Mourinho now.

Why would I want to get into a massive debate about that?! I'm having enough trouble trying to keep up woth the slavering attack dogs on the subject of blaming Jose for Pogba's shithousery as it is.

Again when countered with facts (Mourinho's own words) you resort to assumptions.

Well since those news came out today and we know for a fact Mourinho deliberately pulled that stunt in training yesterday, can we also assume he leaked those informations to newspapers today as well?

Eh? Since when was it a 'fact' that Mourinho deliberately pulled the stunt in training?! Don't lecture me on making assumptions if you're going to do exactly the same in the next sentence.

 

[Esquire]

I would happily take 2nd again, if we started playing more entertaining football. I don't feel any attachment to any of our players (or the manager) and I fear we'll become known as a big cash cow for players who just want a payday and don't want to move to China. Woodward has been excellent on the business side but the fun of watching us play has been at an all time low this season and all we hear is how revenue is up.

A successful season would be to be within ~10pts of the title (we clearly won't win it this year) & a good run in the CL (QF minimum). Additional cups are a bit of an irrelevance these days. I think both the PL and CL expectations are lofty sadly and fully expect teams to play with more and more confidence against us, knowing they can pay a possession based game without too much pressing against them.

Fair enough. I would take your results as a successful season. The follow on question must be, let’s just say we don’t get there. You still Mou-in?

 

[Judas]

Bit weird that Jose has a habit of alienating the best players he's managing, isn't it.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

It is the first time that Jose falls out with a star player. Has never happened before.

Yep, and Pogba has never fallen out with a United manager before either...

 

[Robbie Boy]

Erm, it was in direct response to the poster in question saying that people (me I assume as I'm pretty much the lone voice over the last couple of pages) cared more about Mourinho than the club!

Nah there’s plenty like you with this blind faith. Anyhow, who stoop to his level? Odd.

 

[Fracture90]

When you talk about taking responsibility you have to remember no manager comes out and says "I fecked up and got it wrong". Even if they did, it's just managerial suicide to say so.

Go on the defensive and remind the press about why you're the manager in the first place. That's what takes attention off the shit display and on to you, rightly or wrongly. And it worked. His job isn't to please fans in press conferences all the time, but to use them to galvanise or protect in the best way possible.

And it worked. After the presser we went on to win most the games we had and make a cup final rather than capitulate im the top 4 race.

A lot of posters here have a really limited view on presser and interviews, that only good and positive things should be said. It's quite surprising really I'd have thought a lot of posters would know better. Instead they're upset Mourinho said he wanted to take his son for a match in Paris one time and get butt hurt over it like @mancan92

There's plenty of top tier managers taking responsibility after poor performance, look no further than Zidane for example.

Yeah it worked lovely, that's why we're falling apart and majority of fanbase wants him out?

Let's cut the bs, just tell me one thing.

In your opinion has Mourinho done anything bad since he was appointed as UTDS manager?

 

[devilish]

He prob is, I would argue that most of it is worth losing.

true but football is like Game of thrones. You pick the deadwood quietly and quickly before they don't notice. If they do, then they will rally and kick the manager out. SAF was great on that. He'll identify the rotten apples and he got rid of them before they could organise against him. Mou never learnt that lesson. He lost the dressing room at Chelsea and probably at United and Real too.

 

[In Rainbows]

Are you fecking serious? You're pointing to that and call it disrespect to the club? Do you know why he said what he said? The suggestion from the media was that he did something absolutely unheard of at Sevilla and no manager would have done it.

He reminded people that United can suffer freak performances and freak results. SAF himself did against Porto.

But no let's sack him because he pointed out a bad memory. He literally said he's a big manager and can knock big teams out so don't jump on his back for one bad fixture.



He didn't say he wanted to manage PSG in the future. He just told a French Reporter for a French newspaper that there is magic in Paris and he wanted his son to experience it.

Oh my god let's kill the guy for publicly saying Paris was a better climate to watch the football than Manchester at the time. feck me you guys are a bunch of sensitive sods.



And none of them are that fecking bad. You're all just upset because he's not saying Man Utd is mecca.



He's also praised the fans shit loads. Do you want to look at that or do you want to cherry pick?

Klopp criticised Liverpool fans at Annfield in his post match when they lost to Palace.

It's common for some managers to try and get the fans united in support and call them out of they don't show enough passion. Get over it. The match going fans certainly have, they sing his name every game even when we are chasing. It doesn't look like they've feel disrespected. Because they fecking haven't.




Bit of a stupid thing to post considering Shaw has credit Mourinho for his turnaround and the manager himself has been full of praise.



So the best you guys have is:

Mourinho saying he preferred to take his son to watch a game in Paris once.

Mourinho saying you can hear fans in Portsmouth specifically because it's a small stadium. Whereas here it's bigger space so tougher to hear all.

Mourinho reminding the media that United have lost to a small team before so don't jump on him (common defensive tactic and very political. You'd be daft to read it as literal disrespect).

Mourinho giving Shaw tough love before praising him for turning it around.

Good one. Let's ignore the constant praise he gives to the club history, the fans and all that. Christ you're all a bunch of snowflakes. I'm out of this thread now, too toxic and limited for my liking.

Ok, so then how did Pogba disrespect the club? He hasn't had a go at the fans. He's stated to the media that he loves United. How did he disrespect the club? If you can hand wage the PSG non sense from Mou with that, surely you should do the same with the Barca business? If that cnut Raiola disrespecting Scholes is disrespecting the club, Mou himself disrespecting Scholes is also disrespecting the club.

By what measure did Pogba disrespect the club, but not Mourinho?

Someone who backs Mou, but not Pogba, spell it out for me. Because all I'm getting is that Mou is synonymous with United and anything aimed towards him means you're disrespecting United. Frankly, I just disagree with that way of thinking unless the manager himself leads by exemplary example.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Hard fight you got dragged to. You can do it, i will support you.

 

[Judas]

Yep, and Pogba has never fallen out with a United manager before either...

He never fell out with Fergie though, did he? He just left for Juve. It's funny how you like to make stuff up for your narrative, and believe what you want to make your point work.

 

[Random Task]

People starting to point fingers at Woodward/how this club is governed is the main positive outcome with JM at the helm atm.

Regarding Pogba and the "either me or Jose" situation; Feels like whistleblowing to me. He thinks that the manager is clueless and that the club will not improve or challenge for trophies(PL and CL) under the current management, so only way for him to improve his own situation is to do the things he does. Trying to force JM out by using the press, similar to JM trying to force Woodward to buy players by complaining to the press.

Which, to some extent at least, goes to show that Pogba does indeed care about the future of the club. The way he has handled the whole situation - airing the clubs dirty laundry in public - is the equivilent of how a child would demand attention, but that doesn't make his point any less significant.

 

[Treble]

Why would I want to get into a massive debate about that?! I'm having enough trouble trying to keep up woth the slavering attack dogs on the subject of blaming Jose for Pogba's shithousery as it is.

.

I asked about your opinion, not about your arguments. Anyway, I don't mind if you prefer to say nothing now.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

He never fell out with Fergie though, did he? He just left for Juve. It's funny how you like to make stuff up for your narrative, and believe what you want to make your point work.

Er, I think it's clear from Fergie's comments at the time that him and Pogba were not on good terms when he left - I'm not making anything up.

 

[elnorte]

He never fell out with Fergie though, did he? He just left for Juve. It's funny how you like to make stuff up for your narrative, and believe what you want to make your point work.

The comments made by Fergie about Pogba after he left the first time were posted on the forum recently. They were far from positive.

 

[Minimalist]

Bit weird that Jose has a habit of alienating the best players he's managing, isn't it.

Well it's usually players that tend to be creative and like a bit of freedom to enjoy themselves. Mourinho isn't a big fan of that in general and never has been.

"I've told him [Cole], one more match like that and he's out," he said. "He has to play for the team and not for the public and himself."

Not even saying Mourinho is wrong about this but there's definitely a trend (and it makes sense when you consider the type of coach he is).