The Make A Fecking Sub Ole Thread

Grande said:
I think you’ve got a point there with frustration. One thing is certain - probabilitywise, any manager who tends to make early substitutions has a much better chance at getting good stats for subs with goals/assists - as his subs have more playing time to acheive it. So when Ole’s subs produce more than Klopps and Peps subs, either it’s an emotional fallacy that he actually waits longer with substitutions, or his stats are even more impressive, to the point of genius-like.

Interestingly enough, Ole (80 subs - 15 goals/assists) makes less substitutions than Klopp (86 - 12) in second and 8 of the 9 other top ten managers on the list. Only Hodgson (78 - 7) makes less subs, and gets a lot less output for it.

Mourinho and Arteta has made 91 and 93 substitutions so far, getting a measly return of 5 and 4 g/a.

Dean Smith (69) and Pep (64) makes less subs than Ole, getting respectively 5 and 4 g/a from their subs. From Guardiola, with that squad depth and his system, that’s 80% as many subs as Ole, with slightly above 25% as many goals and assists - which is frankly shocking.
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Think it's a case of both, especially when you start looking at the total number of subs made.
Amazing how low Jose is, considering he made the 3rd highest number of subs, and we all know how he likes a half time sub.

Pep probably only subs to rest players, he hasn't had to make game changing subs all that often.

P.s.
Just saw your edit, great minds think alike :)

1) Ole Gunnar Solskjaer (Manchester United) – 15 goals scored or assisted by subs
Games: 31
Substitutions made: 80
Goals scored by subs: 9
Assists by subs: 6

2) Jurgen Klopp (Liverpool) – 12 goals
Games: 31
Substitutions made: 86
Goals scored by subs: 6
Assists by subs: 6

13) Jose Mourinho (Tottenham) – 5 goals
Games: 31
Substitutions made: 91
Goals scored by subs: 3
Assists by subs: 2

17) Pep Guardiola (Manchester City) – 4 goals
Games: 32
Substitutions made: 64
Goals scored by subs: 1
Assists by subs: 3
 
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ThreeCorners said:
Think it's a case of both, especially when you start looking at the total number of subs made.
Amazing how low Jose is, considering he made the 3rd highest number of subs, and we all know how he likes a half time sub.

Pep probably only subs to rest players, he hasn't had to make game changing subs all that often.

P.s.
Just saw your edit, great minds think alike :)

1) Ole Gunnar Solskjaer (Manchester United) – 15 goals scored or assisted by subs
Games: 31
Substitutions made: 80
Goals scored by subs: 9
Assists by subs: 6

2) Jurgen Klopp (Liverpool) – 12 goals
Games: 31
Substitutions made: 86
Goals scored by subs: 6
Assists by subs: 6

13) Jose Mourinho (Tottenham) – 5 goals
Games: 31
Substitutions made: 91
Goals scored by subs: 3
Assists by subs: 2

17) Pep Guardiola (Manchester City) – 4 goals
Games: 32
Substitutions made: 64
Goals scored by subs: 1
Assists by subs: 3
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True that ;)

I get your point with City more often leading comfortably, and add to that our tendency to come from behind. On the other side of that is of course that we wouldn’t be so good at coming from behind if Ole wasn’t so good at in-game management/substitutions.

Still, the difference between Ole and Pep (a goal/assist for every fifth sub vs a goal/assist for every sixteenth sub) is so huge that it’s not accounted for so easily. Particularily when you know that City has Agüero, Jesus, Sterling, Foden, Silva, Mahrez to chose from for their front positions.
 
Norwegian TV showed an overview today that is highly pertinent to this discussion: United has more goals and assists from subs this season than any other team in the PL, with 14. Liverpool second with 11. So they're doing something right there.
 
I think Ole is pretty good with subs, and also with changing it in games when we are being outplayed. He sometimes get his tactics and selection a bit wrong (like most) but seems humble enough to recognise and change it. Contrast with Mourinho, in particular, who would be quick to haul players off and maybe also to change systems, but usually at the cost of clearly scapegoating players for his own mistakes.

Like all fans, there are times when I am so keen to see more of young talents like Amad, or players like VdB who we know has not yet shown his best football.for us, that it blurs my judgement of what to do in specific matches. Ole is pretty good at judging it all.
 
Ole judged his subs right today. Fred was being targeted and they changed the formation and swapped him out for Cavani. Meant Marcus was on the left and he and Shaw were outstanding together.
 
So it’s 10 goals and 7 assists from subs this season. Given that a sub plays on average less than a third of a game, and there are maximum three subs a game in the league, that’s about as good as Marcus Rashford has done (10/8).

Even more impressive today, was that the half time switch with Fred-Cavani Resulted in Pogba and Rashford changing positions, meaning their assists as well came after changing their positions.
 
Pogba and Cavani on will get us this win for sure. The game is pretty much a dead rubber though so I'm not that arsed.
 
Keeping James on the pitch coming up to the 70th minute with Pogba on the bench is criminal. He's been struggling all game.
 
Shark said:
Keeping James on the pitch coming up to the 70th minute with Pogba on the bench is criminal. He's been struggling all game.
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Solskjaer knows Pogba’s fitness and condition better than anyone, and the game on Thursday is far more important. Not to mention we have Liverpool 3 days after then Roma again 4 days after that. This is clearly the least important match, so it makes sense to give Pogba less minutes.
 
how is james playing so much and donny rarely has a look in? I just don‘t get it. James must be one of the worst players in the PL and is still able to play 75 minutes for us. He can leave together with Ole at the end of the season
 
Toni Roncoroni said:
how is james playing so much and donny rarely has a look in? I just don‘t get it. James must be one of the worst players in the PL and is still able to play 75 minutes for us. He can leave together with Ole at the end of the season
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Why is Henderson playing instead of Donny?
 
Would.love if someone can sit him down and force him to explain why he leaves it so late.
One would almost think we aren't interested in winning the game. Fecking pissed.
 
Waited 15 minutes too long to send Pogba and Cavani on today. No reason for it
 
Ole didn't want to win today. He made change right away after first half against AC Milan and Burnley because he wanted to win but not today.
 
Cavani was obviously needed right after the half time. Weird that we waited too long to do anything in the game.
 
The United said:
Cavani was obviously needed right after the half time. Weird that we waited too long to do anything in the game.
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We have the biggest game of our season in 4 days time and you wanted us to bring on an already injury prone, aging, centre forward (and only currently fit we have) on for 45 minutes against a Leeds side who were chucking late challenges around like confetti? Why?
 
That was fecking infuriating. The game was going nowhere yet we didn't make a change until the 75th and then 85th minute.
 
Carl said:
Roma is the reason for it. And Liverpool 3 days later.
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Are they incapable of playing an extra 15 minutes? If anything the players who stunk up the majority of that game would need the additional rest
 
Ole is so predictable, first change always around the 75th minute, second one around 80-85th minute, and third if done at all always close to the 90th.

Works like a charm no matter the result he doesn't changes his approach.
 
It's disrespectful to Cavani to be bringing him on with only 5 minutes to play.
 
When he leaves it that late, he better hope Pogba and Cavani are at it from the very first second on Thursday, and the rest of them.

Just annoying, he does make plenty of early changes, its bollocks that he always leaves it late, but today just totally gives ammo to the meme.
 
Dobba said:
We have the biggest game of our season in 4 days time and you wanted us to bring on an already injury prone, aging, centre forward (and only currently fit we have) on for 45 minutes against a Leeds side who were chucking late challenges around like confetti? Why?
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You know players can injure any time right? The biggest game is always the game you are playing. You can rest any players you want and can still lose so-called next biggest game.

It is not like we were playing prime Man City. Could have had a win against Leeds and keep the spirit high. Unnecessary gambling and dropped points for that.
 
If the game is 0-0 and dead at 60 minutes, why does he think something different will happen in the next 15-20 minutes?
Carl said:
Roma is the reason for it. And Liverpool 3 days later.
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They've just had a week off. If anything, they could do with half hour so they aren't rusty for Roma
 
Oles been good with subs since he arrived. No idea why he took so long today though. Cavani and Pogba on the bench waiting... Priority is likely Thursday and tbh it felt like we were fine with a draw. Maybe at this point it's a case of we're pretty much locked into 2nd place, might as well not go crazy and focus on Europa League?
 
The United said:
You know players can injure any time right? The biggest game is always the game you are playing. You can rest any players you want and can still lose so-called next biggest game.

It is not like we were playing prime Man City. Could have had a win against Leeds and keep the spirit high. Unnecessary risk and dropping points.
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Of course they can. When a club are set up in a way where they get 19 fouls given against them (forgetting the feet they left in the dozen or so other times) maybe don't chuck the injury prone aging centre forward you'll be looking to get a goal from on Thursday, or the midfield player who has already missed vast chunks of the season through injury, on for 45 minutes.

The match was little more than a hurdle to get past as unscathed as possible before the priority game on Thursday.
 
those late subs are really annoying, today he had choices that could have come on at least after 60 min. I still wonder how Dan James an be playing let alone starting
 
The United said:
Cavani was obviously needed right after the half time. Weird that we waited too long to do anything in the game.
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We created some decent chances before the changes though. I can see why Ole didn't want to throw Pogba and Cavani against Leeds in that fouling mode.
 
I don't have much problems with the late subs today. This game was pointless, so he probably wanted to preserve Cavani and Pogba for EL. In this match and this match only, I won't complain.
 
Dobba said:
Of course they can. When a club are set up in a way where they get 19 fouls given against them (forgetting the feet they left in the dozen or so other times) maybe don't chuck the injury prone aging centre forward you'll be looking to get a goal from on Thursday, or the midfield player who has already missed vast chunks of the season through injury, on for 45 minutes.
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The point is if we want to save energy, don't sub them with 5 mins to go. It just didn't make sense whatsoever and it didn't help.

I would rather get max points against teams like Leeds so that we can relax after a few games later. Not much point resting now than having to play tight games at the end with possibly a final coming up.
 
I never have problem with not making change if our players are playing well and it's hard to find someone to sub off but today James was piss poor and didn't deserve 75 mins. Ole didn't want to win today unfortunately, he made early change vs Milan and Burnley but why today is different. His mind is just for Roma and he wants to win that.
 
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