The left-back market…

Have liked the look of Maatsen at Dortmund this year, 35m release clause is probably more than you want to spend on a LB though, and giving Chelsea any more money after last years charity donation for Mount would rankle
 
I think it’s certain that we need a left back. Shaw is just a proven injury prone, while we don’t know what’s going on with Malacia. I will push Shaw as backup LCB and LB and sign a starting left back.

Miguel Gutierrez is my pick.
  • Not injury prone
  • £30m release clause and still 22 years old
  • Has good tactical awareness
  • 180cm height
  • A ball playing left back who can play from the back.
  • Can play inverted full back.
 
McFred said:
Have liked the look of Maatsen at Dortmund this year, 35m release clause is probably more than you want to spend on a LB though, and giving Chelsea any more money after last years charity donation for Mount would rankle
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Haven't watched him much myself but I follow a good few Chelsea fanalysts and Maatsen is supposed to be really bad in the air. We already struggle really bad at set pieces so wouldn't really want another set piece weak link in the team to compound matters.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
Haven't watched him much myself but I follow a good few Chelsea fanalysts and Maatsen is supposed to be really bad in the air. We already struggle really bad at set pieces so wouldn't really want another set piece weak link in the team to compound matters.
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Can’t be as bad as AWB
 
Scholsey2004 said:
What about Leif Davis from Ipswich? 18 assists in the championship.
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A player I mentioned 50 times already. I think he would be great for the challenging LB spot. If we hire McKenna it makes too much sense.
 
Noise on Twitter about Frimpong tonight.

I know Dalot can cover LB but he’s way better at RB imo.
 
elmo said:
Can’t be as bad as AWB
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Literally twice as bad per fbref at percentage of aerial duels won. Also, he's a left back so my point was that if you have AWB on one side who is objectively bad in the air and Maatsen on the opposite side, it could be an absolute shitshow.
 
Bwuk said:
Noise on Twitter about Frimpong tonight.

I know Dalot can cover LB but he’s way better at RB imo.
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Massive misconception. He plays as a winger at leverkusen. At best plays wing back. Never plays flat back 4 style RB. If we are changing to wing backs with 3 at the back then sure.
 
Frimpong just doesn't convince me at all at RB. Think he could be a big flop. Looks slightly lightweight and can't really play build up football. Looked like a little ragdoll against Atalanta.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
Frimpong just doesn't convince me at all at RB. Think he could be a big flop. Looks slightly lightweight and can't really play build up football. Looked like a little ragdoll against Atalanta.
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Yeah, he's an attacking wing back/winger. Theres zero evidence he can perform as a right back in the Premier League. One of those links that you see that makes you really question the intelligence of the people running the club.
 
JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo said:
Massive misconception. He plays as a winger at leverkusen. At best plays wing back. Never plays flat back 4 style RB. If we are changing to wing backs with 3 at the back then sure.
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Hard to imagine we actually are moving to a wing-back system though with our squad. This one has never made any sense to me.
 
Scholsey2004 said:
Yeah, he's an attacking wing back/winger. Theres zero evidence he can perform as a right back in the Premier League. One of those links that you see that makes you really question the intelligence of the people running the club.
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He's also tiny so could get exposed at the back post repeatedly. The PL demands physicality along with talent.
 
Scholsey2004 said:
Yeah, he's an attacking wing back/winger. Theres zero evidence he can perform as a right back in the Premier League. One of those links that you see that makes you really question the intelligence of the people running the club.
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Well, the best fullbacks in the past decade or so have mostly been excellent offensively and decent, mediocre to downright liabilities defensively.

Cancelo, Hakimi, Trent Alexander Arnold, Marcelo, Alves, Lahm, Carvajal, Alba, Azpelicueta, Walker

Out of these guys, how many are actually top level "defenders", to me only Azpi and Lahm. Walker gets an honourable mention as having pretty mediocre defensive positioning and capabilities but his sheer athleticism takes him close. Everyone else ranges from "does a decent job" to "bit of a liability" defensively.
 
sparx99 said:
He's also tiny so could get exposed at the back post repeatedly. The PL demands physicality along with talent.
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This is a bit of an exaggeration.

Some of the greatest fullbacks since the 00's were tiny. Lahm, who played in a very physical Bundesliga was quite literally 1.7m, smaller than Frimpong.

TAA is only 2cm taller than Frimpong and regarded as the most consistent fullback in the prem (G.Nev) is only 5ft 10. This physicality for a fullback is overstated.

Zabaleta is another one who is only 1.76.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
Well, the best fullbacks in the past decade or so have mostly been excellent offensively and decent, mediocre to downright liabilities defensively.

Cancelo, Hakimi, Trent Alexander Arnold, Marcelo, Alves, Lahm, Carvajal, Alba, Azpelicueta, Walker

Out of these guys, how many are actually top level "defenders", to me only Azpi and Lahm. Walker gets an honourable mention as having pretty mediocre defensive positioning and capabilities but his sheer athleticism takes him close. Everyone else ranges from "does a decent job" to "bit of a liability" defensively.
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Yeah, but the guys youve listed have played a lot of football at right back. Theres very little track record with Frimpong to show if he can play there one way or the other. Its the same scattergun crap that we've been doing for a long time now.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
This is a bit of an exaggeration.

Some of the greatest fullbacks since the 00's were tiny. Lahm, who played in a very physical Bundesliga was quite literally 1.7m, smaller than Frimpong.

TAA is only 2cm taller than Frimpong and regarded as the most consistent fullback in the prem (G.Nev) is only 5ft 10. This physicality for a fullback is overstated.

Zabaleta is another one who is only 1.76.
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Sure but you still have to factor it into your overall squad building. Lining up with Malacia and Frimpong because Dalot & Shaw are injured leaves you somewhat exposed especially with Martinez already small for a CB. Add in Mainoo playing DM and it’s a small group.

I also thought he was closer to Lamptey to be honest!
 
sparx99 said:
Sure but you still have to factor it into your overall squad building. Lining up with Malacia and Frimpong because Dalot & Shaw are injured leaves you somewhat exposed especially with Martinez already small for a CB. Add in Mainoo playing DM and it’s a small group.

I also thought he was closer to Lamptey to be honest!
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Bloody hell thats a small group when you think about it
 
JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo said:
Bloody hell thats a small group when you think about it
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I think it’s fine provided the tactics and team structure is held properly.

Peak Barcelona played a back line of Alba, pique, mascherano and alves

1.7, pique, 1,76 and 1.71 respectively.

In front of them sat xavi and iniesta, both of whom are smaller than Mainoo.

even victor valdes was small for a gk.

The only two tall players in that Barca team were busquets and pique. Yet they still crushed everyone they encountered because their technical ability and setup more than compensated
 
AfonsoAlves said:
I think it’s fine provided the tactics and team structure is held properly.

Peak Barcelona played a back line of Alba, pique, mascherano and alves

1.7, pique, 1,76 and 1.71 respectively.

In front of them sat xavi and iniesta, both of whom are smaller than Mainoo.

even victor valdes was small for a gk.

The only two tall players in that Barca team were busquets and pique. Yet they still crushed everyone they encountered because their technical ability and setup more than compensated
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Tactics and structure is this teams issue. I'm not as heightest as many on here, but it helps to be competitive physically when you're being tactically beaten
 
AfonsoAlves said:
I think it’s fine provided the tactics and team structure is held properly.

Peak Barcelona played a back line of Alba, pique, mascherano and alves

1.7, pique, 1,76 and 1.71 respectively.

In front of them sat xavi and iniesta, both of whom are smaller than Mainoo.

even victor valdes was small for a gk.

The only two tall players in that Barca team were busquets and pique. Yet they still crushed everyone they encountered because their technical ability and setup more than compensated
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Weghorst was 8ft tall and couldn’t win a header
 
Frimpong played in a back 4 at Celtic, and he initially played in a back 4 at Leverkusen.
 
Lu Tze said:
Would anyone take Regulion back on the cheap as LB cover?
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No, he wasn't good even as a stop gap solution

In other news, I don't understand people who think bringing Olise is more important than getting quality LB. We havent had LB all season. Malacia is clearly finished, Luke Shaw played one and half game and his injury proneness wont get any better. Meanwhile, good or bad, we have mutiple wingers in Olise's position. I don't mind buying Olise, mostly because Anthony hasn't worked out, but LB is a huge priority
 
Scholsey2004 said:
Yeah, but the guys youve listed have played a lot of football at right back. Theres very little track record with Frimpong to show if he can play there one way or the other. Its the same scattergun crap that we've been doing for a long time now.
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He played right back at celtic..
 
AfonsoAlves said:
I think it’s fine provided the tactics and team structure is held properly.

Peak Barcelona played a back line of Alba, pique, mascherano and alves

1.7, pique, 1,76 and 1.71 respectively.

In front of them sat xavi and iniesta, both of whom are smaller than Mainoo.

even victor valdes was small for a gk.

The only two tall players in that Barca team were busquets and pique. Yet they still crushed everyone they encountered because their technical ability and setup more than compensated
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That’s arguably the most technically gifted team of all time though. We’ve already been poor at defending set pieces in recent seasons.

I’m not saying we can’t sign any shorter players but we need to be careful of the mix. City have in recent seasons combined technical ability with physicality. Their spine of Dias, Rodri, Haaland coupled with playing a CB at LB and then pace of Walker is a big part of why Foden, De Bruyne and Silva flourish.
 
Scholsey2004 said:
Yeah, but the guys youve listed have played a lot of football at right back. Theres very little track record with Frimpong to show if he can play there one way or the other. Its the same scattergun crap that we've been doing for a long time now.
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Frimpong hasn’t played wing-back his whole career. He was a RB at Celtic.
 
Antonee Robinson still my pick. Premiership proven, runs all day and is durable, and ready for the step up. Don't think Shaw has the athleticism for full back week in week out anymore but he could cover left back and Licha at left centre back for couple of years until Amass is hopefully ready. Still hopefully have Malacia around and Dalot in emergency (need him at right back)
 
How about Alfie Doughty?

Got a lot of assists this season, for a rubbish team.

Looks like he has good defensive awareness too and height.

Homegrown and should be a decent price.
 
Rozay said:
And at Bayer? Have they played with wing-backs for the last 4 years? Can’t recall but I don’t think they have.
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he played as a RM at Leverkusen, so even further away from being a RB.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
Well, the best fullbacks in the past decade or so have mostly been excellent offensively and decent, mediocre to downright liabilities defensively.

Cancelo, Hakimi, Trent Alexander Arnold, Marcelo, Alves, Lahm, Carvajal, Alba, Azpelicueta, Walker

Out of these guys, how many are actually top level "defenders", to me only Azpi and Lahm. Walker gets an honourable mention as having pretty mediocre defensive positioning and capabilities but his sheer athleticism takes him close. Everyone else ranges from "does a decent job" to "bit of a liability" defensively.
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1: Very good to good
Lahm, Azpelicueta, Carvajal

2: Good
Walker, Alves, Alba, Marcelo, Hakimi

3: Poor
Cancelo, Alexander Arnold

It's not concrete of course as I may be over or under generous with some in the 1 or 2 range. The actual category isn't that important for me but the 3 tier distinctions.

From what little I've seen, Frimpong may be somewhere in between 2 and 3 as a RB/wing back. If he's a '3', that's really bad and if he's a '2' then that's more than fine but either way the team he'll play for will have to accommodate his lack of height and his very attacking nature. So whilst it's true we can offset this with his other qualities, I think if they fall below the 2 or at the 3 mark, then you'd got to be very careful about the set up.

I wouldn't really lump Lahm, Azpelicueta, Walker and then say 'well yeah all other full backs are around that kind of defensive range and they work for their teams, so Frimpong can be easily managed too' if he's closer to the 3 range. It could be an Alexander Arnold situation at Liverpool, except they're been much more successful and organised than a team like ours. So rather than being a good fix or solution, it could be a side-step issue and create unbalance.
 
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criticalanalysis said:
1: Very good to good
Lahm, Azpelicueta, Carvajal

2: Good
Walker, Alves, Alba, Marcelo, Hakimi

3: Poor
Cancelo, Alexander Arnold

It's not concrete of course as I may be over or under generous with some in the 1 or 2 range. The actual category isn't that important for me but the 3 tier distinctions.

From what little I've seen, Frimpong may be somewhere in between 2 and 3 as a RB/wing back. If he's a '3', that's really bad and if he's a '2' then that's more than fine but either way the team he'll play for will have to accommodate his lack of height and his very attacking nature. So whilst it's true we can offset this with his other qualities, I think if they fall below the 2 or at the 3 mark, then you'd got to be very careful about the set up.

I wouldn't really lump Lahm, Azpelicueta, Walker and then say 'well yeah all other full backs are around that kind of defensive range and they work for their teams, so Frimpong can be easily managed too' if he's closer to the 3 range. It could be an Alexander Arnold situation at Liverpool, except they're been much more successful and organised than a team like ours. So rather than being a good fix or solution, it could be a side-step issue and create unbalance.
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This might be a hot take, but I don't think Carvajal is all that defensively. He was very much protected by peak Modric/Casemiro, who could ultimate engines that would cover for Carvajal. nowadays he is covered by engines like Tchouameni, Bellingham and Rodrygo (who surprisingly works super hard) so he's rarely exposed.

Alves, Alba and Marcelo do not belong in the same line of quality as Walker. Walker could legitimately be a top class defender on his own merits even without his attacking abilities, such is his physicality. Walker can also play CB due to those qualities. Alves and Alba cannot.

Hakimi is hard to tell because he plays in such a dominant team in their respective leagues.
 
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