Gaming The Last of Us Part II (PS4)
- Thread starter Neelu
- Start date
I want to know how Ellie hasn't developed a drug addiction with all the pills she pops to upgrade herself.
https://www.polygon.com/2020/6/30/2...hty-dog-vice-review-leak-sony-ps4-playstation
Baker comes across as a twat there. Not the first time apparently too.
The conspiracy theory is they have to match or better the first game's metacritic score (95) for bonuses to kick in. I remember Bethesda wormed out of giving employees bonuses because one of their games missed the metacritic target by one percent.
Surely bonuses would be based on sales targets, no? Metascore would be a bizarre criterion.
There is history with Jason and Neil. Jason leaked how ND are crunching which quite frankly everyone do in industry. If you think how companies get you shiny new phones in 6 months then you would know how crunching is the norm and not how Jason put it " Naughty Dog problem".
Vice review was the worst one out there. Sony only contacted them and there is not even a mention of what was discussed apart from disagreement. The journalist just took Sony and Naughty dog and got the attention which was originally intended. Polygon and Skillup also gave them bad review but they weren't contacted.
Also Sony is not the only company which follows with reviewers. There is nothing wrong in following up. If journalist was intimidated, then it's wrong. But all that journalist mentioned was they contacted, which could be absolutely anything. Naughty dog are easy target just like Rockstar to get attention
Calm down, very defensive of Sony or anything naughty dog related aren’t you?
Rockstar have changed their attitude due the pressure by the gaming media. They have made changes.
https://kotaku.com/18-months-after-red-dead-redemption-2-rockstar-has-mad-1842880524
Naughty Dog staff were doing crunch and weren’t even getting paid overtime.
I know the history between Jason and Neil. Having a go at Jason because he’s calling out Naughty Dog or any other company is ridiculous from you. And no he hasn’t just called out Naughty Dog over it. He’s called out several companies. Yeah IPhones are made in shitty work conditions that doesn’t make it alright. Everyone can improve. Rockstar have improved from pressure, so can other companies. What’s your problem with that? Unless you a blind fanboy you’d want every gaming company to improve their working conditions.
Also can’t believe you are defending a company contacting a reviewer over reviews. It’s their opinion. Companies shouldn’t be contacting them unless they gave mis-information out. And why was the Vice review the worst out the lot? Because you didn’t agree with it? You are as bad as that Geko. Reviews are opinion pieces, try not to get worked up over them.
Also Jason just had to say video games are too long and then Baker comes out with the biggest overreaction ever. Opinions. People are allowed them.
Having worked in the industry and still with plenty of friends in it, I can outright say feck you if you think crunchtime is fair.
You wouldn't be happy in your own job having to do ridiculous hours for no extra pay just because a bunch of know-nothings decided this was the amount of time you had to do a project, then kept changing the scope, all whilst happily planning to feck you off if it went wrong. (Btw Sony are up there in the cnut stakes on suddenly shutting down teams for no good reason, ask the Wipeout boys).
People think it's such a dream job making games for a living, and yeah it used to be great. But just like any other job, it's hijacked by money men who don't give a feck about you and just expect crunch time as part of the job because, well, it's always been the way innit.
You wouldn't be happy in your own job having to do ridiculous hours for no extra pay just because a bunch of know-nothings decided this was the amount of time you had to do a project, then kept changing the scope, all whilst happily planning to feck you off if it went wrong. (Btw Sony are up there in the cnut stakes on suddenly shutting down teams for no good reason, ask the Wipeout boys).
People think it's such a dream job making games for a living, and yeah it used to be great. But just like any other job, it's hijacked by money men who don't give a feck about you and just expect crunch time as part of the job because, well, it's always been the way innit.
I am not defending anyone. You just posted a tweet next to no context. Jason has been bullying one reviewer for having an opinion of comparing the game with a movie. Using every opportunity to shit on Naught Dog so recently Neil and Cory ( Santa Monica Studio) finally responded. That context was missing.
Vice review was negative interms of criticism. Not that I am accusing them of bias. I don't know why you got so angry ( maybe I didn't explain it well). I didn't say I didn't like their review. Sony has always followed up with reviewers, and this isnt such a big deal. Microsoft,EA and other big companies have done the same. Microsoft even reneged on deal after the guy they hired for fair review didn't write the review they wanted.
Also I don't think Crunching is fair. But the way it has been mentioned as if it is exclusive problem to Naughty Dog is wrong. This is mostly the perception if you read gaming forums out there after Jason article. I work at one of the leading Mobile Processor company and fill out work time sheet as 8 hours for Monday to Friday but our work mostly take 12-13 Horus a day ( more during tape outs) and for months there are no weekends. So I will be last guy who actually defends any company for crunch time. It's just felt like a hit piece against Naughty Dog at that time.
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Reference for MS reneging the deal with a reviewer
Sorry for so many edits as I am typing on Phone.
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It’s not a hit piece against naughty dog though. Jason has called out several companies over it. He’s one of the best gaming journalists regarding issues like this.
So what if he’s only calling out naughty dog over it? If they are doing it then feck them. Why defend them? If someone calls out EA sports only over micro transactions, I wouldn’t give a shit. Good on the gaming media for doing their job.
You don’t think crunching is fair. Then why try to justify it by saying how iPhones are made within 6 months. That’s a strange comment.
Companies shouldn’t be calling out reviewers non stop. Why are you defending this again by saying because someone else does it that’s it’s ok. It’s never ok if MS, Sony or Nintendo do it. In this case we are discussing last of us because we are in the last of us thread.
Your logic is someone does crunching it’s ok. Another company calls out reviewers then it’s ok. Make your mind up. Are you against these things or not? Don’t try justifying it by saying others do it. So it’s ok then.
It was not just Jason calling them out. It was their own animator who left that was calling them out on Twitter.
Reviews are opinions. If we all said the same thing on here the forum would be boring. If Geko got banned from here this thread would be boring.
I never said it was okay. It's just weird that they get called out for that while almost every company out there is doing this and nobody even mentions it. I gave iPhone or Android phone just as an example. I hardly see people bringing it up to shoot their work. In every negative review, Naughty Dog crunch culture was brought up. I don't see that happening with Apple or Qualcomm latest Processor. It was just an observation and not defense of crunch culture. Maybe it came out as bias towards Sony or Naughty Dog which isn't the case.
Anyway let's leave at that as it is derailing the thread.
Also I watched that MS vid. Already one minute in and he’s being homophobic and going on about how you can go on Xbox live to go call black people pee pee head? Really? Only a man child would watch that guy by the looks of that video.
I can see within the first minute why they cancelled the deal and I would have done the same.
I can see within the first minute why they cancelled the deal and I would have done the same.
That’s the guy you posted videos from. He sounds a lot worse than Geko.
The shocking thing for me is how a company like Microsoft didn’t do any research on this guy before letting him make videos for them.
Late game spoilers
I'm at the beginning of Santa Barbara at the moment, just regained control of Ellie after yet another short segment with Abby. I just don't get why the feck the game is trying so much to force me to think Abby is the better character out of the 2, while Ellie is the real devil who just seeked revenge and killed a pregnant woman and stuff, while Abby is a real hero who saved 2 scars, their enemy and refused to kill Dina at the end, or even Ellie, and let them live. All Abby's journey so far has been as if they are trying to make me feel much more connection with her than Ellie. I like to have gray characters all around but Ellie has done nothing right since the beginning of the game so far, and Abby looks like the real hero of the game.
Let's see how this is going to end and better be a good ending.
Let's see how this is going to end and better be a good ending.
What I got from it was they wanted to show how a random act of violence/murder can cause someone who we know as good to be consumed by hatred and revenge and do questionable things that spiral beyond their cintrol, whilst on the other side a random act of kindness can cause someone we see as bad/evil can make them see the error of their ways and change for the better.
They're both mirror images of Joel, Ellies arc in the game is Joel after he lost his daughter and Abby's story mirrors Joel's character arc from the first game.
The writing & narrative in this one wasnt nearly as tight as it was in the first game (the first game was perfection in writing, restraint, narrative and pacing for me so it would be impossible to top it especially as it was co written this time round but I don't think it's as terrible as some do. The only comparison I can draw is that it's certainly better than The Walking Dead when it was at its best in terms of writing and story but not as good as the best stuff out there.
They're both mirror images of Joel, Ellies arc in the game is Joel after he lost his daughter and Abby's story mirrors Joel's character arc from the first game.
The writing & narrative in this one wasnt nearly as tight as it was in the first game (the first game was perfection in writing, restraint, narrative and pacing for me so it would be impossible to top it especially as it was co written this time round but I don't think it's as terrible as some do. The only comparison I can draw is that it's certainly better than The Walking Dead when it was at its best in terms of writing and story but not as good as the best stuff out there.
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Yahtzee's review. Contains spoilers.
https://www.escapistmagazine.com/v2/the-last-of-us-part-ii-zero-punctuation/
https://www.escapistmagazine.com/v2/the-last-of-us-part-ii-zero-punctuation/
And AJ's
Completed the game for the second time. Took 14hours rushing it to get the collectables. Of course I'd miss just one in Downtown the biggest area. 
Still really like the game and even better a second time, when you notice things more.
Still really like the game and even better a second time, when you notice things more.
Does he do a good job at explaining all the agendas none of us have encountered yet? Or is this, as I expect, you trying to justify your "criticism" by posting a negative review to try and imply that is what you meant all along?
Yeah, he calls the A.I "surprisingly dynamic" which is laughable, but what's sad is he makes reference to the Lesbian aspect twice.
I'm not interested in that kind of edgy gamer-bro bullshit, no one should be.
I'm actually quite surprised by some of his comments and I expect there to be some backlash on him. I like Yhatzee even though he plays up massively now on the slagging games off.
But yes the AI is fecking stupid, but like you've alluded to earlier, little touches like them screaming out names etc make it seem much more dynamic than it actually is.
So far the game is exactly as I expected, a slightly above average action adventure with passable stealth mechanics which is graphically a cut above anything else this gen. So basically the exact same as the first one.
Yahtzee for me is more there for comedy relief for than anything else. In a AAA game where 2 of the main characters are lesbian and another is trans of course he is going to mention it.
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I usually watch dunkeys but not sure how he's seen in that world. I don't have time to listen to a 20-40 minute review and I don't really want to tbh.
Why? What difference does it make? And why in a negative way?
It's that kind of shit attitude that makes things worse. Plus he spends most of the time bitching about that and the story, but somehow forgets to talk about the game problems. Maybe because he clearly doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, and just wants to imply they've taken their eye off the ball just to include "minorities".
It's a trash review.
That was actually quite funny & I enjoyed it, as I usually do like his reviews and how he uses the full review point scale. I don't agree with some of his issues and he does make some good points that have made me think, but if anyone's watched him stream a game he always strikes me as someone who has the emotionnal maturity of a 10 year old while playing it but then in a review he will actually make very good & thoughtful points.
Yer fella Alex hasn't been a good addition to the team imo he doesn't realy seem to like anything. All of them don't seem to be very good at actually playing games either which I find hilarious for someone so successful. In his Uncharted 4 review for example it looked like he played the whole game with auto aim on
Aye, Alex is a fecking grumpy McGrumpster who doesn't like anything, I am not some avid AJ watcher, but whenever I did, I haven't seen him like literally anything, all doom and gloom.
I just think he's pointing out that in his opinion one of the hyped sequels to a game loved because of its story and character, the fact that 3 of the main characters were non-heterosexual failed to make the story or characters better written or more interesting. But yeah there is a reason why Yahtzee's reviews are mainly only 5 minutes long, but he is mainly there for comic relief, he sometimes makes some good points, but I don't take him too seriously.
I don't see the value of such an opinion. In fact that's the crux of the issue, the idea that "fitting in" non-straight characters should somehow have an added value to the story, because it "deviates" from the norm and therefore should be have some justification. Anyone perpetuating that idea actively harms inclusion and diversity and should never be dismissed as comic relief.
But it doesn't read like that, it reads as if he thinks they are focusing on it and it's hurting the game. Answer me this, would you have the same opinion if he said the same about black characters? Think about it.
In any case, not that I'm digging you out mate, it's just a perfect example of why gaming culture is seen as increasingly toxic. Thing is, it's such an easy thing to change and it wouldn't hurt anyone for that to be different, no? I mean take out those stupid little unneccesary comments and it's the exact same review. He's pandering to gamer-bros, the exact type who bitch and moan about agendas then want to claim "jokes!" when called out.
You can be funny, or faux angry about things without being a bigot.
For me this is one of the reasons why Olly is saying the CAF is becoming an increasingly boring place to be. It's getting tiresome to almost pretty quickly being branded as a racist or hater if you step out line with the conventional culture on here. I wouldnt compare blacks to homosexuals in the first place. One is a sexual preference, the other is a skin colour. Yeah, I get it, if he had mentioned a game having 3 black main characters and it failed to make the game more interesting, it would certainly seem more racist.
Who's branded you a racist or hater?
No, you have it backwards. Olly left because of conversations like this where someone refuses to get what's being said and the need to play devil's advocate to someone who clearly is problematic.
The fact you are getting angry about a conversation about this says it all.
Well, I was more on about that I am not supposed to think that Yahtzee is funny and no one should. Well I do think he is funny. My brother in law is a homosexual jehovas witness christian who refuses to date a man because his God tells him that it's wrong. There is actually nothing more than I would like to for him to say feck it and date a man anyway. I am all for equal rights for gays or transgenders and all that, but I opted out of watching A movie called The Danish girl(im Danish btw) when I found out it was about the story of a transgender man because it simply doesn't interest me.
Why are you explaining yourself to me? I clearly stated I wasn't digging you out. I'm talking purely about that review.
And I also said it's fine to find people funny, but surely he's just as funny if he wasn't being bigotted in that review? I mean, again, WHY does he have to twice bring up those aspects as if they are a negative? And if you calm down and think with a level head, you'll get I wasn't comparing black people to homosexuals as you put it, I asked a very fair question as to why any of that makes any difference at all to the game or the story.
It's 2020, we are supposed to be more progressive and it's only fair questions are being asked and people are being called out. Joking about this is one thing, and there'll be people who'd want to call me out on that (as you know, jokes are bad now!), but actually going on about things like this as a negative is something entirely different. Do you see where I'm coming from there?
If we are going to talk about progressive gaming isn't a about time then that we looked at the problem that nearly all our beloved games and gaming franchises are inherently very violent? It's always centered around combat and killing either humans or other beings. Yet we all enjoy it anyway and the most of us don't walk away from it as violent sociopaths. But yeah you can rightly point it that Yahtzee comes off in that review as less progressive for mentioning the word lesbians twice.
He actually says "minority" the first time, and both mentions are negative.
But you are right, this is the exact kind of conversation Olly left because of. Just not in the way you seem to think.
So I'm going to end it there as it's going to continue to be circular.
Alright
Wow you've moved the goalposts repeatedly during all of this back and forth.
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