The John Murtough Era

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devilish said:
Its not guilt by association, its about a man stepping into a very high level job he had never covered before at a time when the club is in an utter mess. We've also tried this trick time and time again (ex Judge as chief of negotiations, Woodward as CEO and Fletcher as technical director) and it never worked. What made you think it would work with Murtough?
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This is the problem in what way does Murtough present himself to be a better fit overall than Woodward ? The only thing that got Woodward supposedly sacked was the Super League fiasco and the club (Glazers) made him a scapegoat for the recent failures for the last decade. The club then appoint an individual with next to no experience to pioneer change yet there's no tangible evidence that Murtough is capable of doing so. If the criteria for success of being a DOF is determined by no other qualitative factors then by all accounts Ole should still be in charge of the first 11 because the same rhetoric can be used to state that any manager can succeed if given time. That is the attitude that is so commonly spouted on this forum and it's absolutely ridiculous.

The arguments for different DOF being given time with no experience is only relevant when context is considered. The context of United needing a new DOF is to turn around failure. I think in business it's impossible to fix catastrophic failure without experience. That's why when failing organisations begin to encounter insolvency or structural degradation individuals like a Jamie Dimon are appointed as CEO's to turn around those failings (Glazers should have the acumen to notice this considering there's so many bankers revolved around the club's hierarchy). Chelsea and Bayern have not encountered failure to the degree that United have competitively so Marina can easily transition from being a PA to Roman to a DOF due to the circumstances.

Everything from United's hierarchy should be outsourced. The scouts, the DOF, any executive positions, the CEO realistically everything.
 
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Just go

You are awful. You have actively made this club worse

The results against Brighton and Brentford are all down to your inexperienced approach to managing our club

Go now, you utter cnut
 
Vapor trail said:
This is the problem in what way does Murtough present himself to be a better fit overall than Woodward ? The only thing that got Woodward supposedly sacked was the Super League fiasco and the club (Glazers) made him a scapegoat for the recent failures for the last decade. The club then appoint an individual with next to no experience to pioneer change yet there's no tangible evidence that Murtough is capable of doing so. If the criteria for success of being a DOF is determined by no other qualitative factors then by all accounts Ole should still be in charge of the first 11 because the same rhetoric can be used to state that any manager can succeed if given time. That is the attitude that is so commonly spouted on this forum and it's absolutely ridiculous.

The arguments for different DOF being given time with no experience is only relevant when context is considered. The context of United needing a new DOF is to turn around failure. I think in business it's impossible to fix catastrophic failure without experience. That's why when failing organisations begin to encounter insolvency or structural degradation individuals like a Jamie Dimon are appointed as CEO's to turn around those failings (Glazers should have the acumen to notice this considering there's so many bankers revolved around the club's hierarchy). Chelsea and Bayern have not encountered failure to the degree that United have competitively so Marina can easily transition from being a PA to Roman to a DOF due to the circumstances.

Everything from United's hierarchy should be outsourced. The scouts, the DOF, any executive positions, the CEO realistically everything.
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But if you bring in people with calibre and status they are going to expect power, control and want to be ambitious. That doesn’t correspond with what the Glazers want because they won’t permit any of that and that type of employee would be gone in no time.

They’ll take a yes man any day if he week and they’ll have them queuing up within the club.
 
Highfather_24 said:
It was obvious that we needed an experienced DOF like Rangnick/Mitchell, who are atleast competent if not brilliant at their jobs. When I said that having someone with zero experience at recruitment will obviously lead to disaster, many here defended Don Murtough to the hill, giving examples of how internal hires have gotten success elsewhere. I can only say that after supporting Utd for so many years, you can see car crashes like this from a mile away.
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Can all the people desperately defending murtough a few weeks ago be banned given rhey are obviously club pr plants
 
Should be fired ASAP.

No ifs, ands or buts about it.

He's been an abject failure so far.
 
Fletcher should also take some of the blame for the state of this squad.

Manchester United is pleased to announce the promotion of John Murtough to Football Director and Darren Fletcher to Technical Director, two new roles that will further strengthen the club’s football operations.
John will have overall leadership and responsibility for operations and strategy across all football functions, reinforcing the strong foundations already in place. This appointment builds on the work John has already undertaken in recent years, working closely with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and the rest of the football staff to create the structures, processes and culture to deliver sustained success on the pitch. This has included successful overhauls of the club’s Academy and recruitment department.

Darren will work closely with John to add technical input and direction into all football and performance areas. He will focus on a co-ordinated and long-term approach to player and squad development, helping maintain the integral link between the Academy and the first team, aligned with Manchester United’s values and culture.
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UnofficialDevil said:
Fletcher should also take some of the blame for the state of this squad.
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I guess everyone should have at least a little but isn't he more responsible for bringing the kids through the pipeline? Getting the likes of Iqbal and Garnacho ready for the first team.
 
Well, I'll be honest I had high hopes that post-woodward United would start operating with a bit of common sense. So far he's been even worse, amazing.

Let's hope he really fecking pulls it out the bag next couple of weeks.
 
mu4c_20le said:
I guess everyone should have at least a little but isn't he more responsible for bringing the kids through the pipeline? Getting the likes of Iqbal and Garnacho ready for the first team.
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"Darren will work closely with John to add technical input and direction into all football and performance areas. He will focus on a co-ordinated and long-term approach to player and squad development"

He hasn't done a good job I think.
 
Honest to God I believe a lot of people on the CAF could do a better job than John Murtough. Just cos a lot of us have the self knowledge to realise we have no f'n idea how to be a Football Director and so we'd need to hire people around us who do.

If Murtough just accepted he's not up to it, then hired some advisers and deputies to help him, we wouldn't be in this mess. Arrogance, complacency and incompetence have led us to this point. This isn't even bottom yet either. That'll come when Liverpool dismantle us next week and snuff out what little belief remains in this squad.
 
Tbh our club/director structure means its difficult to understand who is responsible for what, and to what extent. Arnold, Murtough, Fletcher - plus the scouting team, plus wasn't Michael Keane's brother hired as a negotiator, plus whatever extent Glazer and ETH have involvement in these decisions. Plus there's O'Boyle who joined this summer as a Deputy Football Director, whatever that means.

I don't think anyone here has any real insight into how it all works, who is responsible for exactly what, who is or isn't good at their role etc, beyond ambitious speculation. All we can really assume is that the structure as a whole isn't producing results.
 
Trequarista10 said:
Tbh our club/director structure means its difficult to understand who is responsible for what, and to what extent. Arnold, Murtough, Fletcher - plus the scouting team, plus wasn't Michael Keane's brother hired as a negotiator, plus whatever extent Glazer and ETH have involvement in these decisions. Plus there's O'Boyle who joined this summer as a Deputy Football Director, whatever that means.

I don't think anyone here has any real insight into how it all works, who is responsible for exactly what, who is or isn't good at their role etc, beyond ambitious speculation. All we can really assume is that the structure as a whole isn't producing results.
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Look, it's really simple.

Arnold is the Chief Executive even though he has no experience as a football chief executive, which is why he gives full control of footballing matters to Murtough, who has no experience as a Director of Football, and Fletcher, who has no experience as a Deputy Director of Football. Below them are staff who can't be properly assessed and evaluated because the senior management don't have the experience needed to determine whether or not they're doing their jobs correctly. All of this is overseen by Joel Glazer, who is focused on the Tampa Bay Buccaneers from his home across the Atlantic, who delegates all decisions to Arnold except final confirmation for transfers which is made difficult due to the massive time difference.

......feck.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Look, it's really simple.

Arnold is the Chief Executive even though he has no experience as a football chief executive, which is why he gives full control of footballing matters to Murtough, who has no experience as a Director of Football, and Fletcher, who has no experience as a Deputy Director of Football. Below them are staff who can't be properly assessed and evaluated because the senior management don't have the experience needed to determine whether or not they're doing their jobs correctly. All of this is overseen by Joel Glazer, who is focused on the Tampa Bay Buccaneers from his home across the Atlantic, who delegates all decisions to Arnold except final confirmation for transfers which is made difficult due to the massive time difference.

......feck.
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Where would Rangnick fit in to all that, I wonder.
 
His job effects the team in the long term. Fans judging him on two games are being ridiculous.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
He's one of the fans you quoted.


You're one of the fans he quoted.

:lol:

But in all seriousness, sack Murtough. I'm genuinely tired of this club being a holiday home for sub-par staff.
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feck! Anyway, yeah, I think he should be sacked because of this summers transfer activities. A summer that was probably the most important one in a long time, for so many reasons.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Look, it's really simple.

Arnold is the Chief Executive even though he has no experience as a football chief executive, which is why he gives full control of footballing matters to Murtough, who has no experience as a Director of Football, and Fletcher, who has no experience as a Deputy Director of Football. Below them are staff who can't be properly assessed and evaluated because the senior management don't have the experience needed to determine whether or not they're doing their jobs correctly. All of this is overseen by Joel Glazer, who is focused on the Tampa Bay Buccaneers from his home across the Atlantic, who delegates all decisions to Arnold except final confirmation for transfers which is made difficult due to the massive time difference.

......feck.
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Spot on.

Add to that the board - which usually oversees the appointment of the CEO + chairman at big companies. Even smaller tech companies for example have star studded boards with a lot of experienced professionals.

Who do we have on ours? The 6 Glazer siblings and 2 or 3 other random people.

The changes need to be, in order:
1) Appoint a strong, competent board, which is usually done at the urging of major shareholders, unfortunately ours are mostly the Glazers. Brighton and Brentford for example are owned by betting men and have strong boards with experience in betting/sports.
2) Appoint a strong CEO that isn't just Woodward's uni mate.
3) Get a good DoF in. Some experienced, of the stature of Patrici at Spurs, Campos at PSG.
4) Allow the above two to hire experienced recruitment and footballing staff.
 
GMoore23 said:
Don't rate this guy at all. He's a big part of the reason we didn't get Conte imo.
Conte was too big a name and personality and wouldn't have these tossers overruling him on footballing matters.
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Probably why he got rid of rangnick. He read the first page of rangnicks plan of action and his life Probably flashed before his eyes with all of the money he'd have to spend that isn't his.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Where would Rangnick fit in to all that, I wonder.
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Ralf should've been appointed as a football director reporting to Arnold, with Murtough completely out of the picture. He'd then be responsible for rebuilding the football structure of the club on all levels.

I still can't comprehend how one of the richest football clubs in the world allow so many inexperienced charlatans in sensitive roles.
 
Honestly, one of our hiring criteria's for this position was someone to work with Ole. It's why he was so reluctant to fire him, and subsequently ended up destroying the teams morale keeping him on.

I reckon, none of the external candidates, would've taken the job while being forced a manager on to them - that too a traditional manager, who has input into transfers and running of the club rather than a head coach. I reckon the likes of Campos or whoever else, would've wanted to fire Solskjaer and hire their own coach first and foremost. Which the club didn't want.

Murtough was then the botched appointment who was happy to work with Ole, rather than have a head coach work for him.

And we've gone with ETH the same way. ETH who worked as a head coach for a Sporting Director, is now doing the job of a manager working with Murtough. His remit and responsibilities have doubled.
 
Unfortunately, when you're technical director a poor summer is always going to go against you. Ultimately all of the work you put in through the year comes down to that. It's the final exam, and so far he hasn't passed it. Even if he gets the last couple of questions right, he's arguably put ETH in a difficult position and hurt our start to the season by answering them so late.

It's also a continuing source of disappointment that we have no coherent strategy as a football club which has led to the strategy being "whatever the manager wants." It's sort of understandable in a way, we want to placate our manager in his first window. But the concern must be that we have nobody with demonstrable experience of success at setting recruitment strategies, so we're pretty much gambling on Murtough sorting it.
 
“Murtough is being judged on two games”

Wasn’t he named DOF a couple of years ago? He was DOF when they…

brought in Ronaldo,
delayed sacking OGS (that should have been done after the Europa League final),
took 6 months to hire ETH,
did nothing in the January transfer window,
gave Bruno a new contract,
finished 6th
fired the Chief Scouts on the eve of the transfer window,
then all the incompetency this summer

Safe to say, he’s not had the best couple of years, has he?
 
Mr Pigeon said:
He's one of the fans you quoted.


You're one of the fans he quoted.

:lol:

But in all seriousness, sack Murtough. I'm genuinely tired of this club being a holiday home for sub-par staff.
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I would sack Murtaugh. He has failed as DoF.

Eddy_JukeZ said:
Nope. I've said he should be fired before the season started.
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Ah, I thought you were referring to Arnold for some reason.
 
Abraxas said:
Unfortunately, when you're technical director a poor summer is always going to go against you. Ultimately all of the work you put in through the year comes down to that. It's the final exam, and so far he hasn't passed it. Even if he gets the last couple of questions right, he's arguably put ETH in a difficult position and hurt our start to the season by answering them so late.

It's also a continuing source of disappointment that we have no coherent strategy as a football club which has led to the strategy being "whatever the manager wants." It's sort of understandable in a way, we want to placate our manager in his first window. But the concern must be that we have nobody with demonstrable experience of success at setting recruitment strategies, so we're pretty much gambling on Murtough sorting it.
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He isn't our technical director, Fletcher is. Murtough is Football director, not that I disagree with your post.
 
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