The Modern Draft FINALS !!! - Theon vs Skizzo

At players career peaks, who will win the match?

  • Total voters
    39
  • Poll closed .


Sub incoming Juanfran goes out with Seydou Keita coming in. Lahm goes into RB spot to battle it out with Dinho and Keita adds a bit of defensive steel in the middle without losing any of the composure and metronomic passing capabilities in the middle.

@Edgar Allan Pillow Cheers
 
@Joga Bonito what i meant, one season at the highest level where they played much better then they did in seasons before even though they were good for several years.

Will probably give you guys the vote but dont think it will matter much as theon has significant lead....
 
Šjor Bepo said:
@Joga Bonito what i meant, one season at the highest level where they played much better then they did in seasons before even though they were good for several years.

Will probably give you guys the vote but dont think it will matter much as theon has significant lead....
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Oh alright then, misunderstood you.
 
harms said:
but I feel that you didn't improve it this much in the later rounds
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Tbf he could only upgrade with what was available to him and the pool was pretty uneven and shallow in some positions. Theon upgrades are Robben, Ronaldinho, Silva, Vidic and Mascherano whilst ours are Ribery, Iniesta, Cambiasso, Lahm and Courtouis who are fairly understated so I get what you are getting at. Theon did make a smart move going for DDG early on though, as it afforded him much more flexibility in manoeuvring the post 90 player rule when upgrading in future rounds so kudos to him for that.
 
Skizzo said:
Apparently the decision to skip Ronaldinho was a mistake. Forgot the power of star names for scan voters :)
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I don't think you could have done anything to win this game, Ronaldinho wouldn't have helped you win the game, he wasn't enough for his teams in the quarter- and semifinal either. All the reinforcements fell so perfectly into place for Theon, that he couldn't feck it up anymore after the quarterfinals. If you pick Ronaldinho, Theon could have picked Lahm and Xavi for Albiol and Khedira, no way you could have won that.

Terrific drafting from Theon.
 
Balu said:
I don't think you could have done anything to win this game, Ronaldinho wouldn't have helped you win the game either. All the reinforcements fell so perfectly into place for Theon, that he couldn't feck it up anymore after the quarterfinals. Ronaldinho didn't help his team win the quarter and semifinal for example. Theon could have picked Lahm and Xavi for Albiol and Khedira, no way you could have won that.

Terrific drafting from Theon.
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Oh I agree, don't get me wrong. I don't mean to discredit his team at all, bar Iniesta and Lahm, no one would outright improve his team. Once the reinforcements fell into his lap with Silva and Vidic, there wasn't gonna be anyone to match up to his team.
 
Personally I am not very fond of Sneijder-Ibrahimovic and Sneijder playing together. Robben can pull his weight and Sneijder as well but in systems where the entire teams defends. With Ibrahimovic and Ronaldinho the lack of defensive aggression on that side will allow for Skizzo to keep possession quite comfortable in his back line, which allows him to initiate good moves. In possession Sneijders role as a playmaker will be very small, taking away the greatest strength of the player. As there is just no benefits in having yet another playmaking in the final third.

Joga Bonito referred to Ibrahimovic as a ball Carrying/hogging player, which couldn't be more from the truth.

Overall I think that Skizzo/Joga was winning my vote with his original team. After the changes that team just doesn't look that great anymore. Good draft from both managers, seems like Theon is running away with it.
 
Annahnomoss said:
Personally I am not very fond of Sneijder-Ibrahimovic and Sneijder playing together. Robben can pull his weight and Sneijder as well but in systems where the entire teams defends. With Ibrahimovic and Ronaldinho the lack of defensive aggression on that side will allow for Skizzo to keep possession quite comfortable in his back line, which allows him to initiate good moves. In possession Sneijders role as a playmaker will be very small, taking away the greatest strength of the player. As there is just no benefits in having yet another playmaking in the final third.

Joga Bonito referred to Ibrahimovic as a ball Carrying/hogging player, which couldn't be more from the truth.

Overall I think that Skizzo/Joga was winning my vote with his original team. After the changes that team just doesn't look that great anymore. Good draft from both managers, seems like Theon is running away with it.
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We much preferred the original set up, and felt that we would edge the important areas. Especially as Theon stated he was playing as a counter attacking side. Having the 3 attackers plus Sneijder is overkill, and rather than enhance their abilities, limits them since they all need the ball to change the game how they could. Clearly not what majority of the scanners thought though :) We figured we'd try to mix it up a bit. Ah well. On to the next one :p
 
Skizzo said:
We much preferred the original set up, and felt that we would edge the important areas.

Especially as Theon stated he was playing as a counter attacking side.

Having the 3 attackers plus Sneijder is overkill
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I dont think you edged the important areas at all - what would they be? IMO you quite clearly had a worse midfield with Schwiensteiger/Mascherano better than Lahm/Cambiasso. You also quite clearly had the worse defence. You and Joga have played up the Atletico defence but in reality it's outclassed here, as a fantasy pairing Vidic/Thiago Silva is as good as it gets and there's no doubt it would be an unbelievable partnership in reality. Miranda in particular is two levels below that standard.

Never said we would be playing on the counter attack at all. I said that on the counter Ibrahimovic would be a huge asset as he can hold up the ball and initiate counters with his passing better than any other striker in the draft. For the majority of the game though I expect us to be on the front foot, as we have better players across the pitch and the more threatening attack which will encourage you to drop back.

You have three attackers plus Iniesta, not sure what the difference is with Sneijder - he's just as much of an offensive #8 as Iniesta was which is why he was put forward to play in United's two man midfield. Contrary to Joga's comments he was always a hard working playmaker.
 
I really think Theon's team would have been even better if he got Lahm + Xavi.

Sanchez Ibra Robben
Sneijder Xavi
Schweinsteiger
Cole Silva Vidic Lahm
De Gea
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No way, he'd lose that with whatever team Skizzo could have come up for the final. You probably couldn't come up with a better team, even if you picked freely out of all the eligible players in this draft. Other than Ronaldinho, Iniesta and Neuer no player from the available pool of players would be an upgrade.
 
Balu said:
I really think Theon's team would have been even better if he got Lahm + Xavi.

Sanchez Ibra Robben
Sneijder Xavi
Schweinsteiger
Cole Silva Vidic Lahm
De Gea
​
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That was the plan prior to Skizzo taking Lahm, as he got to pick first.

Took me a while to decide on what to do but I'm happy with this. I really like this team.
 
Theon said:
That was the plan prior to Skizzo taking Lahm, as he got to pick first.
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Yeah, obviously. It was a no-brainer really. I'm sure Skizzo knew it and therefore made the decision to go for Lahm first and see how it all pans out. Congrats, well deserved win with this team.
 
Theon said:
That was the plan prior to Skizzo taking Lahm, as he got to pick first.

Took me a while to decide on what to do but I'm happy with this. I really like this team.
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So do I, which is why I said you drafted well, and once you got silva and vidic, were unlikely to lose to anyone at that point.
 
Skizzo said:
We much preferred the original set up, and felt that we would edge the important areas. Especially as Theon stated he was playing as a counter attacking side. Having the 3 attackers plus Sneijder is overkill, and rather than enhance their abilities, limits them since they all need the ball to change the game how they could. Clearly not what majority of the scanners thought though :) We figured we'd try to mix it up a bit. Ah well. On to the next one :p
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I was dead certain he would be playing Khedira, I think that was a strong move both to improve his own team and to limit yours. Basically the Khedira-Schweinsteiger partnership but armoured with Mascherano. Then Ibrahimovic would have been the one-two option for Ronaldinho and Robben - outstanding set up offensively I believe. As long as Ibrahimovic/Robben makes the runs Ronaldinho will find them and as long as Ronaldinho/Robben make a run Ibrahimovic will find them with a through ball, a lob etc.

Your team from the off-set was outstanding, looked pretty much spot on. You guys had a very creative take on the upgrades. Ditching Robben, Lahm and Xavi in the first round when going for a high pressing team and picking Cambiasso takes some dare devil originality.

Then shipping Silva and Kroos out of the team, who fit perfectly in to it in the first place. Going all the way to a final with such creative decisions is incredibly difficult.

You guys needed the opponent to kind of feck up at this stage though, considering that you guys replaced Silva/Kroos while upgrading with worse players individually as well.

Spot in tactically though from match 1 as usual.
 
Joga Bonito said:
Tbf he could only upgrade with what was available to him and the pool was pretty uneven and shallow in some positions. Theon upgrades are Robben, Ronaldinho, Silva, Vidic and Mascherano whilst ours are Ribery, Iniesta, Cambiasso, Lahm and Courtouis who are fairly understated so I get what you are getting at. Theon did make a smart move going for DDG early on though, as it afforded him much more flexibility in manoeuvring the post 90 player rule when upgrading in future rounds so kudos to him for that.
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It's not a dig at him - of course, if he could, he would've improved more. But his great team from the start actually made this harder for him - you don't want to break the Atletico link when it's more than good enough for QF, for example. But in the end, here we are, Godin and Miranda vs (well, not versus, but you get what I'm saying) Vidic and Silva.

Yeah, and getting one of DDG or Courtois was crucial as the drafting suddenly became much easier.

I like your arguments for what it's worth, but I don't think that Theon has actual and serious flaws - and his slightly unbalanced trio is still too much for anyone to handle (bar, maybe, all-star defence, from which he himself has 2 or maybe even 3 players)
 
Joga Bonito said:
Once again playing alongside a peak Ronaldinho, Sneijder and Ibrahimovic is a completely different proposition to playing alongside the likes of Ribéry who managed to blend wingplay, playmaking and individual play cutting inside, to perfection and brilliant teammates like Müller and Kroos. I'm not against great individualistic talents (love them myself) and don't mind one or two individualistic ball hogging talents but all 4 of them? Not for me.

Nah :lol:. I'm fairly certain it's not just me with these views.
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While I do think Ibrahimovic is no longer the force he used to be for Team Theon, it's far-fetched to say his team won't work. He has a formidable midfield, very much the sort of support cast that would make that sort of frontline work. It wouldn't be as great as the sum of parts, and I would prefer other strikers ahead of Ibra (in fact, I would play Skizzo's Müller in the middle ahead of Ibra), but you can't argue with Goofy and Robben being the best wide options in this draft.

He can hit you wiith flair or speed, his midfield will roast yours (as everyone knows, I massively rate Schweinsteiger, so much so I was picking him to start all the way to finals in all-time/decade drafts before he even won the WC)... and the core of his defence is immense. It's amazing Raul feckin' Albiol is still there, but his team carries him, no probs. If anything, it is proof you don't need a Galáctico XI ;)

Theon won it the moment he got Vidic and Thiago as upgrades for whatever shite he was sporting to begin with (Kolo-Koscielny iirc). The time to beat him was up to that, not after.
 
I feel sorry for @Skizzo and @Joga Bonito ... I mean the effort the latter has put into this draft considering he is an AM has been nothing short of remarkable. More essays on behalf of someone else than you do when you're on your on - cracking effort but this match is deservedly one of the most one sided in draft history.

There is a huge gulf in class between the two sides here.
 
Haven't had a chance to look at his until now.

Theon's got it in the bag, obviously - and I have to say rightly so. There isn't anything horribly wrong with either team, given what they've both gone for, but there's a difference in sheer, brutal quality - almost - across the board for me.

This is most clearly visible in the attacking trios. Skizzo's three is nothing short of brilliant in most contexts, and I buy most of his arguments on behalf of his attackers too. But it fails to become a matter of significance, as they say. Theon's trio is on a different level for me - it can't be ignored. Skizzo would've had to compensate for this discrepancy in other areas - but he simply doesn't. Midfield is much closer, certainly, and the back fours are debatable in more ways than one - but Theon's is solid, very solid * defensively - and with his attacking prowess, the potential stick you could give him for Albiol doesn't really seem relevant.

* In a modern, not least a present context, this is exceptionally solid, in fact.
 
Just imho, adding Ronaldinho and Suarez, to replace Ribbery/Iniesta and Lewandowski would make this game a lot closer.

Suarez
Ronaldinho ------------ Muller--
Iniesta

Cambiasso ---- Kroos/Keita​
 
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