The Former United Youth/Reserves Thread

WhoDaGOAT said:
At 26, there's still time for England caps during a time when Livermore is pretty much an England regular.

Needs to stay fit though, obviously.
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When you see some of the midfielders that have been chosen for England over the last few years of course he has a chance.
 
WhoDaGOAT said:
At 26, there's still time for England caps during a time when Livermore is pretty much an England regular.

Needs to stay fit though, obviously.
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Thought he was brilliant when he came back from injury, just before being sold.
The way he dictated the game was top class. But no doubt the injuries have been terrible with him. I hope this year can be his
 
AP88 said:
Quality player, better than Drinkwater IMO
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Not yet he isn't. Drinkwater's peak level was comfortably worthy of a place in a title winning side. Matty James has 21 PL starts, over half those games lost. Even during the impressive run that saved them from relegation under Pearson, he only started 3 of those wins, late sub for another 2 victories, unused sub for one and missed the final 5-1 win due to injury. The rest of the time he's been a Championship player.

Leicester won 1 out of the 9 PL games that Drinkwater didn't feature in, last season. And he started all 10 CL matches. So while his form was significantly lower than the previous season, he was still performing way above Matty James' peak to date.

You could just about make a case that Matty James was slightly ahead of Drinkwater prior to his injury at the end of 2014/5.
 
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sincher said:
Ben Brereton is one we might end up buying back for millions. Looking very good for Forest and England U19.
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Had no idea Brereton was on our books between 2005-2013. Early, but he certainly is talented enough to be a good player in the Premier League. Exciting prospect.
 
Harrop & Pearson both starting for Preston. Trying to find a stream!
 
Yagami said:
Harrop & Pearson both starting for Preston. Trying to find a stream!
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I've never really understood the hype on here for Pearson, he's just an upgraded version of Tunnicliffe, runs around like a headless chicken and is always a tackle away from a booking or red card. A couple of Preston fans think he's a total liability.
 
Acole9 said:
I've never really understood the hype on here for Pearson, he's just an upgraded version of Tunnicliffe, runs around like a headless chicken and is always a tackle away from a booking or red card. A couple of Preston fans think he's a total liability.
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The rest think he's going to be a PL level player whom they'll fetch £10-15m for. He is their best midfielder, they lack in areas that's evident but he's more often than not one of their star performers.
 
Acole9 said:
I've never really understood the hype on here for Pearson, he's just an upgraded version of Tunnicliffe, runs around like a headless chicken and is always a tackle away from a booking or red card. A couple of Preston fans think he's a total liability.
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He's a very talented DM who needs to learn to play smart. Especially as a DM, he has to stay cool and play the ref. But that might just be more of a lack of maturity and something he'll get better at as he plays more. I think he can be a PL level player in a few years.
 
Acole9 said:
I've never really understood the hype on here for Pearson, he's just an upgraded version of Tunnicliffe, runs around like a headless chicken and is always a tackle away from a booking or red card. A couple of Preston fans think he's a total liability.
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He looks like a homeless man's Gattuso to me. Even in the youth teams his passing and gait was Sunday league-like.
 
Joe Rothwell playing out of his skin at Oxford. He's finally being played in central midfield and is now adding goals. Had a mixed time down here and Appleton used to use him wide and didn't ever give him a real run in the side. I've seen him four times this season and he's been the outstanding player on the pitch on each occassion.

Scored in the last two matches and very similar goals too, powering through from midfield and finishing low and hard in corner. I imagine Oxford will want to tie him down to a longer deal as he's out of contract at end of season.
 
Some very average players got very hyped on here, probably Pearson, Thorpe & Tunnicliffe the pick of them. Some of the nonsense especially regarding Thorpe was comical, there was a reason he never got his chance and it was because he was no way near good enough.
 
Sometimes a player can stand out at lower levels but not make the step up. Sometimes a player does little at reserves level but can step up readily. Noone is perfect at knowing who can and who can't. Tom Thorpe never looked like a superstar but he certainly looked like he could be a player at the level of the likes of Chris Casper, James Chester etc. and I remain surprised to this day that he didn't. Then there are players like Tunnicliffe who stood out more for attitude and work rate than ability... and sometimes those players make it (the Nevilles were not far off this description), but usually they don't. Pearson is actually doing very well (much better than the average player in our youth system, for example) so I think is a bad example. Then there are players like Larnell Cole, who looked a technically better player than Tunnicliffe but hasn't got very far at all - it happens. On the other side, I think very few who watched Tom Cleverly or Jonny Evans in the early days at United would have pegged them as international players with premier league pedigree, but both stepped up to good effect, even though neither made it at United.

Most people who have been around a bit know that the actual chances of a youth team player ending up in the United first team regularly are very slim, but when a player shows promise it is understandable to be excited by that.

At least those who thought Thorpe might be a good player actually watched our reserves frequently, as opposed to someone like Scholesy who seemed to think Wootton and Norwood were the future based on a few minutes here and there.
 
sincher said:
Sometimes a player can stand out at lower levels but not make the step up. Sometimes a player does little at reserves level but can step up readily. Noone is perfect at knowing who can and who can't. Tom Thorpe never looked like a superstar but he certainly looked like he could be a player at the level of the likes of Chris Casper, James Chester etc. and I remain surprised to this day that he didn't. Then there are players like Tunnicliffe who stood out more for attitude and work rate than ability... and sometimes those players make it (the Nevilles were not far off this description), but usually they don't. Pearson is actually doing very well (much better than the average player in our youth system, for example) so I think is a bad example. Then there are players like Larnell Cole, who looked a technically better player than Tunnicliffe but hasn't got very far at all - it happens. On the other side, I think very few who watched Tom Cleverly or Jonny Evans in the early days at United would have pegged them as international players with premier league pedigree, but both stepped up to good effect, even though neither made it at United.

Most people who have been around a bit know that the actual chances of a youth team player ending up in the United first team regularly are very slim, but when a player shows promise it is understandable to be excited by that.

At least those who thought Thorpe might be a good player actually watched our reserves frequently, as opposed to someone like Scholesy who seemed to think Wootton and Norwood were the future based on a few minutes here and there.
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Evans was excellent for the reserves before his debut.
 
Yeah, it's a mugs game making accurate predictions about the career trajectories for kids in our academy. You do occasionally get kids like Rossi, Pogba and Morrison who consistently look head and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch but telling the rest of them apart is almost impossible. I'm not mentioning Rashford because I didn't watch our reserves as frequently as I used to when he was coming through.

One thing's for sure, though, if anyone is going to make an accurate call about the kids at the club it's going to be the coaching staff. So it's well and good speculating about who will and won't cut it at the very highest level while they're still at the club but when they're cut loose that's a big piece of evidence, right there, that anyone predicting great things for them should probably revise their opinion. Thorpe being a good example of this. Because it's very very rare that anyone released from our academy (unless they force their way out, a la Pogba) later goes on to prove the club wrong. Shawcross and Keane at a push. Maybe Danny Drinkwater? And even these three names are a stretch. I don't think any of them would get in our team right now.

Welbeck, Cleverley and Evans are different, in that they got their big break and played a bunch of first team games. So they were being judged based on their performances as senior pros, rather than their potential.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah, it's a mugs game making accurate predictions about the career trajectories for kids in our academy. You do occasionally get kids like Rossi, Pogba and Morrison who consistently look head and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch but telling the rest of them apart is almost impossible. I'm not mentioning Rashford because I didn't watch our reserves as frequently as I used to when he was coming through.

One thing's for sure, though, if anyone is going to make an accurate call about the kids at the club it's going to be the coaching staff. So it's well and good speculating about who will and won't cut it at the very highest level while they're still at the club but when they're cut loose that's a big piece of evidence, right there, that anyone predicting great things for them should probably revise their opinion. Thorpe being a good example of this. Because it's very very rare that anyone released from our academy (unless they force their way out, a la Pogba) later goes on to prove the club wrong. Shawcross and Keane at a push. Maybe Danny Drinkwater? And even these three names are a stretch. I don't think any of them would get in our team right now.

Welbeck, Cleverley and Evans are different, in that they got their big break and played a bunch of first team games. So they were being judged based on their performances as senior pros, rather than their potential.
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Were they 3 lads you mentioned released, or did they just refuse to sign a new contract ??
 
sincher said:
Sometimes a player can stand out at lower levels but not make the step up. Sometimes a player does little at reserves level but can step up readily. Noone is perfect at knowing who can and who can't. Tom Thorpe never looked like a superstar but he certainly looked like he could be a player at the level of the likes of Chris Casper, James Chester etc. and I remain surprised to this day that he didn't. Then there are players like Tunnicliffe who stood out more for attitude and work rate than ability... and sometimes those players make it (the Nevilles were not far off this description), but usually they don't. Pearson is actually doing very well (much better than the average player in our youth system, for example) so I think is a bad example. Then there are players like Larnell Cole, who looked a technically better player than Tunnicliffe but hasn't got very far at all - it happens. On the other side, I think very few who watched Tom Cleverly or Jonny Evans in the early days at United would have pegged them as international players with premier league pedigree, but both stepped up to good effect, even though neither made it at United.

Most people who have been around a bit know that the actual chances of a youth team player ending up in the United first team regularly are very slim, but when a player shows promise it is understandable to be excited by that.

At least those who thought Thorpe might be a good player actually watched our reserves frequently, as opposed to someone like Scholesy who seemed to think Wootton and Norwood were the future based on a few minutes here and there.
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Pretty much this.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah, it's a mugs game making accurate predictions about the career trajectories for kids in our academy. You do occasionally get kids like Rossi, Pogba and Morrison who consistently look head and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch but telling the rest of them apart is almost impossible. I'm not mentioning Rashford because I didn't watch our reserves as frequently as I used to when he was coming through.

One thing's for sure, though, if anyone is going to make an accurate call about the kids at the club it's going to be the coaching staff. So it's well and good speculating about who will and won't cut it at the very highest level while they're still at the club but when they're cut loose that's a big piece of evidence, right there, that anyone predicting great things for them should probably revise their opinion. Thorpe being a good example of this. Because it's very very rare that anyone released from our academy (unless they force their way out, a la Pogba) later goes on to prove the club wrong. Shawcross and Keane at a push. Maybe Danny Drinkwater? And even these three names are a stretch. I don't think any of them would get in our team right now.

Welbeck, Cleverley and Evans are different, in that they got their big break and played a bunch of first team games. So they were being judged based on their performances as senior pros, rather than their potential.
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I'm not so sure that he is, unless you're including LVG as part of that coaching staff. He seemed quite well thought of at youth level. Also, the fact that he was let go at 22 says a lot about the fact that his opportunity had passed rather than how his ability was perceived by his coaches. I know everyone has different thoughts on this as it's been discussed on here plenty of times before but I don't necessarily think that just because a player doesn't leave United and prove the club wrong that a manager was right not to give them a chance and that they didn't have what it takes to perform at that level, the cream doesn't always rise to the top in my opinion.
 
Still early this season but not been great so far for former united youth and reserves:

Last season's star perfomers Josh King, Michael Keane and Tom Lawrence have got plenty of mins on the pitch but form/impact way down on last year.

Matty James' 4 PL starts a rare good news story though out injured again. Signed a 5 year contract so guaranteed to be a very wealthy man (by most people's standards) even if he doesn't play that much. As will Danny Drinkwater after his Chelsea move, though injury has kept him out of their team. Robbie Brady a regular starter for Burnley.

James Weir, Sean Goss, Vermijl, Donald Love - barely getting any playing time in the Championship. Goss not even making the bench at QPR, seems to be in their U23s.

McNair just recently back from long term injury. Will Keane still out. Richie De Laet might be fit after knee injury ruined last season but not featuring much for Villa.

Ashley Fletcher bought for £6m+ by Middlesborough yet tends to be a sub, one goal and 2 assists in the Championship. Tunnicliffe took a while to get in the Millwall side after his move.

Ben Pearson and Josh Harrop doing ok for Preston. Pearson might want to cut down on the bookings if he is to get a PL move in the next year or two.

Blackett was a regular for Reading until recently, playing left-back or left wing-back. Oliver Norwood features most games for Fulham, mostly starts, other times sub, 2 goals. Zeki Fryers 4 starts for Barnsley; his earnings per start ratio in his career to date must be breath-taking.

Reece James had a run of games for Wigan in League One though been on the bench last month or so. Nick Powell scoring goals for them, should be playing Championship next season either with Wigan or bought by another side. Joe Rothwell 3 goals for Oxford, should get a new deal at League One level at worst, possibly Championship if he has a strong 2nd half of the season. Corry Evans starting for Blackburn in League One until recently; he had been a Championship level player for a long time.

Scott Wootton dropped down a division but now a regular starter for MK Dons in League One. I remember him playing for United against Chelsea in the League Cup. Don't recall his other appearances against Newcastle in the same competition and Cluj in CL group stage.

Saidy Janko is a regular for Saint Etienne in Ligue 1. Davide Petrucci's Turkish side got relegated so he is now in the Turkish 2nd division.

Macheda has one goal in Serie B in 7 starts. Last season he managed 7 goals in 16 starts in Serie B. Hope he saved some of his United earnings because it doesn't look like anyone will be offering him big money in the near future. Fornasier another playing in Serie B, or rather sat on the bench, last season he was starting in Serie A for the same club. Frederic Veseli also in Serie B having joined Empoli.

Mats Moller Daehli currently playing in the German 2nd division, been injured a big chunk of the time since leaving Cardiff.

Magnus Wolff Eikrem's contract at Malmo seems to be up at the end of 2017. Wasn't featuring much in the 2nd half of the season. Got tons of assists the previous season but productivity way down this season.

Larnell Cole has reappeared at Tranmere in the National League, making his first appearance off the bench a few days ago, having been released by Fulham after his loan at Inverness Caledonian ended.

Angelo Henriquez back scoring again in Croatia after a difficult spell throughout 2016 and much of 2017. I seem to recall he played a pre-season match under Moyes.

Charni Ekangamene continuing to be an unused sub regardless of which league he happens to be in; currently Belgian 2nd division. Wonder how much you get paid for such a role ? Transfermarkt values him at £135K down from £800K at his peak in summer 2015. In fairness he did feature a bit in the Belgian Jupiler Pro League during his first season after leaving United. Hope his career takes off soon.

Jack Barmby a sub for Portland Timbers. Been there about 18 months after leaving Leicester U23.
 
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kundalini said:
Still early this season but not been great so far for former united youth and reserves:

Last season's star perfomers Josh King, Michael Keane and Tom Lawrence have got plenty of mins on the pitch but form/impact way down on last year.

Matty James' 4 PL starts a rare good news story though out injured again. Signed a 5 year contract so guaranteed to be a very wealthy man (by most people's standards) even if he doesn't play that much. As will Danny Drinkwater after his Chelsea move, though injury has kept him out of their team.

James Weir, Sean Goss, Vermijl, Donald Love - lucky to get any playing time in Championship. Goss not even making the bench at QPR, seems to be in their U23s.

McNair just recently back from long term injury. Will Keane still out. Richie De Laet might be fit after knee injured ruined last season but not featuring much for Villa.

Ashley Fletcher bought for £6m+ by Middlesborough yet tends to be a sub, one goal and 2 assists in the Championship.

Ben Pearson and Josh Harrop doing ok for Preston. Pearson might want to cut down on the bookings if he is to get a PL move in the next year or two.

Blackett was a regular for Reading until recently, playing left-back or left wing-back. Oliver Norwood features most games for Fulham, mostly starts, other times sub, 2 goals. Zeki Fryers 4 starts for Barnsley; his earnings per start ratio in his career to date must be breath-taking.

Reece James had a run of games for Wigan in League One though been on the bench last month or so. Nick Powell scoring goals for them, should be playing Championship next season either with Wigan or bought by another side. Joe Rothwell 3 goals for Oxford, should get a new deal at League One level at worst, possibly Championship if he has a strong 2nd half of the season. Corry Evans starting for Blackburn in League One until recently.

Scott Wootten dropped down a division but now a regular starter for MK Dons in League One.

Saidy Janko is a regular for Saint Etienne in Ligue 1. Davide Petrucci's Turkish side got relegated so he is now in the Turkish 2nd division. Macheda has one goal in Serie B in 7 starts. Last season he managed 7 goals in 16 starts in Serie B. Hope he saved some of his United earnings because it doesn't look like anyone will be offering him big money in the near future. Mats Moller Daehli currently playing the German 2nd division, been injured a big chunk of the time since leaving Cardiff.

Magnus Wolff Eikrem's contract at Malmo seems to be up at the end of 2017. Wasn't featuring much in the 2nd half of the season. Got tons of assists the previous season but productivity way down this season.
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Thanks for that, always nice to know how the young lads, most of them Academy Grads are getting on
 
Sean Goss undergoing medical ahead of potential loan move to Rangers. Not appeared in Championship for QPR this season, though did make the bench for 2 games. Last season got 232 mins in the Championship; his passing stats don't look too clever but perhaps he was attempting very ambitious passes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42555735

Sean was 22 in October and his QPR contract runs until summer 2020.
 
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kundalini said:
Sean Goss undergoing medical ahead of potential loan move to Rangers. Not appeared in Championship for QPR this season, though did make the bench for 2 games. Last season got 232 mins in the Championship; his passing stats don't look too clever but perhaps he was attempting very ambitious passes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42555735

Sean was 22 in October and his QPR contract runs until summer 2020.
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For some obscure reason, Sean Goss still appears on our list of players to choose your team line-up from on here. I have pointed this out a couple of times to the mods, but he's still there!
 
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