The importance of charisma/gravitas

Also the same manager can be successful in Club A, not successful in Club B, successful in Club C.

If that manger was return to Club A he may be unsuccessful the second time around and successful in Club B second time around, although he wouldn't get a chance.

Some of it must depend on the personality of the players when he arrives, and how they immediately perceive him. If the players are self motivated or a bunch of disinterested moaners who would much rather be back home. Team spirit and wanting to win has to be a huge factor and a manager can influence that but sometimes maybe they just can't get enough of it.

How do explain what Claudio Ranieri did at Leicester? No charisma, no gravitas.

I saw an interview with him when he said that for the first week at Leicester he walked around didn't really interact with anybody and the staff and the players were talking behind his back saying he didn't know what to do.

After a week he told everyone that he didn't really see much that needing improving and that they should carry on. Genius ?

Sean Dyche could possibly go to Real Madrid and excel, but go to Hartlepool and fail.

There has to be some hit and miss in this, although SAF didn't ever miss did he ?
 
Slot probably isn't a barrel of laughs but he comes over as very sensible and genuine, no nonsense someone players will listen to, if it's going well.

ETH came over as a bit of an excuse merchant like the boy who never hands in his homework.

Next week, I promise.
 
Diego Maradona didn’t have great tactics. But his sheer charisma carried him in that Argentina national team job.
 
sullydnl said:
Ten Hag didn't fail because he lacked personality. He failed because he set the team up poorly. No amount of personality compensates for that.
Click to expand...
thanks for saying this, because if Amorim is hired, poeple will think oh he is charismatic and all with his antics and passion and whatnot, but he could be a shit manager, Ten Hag had enough personality to land the United Job, win trophies, albeit small ones, his failure is simply due to failed tactics and horrible in-game management
 
Stig said:
Slot probably isn't a barrel of laughs but he comes over as very sensible and genuine, no nonsense someone players will listen to, if it's going well.

ETH came over as a bit of an excuse merchant like the boy who never hands in his homework.

Next week, I promise.
Click to expand...
not defending Ten Hag, but did you think he was excuse merchant in his first season, when he was smacked by Brentford and Brighton?
 
I think most top managers like Ferguson, Ancelotti, Wenger, Simeone, Pep, Zidane have the authority, energy and excellent leadership skills.


Proper charisma like Mourinho and Klopp is pretty rare. These guys just have the X Factor and charm which makes them very entertaining and interesting personalities in press conferences, interviews and the touchline.


There are many managers who are very likeable though. Pochettino comes across as very likeable. When Tuchel is happy he can be really charming. Then there's managers like Ange and Frank who are pleasant. No nonsense managers like Slot and Flick are very well respected and mature.


Charisma isn't compulsory for managers. But if you have it then the media and the fans like you a lot more. Ten Hag was just very boring and had awful communication skills. His press conferences were tough to listen to. I remember Jamie Carragher said Spurs and Levy rejected Ten Hag because of the lack of charisma. Might be true after all.
 
As soon as I saw the clip of ETH when garnacho and licha were coming back from winning the Copa America and he was addressing the squad and talking about building a winning culture, I knew his days were numbered. He could not command the room his communication is awkward and cluttered and I think he falls out with players easily. Not ideal traits, I think tactically very good but these ideas were not communicated to the players clearly hence the chaos.
 
TenonTen said:
Pep isn't charismatic at all. He's a socially awkward weirdo.
Click to expand...

You can still be that and have charisma/gravitas though. You can be a socially awkward weirdo and still get millions of people to buy into your ideas/cult of personality - just look at Elon Musk.

I see it as almost similar to being a teacher. Imagine if ETH was your chemistry teacher - you'd probably spend 3/4 of the class asleep or daydreaming. Whereas if Klopp or Pep was your teacher you'd probably be more engaged.

Like teaching, knowing what you're talking about is only half the equation. The other half is creating connection and engagement with the other person. I've been saying this for quite a long time - he just doesn't have the personality for the job.
 
Looks like we should've gone for Ian Holloway before Swindon snapped him up.
 
Trequarista10 said:
This.

Success leads to genuine confidence and assuredness, which is essentially what gravitas is.

Gravitas doesn't precede success. That's just faking it to make it. Risks coming across David Brent-ish, like Brendan Rodgers.
Click to expand...

I don't think you can fake it though. People are very good at detecting try-hards and fakers, and that's why it's so easy to recognize the David Brents from the real deals.
 
I think its very important but think theres another dimension needed too. The players have to really like their manager I think, to get the best from them. LVG and Mourinho both had presence, but I got the sense the players didnt care for them too much. I felt like players generally liked ten hag, but he didnt have that gravitas.

I hope Amorim is the guy, but we forget how highly rated ten hag was, he really was the most promising coach out there at the time. Early indications on Amorim are good, and I read some reports saying his players love him.
 
Ten Hag didn't have much personality at all, I worry that his skills to communicate with players was a massive issue for him
 
This is part of the reason why I’m liking Maresca so far and loved Tuchel. A complete contrast to Poch.

Stig said:
How do explain what Claudio Ranieri did at Leicester? No charisma, no gravitas.
Click to expand...

That was just Nice Guy buff. It doesn’t last long and if I recall correctly Craig Shakespeare was the brains behind a lot of what was going on there. Eventually they forced him out in favour of Shakespeare.
 
Eric Cantona has charisma and gravitas, should we hire him?
 
Bastian said:
I just mentioned this the other day here. I think it's vitally important. Only LVG and Jose had that of the permanent managers post SAF. Carrick had that for his 3 game spell.
Click to expand...

This. I think it is extremely important, and from what little I've read so far Amorim seems to fall into this category. Time will tell!
 
Eth was incredibly boring. It was a trial getting through a 10 minute clip on Youtube of his pre match presser.
He also walked a bit like he was being controlled by a puppeteer, all these little things add up, especially when results are bad.
 
Avero said:
Eric Cantona has charisma and gravitas, should we hire him?
Click to expand...
I see you’re focusing in on the line where I said that charisma and gravitas are the only important qualities a manager should possess. Very clever, go treat yourself to some chocolate.
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
not defending Ten Hag, but did you think he was excuse merchant in his first season, when he was smacked by Brentford and Brighton?
Click to expand...
I don't know the answer to that as I don't understand the question and not being a politician I can't change the subject or give a nonsequitur for an answer. I just think that he always had an excuse. Maybe they all do when they lose but the other day he was claiming injuries but if people you don't intend to play are injured that doesn't really count.

Do you mean did I think that he didn't have an excuse for Brentford and Brighton and he/we were just rubbish ?
 
mark.ward82 said:
As soon as I saw the clip of ETH when garnacho and licha were coming back from winning the Copa America and he was addressing the squad and talking about building a winning culture, I knew his days were numbered. He could not command the room his communication is awkward and cluttered and I think he falls out with players easily. Not ideal traits, I think tactically very good but these ideas were not communicated to the players clearly hence the chaos.
Click to expand...
I’ve thought this for a while now. He might have all the knowledge in the world but his inability to communicate well does put a barrier between himself and the players. He’s robot like, often speaking in calculated half sentences.

Obviously we only see what we see but if that carries over into sessions etc I’ve long since felt it can’t be a healthy environment.

He just comes across a bit awkward. Even welcoming the new signings to carrington after the summer it all looked a bit forced and unnatural for him. A show for the cameras.

He’s not the messiah, but it was clear as day the Liverpool players would run through brick walls for Klopp. He creates such a healthy bond with his player. It’s that relationship that is almost as important as the tactical stuff these days with a whole host of different personalities to ‘manage’

And managing personalities is what SAF was best at. He didn’t even do the coaching in his later years.
 
I think with Ten Hag, while he wasn't someone who oozed charisma, his bigger problem was his lack of proper communication skills, at least in English. You would see it in pretty much every interview, where he's asked something else and he'd go on a long winded answer to something else.

Maybe he is better in Dutch, but I always thought looking at his interviews, that is he able to get his point clearly across to the players? This is something that had come up when Spurs hadn't hired him the year before we did, that his communication skills were poor. I don't know if it was the language ( which would be strange as having lived in the Netherlands myself, more or less everyone speaks perfect English) or just his overall communication, but it never came across as clear.
 
Stig said:
I don't know the answer to that as I don't understand the question and not being a politician I can't change the subject or give a nonsequitur for an answer. I just think that he always had an excuse. Maybe they all do when they lose but the other day he was claiming injuries but if people you don't intend to play are injured that doesn't really count.

Do you mean did I think that he didn't have an excuse for Brentford and Brighton and he/we were just rubbish ?
Click to expand...
Fair enough, for me the excuses started to roll out since early last season, he was fine in his first season.
 
How do you define charisma or gravitas? Ancelotti doesn’t appear to have either. Obviously when you win people automatically see you as having “gravitas”. Same with Zidane.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
How do you define charisma or gravitas? Ancelotti doesn’t appear to have either. Obviously when you win people automatically see you as having “gravitas”. Same with Zidane.
Click to expand...
Here's the Cambridge Dictionary definition of gravitas...
seriousness and importance of manner, causing feelings of respect and trust in others
Click to expand...
This describes Ancelotti to a tee. Serene, and exudes a sense of calm, and a serious, dignified and a deep-thinking statesman in the footballing realm.

Plus, he was once a very accomplished footballer himself. Featuring in some of the grandest stages of club football, boasting a high degree of tactical awareness as the adaptive glue in central midfield, playing a crucial role in what was considered one of the Top 3 club teams of all time, if not the absolute best club team of all time, at the time of his retirement. All of those “been there, done that” experiences, as well as previous experiences at Parma and Roma (particularly under someone warm and relatable like Nils Liedholm), would resonate with his players as he embarked upon a career in management, and have stood him in good stead.
 
Personally think it's overrated. LVG and Jose had loads of it but it didn't help at the end. It can only take you so far.
 
The only manager that lost so badly (6-1) and still maintained his unquestionable charisma was Sir Alex. Any other looked like a gobshite. Including ETH. He got beaten 7-0 by Liverpool and his mysterious aura disappeared instantly, leaving him naked and exposed. So the so called charisma for football manager is only valid until they shit the bed. At which point it's better to let go and find a new one.

Also happened to Jose and Wenger. Some results are simply too bad to recover from.
 
Stig said:
How do explain what Claudio Ranieri did at Leicester? No charisma, no gravitas.
Click to expand...

Thought he had quite a lot tbh in an old-school gentleman way, a bit like an Italian Bobby Robson. He was the grandad you respect and want to right by.

Was liked by fans up and down the country after his Chelsea stint because he came across well.
 
Invictus said:
Here's the Cambridge Dictionary definition of gravitas...

This describes Ancelotti to a tee. Serene, and exudes a sense of calm, and a serious, dignified and a deep-thinking statesman in the footballing realm.

Plus, he was once a very accomplished footballer himself. Featuring in some of the grandest stages of club football, boasting a high degree of tactical awareness as the adaptive glue in central midfield, playing a crucial role in what was considered one of the Top 3 club teams of all time, if not the absolute best club team of all time, at the time of his retirement. All of those “been there, done that” experiences, as well as previous experiences at Parma and Roma (particularly under someone warm and relatable like Nils Liedholm), would resonate with his players as he embarked upon a career in management, and have stood him in good stead.
Click to expand...
Do you think Lampard and Gerrard have managerial gravitas?
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Do you think Lampard and Gerrard have managerial gravitas?
Click to expand...
I'm sure they do, to varying, largely unquantifiable, degrees. To be a manager at any level of professional football, you have to be somewhat serious and sincere with regard to your temperament, demeanor and conduct.
 
Invictus said:
I'm sure they do, to varying, largely unquantifiable, degrees. To be a manager at any level of professional football, you have to be somewhat serious and sincere with regard to your temperament, demeanor and conduct.
Click to expand...
That's exactly my point - human, and for that matter any, beings are complicated creatures and tend to differ largely in their biological and hence behavioural composition. So for us at home, to be able to judge something as ambitious as aura / gravitas among them and use that as a deciding attribute for success at a big club, seems an impossible task. Is Ancelotti's natural gravitas (as a personality trait) any greater than Roy Keane's or John Terry's? From an utterly clueless layman point of view - I don't think so. But he undoubtedly is a better manager of young athletes and background staff, tactician and so on. Much of his gravitas appears to come from the fact that he's a very successful manager. Same with Zidane - he has gravitas because he's Zidane. Everything ETH did at Ajax displayed this gravitas - he improved most of the squad and won titles for fun - yet 1 year at United washed all of that away. I just don't know if it's that easy a thing to judge as it is based on perception.

On the other hand, charisma is something far more obvious. Jose burst on the scheme and the man was charming as feck. Klopp is another who clearly has that in the way he speaks.

Essentially, are we able to judge gravitas or is it something we assign to people after the fact / based on their success?
 
Chipper said:
Thought he had quite a lot tbh in an old-school gentleman way, a bit like an Italian Bobby Robson. He was the grandad you respect and want to right by.

Was liked by fans up and down the country after his Chelsea stint because he came across well.
Click to expand...
That's nice to know.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
How do you define charisma or gravitas? Ancelotti doesn’t appear to have either. Obviously when you win people automatically see you as having “gravitas”. Same with Zidane.
Click to expand...
Ancelotti does not have gravitas? I think he has it in abundance.
 
Yes, it is very important specially in the bigger clubs. I still remember how Benitez was hated from both players and fans, he was a good coach but not for Real Madrid. If the manager isn't getting through the players or they don't respect him it's the end.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.