The Manchester Title Race

It's of course way too early to be absolutely sure about anything. They do have the best team though, that much is clear to me.

There might be an element of the mental challenge being too much to handle for them, let's see about that. First and foremost, we need to get our attacking football going again.
 
marjen said:
Yeah, that wasn't my point, more the fact that in Europe they've not looked as assured as in the league. Getting into the rythm of european football is an excercise in gaining experience IMO, most teams struggle in their first attempt at European football.
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That's just media crap (individually all their players and manager are very experienced) - the big difference is that they've been playing good teams.
 
peterstorey said:
That's just media crap (individually all their players and manager are very experienced) - the big difference is that they've been playing good teams.
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I hope you're right, Pete, I really do. They dispatched us with some ease though.
 
peterstorey said:
That's just media crap (individually all their players and manager are very experienced) - the big difference is that they've been playing good teams.
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So they've been crap then right ?

Fk me mate when you have an agenda you sure as hell stick to it like shit.

They've been better than anybody this season, by a distance and if you can't see or admit that, then God knows what you're looking at.

They may still fk it up, they've not been there before as a club and they may bottle it spectacularly like we've done two or three times in recent times

Right now though, looking at their mentallity (which I know you have often said is meaningless) they look nailed on to me more than any side since Mourinhio's Chelsea
 
They have proved that you can keep lumping good players into a team and eventually get quick results. I have to admit I thought they were going to struggle because they haven't exactly had a settled first XI over the past few seasons with the financial avalanche / revolving door policy, and had another influx of stars this summer. Whereas most successful managers (the ones without unlimited financial means) try to build a settled side over time and develop their players together as a team, Mancini has proved if you keep adding in top players, eventually they can win games just by the fact there is so much quality in the XI, regardless of how long they have played together. Shame about the side-effect of football being ruined in order to achieve this
 
Inspectah deck said:
With one man advantage.
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Quite. People are quick to forget how dominant we were for the first half hour of that match.

Take yourself back to half time... much as the final result makes it hard to recall, the general feeling was "OK, they've snatched a goal totally against the run of play, but we're the better team, we've been here plenty of times, and if we just keep doing what we're doing we should turn this round".

Similar story with the cup semi-final last season, actually.
 
marjen said:
I hope you're right, Pete, I really do. They dispatched us with some ease though.
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That match was not an indicator of how we stand up to them. Just like the 8-2 isnt really the difference between us and Arsenal. Those are just 1 off freal games. The 1st half was very even in the derby with us slightly the better team imo. City are really good this season, no doubt. But, they are far from certs for any trophy as yet. Good as they are, not getting through the CL group stages might be disastrous for them i feel. Europa league isnt the best cup to be in when you have title ambitions.
 
Anybody know the stat that was quote (on MOTD?) about City's start to the season.

I think it was that it had been matched three times before in teh top flight, but only one of those teams went on to win the title...?
 
Spurs won 11 from 12 and won the league in 1961. Both Man Utd 1986 and Liverpool 1991 blew it after the same start.
 
Jopub said:
So they've been crap then right ?

Fk me mate when you have an agenda you sure as hell stick to it like shit.
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I didn't say they were crap nor do I have an agenda, I just watch games of football. Last three I've seen:

Well beaten by Napoli could have been more but for Hart.

Lucky to get a point at Liverpool on the balance of play/chances.

League Cup at Arsenal played a strong team against kids and were fortunate to win (underwheming efforts from Nasri, Dzeko, Kolarov, De Jong, Johnson and others.
 
Sunny Jim said:
TBH i expect us to drop only two points (Arsenal away) from these fixtures.
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Really?

Wolves is always a very very tough game for us even at OT, Fulham away likewise. QPR sandwiched in the middle is a bit of an unknown but I can remember us not fairing too well at Loftus Road when Fulham were playing there

In terms of City's fixtures I cant see Chelsea losing another big game at Stamford Bridge, they may not be convincing at the moment but another defeat at home to another title challenger will surely mean the end of AVB. As for Arsenal at home who knows Arsenal are just as likely to be battered 5-0 as they are actually going there and winning imo
 
charlenefan said:
Really?

Wolves is always a very very tough game for us even at OT, Fulham away likewise. QPR sandwiched in the middle is a bit of an unknown but I can remember us not fairing too well at Loftus Road when Fulham were playing there

In terms of City's fixtures I cant see Chelsea losing another big game at Stamford Bridge, they may not be convincing at the moment but another defeat at home to another title challenger will surely mean the end of AVB. As for Arsenal at home who knows Arsenal are just as likely to be battered 5-0 as they are actually going there and winning imo
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I do agree with that we will have some tricky away fixtures, those enlisted by you (Wolves, Fulham QPR) will be very hard. But I think we will try to emulate the 2008/2009 form. We will get a series of dull 1-0's which is good enough form me.
 
For those mentioning Spurs as possible challengers I think like City they've been very fortunate with their fixtures in fact look at the fixtures both have had....

City

Code: 
[B]Man City	4 - 0	Swansea[/B]
[B]Bolton 	        2 - 3	Man City[/B]	
Tottenham       1 - 5	Man City
[B]Man City	3 - 0	Wigan[/B]
[B]Fulham 	        2 - 2	Man City[/B]
Man City	2 - 0	Everton
[B]Blackburn 	0 - 4	Man City
Man City	4 - 1	Aston Villa[/B]
Man Utd 	1 - 6	Man City
[B]Man City	3 - 1	Wolverhampton
QPR 	        2 - 3	Man Man 
Man City	3 - 1	Newcastle[/B]
Liverpool 	1 - 1	Man City
[B]Man City	5 - 1	Norwich[/B]

Spurs

Code: 
Man Utd 	3 - 0	Tottenham
Tottenham	1 - 5	Man City
[B]Wolverhampton 	0 - 2	Tottenham[/B]
Tottenham	4 - 0	Liverpool
[B]Wigan 	        1 - 2	Tottenham[/B]
Tottenham	2 - 1	Arsenal
Newcastle 	2 - 2	Tottenham
[B]Blackburn 	1 - 2	Tottenham	
Tottenham	3 - 1	QPR 	
Fulham 	        1 - 3	Tottenham
Tottenham	2 - 0	Aston Villa
West Brom 	1 - 3	Tottenham
Tottenham	3 - 0	Bolton[/B]

The games in bold are what I deem to be easy fixture for that team, for City then after every tough game they've had at least one very favourable game giving them a real chance of building momentum back up should they have dropped points (that's not to take away from the very good results they got against us and Spurs)

Look at that run for Tottenham in recent weeks though, it's really no wonder they've climbed the table the way they have us on the other hand where have our easy batch of fixtures been?

Code: 
[B]West Brom       1 - 2	Man Utd[/B]
[B]Man Utd         3 - 0	Tottenham[/B]
[B]Man Utd	        8 - 2	Arsenal
Bolton 	        0 - 5	Man Utd[/B]
Man Utd	        3 - 1	Chelsea
Stoke 	        1 - 1	Man Utd
[B]Man Utd	        2 - 0	Norwich[/B]
Liverpool 	1 - 1	Man Utd
Man Utd	        1 - 6	Man City
Everton 	0 - 1	Man Utd
[B]Man Utd	        1 - 0	Sunderland[/B]
[B]Swansea 	0 - 1	Man Utd[/B]
[B]Man Utd	        1 - 1	Newcastle[/B]
Aston Villa     0 - 1	Man Utd

Now tbh I feel classing Spurs and Arsenal at home as favourable games for United is being generous and although we've had games like Sunderland at home which should be a guaranteed 3 points they always give us tough games of which there's very rarely more than 1 goal in it so not the type of game where we're likely to rack up 3 or more goals and then there's the unknown visit to unbeaten Swansea which was by no means a gimmie

So in all our most favourable run of games was indeed at the start of the season and since then we've not be helped by having say one easy game followed by two or three tougher ones. Spurs on the other hand had a tough start but have now had 6 games on the spin which has helped them rise up the table. City have just had a very nice fixture list altogether
 
City are clear favourite, no doubt about that. We will give them a tough time in the run in though.
 
Comparison of this season with last season....

Swansea = West Ham
Norwich = Blackpool
QPR = Birmingham

this season/last season

Man City
v Swansea (H) 3/3
v Bolton (A) 3/3
v Tottenham (A) 3/1
v Wigan (H) 3/3
v Fulham (A) 1/3
v Everton (H) 3/0
v Blackburn (A) 3/3
v Aston Villa (H) 3/3
v Man Utd (A) 3/0
v Wolverhampton (H) 3/3
v QPR (A) 3/1
v Newcastle (H) 3/3
v Liverpool (A) 1/0
v Norwich (H) 3/3
v Chelsea (A) 0/0
v Arsenal (H) 3/0
v Stoke (H) 3/3

So City are up 12 points on the corresponding fixtures last season

Man Utd
v West Brom (A) 3/3
v Tottenham (H) 3/3
v Arsenal (H) 3/3
v Bolton (A) 3/1
v Chelsea (H) 3/3
v Stoke (A) 1/3
v Norwich (H) 3/3
v Liverpool (A) 1/0
v Man City (H) 0/3
v Everton (A) 3/1
v Sunderland (H) 3/3
v Swansea (A) 3/3
v Newcastle (H) 1/3
v Aston Villa (A) 3/1
v Wolves (H) 3/3
v QPR (A) 3/1
v Fulham (A) 3/1

We're evened out as whilst we've picked up 2 extra points at Bolton, Everton & Villa and an extra point at Liverpool we've dropped 2 points at Stoke dropped 2 points at home to Newcastle and obviously 3 at home to City.

EDIT: We're now up 4 points on last seasons corrosponding fixtures following the games against Wolves, QPR & Fulham
 
People are dismissing City's fixtures list so far as if winning almost every game and scoring tons of goals while doing it is normal. It's terrific form. Plus, no matter what you say about the opposition's level at the time, sending offs and so on, they came out of White Hart Lane, Old Trafford and Anfield with 7 points. they're doing brilliantly and while they may drop the odd point in their bigger matches, if they continue to beat the rest so regualrly it would be hard to get the amount of points needed to catch them.
 
4 out of the 5 teams we haven't played yet are in the bottom 6. The half way point might be a better time to assess the situation.
 
Tottenham have had Newcastle, Arsenal, Liverpool, City and Us but have had favourable fixtures? That only leaves Chelsea of the top 7.
 
peterstorey said:
I thought 7 games, one live, was quite a lot. How many have you seen?
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And 5 of them are against European opposition, something EVERY English team has struggled with when a period of domination begins.

When Arsenal went the season unbeaten they were awful in Europe, as were United in the earlier periods of the 90s.

So out of all their games they've had one real test against Liverpool which they sneaked a draw out of. An away game at Anfield and you think thats evidence they are not as good as everyones saying.

Loathe though I am to say it, this City team is as good as any team I've seen in the last 10 years and the reality is they will get better and better.
 
Pete's got a point in that City have struggled against nearly all the decent teams they've played this season, the exceptions being us imploding (after they scored against the run of play) and a very poor Spurs effort.
 
rcoobc said:
Tottenham have had Newcastle, Arsenal, Liverpool, City and Us but have had favourable fixtures? That only leaves Chelsea of the top 7.
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Actually that's not what I said whatsoever
 
rcoobc said:
?.
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charlenefan said:
Look at that run for Tottenham in recent weeks though, it's really no wonder they've climbed the table the way they have us on the other hand where have our easy batch of fixtures been?

Spurs on the other hand had a tough start but have now had 6 games on the spin which has helped them rise up the table. City have just had a very nice fixture list altogether
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..
 
Stopping this E-fight, I agree, Spurs have had easy games in recent weeks which have helped them climb the table. But the reason they have had all these easy fixtures is because they played Newcastle, Arsenal, Liverpool, City and Us already. Aside from Chelsea, there is no one left for them to be fearful of until the second half of the season. They played their hard games and now they have their easy ones.

I don't see how grouping easy and difficult games together is "fortunate". Look at Newcastle, 1 lucky point from the last 3 games. Ideally you would probably want a hard game followed by an easy one, followed by a hard one. At least if you didn't have Europe to worry about too.
 
By January 1st we'll be top of the league.

My words.... mark them.
 
its all about the squad.

City have the strongest.....and they are top atm...

they have to be clear favourites. But United have the experience of having won the title many times.

That is the advantage we have...I'd rather be in City's position..

The winter months will really test the squads...
 
Man City
12 December - Chelsea away (1 point)
18 December - Arsenal home (1 point)
21 December - Stoke home (1 point)
26 December - West Brom away (3 points)
1 January - Sunderland away (1 point)

Games Played 19 Points 45

Man Utd
10 December - Wolves home (3 points)
18 December - QPR away (3 points)
21 December - Fulham away (1 point)
26 December - Wigan home (3 points)
31 December - Blackburn home (3 points)

Games Played 19 46




Bias? lolwut?
 
:lol: no chance they'll draw at home to Stoke, they'll probably beat Sunderland away as well
 
We'll see :wenger:

I suppose the only serious point I'm trying to make is we'll close the gap this month.
 
rcoobc said:
Stopping this E-fight, I agree, Spurs have had easy games in recent weeks which have helped them climb the table. But the reason they have had all these easy fixtures is because they played Newcastle, Arsenal, Liverpool, City and Us already. Aside from Chelsea, there is no one left for them to be fearful of until the second half of the season. They played their hard games and now they have their easy ones.

I don't see how grouping easy and difficult games together is "fortunate". Look at Newcastle, 1 lucky point from the last 3 games. Ideally you would probably want a hard game followed by an easy one, followed by a hard one. At least if you didn't have Europe to worry about too.
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You're right in that it can catch up with you eventually, but you're neglecting other factors like the momentum a team gets from a set of win-able fixtures.

Also, I think the poster you replied to was just suggesting why Spurs' recent amazing run should be taken within the context of the fixtures they've played.
 
Some of you are utter fannies, City are looking unbeatable at the moment in the league but things can change so quickly. To concede the league in early December, even if you have looked quite poor this season, is ridiculous. They will falter at some point this season, they will lose at some point, they will start feeling the pressure. Isn't this your best start to a league season for years?

I make them favourites for the title, probably clear favourites. But it certainly is not won quite yet. And the two thrashings they handed both of us had clear circumstances behind them, as impressive as both of them still were.

Still don't see how our run has been easy to be honest. We've played more games away then home, played every other member of the top 7 other than Chelsea. The Hawthorns, Craven Cottage and Molineux being described as easy grounds is baffling, considering how shit we've done at those grounds in recent history.

Frankly, I couldn't give too much of a shit about the games against 'better opposition' in the league. Even assuming that we're only the sixth best team in the league, that leaves 28 games in which we should be looking to pick up maximum points. I know thats obviously not how it works but its the games against the riff-raff of the league that decides things. We'd have comfortably finished in the top 4 last season if we'd had an idea of how to do exactly that. When you pick up 11 out of a possible 30 points against the bottom 5 clubs, you're already massively disadvantaging yourself.
 
africanspur said:
Some of you are utter fannies, City are looking unbeatable at the moment in the league but things can change so quickly. To concede the league in early December, even if you have looked quite poor this season, is ridiculous. They will falter at some point this season, they will lose at some point, they will start feeling the pressure. Isn't this your best start to a league season for years?
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Personally, I think a lot of people just want to reconcile themselves to the thought of City lifting the trophy if/when it does eventually happen.

Still don't see how our run has been easy to be honest. We've played more games away then home, played every other member of the top 7 other than Chelsea. The Hawthorns, Craven Cottage and Molineux being described as easy grounds is baffling, considering how shit we've done at those grounds in recent history.
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I agree, your run has not been easy, but you've collected 31 points from 33 and it's pretty fair/realistic to expect this record to level out as the season progresses.
 
Whats the point of this post. Why oh why do we always get carried away. Lets just focus on our games and win our games. This crystal ball gazing stuff is rubbish.

I think everyone agrees that in a way it is good that Manchester City are playing some good football. Manchester United have been in many battles before and come out on top. I am focussed on Manchester United and couldnt care less what someone else was doing.
 
City have been lucky with injuries so far, and us rather unlucky. But they're a good team these days, no doubt.

Rather disheartening to see Reds calling the league for City, though. Long season.
 
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