The Impossible Draft R1 - Enigma vs PNut

With players at career peak, who will win the match?


  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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VS
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................................................ TEAM ENIGMA ............................................................................................ TEAM PNUT .............................................


TEAM ENIGMA

Formation: 4-2-3-1
Defensive line: normal
Style: direct, fast tempo. Team build around Zico as main playmaker, watertight defence and top not attacking unit.

Team card:

80's - ALEXIS SANCHEZ (CHILE) + COPA
70's
- PAVEL NEDVED (CZECH REPUBLIC)
60's - GABRIEL BATISTUTA (ARGENTINA) + COPA, ANTONIO BENARRIVO (ITALY)
50's - ZICO (BRAZIL), KARL-HEINZ RUMMENIGGE (GERMANY) + CL
40's
- PAT JENNINGS (NORTHERN IRELAND), ALBERT SHESTERNYOV (RUSSIA)
30's - DAVE MACKAY (SCOTLAND), SVATOPLUK PLUSKAL (CZECH REPUBLIC)
20's - DJALMA SANTOS (BRAZIL) + WC, JOSE SANTAMARIA (URUGUAY) + CL

Team Profiles:

GK: Pat Jennings - the Irishman was undisputed number one for Spurs and Arsenal in the 1970's and 1980's. He was the first goalkeeper to save with his feet consistently, his clearances got a good length and his goal kicks had a great distance. During his time he was one of the best in one-on-one situations which invariably saved Arsenal and Spurs a lot of the time. Incredibly agile, he just flung out of the goal mouth and pretty much caught anything.

LB: Antonio Benarrivo - was considered to be one of the best attacking full backs during the 1990s in his time with Parma. Comfortable on both flanks, and was known for his attacking prowess, but also one of the most versatile and solid defenders of his time. Despite the plethora of quality of Italian full backs in the 90's he played a vital role on the left flank(playing in all but the opening game) in Italy's 94 WC run where they ended up runner-ups.

RB: Djalma Santos - While primarily known for his defensive skills, he often ventured upfield and displayed some impressive attacking skills, excellent crossing ability and distribution of the ball whilst also a dead-ball specialist.He was never sent-off during his career. Djalma went to the midfield to distribute the ball in great way was one of the first overlapping full backs along with Nilton on the other flank. It was very hard find Djalma misplaced at any position, his skills in one on one situations, anticipation, vision, passing(both long and short), reading of the game were superb. No wonder he's considered by many the best right back of all time.

CB: José Santamaría - the Uruguayan was a physically strong and complete defender who rarely allowed opposing players to get past—something that was truly remarkable given that Madrid often played with a 3-2-5 formation throughout the 1950s. Madrid's golden era was known for their attack, but it was their defense that made it possible—led on many occasions by the inspirational wall known as Santamaria. Santamaria was neither as cynical nor as roughhouse as some of his great Nacional or Penarol contemporaries but his strength, stamina, indispensable talent for interceptions in a team generally set up with only three defenders and his heading ability made him the best defender around in the Fifties.

CB: Albert Shesternyov - Arguably the greatest Russian footballer of all-time, Shesternyov's career lasted just 13 years, but spanned the entire 1960's, which he spent exclusively with CSKA Moscow. He won nominated for the Ballon d'Or four times. He was phenomenal athlete and 100 metres for around 11 seconds in his youth, was champion not just area, but also of Moscow and Moscow region, showing excellent results in the 200 metres long and triple jump. His outstanding features included also a great jump and heading ability and fantastic defensive skills.

DM: Svatopluk Pluskal - A fearless defensive midfielder renowned for his aggressive style of play, strong slide tackles and aerial ability, Pluskal won 56 caps for Czechoslovakia, reaching the World Cup final in 1962. One of Europe's top midfielders, Pluskal also represented 'Rest of World' and 'Europe' sides which faced England in the 1960's and was also nominated for Ballon D'or in 1963.

CM(box to box): Dave Mackay - he was the engine-room of the Tottenham Hotspur side which achieved the FA Cup and league double in 1960-61, and years later of Brian Clough’s first successful team at Derby County. Mackay was a combative midfielder . George Best called him “the hardest man I have ever played against – and certainly the bravest”; while Mackay’s former team-mate Jimmy Greaves described him as “the most complete professional footballer I’ve ever known. He was a genuinely hard bastard and a truly gifted ballplayer, a combination which is so rare.” Despite his reputation as an “enforcer”, Mackay was never sent off. And his formidable challenges were matched by an undisputed skill on the ball: he was a superb passer.

AMC(Playmaker): Zico - To me the best player in the draft and on the park. He’s the greatest Brazilian to never win a World Cup. Pele once said: “The one player that came closest to me in playing style was Zico.” He had it all - vision, passing, one of the best dribblers and close control, whilst having the goalscoring ability of any forward in history - scoring more than 500 goals for club and country, not playing as a striker.

AML/LW: Pavel Nedvěd - One of the best midfielders in the last 30 years and one of the best ever to wear the black and white stripes of Juve. You always know what you get with him; goals, assists, great play-making, and hardwork. All while playing with high energy and infectious passion. He was very good defensively as well. A truly complete player and a Ballon D'or winner to boot.

RWF: Karl-Heinz Rummenigge - a quote from El Mundo Deportivo back in 82 describes him best - "It hasn’t been a coincidence that he’s been voted two consecutive seasons in a row as the best European player. He has been the undisputable best player in Europe and for his country. The WC won’t be a deciding factor to his reputation, because he is already an accomplished player at the age of 26, and regarded as one of the major stars in the world. Success at the WC will just confirm for Germany that they have one of the greatest players in their history."

CF: Gabriel Batistuta - One of the best and complete #9's in history. He was an agile, evasive and inventive forward. He’d drop deep, link play, run in behind. Bully, harass, out-smart. There is a reason Diego Maradona once said he was the best centre forward of all time. He passed it into the net, powered headers, dinked, chipped and clipped it past hapless custodians. And of course, from time to time, he simply smashed it.

Great article on him for those interested - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-impossible-draft.439309/page-29#post-22723285

Defence: Every great attacking team needs a solid foundation at the back and we have that with 2 of the greatest CB's of all time and certainly in their respective era's - Shesternyov and Santamaria. Both are defensive walls equally adapt to handle the danger in the air and on the deck. Then we have the most complete full back in Djalma Santos on the right and Benarrivo on the left.

Midfield: Our midfield unit is constructed of solid defensively so that it can shield the back four, but also move the ball to Zico and Nedved, which would be Mackay's role and win the ball back quickly to start prompt counter attacks. Mackay and Pluskal are great in the defensive phase, which will allow Zico to run the game, whilst Nedved's presence would add up to the midfield battle and give us another body in there creating a numerical advantage at what most likely be 4-4-2 that we'll be facing.

Attack: A team that is definitely build around a fantastic attack, this is our focal point. Nedved, Kalle, Zico and Batistuta is an attacking unit that has it all and one of the best in their positions individually. Our attack has it all - the grit and determination of Nedved, Kalle and Batistuta, complimented by the incredible vision, pure flair and Dribbling ability of Zico. Zico, Batistuta and Kalle are phenomenal goalscorers and we have a lot of different routes for goal. Kalle would excel alongside physical and complete forward in Batistuta, to play off him and come from the right, whilst also Batigol creates space for him and Zico to make late runs in the box. Nedved with his endless stamina will buzz around the pitch add to the midfield battle as well as provide our forward line with creativity.

Advantages:

We feel we definitely have the advantage in attack and defence, considering both individual quality and also as a unit.

The midfield battle I expect to be balanced with advantages here and there during transitions, but the work rate of Nedved would create numerical advantage most of the time if we face a 4-4-2.

Worth mentioning as well is Kalle's and Batigol teamwork and pressing ability forward, which will be our first line of defence.


TEAM P-NUT:


Formation: 442/424 Hybrid

1694200_Dream_Team.jpg

Player Roles - Criteria

GK:
Yashin - Goalkeeper - Asi, Rus, 20
RB: Azpiliceuta - Balanced full back - Eur, Spa, 90
CB: M. Ramos - Stopper - SA, Bra, 30
CB: L. Blanc - Sweeper - Eur, Fra, 60
LB: R. Pavoni - Defensive Full Back - SA, Uru, 40
CM: J. Tigana - Box to Box - Afr, Mal, 50
CM: B. Bremner - Box to Box - Eur, Sco, 40
RW: D. Beckham - Right Winger - Eur, England, 70
ST: J. Charles - Target Man - Eur, Wal, 30
CF: F. Puskás - Complete Striker - Eur, Hun, 20
LW: J. Barnes - Left Winger - NA, Jam, 60

Honours

CL - Puskás, Beckham
WC - Blanc, Ramos
Copa - Ramos

Style of play

A very fluid formation with players changing position as needed.

Beckham can tuck into the midfield when required adding to the midfield numbers. The lack of an attacking midfielder also gives Puskás the license to drop in to that hole when he feels it is necessary.

Reasons why I'll win

M. Ramos
and Blanc is the classic stopper-sweeper combo. Both have won world cups with their counties and Ramos on 2 occasions. They have Yashin behind them to complete a seriously strong central core.

Bremner and Tigana in midfield are physically dominant and would destroy the rhythm of the opposition.

The Beckham - Charles link is an obvious route to goal, and even if failing to get a header direct on target, Puskás will be around him to snap up any chances that fall his way. Barnes is there to keep the full backs wide with his dribbling and goal scoring ability.

Puskás is in his perfect role here, he has the freedom to drop off and get involved in build up, or run behind from Charles flick ons.
 
Initial thoughts

We feel we definitely have the advantage in attack and defence, considering both individual quality and also as a unit.

No chance of your attack having higher quality than mine. Charles and Puskás are both perfectly set up here.

Beckham has a perfect target in Charles and Puskás has players all around him to link with.
 
@P-Nut0712 were you maradoned when you created that formation picture?

Nope it's how I wanted it to be displayed. It's just hard to quite show Beckham's positioning. He will be playing high and wide when we have got the ball stretching the defense across the pitch, but will track back or tuck into midfield when Enigmas side has sustained possession.
 
Enigma's team :eek: What restrictions?

Love P-Nut's 4-4-2 (at least the front 4-2) as well though.
 
Christ, that’s some team @Enigma_87

Zico is absolute gold dust in this format, given he has no restrictions.
 
Albert Shesternyov - Arguably the greatest Russian footballer of all-time,
Come on now :lol: Unarguably the greatest Russian footballer of all-time plays for the other team. Not sure that I'd even have Shesternyov in my top-5.
 
Christ, that’s some team @Enigma_87

Zico is absolute gold dust in this format, given he has no restrictions.
Cheers mate. Yeah, Zico is real coup, especially he practically blocks nobody and has no CL or WC medal to his name, although either would've boosted his legacy much further.
 
Come on now :lol: Unarguably the greatest Russian footballer of all-time plays for the other team. Not sure that I'd even have Shesternyov in my top-5.

Should've mentioned outfield, cause there's another that I agree also - Dasayev. :lol:

But Ukrainian born aside and keepers who do you have in front of him? Netto?
 
Initial thoughts



No chance of your attack having higher quality than mine. Charles and Puskás are both perfectly set up here.

Beckham has a perfect target in Charles and Puskás has players all around him to link with.

Have no issue with your set up mate, beautifully done and that front four plays to its strengths.

The only "issue" I see with the attack is probably lacking a designated playmaker and stitching up the attack and defence.

Becks can be used as wide playmaker, but with Tigana and Bremner actively engaged with the midfield battle, it might become an issue not having a conductor in the middle of the park.

Otherwise of course that front four individually is also great and becomes a matter of who one would like more. :)
 
Should've mentioned outfield, cause there's another that I agree also - Dasayev. :lol:

But Ukrainian born aside and keepers who do you have in front of him? Netto?
(Yashin + Dasayev)
Without a doubt: Voronin, Netto, Streltsov
Probably: Cherenkov, Ivanov, Arshavin and maybe even Chislenko

Don't get me wrong, he is a great player and the best defender that Russia ever produced, but he isn't and never was in the greatest Russian player of all-time discussion.
 
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(Yashin + Dasayev)
Without a doubt: Voronin, Netto, Streltsov, Arshavin
Probably: Cherenkov, Ivanov, and maybe even Chislenko

Don't get me wrong, he is a great player and the best defender that Russia ever produced, but he isn't and never was in the greatest Russian player of all-time discussion.
Cheers.

Thought he was generally considered as good as any of your first tier, considering he was nominated and voted for Ballon D'or 4 consecutive years from 68 to 71 and regularly top 3 Soviet player of the year (4 times and won it in 1970),which for a defender is quite telling and regarded as one of the very best defenders in the whole era (60's).

Many lists also include him as a top 5 along with Yashin and Dasayev.

Surprised you rate Arshavin so high btw.
 
Bit more on the make up of my defence.

Due to playing a 424 I am more concerned with having solid full backs that defend first and attack by supporting attacks rather than bombing past their winger.

Azpiliceuta we all know is a more than capable defender in this regard.

Pavoni is less well known to most so I'll go more in depth on him.

Captain of a great Idependiente side that won 4 consecutive Copa Lobertadores and beat Juventud 1-0 in Italy in the Intercontinental cup. He has been described as an excellent man marker who was only mainly bothered by defending and allowed his more talented teammates to do the attacking. Most sites refer to him as an archetypal Uruguayan footballer, strong and no nonsense is what's required of him here and it's what he'll provide.

On to the centre backs. Again one is more well known than the other. Blanc is one of the all time great sweepers, and will be the defender with the most freedom to play the ball out from the back.

Mauro Ramos is up there with some of Brazil's greatest ever centre backs. He was imperious in the air and a tough tackler. He will fit the bill perfectly as the stopper in the sweeper-stopper combo I've put together.
 
Have no issue with your set up mate, beautifully done and that front four plays to its strengths.

The only "issue" I see with the attack is probably lacking a designated playmaker and stitching up the attack and defence.

Becks can be used as wide playmaker, but with Tigana and Bremner actively engaged with the midfield battle, it might become an issue not having a conductor in the middle of the park.

Otherwise of course that front four individually is also great and becomes a matter of who one would like more. :)

Yeah I don't really see a need for one in this game due to the way I expect my team to play, quick and vertical.

When my defence wins the ball back it would be spread to either wing, and fed into the box from wide. I don't expect to have sustained possession in your half at all really and I'm happy to concede that.

Also, for those times when I may need to slow the game down Bremner is more than capable. In fact reading your Dave McKay profile it seems they were quite similar. I'll spoiler a detailed description of him below that led to me picking him.

William J. Bremner, Esq. was the embodiment of both Leeds United and Scotland.

Fiery, classy, skilful and determined almost to the point it became a negative, the diminutive midfield general brought out the best in those around him and made Leeds, at least, into a team that was at its peak way more than the sum of its parts.
Truly world class, Bremner could out-pass, out-muscle, out-tackle, out-head and generally out-play pretty much anyone he came up against despite standing a mere 5’6” in his stocking feet. This wee man was famously described as “ten stone of barbed wire” by his mentor, Don Revie, and nobody wanted to get on the wrong side of his captain … yet he actually didn’t need to resort to violence for the most part, so good was he on the ball.




A true team player and years ahead of his time as a deep-lying play-maker cum box-to-box schemer in the mould of a modern day De Rossi or Schweinsteiger, Bremner had it all and made a staggering 771 appearances in all competitions for Leeds as well as 54 for Scotland, a figure that surely would’ve been higher had they actually qualified for more than one major tournament in his playing lifetime.

The kind of guy you’d want alongside you in the trenches as well as covering every blade of grass on a football field, Billy Bremner deserves his place in the pantheon of the greats of the game.
 


Top performance from Nedved in his pump. Took part in all 3 goals against Inter, including scoring the 2nd, showcasing his great engine constantly harassing players, getting the ball back and gliding across the pitch. :drool:

Yeah I don't really see a need for one in this game due to the way I expect my team to play, quick and vertical.

When my defence wins the ball back it would be spread to either wing, and fed into the box from wide. I don't expect to have sustained possession in your half at all really and I'm happy to concede that.

Also, for those times when I may need to slow the game down Bremner is more than capable. In fact reading your Dave McKay profile it seems they were quite similar. I'll spoiler a detailed description of him below that led to me picking him.

William J. Bremner, Esq. was the embodiment of both Leeds United and Scotland.

Fiery, classy, skilful and determined almost to the point it became a negative, the diminutive midfield general brought out the best in those around him and made Leeds, at least, into a team that was at its peak way more than the sum of its parts.
Truly world class, Bremner could out-pass, out-muscle, out-tackle, out-head and generally out-play pretty much anyone he came up against despite standing a mere 5’6” in his stocking feet. This wee man was famously described as “ten stone of barbed wire” by his mentor, Don Revie, and nobody wanted to get on the wrong side of his captain … yet he actually didn’t need to resort to violence for the most part, so good was he on the ball.




A true team player and years ahead of his time as a deep-lying play-maker cum box-to-box schemer in the mould of a modern day De Rossi or Schweinsteiger, Bremner had it all and made a staggering 771 appearances in all competitions for Leeds as well as 54 for Scotland, a figure that surely would’ve been higher had they actually qualified for more than one major tournament in his playing lifetime.

The kind of guy you’d want alongside you in the trenches as well as covering every blade of grass on a football field, Billy Bremner deserves his place in the pantheon of the greats of the game.


Yeah I had Bremner shortlisted as well. They are of the same cloth like Souness and Robson with the latter being the most technically gifted, but the other three could play ball as well and sometimes unfairly judged only on their defensive game.
 
Thought he was generally considered as good as any of your first tier, considering he was nominated and voted for Ballon D'or 4 consecutive years from 68 to 71 and regularly top 3 Soviet player of the year (4 times and won it in 1970),which for a defender is quite telling and regarded as one of the very best defenders in the whole era (60's).

Many lists also include him as a top 5 along with Yashin and Dasayev.

Surprised you rate Arshavin so high btw.
Arshavin should be in the second group to be fair, I was constantly editing that list and messed it up in the end. Still, his peak from 2005 was absolutely immense, sadly people outside Russia haven't seen most of it.

Shesternyov was a great player and an even better athlete (physically he was fecking perfect) but he hugely benefited from the Soviet system — more so than the midfield or attacking players. Talent-wise I don't think that he's better than Khurtsilava or Chivadze, even though he had undoubtedly a better career than the two of them. It's subjective, of course, and I tend to rate him slightly lower than most, but I haven't seen anyone claiming that he's arguably the Russian's greatest ever (outfield) player before today.
 
Arshavin should be in the second group to be fair, I was constantly editing that list and messed it up in the end. Still, his peak from 2005 was absolutely immense, sadly people outside Russia haven't seen most of it.

Shesternyov was a great player and an even better athlete (physically he was fecking perfect) but he hugely benefited from the Soviet system — more so than the midfield or attacking players. Talent-wise I don't think that he's better than Khurtsilava or Chivadze, even though he had undoubtedly a better career than the two of them. It's subjective, of course, and I tend to rate him slightly lower than most, but I haven't seen anyone claiming that he's arguably the Russian's greatest ever (outfield) player before today.

Yeah, probably not done by a Russian and all but:

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2017/07/05/best-xi-of-the-1960s/

Grabbed some of the extract from here, being a good presentation and to be fair came across that label on couple of other sites, but nothing "definitive" by far.

He had a great career tho and those 90 caps are really something special considering he played only 13 years and in those days where there weren't that many friendlies. Of course as a defender it's hard to grab the highlights, yet very few were nominated that many times as Soviet player of the year at the time.
 
Yeah I had Bremner shortlisted as well. They are of the same cloth like Souness and Robson with the latter being the most technically gifted, but the other three could play ball as well and sometimes unfairly judged only on their defensive game.

Yeah he's the reason I don't need the playmaker you originally mentioned as lacking. He's more than capable of supplying that front 4.
 
Solid teams from both. Enigmas defense gives him a edge.

Not as fan of Djalma Kalle wing. A more adventurous fullback would be better.
Djalma is considered one of the most balanced (and complete) full backs of all time. Sometimes he is unfairly depicted only as a defensive RB, whilst he was also very good going forward and supporting the attack.

When paired with Garrincha of course he wouldn't need to venture forward that much, but for his club teams he was asset going forward and considered one of the first (along with Nilton) overlapping full backs.

His passing and crossing were also highly regarded and if I'm to compare him with a modern day example probably that would be Zanetti and Lahm, who were similar players stilistically (also able to tuck in and help the midfield).

On other hand Kalle/Nedved/Zico is really fluid trio behind Batistuta and could easily change flanks (Kalle and Nedved) providing width and also confusing the opposition.

Ideally I'd want to have 1 balanced full back and one more attacking one so we have 3-4 players on the wary of counter attacks and with Benarrivo going vertically and attacking the left flank, Nedved can drop to the right whilst Kalle attacks the box from deep.

A bit like Marcelo for Real example.
 
Djalma is considered one of the most balanced (and complete) full backs of all time. Sometimes he is unfairly depicted only as a defensive RB, whilst he was also very good going forward and supporting the attack.
Links? From all I've read before he was a defensive back who went on to play CB for his club. Kalle was more of a wide forward than a proper winger too. I don't see them connecting often.
 
enigma's is final worthy. With those restrictions, it will be hard to improve that.
 
Links? From all I've read before he was a defensive back who went on to play CB for his club. Kalle was more of a wide forward than a proper winger too. I don't see them connecting often.

From Reuters:
Djalma Santos was known for his technical skill and crossing ability and Brazilians credit him and his contemporary Nilton Santos with helping create the overlap. Both players got forward when possible, which was a rarity among defenders of the time.

Independent:
But Santos could be a thrilling attacker, too, capable of rampaging down his touchline on swashbuckling overlaps and joining in with flowing team moves, occasionally displaying flair with the ball worthy of the most artistic midfield general. He was also a dead-ball specialist, taking penalties in the early part of his career, and he was blessed with an even temperament, retaining his composure in the most hectic of situations and never being sent off in more than 1,000 games as a professional.


and other sources:
Equally important is the concept of overlap. One of the reasons Brazil’s attacking full-backs were so effective early on is because teams were not prepared to defend against them. For example, imagine the 1962 World Cup. Every defender in the world knew what Garrincha, a right-winger, was capable of doing to them. Teams prepared for him my man-marking or even double-marking him closely. What did those same teams think as they watched Djalma Santos storm past them unmarked?

The attacking full-back is a tradition embedded in the very DNA of the Brazilian National Team, but also a tradition that has evolved far beyond its roots. Securing the long-term future of the Seleção will depend largely on re-examining this tradition. In a sense, Brazilian full-backs need not reinvent themselves so much as return to the original template set by Nilton and Djalma Santos: become technically skilled players who attack when able, while defending, always.
 
Yeah he's the reason I don't need the playmaker you originally mentioned as lacking. He's more than capable of supplying that front 4.

More than Bremner it's your wide players that negate the need for a classic playmaker imo. Beckham's ability to spray passes speaks for itself but Barnes' craft on the ball seems to go under the radar. I think it was @Raees that compared him to Figo stylistically which is spot on. Equally comfortable attacking his full back or cutting infield to act as a playmaker. Not to mention you've got Puskas as a creator behind Charles too.
 
More than Bremner it's your wide players that negate the need for a classic playmaker imo. Beckham's ability to spray passes speaks for itself but Barnes' craft on the ball seems to go under the radar. I think it was @Raees that compared him to Figo stylistically which is spot on. Equally comfortable attacking his full back or cutting infield to act as a playmaker. Not to mention you've got Puskas as a creator behind Charles too.

Yeah it's come up against a great side here in Enigmas, but I think that front 4 have enough to make this into a proper game.

Puskás is the best players on the park. And he's in his perfect role to thrive here.
 
A fantastic game to look at closely.

Puskas-Charles partnership looks a combination of two super successful partnerships in Puskas-Kocsis and Sivori-Charles. That is my favorite part from the lineups.

I don't see the need for this to be portrayed as a 4-2-4 though. I know Pnut wants it to be a hybrid of a 4-4-2 and a 4-2-4, but a standard 4-4-2 would have been the better way IMO.
Both Beckham and Barnes had very good work rate and with Bremner and Tigana who would be good foil for Zico, that would been a super effective 4-4-2.
Djalma from what I remember liked to wait for his winger rather than go and close them down. Barnes in a 4-2-4 plays into Djalms's comfort zone while a 4-4-2 would have made it tougher for him.
Ramos,Blanc and Azpilicueta all seem like good fits against the opposition, but Pavoni I am not fully aware of his game.

Coming to Team Enigma, that front 4 in this draft is ridiculous. Its a shame on the rest of us that we allowed him to get that, especially with the first 3 picks literally not winning anything of worth. Great job assembling them.
What I am not a fan of is the back 4 setup. Not the players in particular but the way they are setup.
I'd have ideally liked Santamaria on Puskas and Shesterenyov on Charles. I can understand with Bennarivo and Djalms how the current version seems more obviuos, but Bennarivo is facing Beckham who should not be a huge concern even if the centre backs directions are reversed.

All in all, looks set for a high scoring game and one which should have a good amount of draws if simulated 10 times.
But that Puskas-Charles combination is the star of the game for me and hence ever so slightly tilted towards Pnut. Very tough to vote against Enigma's front 4 though.
 
I haven't heard quotes like that about Djalma before. With respect to this I think the question I posed in the draft thread is pertinent.

A general question as to how to approach older "attacking" full-backs like Nilton Santos and Marzolini. Who do we think is definitely the first wing owning full-back to the play the game? I suspect it may be Facchetti. Whoever it is are there any journalists who reported on e.g. Facchetti and someone like Marzolini at club level? If they exist this may give us a better idea of what the journalist meant by attacking. I suspect the answer to my question is no but for those inclined, it may be worth investigating
 
Yeah it's come up against a great side here in Enigmas, but I think that front 4 have enough to make this into a proper game.

Puskás is the best players on the park. And he's in his perfect role to thrive here.

Aye, that front four is perfectly balanced, and if anything I think you might edge it in terms of your respective CM pairings, although both are excellent. I love a good 4-4-2, so I have more love for your team, but it's hard to overlook the sheer quality of Enigma's team. Will have another think about this one before voting.
 
A fantastic game to look at closely.

Puskas-Charles partnership looks a combination of two super successful partnerships in Puskas-Kocsis and Sivori-Charles. That is my favorite part from the lineups.

I don't see the need for this to be portrayed as a 4-2-4 though. I know Pnut wants it to be a hybrid of a 4-4-2 and a 4-2-4, but a standard 4-4-2 would have been the better way IMO.
Both Beckham and Barnes had very good work rate and with Bremner and Tigana who would be good foil for Zico, that would been a super effective 4-4-2.
Djalma from what I remember liked to wait for his winger rather than go and close them down. Barnes in a 4-2-4 plays into Djalms's comfort zone while a 4-4-2 would have made it tougher for him.
Ramos,Blanc and Azpilicueta all seem like good fits against the opposition, but Pavoni I am not fully aware of his game.

Coming to Team Enigma, that front 4 in this draft is ridiculous. Its a shame on the rest of us that we allowed him to get that, especially with the first 3 picks literally not winning anything of worth. Great job assembling them.
What I am not a fan of is the back 4 setup. Not the players in particular but the way they are setup.
I'd have ideally liked Santamaria on Puskas and Shesterenyov on Charles. I can understand with Bennarivo and Djalms how the current version seems more obviuos, but Bennarivo is facing Beckham who should not be a huge concern even if the centre backs directions are reversed.

All in all, looks set for a high scoring game and one which should have a good amount of draws if simulated 10 times.
But that Puskas-Charles combination is the star of the game for me and hence ever so slightly tilted towards Pnut. Very tough to vote against Enigma's front 4 though.
Think are overlooking Zico in this game mate. Against a 4-4-2 and both of P-nut midfielders engaged in the midfield battle he will have plenty of joy.

The last time he faced a Souness led 4-4-2 in his pump he pretty much destroyed that best liverpool side in 1981.

My CB’s are also pretty comfortable in the air and Puskas, who is Pnut best player comes in a zone where Djalma, Pluskal and Shesternyov occupy - hence he won’t have it easy to put his stamp on the game compared to Zico not facing a designated DM and in a zone where the opposition midfielders have to create, be engaged in the midfield battle and lack some numbers considering only Becks would track back and provide some support.
 
Djalma has been regularly used as a RCB in a 352 or WM in drafts before. Does that now mean he is Thuram and Zanetti rolled into one and officially the first superhuman witnessed by earth?:wenger:
 
I haven't heard quotes like that about Djalma before. With respect to this I think the question I posed in the draft thread is pertinent.

A general question as to how to approach older "attacking" full-backs like Nilton Santos and Marzolini. Who do we think is definitely the first wing owning full-back to the play the game? I suspect it may be Facchetti. Whoever it is are there any journalists who reported on e.g. Facchetti and someone like Marzolini at club level? If they exist this may give us a better idea of what the journalist meant by attacking. I suspect the answer to my question is no but for those inclined, it may be worth investigating

I think Nilton and Djalma going forward is pretty comparable. Both were pioneers in terms of overlap, both technically gifted and exploited the space.

Carlos Alberto was also used as a CB, yet in terms of draft stature he’s seen as attacking as Cafu for example.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Nilton wasn’t Roberto Carlos by any means, yet he is always depicted as much more attacking than Djalma, however the latter had Garrincha in front of them and being the better defender had to play much more balanced role.

If we look at Djalma as a player he had it all to support the attack - great engine - played as Cafu close to his 40s and even at 37 in the WC, technical and crossing ability - recognized in all reports at that time, top class positional sense and reading of the game.

In essence he did support the attack and in modern day formation based on his qualities I’d probably say he’d be just as attacking as modern day full backs.
 
Djalma has been regularly used as a RCB in a 352 or WM in drafts before. Does that now mean he is Thuram and Zanetti rolled into one and officially the first superhuman witnessed by earth?:wenger:
Well, he’s widely regarded as the best RB of all time :)

I wouldn’t compare him to Thuram, but Zanetti or Lahm as a modern example is fair one IMO.
 
Aye, that front four is perfectly balanced, and if anything I think you might edge it in terms of your respective CM pairings, although both are excellent. I love a good 4-4-2, so I have more love for your team, but it's hard to overlook the sheer quality of Enigma's team. Will have another think about this one before voting.

Nedved brings a huge factor to that midfield tho, mate. Even more so than Becks on the other side. He possesses one of the greatest engines in the game and will be actively involved in the midfield battle.

If Zico is left unmarked he can decide the game single handedly.


and the comment of Souness in the end -

"I remember thinking,'I wonder how he'd react to a really physical challenge?'
But I never got within two yards of him." :lol:
 
A fantastic game to look at closely.

Puskas-Charles partnership looks a combination of two super successful partnerships in Puskas-Kocsis and Sivori-Charles. That is my favorite part from the lineups.

I don't see the need for this to be portrayed as a 4-2-4 though. I know Pnut wants it to be a hybrid of a 4-4-2 and a 4-2-4, but a standard 4-4-2 would have been the better way IMO.
Both Beckham and Barnes had very good work rate and with Bremner and Tigana who would be good foil for Zico, that would been a super effective 4-4-2.
Yeah, agree with this. A 4-4-2 with split strikers or a 4-2-3-1 would have potentially swung me over. Creativity brims across that rounded four plus Puskas that there is clearly no need for a designated 'playmaker' in the middle. Hard to look past the sheer quality of Enigma's XI though, the attack and defence are especially top notch. Getting Zico off the bat - who for me is the standout in the pool and should have been blocked - and Santamaria so late on was clinical drafting. Don't necessarily agree with the assessment of Shesternyov's standing, nor the take on Djalma's attacking abilities. But equally though someone like Mackay might be a little under-appreciated so I can forgive a little embellishment there.
 
Bit of revisionism going on with Djalma Santos imo. He’s always been regarded as the most defensive of the great South American fullbacks.