The Euro Draft - Round 1 - crappy vs Pedro

[PedroMendez]

I don't think it would be dishonest by any means to have Silva defending the right side like a right winger or right midfielder. That is after all exactly what he did for Spain in almost all matches. Even if he attacks down the central areas he can still do that job defensively.

Letting Tardelli off the mark won't affect this game at all considering he's played as a destroyer DM and that isn't really his game at all. Letting Krol loose however is a pretty damn match changing scenario and I can't see Bene handling Krol very well at all.

Smistik-Netto will operate just in front of Schwarzen-De Boer which is already a very strong "box" where only Platini will be usually, with attacking runs from Ceuelemans in particular. Either way a really solid defensive set up, similar to how Simeone has handled Messi before he was shifted wide.

Silva defending against Tardelli seems a bit pointless as long as Crappy has him playing as a destroyer IMO. It would also mean that Bene would be in a perfect position to launch counter attacks too.

I think overall you are spot on here. I´d definitely go to the touchline to give Silva more accurate instructions. He drops slightly deeper to add cover on my right side, while Bene tends to push forward. So Krol has to decide whether he takes the risk to run into counterattacks or to play more conservative.



My biggest issue with Crappy´s team is, that his two best players (Plataini and Figo) don’t really work that well together, when Platini is utilized as false9. He has to use Puc almost as central forward and my central defense should be able to deal with that, while at the same time it puts pressure of Thuram. If he´d use a slightly more common lineup (e.g. 451) with Platini, Figo + a wide forward/winger behind a #9, I’d be really worried. Still that’s not me shit-talking his team. It’s very strong.


I´d also like to highlight the class of Meazza. Him playing in a free role off Klinsmann, while being supplied by Silva (who played a couple of brilliant passes for that Spanish team) is lethal.

 

[antohan]

Coming to the midfield, unfortunately I did not have the time to draw up something like Balu or Aldo did with false 9 or midfield 4 set ups but I will try to get into it now. The shape of 4 midfielders is meant to be fluid. I hve clearly pointed out that the end goal is to get the best out of Platini so it will be upto others to adjust their positions and role for him. It then comes down to if you think Cuelemans is capable of doing that.

As Platini moves up front you can have a situation like this

or if Platini drops deep then Ceulemans simply takes his place at the head of the midfield to link up with the attacking 2. ..

or you can have those two working in synergy in the central attacking space.

Note : Balu made a fantastic post about how it is not necessary that a 4 man midfield would always do well against the 3 man midfield. For that advantage to be negligible you do need those 3 to be very good all round midfielders. Here one of those 3 in Pedro's team is Silva. In his set up, I simply don't see him some who will work hard enough to even up the midfield battle. Silva in Euros was at his best when his team's midfield was the dominant one. Also in both he played more of an inverted winger or proxy winger forward role.

As mentioned earlier, I don't have a significant problem with the midfield. They'll make it work and Ceulemans is indeed very handy to keep a presence up there if Platini drops deep. I'd rather a more typical holding midfielder who can help dictate play in a way Tardelli won't, but I'm not too fussed.

Now Coming to the attacking unit -

I do not see any issue with Figo and Puc in there.

This is something you will see frequently in this match up ..

- Here Puc does provide that presence up front to Platini, vacating the left to Krol. Here it is more useful for Platini to have Figo on the right as an outlet rather than another forward upfront.

- Or as Platini surges forward, you can have Puc taking away a central defender wide with Ceulemans moving into that vacated central area .

What some typically or specifically want is something like this ..

These players may not have been originally positioned like this in the starting formation but there is no reason why they won't occupy such positions during the match. It is not a rigid formation by any means.

All of these players -

Puc - winger / striker
Figo - left wing/ right wing (at Barca a hybrid of SS/Winger)
Platini - All kinds of midfield, attacking midfield roles
Ceulemans - CM or attacking midfielder role
Tigana and Tardelli - Complete midfielders
Krol - Key part of total football team

have played different kind of roles. Only 3 rigid players are the 2 CBs and RB who provide some stability at the back against the threat of counters.

It's not about occupying places. It's just Figo isn't someone who would occupy and drag a centreback. He is a pure winger and more of a creator/playmaker, which isn't really needed.

For the "Platini false 9 magic" to happen, you need players in the box who will create the space for him. Rossi and Bettega peeling wide, or Rossi and Boniek probing across the frontline, Lacombe and Rocheteau/Bellone...

From what I gather about him, Puc is actually suited to the Bettega/Rocheteau/Bellone role, the unfortunate thing is he is out on the left where you have Krol and the side requiring that is the right.

Effectively, you've provided width on the right (which is necessary) with a different kind of player while positioning the right kind of player on the wrong side, and wound up not having a Rossi/Lacombe in the process.

I'm not picking holes for the sake of it here, I think you still have this game in the bag anyway, but going forward that is NOT a functional frontline that gets the best out of Platini. It simply isn't. Better tell you now and not later when you can do sweet FA about it.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I'd much prefer the aerial threat and intelligent movement of Ceulemans in the centre forward/false 9 position, and Platini more clearly reprising his 1984 role. I'm still leaning heavily towards Crappy based on the sheer quality of his personnel though.

 

[crappycraperson]

As mentioned earlier, I don't have a significant problem with the midfield. They'll make it work and Ceulemans is indeed very handy to keep a presence up there if Platini drops deep. I'd rather a more typical holding midfielder who can help dictate play in a way Tardelli won't, but I'm not too fussed.



It's not about occupying places. It's just Figo isn't someone who would occupy and drag a centreback. He is a pure winger and more of a creator/playmaker, which isn't really needed.

For the "Platini false 9 magic" to happen, you need players in the box who will create the space for him. Rossi and Bettega peeling wide, or Rossi and Boniek probing across the frontline, Lacombe and Rocheteau/Bellone...

From what I gather about him, Puc is actually suited to the Bettega/Rocheteau/Bellone role, the unfortunate thing is he is out on the left where you have Krol and the side requiring that is the right.

Effectively, you've provided width on the right (which is necessary) with a different kind of player while positioning the right kind of player on the wrong side, and wound up not having a Rossi/Lacombe in the process.

I'm not picking holes for the sake of it here, I think you still have this game in the bag anyway, but going forward that is NOT a functional frontline that gets the best out of Platini. It simply isn't. Better tell you now and not later when you can do sweet FA about it.

Yes, I am not disputing that figo will take CBS away, he will occupy cabirini and PUC will be the one to create space in the middle by occupying a cb.

What I disagree with is that krol and PUC are not an ideal partnership.

 

[antohan]

Yes, I am not disputing that figo will take CBS away, he will occupy cabirini and PUC will be the one to create space in the middle by occupying a cb.

What I disagree with is that krol and PUC are not an ideal partnership.

I'm not saying they don't work well. I'm saying you need a CF and a CF-cum-WF. One of them occupies one CB, the other drags the other away as he drifts wide and that's how space materialises between them. If it sounds incredibly simple it is because it was, and it was brutally effective too because Platini played it and timed it masterfully. Everyone watching knew that was the concept, the defenders knew it, yet they couldn't stop him exploiting it week in week out.

Since Figo is neither of the two above, you are already missing one of the two. The "problem" with Puc is that out of the two it is on the right that you need a player like him, not the left. It's not he is incompatible with Krol, it's that Krol is good enough to run the flank, much like Cabrini was for Juve. It is far more important to get width on the other flank were you have Vogts/Gentile, so that's where you need the Puc-like player.

In short, the problem isn't really Puc (so long as he is instructed to start centrally rather than starting wide and cutting in), the problem is Figo.

 

[antohan]

I'd much prefer the aerial threat and intelligent movement of Ceulemans in the centre forward/false 9 position, and Platini more clearly reprising his 1984 role. I'm still leaning heavily towards Crappy based on the sheer quality of his personnel though.

That's why I think he has it in the bag anyway. Ceulemans won't sit around in midfield, he will be all over that defence like a battering ram and they can't control BOTH him and Platini.

 

[crappycraperson]

I'm not saying they don't work well. I'm saying you need a CF and a CF-cum-WF. One of them occupies one CB, the other drags the other away as he drifts wide and that's how space materialises between them. If it sounds incredibly simple it is because it was, and it was brutally effective too because Platini played it and timed it masterfully. Everyone watching knew that was the concept, the defenders knew it, yet they couldn't stop him exploiting it week in week out.

Since Figo is neither of the two above, you are already missing one of the two. The "problem" with Puc is that out of the two it is on the right that you need a player like him, not the left. It's not he is incompatible with Krol, it's that Krol is good enough to run the flank, much like Cabrini was for Juve. It is far more important to get width on the other flank were you have Vogts/Gentile, so that's where you need the Puc-like player.

In short, the problem isn't really Puc (so long as he is instructed to start centrally rather than starting wide and cutting in), the problem is Figo.

I don't agree with that. I Don want to ape a system to a tee since that system has its own weaknesses I would rather not fall into. Krol will work his flank to take on thuram, PUC works the channel between thuram and a cb to force him to move out wide which will create the requisite space for platini. Figo on right keeps his back line stretched creating more space in itself.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I´d also like to highlight the class of Meazza. Him playing in a free role off Klinsmann, while being supplied by Silva (who played a couple of brilliant passes for that Spanish team) is lethal.

Silva was the player in 2012 involved with most goals directly with 5.

• Most goals and assists produced by an individual: 2 goals and 3 assists – David Silva

 

[antohan]

I don't agree with that. I Don want to ape a system to a tee since that system has its own weaknesses I would rather not fall into. Krol will work his flank to take on thuram, PUC works the channel between thuram and a cb to force him to move out wide which will create the requisite space for platini. Figo on right keeps his back line stretched creating more space in itself.

The other CB is then free to keep tabs on Platini. I'm not saying you can't play something different, I'm saying you then don't have 9 in 5 Platini. It's a can't have your cake and eat it kind of situation.

 

[crappycraperson]

Silva was the player in 2012 involved with most goals directly with 5.

• Most goals and assists produced by an individual: 2 goals and 3 assists – David Silva

How much similarity is there between his role in 2012 and in this side. He is playing more akin to a Central attacking midfielder here. In 2012 he was playing in a midfield that had Xavi, Alonso, Biscuits, Cesc and Iniesta. He Iniesta and Cesc played as a part of the front 3 and he pretty much played as some sort of wing forward rather than someone who dropped deep to participate in midfield battle. Hence the high stats. To replicate that role here, he would at least need to play on either wing.

 

[antohan]

@crappycraperson ultimately, I think you will end up playing like this with Ceulemans regularly filling up for the missing CF, and it will work because that's exactly the sort of role Ceulemans would shine in.

But it is pretty clear to me that instead of Figo and Puc you could have one player like Puc on the right, swap around Platini and Ceulemans and you gain a midfielder. You could then have both Tigana and Tardelli playing box-to-box while AN Other anchors.

Spoiler

That would be pretty awesome actually.

 

[PedroMendez]

How much similarity is there between his role in 2012 and in this side. He is playing more akin to a Central attacking midfielder here. In 2012 he was playing in a midfield that had Xavi, Alonso, Biscuits, Cesc and Iniesta. He Iniesta and Cesc played as a part of the front 3 and he pretty much played as some sort of wing forward rather than someone who dropped deep to participate in midfield battle. Hence the high stats. To replicate that role here, he would at least need to play on either wing.

Silva wasn´t enabled but restricted by playing on the wing. He is much better in a central position. I agree that too much defensive work would hamper his ability, but I don’t think that’s the case in my lineup. Yes, he has to do some defensive work, but he has two defensive minded player behind him. It’s not like he has to run only backwards. If you really follow through with this argument, you´d have to question how Krol/Ceuleman/Figo are affected by their defensive duty.

 

[MJJ]

Went with crappy, phenomenal side.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Hard on Pedro. I see him operating better as 4-2-3-1 rather than the 4-3-3 he went with. Frees Cabrini more and puts pressure on Vogts.

 

[PedroMendez]

Not really too harsh. I kind of expected it. He simply has the better players and while his system is flawed so is mine. I´d argue differently if my front-line would be different. I think my midfield is slightly underrated so.

 

[antohan]

Not really too harsh. I kind of expected it. He simply has the better players and while his system is flawed so is mine. I´d argue differently if my front-line would be different. I think my midfield is slightly underrated so.

What do you see as the flaw in your frontline? I agree your midfield is your downfall here.

 

[PedroMendez]

What do you see as the flaw in your frontline? I agree your midfield is your downfall here.

Voting against me because of the midfield is kind of weird. I dont think his one is any better. Neither in quality nor in terms of the system. His front3 is clearly better so and additionally Platini and Figo are certanly vote-winners.
I dont really like Meazza in this role and both Klinsmann and Bene are not necessarily top-class player in this draft. Somehow i botched it to pick someone for the left side. That would have allowed me to play Meazza up front or to change the system to asymmetrical 4-4-2ish thing with Silva on the right side and Meazza playing off Klinsmann.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Well somebody has to play the devil's advocate here...

Ceulemans high point of his career was Euro '80 in which he played as a SS, not close to the role he is playing here.
Having 2 strikers to keep defenders occupied enable Platini to be at this peak. Here in this set up with both CB's and a DM in that area I don't see crappy's team from scoring. Had it not been the quality of individual players, it would have been a different story.

 

[crappycraperson]

Well somebody has to play the devil's advocate here...

Ceulemans high point of his career was Euro '80 in which he played as a SS, not close to the role he is playing here.
Having 2 strikers to keep defenders occupied enable Platini to be at this peak. Here in this set up with both CB's and a DM in that area I don't see crappy's team from scoring. Had it not been the quality of individual players, it would have been a different story.

Complete nonsense, does not even merit any kind of response.

 

[Mani]

Crappy with great set of players,I think he can win this draft.

 

[Moby]

@Aldo /\ /\ /\

Haha, brilliant.

 

[Moby]

Yeah, that had a wonderful balance in attack until you fecked up the striker position by selling Weah without knowing that you can't buy a replacement .

 

[PedroMendez]

@crappycraperson
good luck in the tournament. Not much to talk about; you clearly have the better team. I can see you winning the whole draft, if you tweak your system.

 

[crappycraperson]

@crappycraperson
good luck in the tournament. Not much to talk about; you clearly have the better team. I can see you winning the whole draft, if you tweak your system.

Thanks. I will ponder about it.