The History Thread

Kentonio said:
Why? You can kind of see the attraction of 'let out of the bad stuff'. It's the same thinking that drives detox people today.
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True, which is why i would have more understanding when it comes to purgatives. Practically speaking, there are instances where vomiting makes the individual feel better, is the same true with blood loss?
 
. . . history written by the victors

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...roor-melbourne-writers-festival-a7936141.html

Winston Churchill Has As Much Blood On His Hands As The Worst Genocidal Dictators Claims Indian Politician

This is a man the British would have us hail as an apostle of freedom and democracy, says author.

An Indian politician has put Winston Churchill in the same category as some of “the worst genocidal dictators” of the 20th century because of his complicity in the Bengal Famine.

Dr Shashi Tharoor, whose new book Inglorious Empire chronicles the atrocities of the British Empire, argued the former British Prime Minister’s reputation as a great wartime leader and protector of freedom was wholly miscast given his role in the Bengal famine which saw four million Bengalis starve to death.

In 1943, up to four million Bengalis starved to death when Churchill diverted food to British soldiers and countries such as Greece while a deadly famine swept through Bengal.

During an appearance at the Melbourne writers’ festival broadcast by ABC, the Indian MP noted Churchill’s orders related to Australian ships carrying wheat at Indian docks.

“This is a man the British would have us hail as an apostle of freedom and democracy, when he has as much blood on his hands as some of the worst genocidal dictators of the 20th century,” he said to applause.
He added: “People started dying and Churchill said well it’s all their fault anyway for breeding like rabbits. He said ‘I hate the Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion’.”

Dr Tharoor, a former Under-Secretary of the UN, also gave an extensive description of British colonial exploitation and annihilation of traditional Indian industries such as textiles which reduced it to “a poster child of third world poverty” by the time the British left in 1947.

He said the “excuse that apologists [of British empire] like to make is, it’s not our fault, you just missed the bus for the industrial revolution. Well, we missed the bus because you threw us under its wheels.”

This is not the first time Dr Tharoor has voiced his frustrations about the way Churchill is remembered by the history books. In March, he argued the former PM who led Britain to victory in World War Two should be remembered alongside the most prominent dictators of the twentieth century.

“This [Churchill] is the man who the British insist on hailing as some apostle of freedom and democracy," the author told UK Asian at a launch for his book. "When to my mind he is really one of the more evil rulers of the 20th century only fit to stand in the company of the likes of Hitler, Mao and Stalin".


He added: “Churchill has as much blood on his hands as Hitler does. Particularly the decisions that he personally signed off during the Bengal Famine when 4.3 million people died because of the decisions he took or endorsed."

"Not only did the British pursue its own policy of not helping the victims of this famine which was created by their policies. Churchill persisted in exporting grain to Europe, not to feed actual ‘Sturdy Tommies’, to use his phrase, but add to the buffer stocks that were being piled up in the event of a future invasion of Greece and Yugoslavia”.

“Ships laden with wheat were coming in from Australia docking in Calcutta and were instructed by Churchill not to disembark their cargo but sail on to Europe,” he added. “And when conscience-stricken British officials wrote to the Prime Minister in London pointing out that his policies were causing needless loss of life all he could do was write peevishly in the margin of the report, ‘Why hasn’t Gandhi died yet?'"

Dr Tharoor first rose to prominence after his heartfelt speech at Oxford Union, discussing the economic toll British rule took on India, in July 2015 went viral.
 
I really want to post some drone photos from the site I've been working at as they look pretty incredible but I'm scared my employer will find out and fire me.
 
Nobby style said:
. . . history written by the victors

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...roor-melbourne-writers-festival-a7936141.html

Winston Churchill Has As Much Blood On His Hands As The Worst Genocidal Dictators Claims Indian Politician

This is a man the British would have us hail as an apostle of freedom and democracy, says author.

An Indian politician has put Winston Churchill in the same category as some of “the worst genocidal dictators” of the 20th century because of his complicity in the Bengal Famine.

Dr Shashi Tharoor, whose new book Inglorious Empire chronicles the atrocities of the British Empire, argued the former British Prime Minister’s reputation as a great wartime leader and protector of freedom was wholly miscast given his role in the Bengal famine which saw four million Bengalis starve to death.

In 1943, up to four million Bengalis starved to death when Churchill diverted food to British soldiers and countries such as Greece while a deadly famine swept through Bengal.

During an appearance at the Melbourne writers’ festival broadcast by ABC, the Indian MP noted Churchill’s orders related to Australian ships carrying wheat at Indian docks.

“This is a man the British would have us hail as an apostle of freedom and democracy, when he has as much blood on his hands as some of the worst genocidal dictators of the 20th century,” he said to applause.
He added: “People started dying and Churchill said well it’s all their fault anyway for breeding like rabbits. He said ‘I hate the Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion’.”

Dr Tharoor, a former Under-Secretary of the UN, also gave an extensive description of British colonial exploitation and annihilation of traditional Indian industries such as textiles which reduced it to “a poster child of third world poverty” by the time the British left in 1947.

He said the “excuse that apologists [of British empire] like to make is, it’s not our fault, you just missed the bus for the industrial revolution. Well, we missed the bus because you threw us under its wheels.”

This is not the first time Dr Tharoor has voiced his frustrations about the way Churchill is remembered by the history books. In March, he argued the former PM who led Britain to victory in World War Two should be remembered alongside the most prominent dictators of the twentieth century.

“This [Churchill] is the man who the British insist on hailing as some apostle of freedom and democracy," the author told UK Asian at a launch for his book. "When to my mind he is really one of the more evil rulers of the 20th century only fit to stand in the company of the likes of Hitler, Mao and Stalin".


He added: “Churchill has as much blood on his hands as Hitler does. Particularly the decisions that he personally signed off during the Bengal Famine when 4.3 million people died because of the decisions he took or endorsed."

"Not only did the British pursue its own policy of not helping the victims of this famine which was created by their policies. Churchill persisted in exporting grain to Europe, not to feed actual ‘Sturdy Tommies’, to use his phrase, but add to the buffer stocks that were being piled up in the event of a future invasion of Greece and Yugoslavia”.

“Ships laden with wheat were coming in from Australia docking in Calcutta and were instructed by Churchill not to disembark their cargo but sail on to Europe,” he added. “And when conscience-stricken British officials wrote to the Prime Minister in London pointing out that his policies were causing needless loss of life all he could do was write peevishly in the margin of the report, ‘Why hasn’t Gandhi died yet?'"

Dr Tharoor first rose to prominence after his heartfelt speech at Oxford Union, discussing the economic toll British rule took on India, in July 2015 went viral.
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While there is plenty of truth in some of this, it's a simplistic populist analysis stoking Indian nationalism. Churchill was a racist as most of Europe were in these times, yes. As was Ghandi, who believed Africans were sub-human who Indians shouldn't be subjected to work alongside or use the same facilities as black people. Ghandi believed 'the untouchables' should be oppressed.

The faminine had numerous causes such as Crop failure, Prioritisation of goods to strategic war areas (including strategic regions within India), Japanese invasion of Burma, tactics to counteract further Japanese invasions such as crop and boat destruction, corruption, displaced peoples, the caste system itself and Independence & British conflict destroying infrastructure. It is a British administrative failure but to state it's solely attributed to Churchill is historically false and disingenous. The famine would have happened whether Churchill had re-directed food crops to British outposts or not. If Churchill hadn't done this less people would have died but still there would have been a massive loss of life. And ofcourse Churchill had to balance that with his responsibilities he had to his troops during a total war effort.

To his credit Churchill warned of secterian violence that independence would bring and he was right as 2 million perished.
 
Apparently this is Saddam Hussein having a grand old time with his wife, supposed to be around 1958 but I think it might be a bit later:

ca20ae63fcd13be290124a5bfb0be5b1--saddam-hussein-cousins.jpg
 
@RedTiger think we discussed this episode before, here's some silent footage of Sharif Hussein accepting the position of caliph from some loyalists in 1924:

 
Lakes of mercury and human sacrifices – after 1,800 years, Teotihuacan reveals its treasures
When archaeologists found a tunnel under Mexico’s ‘birthplace of the gods’, they could only dream of the riches they would discover. Now its wonders – from jewel-eyed figures to necklaces of human teeth – are being revealed to the world:

https://www.theguardian.com/artandd...reasures-secret-de-young-museum-san-francisco
 
I ended up going down a bit of a rabbit hole on youtube after watching some videos about secret tunnels and chambers that supposedly exist below the Sphinx. All strange in that it seemed to be covered up by Egyptian authorities etc. Then I get to reading about the Tomb of Osiris, the egyptian god. They found this tomb right between the Sphinx and the pyramid.

The tomb is constructed on three levels that span 95m below ground. The final level was the alleged burial chamber for Osiris. It was completely submerged in water but they shot a video when they were down to the last few feet of water and you could see the sarcophagus just below water level.

The strange thing is, there has never been a report that I can find as to what they found in the sarcophagus. The last video was released in 2015...with a matter of days left until the water had been cleared.

Has anyone ever read or seen anything about this?
 
pocco said:
I ended up going down a bit of a rabbit hole on youtube after watching some videos about secret tunnels and chambers that supposedly exist below the Sphinx. All strange in that it seemed to be covered up by Egyptian authorities etc. Then I get to reading about the Tomb of Osiris, the egyptian god. They found this tomb right between the Sphinx and the pyramid.

The tomb is constructed on three levels that span 95m below ground. The final level was the alleged burial chamber for Osiris. It was completely submerged in water but they shot a video when they were down to the last few feet of water and you could see the sarcophagus just below water level.

The strange thing is, there has never been a report that I can find as to what they found in the sarcophagus. The last video was released in 2015...with a matter of days left until the water had been cleared.

Has anyone ever read or seen anything about this?
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I believe the thought on this is that it was a ceremonial chamber not an actual tomb.
 
JustAFan said:
I believe the thought on this is that it was a ceremonial chamber not an actual tomb.
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It's just strange how nothing was ever published regarding what they found. I believe the tomb has long since been closed off.

Another interesting find is the "unfinished pyramid" (seems to be under debate) of Zawyet el Aryan. Another feat of engineering, carved through metres of bedrock. I'd love to know how they did this, it would take forever with anything resembling a primitive hammer and chisel.

What's also interesting about this, if what I've read is true, is that there were granite plinths weighing around 100 tonnes each at the base of the structure. But apparently the nearest place with this granite stone is around 500 miles away, which begs the question as to how they transported these rocks.
 
pocco said:
It's just strange how nothing was ever published regarding what they found. I believe the tomb has long since been closed off.

Another interesting find is the "unfinished pyramid" (seems to be under debate) of Zawyet el Aryan. Another feat of engineering, carved through metres of bedrock. I'd love to know how they did this, it would take forever with anything resembling a primitive hammer and chisel.

What's also interesting about this, if what I've read is true, is that there were granite plinths weighing around 100 tonnes each at the base of the structure. But apparently the nearest place with this granite stone is around 500 miles away, which begs the question as to how they transported these rocks.
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If only they had a river nearby and a large labor force.
 
It was only in 2015 which they uncovered this. Some reports take a long time to become publically accessible, if at all.
 
JustAFan said:
If only they had a river nearby and a large labor force.
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They may also have employed purpose-built canals linking the quarries to the Nile.

I saw a programme on Easter Island which showed how it was possible to move the huge statues carried on rolling logs. Not a great supply of trees in Ancient Egypt, of course.
 
Will Absolute said:
They may also have employed purpose-built canals linking the quarries to the Nile.

I saw a programme on Easter Island which showed how it was possible to move the huge statues carried on rolling logs. Not a great supply of trees in Ancient Egypt, of course.
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Yeah I have heard about the possibility of canals.

On Easter Island isn't there a theory that they deforested the island building all the statues?
 
JustAFan said:
Yeah I have heard about the possibility of canals.

On Easter Island isn't there a theory that they deforested the island building all the statues?
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Yeah, I heard that one. But maybe they were cutting the trees down anyway to clear for agriculture?

I suppose an inexperienced people wouldn't understand the importance of their forests. After all farmers in the American heartland in the 20th century didn't appreciate that their soil would all blow away if they over-used the land.
 
A while ago I read about a theory that claims art is being used as a tool to launder money.

Does that make sense?
 
WackyWengerWorld said:
While there is plenty of truth in some of this, it's a simplistic populist analysis stoking Indian nationalism. Churchill was a racist as most of Europe were in these times, yes. As was Ghandi, who believed Africans were sub-human who Indians shouldn't be subjected to work alongside or use the same facilities as black people. Ghandi believed 'the untouchables' should be oppressed.

The faminine had numerous causes such as Crop failure, Prioritisation of goods to strategic war areas (including strategic regions within India), Japanese invasion of Burma, tactics to counteract further Japanese invasions such as crop and boat destruction, corruption, displaced peoples, the caste system itself and Independence & British conflict destroying infrastructure. It is a British administrative failure but to state it's solely attributed to Churchill is historically false and disingenous. The famine would have happened whether Churchill had re-directed food crops to British outposts or not. If Churchill hadn't done this less people would have died but still there would have been a massive loss of life. And ofcourse Churchill had to balance that with his responsibilities he had to his troops during a total war effort.

To his credit Churchill warned of secterian violence that independence would bring and he was right as 2 million perished.
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How would you compare this to the Holodomor? Roughly the same number of people died in it.

I'd say that preventing famine in this time period was basically impossible, not only that, famine relief in under developed regions was beyond impossible. Look at the Ethiopian crisis in the 80's. The entire world practically committed modern aircraft and food to relieving that famine, and millions still died. Take bad agricultural policies, add in drought, and people were going to die in huge numbers. Churchill even seems to have echoed Stalin's callousness about the entire thing.
 
1103.jpg


Neanderthals – not modern humans – were first artists on Earth, experts claim
Neanderthals painted on cave walls in Spain 65,000 years ago – tens of thousands of years before modern humans arrived, say researchers
The significance of the new dating for Europe’s oldest cave art is not that it makes Neanderthals the inventors of art. It is actually bigger than that. The reason it is so eerie to think of a Neanderthal making a hand-image is that the painted hands – not to mention bison, horses and mammoths – found in European caves have come to be seen as the moment when the modern human mind itself is born: the first evidence not just of the intelligence of Homo sapiens but our capacity to imagine and dream, to reflect, in short to possess consciousness. What does it mean if another kind of human species shared those traits? Is there nothing special about us at all?

Here’s the thing. That Neanderthal hand is the first evidence ever found of another species showing cultural self-consciousness. It’s not so very far from a hand print to a self-portrait to a diary to a novel. This discovery dethrones the modern human mind.
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https://www.theguardian.com/artandd...pain-astounding-discovery-humbles-every-human
 
Came across this interesting map of various independent entities that were declared during the Russian Civil war.

rZtqFyP.jpg
 
Raoul said:
Came across this interesting map of various independent entities that were declared during the Russian Civil war.

rZtqFyP.jpg
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That’s a great find! Remember seeing something similar years ago. The whole thing about «nations» gets more interesting the longer your perspective.
 
Handré1990 said:
That’s a great find! Remember seeing something similar years ago. The whole thing about «nations» gets more interesting the longer your perspective.
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Interesting that the Russians seemed to have nicked their flag from "The Military Dictatorship of Mughan".
 
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