The Double Draft - SF: Chesterlestreet vs harms

Who will win the match?


  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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........................................ TEAM CHESTER .........................................vs.................................... TEAM HARMS ..................................

Team Chesterlestreet

COMMENTS:

I've gone back to the original approach here – the one I had in mind at the beginning, when I decided to build a team that is rock solid defensively, tactically astute, filled with hard workers and team players, and capable of quick transitions which are likely to lead to goal scoring opportunities. I didn't have a wingback setup in mind, explicitly, but pretty soon I concluded that this basic model (a variation on the 3-5-2 or 5-3-2, a classic formation used by several great and highly successful managers over the years) makes the most sense – at least as the default one. I believe I have upgraded the team from the first round match considerably – and I believe the upgrades are logical, i.e. they haven't been picked simply because they're better individually and/or greater names, but because they can plausibly do precisely what I ask of them here – while playing on the top of their game. The way I see it, the 3-5-2/5-3-2 is a basic model which allows for much improvisation: The configuration you go for beyond the basic 3+2 defensive part can be practically anything within reason: I have gone for a 2-1-2 of sorts, with a DM (Rijkaard), an allrounder CM (Falcão), a mainly offensive midfielder (Charlton), a second striker whose role is the freest in the team (Cruyff) and a centre forward (Müller).

The roles here should be clear-cut with one possible exception, so I will keep this brief. The central defensive trio reprise their roles from the first match. The difference is that they're now playing ahead of arguably the greatest goal keeper in football history. The wingback roles are self-explanatory. I consider Lizarazu an upgrade on Briegel since he is more of a specialist (with the German being more of an allrounder).

The midfield combo is pretty straight-forward and the roles have been described above. Specific comment: Moore will carry the ball forward to look for passing alternatives to some degree (he will do so when it's opportune, simply put – it's part of his natural game, after all) and part of Rijkaard's brief is to cover for him when he ventures forward: Standard stuff.

The two “strikers” in this setup are very different. Müller's game should be familiar to most – but like I did in the last match, I will point out that he is far from being a stationary box player. Cruyff's role is what it all comes down to, I suppose, in terms of buying the team at this stage of the draft: It's a free role, simply put. He isn't a “partner” to Müller in the normal sense. He will roam around freely – and he will be the team's main orchestrator. The arrows indicate this free roaming aspect (imperfectly – I wish SMT had more arrow options). This too, as I see it, is logical. It sounds a bit too easy to simply slap that "free role" label on a player - and then expect him to do maximum damage without further instruction. But Cruyff's natural game is entirely in line with the role - I'm not expecting him to do anything he didn't normally do, nor to influence the match in a way which is not realistic. Whether one thinks that influence will tip the scales - as I'm inclined to myself - or not, is up for debate. But that he is better suited than most to playing just such a "free role" (knowing where to involve himself, in what exact capacity, without sticking to a script) shouldn't be a controversial claim.

Key points: Three top-of-the-line central defenders whose main function is obviously to fight it out with my opponent's extremely dangerous attackers. A tactically astute and defensively sound CM who is instructed to keep his game “balanced”. A specialist DM who can be called, without exaggerating, the greatest ever in his position. A pair of WBs who are good enough offensively to make the attack a five-man unit. Three GOATs as the chief attackers, with a free-roaming Cruyff commanding the troops.

That's it. Will it be enough? In terms of winning the vote? Who knows, but I'm sure this team would prove a handful for any opponent – and that's enough for me.
 
Team harms

Summary

A slight shift of personnel and the undoubted quality of Chester's team forced me to change the formation and approach. We will play in a slightly conservative 5-2-3 formation that allows my fullbacks to fully exploit their attacking potential and provides more space and freedom to my attacking unit. All my players are well-suited to the counter-attacking approach, so I will rely on the quick transitions and defensive solidity. The only specified task is given to Claudio Gentile - he is man-marking Johan Cruyff.

In details

Goalkeeper

Peter fecking Schmeichel. Enough said.

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Defence


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Nilton Santos and Cafu will form a classic wing-back pairing, equally capable of attacking and defending, providing width and closing down opposition's wide players - they are both known as one of the finest attacking fullbacks in the game without any questions about their defensive ability. The great Elias Figueroa, whose defensive game is simply second to none (out of the great sweepers/liberos I would only rank Baresi's defensive qualities on par with his, although Scirea and Beckenbauer have an edge offensively) is flanked by two of the best ever Italian defenders - tough as nails and positionally outstanding Ballon D'Or winning Fabio Cannavaro and Scirea's famous sidekick Claudio Gentile, one of the greatest man-markers in history.

Please read the spoilers

Important. Gentile will have a crucial role here, while Cannavaro and Figueroa will mainly stay at the back maintaining defensive shape, Gentile is granted a free role to follow Cruyff everywhere on the pitch. Gentile's man-marking pedigree includes the likes of Maradona and Zico in 1982 at the World Cup and multiple times in the league, and while there is an argument now that he had got away with murder, he always functioned within the rules, not once being sent off the pitch during his prolonged career. I believe that he shares a lot of qualities with Berti Vogts, who kept Cruyff quiet for 89 minutes in the 1974 World Cup final, and his tenacity, selflessness and awareness of the situation will definitely help him to minimize Cruyff's influence on the game.
It's almost impossible to defend against Gerd Müller, but if I were to pick two defenders to face him, Figueroa and Cannavaro would've been at the top on my list. Outstanding reading of the game, physical qualities, concentration and quick reaction - they had it all and they are agile enough to keep up with Müller's trademark turns. In fact, Figueroa faced Gerd Müller at his peak and I haven't seen anyone handling the great German better - due to his colossal performance, very average Chile side lost 1:0 to the future World champions West Germany, conceding only an unsaveable screamer by Breitner.


Cannavaro in his pomp:


Midfield

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Desailly and Luisito Suarez will form a midfield duo. It's a classic destroyer/deep-lying playmaker combo, like Desailly himself formed with Albertini at AC Milan or Suarez with Bedin at Inter. Desailly is arguably the greatest defensive midfielder in history (his only counterpart in my eyes is on the other side of the pitch today, but like with the Figueroa - Beckenbauer comparison, I rate Desailly marginally higher as a defensive player and Rijkaard as an overall footballer), a force of nature with endless stamina, the running and jumping brick wall, and Luisito is one of the finest midfield playmakers ever, combining genius passing game, vision and dribbling with his outstanding workrate. I don't expect to dominate possession here, but I believe that this pairing will allow me a smooth and quick transition between my defence and attack while also making the life difficult for Chester's midfielders (who are also top-notch).

Desailly against Barcelona in the European Cup final

A random game from Luisito (credit to Joga)


Attack

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Like the midfield, my attack is pretty straightforward. Three of the finest attackers ever (who won a total of 11 Ballon D'Ors between them, and I'm not even counting the next one that will probably go to Cristiano) will form a frightening trio - Ronaldo cutting in from the left wing and scoring, van Basten spearheading the attack, scoring from every angle and dovetailing well with Cristiano, like he did with the likes of Gullit, and Messi in a slightly deeper free-roaming role on the right, who will do whatever he feels is right - moving deeper to secure the midfield, launching those cross-field passes to Ronaldo, picking a through-balls to van Basten and Cristiano or going forward himself.

Most of my players at the top of their game represented counter-attacking sides like Italy, La Grande Inter, Trapp's Juve, Sacchi's/Capello's AC Milan etc. They are used to sitting deep, soaking up the pressure and then hitting the opposition on the break. Even Leo Messi, who is synonymous with Barca's tiki-taka play, actually thrives in the Enrique's counter-attacking system.
Pep Guardiola said before Bayern - Barcelona game: "Barça have become the best counter-attacking team in the world"
Except for the first minute, which resulted in the penalty kick for Netherlands, Johan Cruyff was almost anonymous in the World Cup final - and it was mostly due to the outstanding man-marking job by Berti Vogts. I believe that Vogts and Gentile share a lot of similar qualities to emulate each other - and it's not like Gentile doesn't have a credentials of his own, it was his famous (or infamous) man-marking of Maradona and Zico in 1982 (and later multiple times in the league) that secured an unlikely World Cup win for Italy.

Re: the referee argument - Gentile always was cautious about the referee's reactions and not once had he been sent off, so I don't think that the argument about his style of play being unacceptable by the rules today is justified. Especially when he plays against a footballer from the 70's and not the modern one.

Gentile vs Maradona (highlights of him against Zico can be found on youtube)


Subs

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Maier, Evra, Zito, Masopust, Bonhof, Dzajic, Boniek, Seeler
 
Brilliant team @Chesterlestreet, spot on tactically and filled with my personal favorites so I can't even criticize it. Good luck and may the best team win

  • Messi and Cafu vs Lizarazu and Förster is probably the most obvious path to the goal for me, not that it's a glaring mismatch though
  • With Gentile doing a Vogts on Cruyff and Figueroa plus Cannavaro looking after Müller I cover Chester's main attacking threats pretty well - as well as it's possible with that calibre of players, I'd say
If someone is too lazy to open the spoilers in the OP, here's the video of Figueroa's colossal performance against West Germany in 1974 - like I mentioned earlier, I don't think that I've seen anyone handling Gerd Müller better than Elias Figueroa did in that game
 
WOW! @Chesterlestreet epic team.
I dont usually vote so early but i cant see any argument or a change that @harms could do to convince me into switching sides even though i was a big fan of his team in previous rounds.
 
@Chesterlestreet Any reason for playing Cruyff left? I thought given history Bobby C will roam that left AM area with Cruyff doing the same right.


Gentile's strength is man-marking first and foremost, and a specific one - he targeted short agile players in the mould of Maradona, Zico and Platini.

Cruyff doesn't exactly fit the mold you described above, so why would he be as effective here? Personally I doubt Gentile's effectiveness here. Whereas Maradona/Zico were dribbling passers who need the ball, Cruyff's game was based on space and off the ball movement. That 1974 finals is a weird one. Not in any way dismissing Vogts brilliance here, but it was not Cryuff's usual game for off-field reasons.
 
@harms cannavaro looks out of place in this game . I know he is a ballon d'or winner but he was mostly underwhelming at Madrid . Luckily the rest of your side is nigh on unbeatable for me . Would have liked to see 4-3-2-1 as I don't think it would be to your detriment
 
Cruyff doesn't exactly fit the mold you described above, so why would he be as effective here? Personally I doubt Gentile's effectiveness here. Whereas Maradona/Zico were dribbling passers who need the ball, Cruyff's game was based on space and off the ball movement. That 1974 finals is a weird one. Not in any way dismissing Vogts brilliance here, but it was not Cryuff's usual game for off-field reasons.
I rewatched the final beforehand looking specifically at Vogts and Cruyff and what Vogts did was basically what Gentile did 8 years later, I actually think that he was influenced by this game in his approach, even though he doesn't say it anywhere (or at least I haven't seen it). There are different styles of man-marking, Bergomi is a completely different kettle of fish, for example, but Vogts and Gentile are pretty similar when given a pure man-marking task.
 
@harms cannavaro looks out of place in this game . I know he is a ballon d'or winner but he was mostly underwhelming at Madrid . Luckily the rest of your side is nigh on unbeatable for me
Not sure what his Madrid spell does to do with anything as he was past his peak, that World Cup performance was the highest point of his career after finally overtaking Nesta as the best defender in Italy in the last 2 years (before that he had like 3 or 4 second place finishes behind him :lol:), and his career went downhill after that. I don't like Moore's performance in Escape to Victory but it doesn't mean that he is out of place here for example.
 
WOW! @Chesterlestreet epic team.
I dont usually vote so early but i cant see any argument or a change that @harms could do to convince me into switching sides even though i was a big fan of his team in previous rounds.
No worries, Chester's team is clearly fantastic and if you don't buy into Figueroa nullifying Müller (which happened in real life) and Gentile limiting Cruyff's influence (which requires imagination and belief, so it's completely based on your assessment of the players), than there's nothing I can do about it.
 
Moreso - it was Cannavaro's arrival (alongside Capello's) that elevated Juventus from a 3rd placed team with 42 goals conceded in 34 games to the champion that conceded just 27 goals in 38 games in 2004/05 and 24 goals in 38 games in 2005/06. Even without his magical World Cup performance he is certainly one of the outstanding defenders of his generation and he can rival Nesta for the stopper's position in Italy's all-time eleven. Also, 136 caps for Italy

@DavidG
 
Not sure what his Madrid spell does to do with anything as he was past his peak, that World Cup performance was the highest point of his career after finally overtaking Nesta as the best defender in Italy in the last 2 years (before that he had like 3 or 4 second place finishes behind him :lol:), and his career went downhill after that. I don't like Moore's performance in Escape to Victory but it doesn't mean that he is out of place here for example.

Cannavaro couldn't lace nestas boots
 


Take note of van Basten's movement all over the final third, hold up play and smart passes

Marcel Desailly said:
He was elegance personified. He could score in millions of different ways and always with an unbelievable touch of class. He had no weak points – he was completely two-footed, and he was strong with his head, but he didn’t just score goals, he also created many, many assists. It is a shame that he stopped playing at such a young age. Had he continued into his thirties, I think he could have become a great ‘number 10’
 
Brilliant team @Chesterlestreet, spot on tactically and filled with my personal favorites so I can't even criticize it. Good luck and may the best team win

I can only echo this, man - I honestly don't know who I'd fancy here.

I think I have your number - slightly - in some areas. But then you have mine in others.

Gentile on Cruyff is something I considered - but then again, there's nothing to be done about it: A marking job is what it is. It would be naive - or downright disingenuous - of me to pretend this won't make any difference. But my stance on marking jobs in these drafts remains the same (I argued almost the exact same case on Pelé's behalf in another draft *): You have to factor in several things. Gentile is an expert man marker - Cruyff is a GOAT. Both presumably playing at the top of their game. If slapping a marker on a player of Cruyff's calibre had been a foolproof measure, well - football history would have been written differently. It doesn't always work: If the marker slips up once, he can get away with it - if he slips up twice...bang.

But again, it'd be nothing short of foolish to claim there's no way Cruyff's game might be hampered to some degree by being man marked. The question is how much: There are shades there from being taken out of the match to being slightly less effective.

* Unsuccessfully :lol:
 
I've always thought Thuram would be Cristiano Ronaldo's kryptonite in a straight match-up - physically, mentally, positionally, tactically. On the other side, Messi stands to get some more joy in the inside-right channel which could well be decisive. Then again, Moore is one of the absolute best in that covering role, snuffing out a bit of danger as it threatens to explode. Harms has the more expansive wing-backs, Chester the stronger midfield unit - is Desailly going to be overworked here? Will Harms double up on the flanks with his wide attackers?
 
On the other side, Messi stands to get some more joy in the inside-right channel which could well be decisive.

Could be - of course. I will point out, though, that while Förster isn't tasked with shadowing Messi per se, he is a first rate defender who is there to - well - defend that side of the area. Messi won't find it easy to bring his trickery into the box - of that I'm fairly sure. Lizarazu will, of course, help out too: He's not a grand or imposing defender, but an effective player defensively - one who operated as a straight fullback as well as a wingback (and he did the former for teams that wouldn't stand for sloppy defending).

Given that this will be - as I see it - about transitions as much as methodical build-ups, I guess it comes down to (at least partly - and perhaps even mainly) how well the teams are able to cope with being hit on the counter: My strongest cards there are a) the back line itself, who won't be standing high up the pitch per default - and Rijkaard, functioning as an added defender (and a top class one at that).
 


Messi and Cafu would link up better than this and make lizarazu/ Forster appear a bit silly in this game
 
Anyway, I'm off to take care of some work - will check back, of course.

I think the picture is pretty clear here, which is further helped by the teams being set up in a fairly similar fashion. Much of this will come down to how the players are rated, I think. None of us have made any horrible calls here, as far as I can see - and what I said above is the truth: I don't know who I'd gone for myself. If harms' attack works as he intends it to, it will be devastating - perhaps more than my defence can cope with.

My own attack is less obviously devastating - and will perhaps be more of an acquired taste for some.

On the flipside I do think my defence, regarded as such, is stronger than his. And objectively, I rate my midfield duo above harms'.

His wingbacks are obviously better than mine - and the keepers? Oh, well - that's anybody's guess. At least we've done our share when it comes to not fielding shite keepers in these things.
 
Cannavaro couldn't lace nestas boots
Messi and Cafu would link up better than this and make lizarazu/ Forster appear a bit silly in this game

You seem to have dead set fixed opinions :lol:

harms sports better fullbacks, but I like Chester's back 3 as a unit. Forster is a class defender and a top man-marker. I do not believe either team has a one vs one advantage here considering the defensive unit as a whole. harms has a better attack and I like Chester's defence better, so it's still very close for me.
 
Messi and Cafu would link up better than this and make lizarazu/ Forster appear a bit silly in this game

You're talking about players who are rated among the best ever in their respective positions - and who have World Cups, Euros and Champions League titles between them. I don't think they would look particularly silly regardless of what happens here.

The Messi/Cafu combo is potentially deadly and it's by no means unlikely that it could prove an important factor here. Hyperbole is unnecessary.
 


Messi and Cafu would link up better than this and make lizarazu/ Forster appear a bit silly in this game


Did Cafu ever really play like that? He was far more orthodox in his wing play than Dani Alves IMO, and I don't recall him thrusting into the middle of the pitch with any regularity at all. He was brilliant, a far better defender than Alves and a great attacking threat in his own right, but that Messi/Alves combination was incredible and I'm not sure that Cafu would improve it in an attacking sense.
 
Did Cafu ever really play like that? He was far more orthodox in his wing play than Dani Alves IMO, and I don't recall him thrusting into the middle of the pitch with any regularity at all. He was brilliant, a far better defender than Alves and a great attacking threat in his own right, but that Messi/Alves combination was incredible and I'm not sure that Cafu would improve it in an attacking sense.

I see Cafu as being better than alves at everything, if anything he would free Messi up even more due to his increased attacking threat .
 
I see Cafu as being better than alves at everything, if anything he would free Messi up even more due to his increased attacking threat .

I can't see Cafu/Messi being an improvement on Alves/Messi as an attacking partnership personally. I can see Cafu's more traditional style of stretching the play and providing crosses/cut backs benefitting van Basten more though, especially as he'll be getting less service from Ronaldo than he did from Dzajic last match.
 
I can't see Cafu/Messi being an improvement on Alves/Messi as an attacking partnership personally. I can see Cafu's more traditional style of stretching the play and providing crosses/cut backs benefitting van Basten more though, especially as he'll be getting less service from Ronaldo than he did from Dzajic last match.
Cafu adds his incredible physicality to the offensive part of the game - and he used it quite brilliantly, simply overpowering many of his opponents. Can't say that he is a definite upgrade on Alves offensively though (I believe that Nilton Santos is more comparable to him, actually, with a more inventive attacking game and even playmaking tendencies), but you're right on van Basten and Cristiano benefitting from his overlaps

More inventive attacking game from Cafu - dribbles, goals, assists

Classic overlaps:


The switch between Maldini and Nilton Santos actually allowed me to use Cristiano instead of Dzajic as Santos provides more attacking threat from the left than the Italian did - this, and pushing Cafu forward, obviously. I still lost a little on the quality of the delivery, but I believe that those two minimized the damage to the creative side of my game, while Cristiano added his insane goal threat to the equation.
 
Even without his magical World Cup performance he is certainly one of the outstanding defenders of his generation and he can rival Nesta for the stopper's position in Italy's all-time eleven.

Silly hyperbole - Nesta was a clear tier or two above Cannavaro as a defender.

In terms of actual defending Nesta is right up there with Baresi as the best of all time.
 
Silly hyperbole - Nesta was a clear tier or two above Cannavaro as a defender.

In terms of actual defending Nesta is right up there with Baresi as the best of all time.
Agreed. Canna's a brilliant defender himself but he has his moments of madness, even at his peak, every now and then as well as the fact that he's not as complete a defender as Nesta is. Nesta is far more than a stopper, and along with Thuram the most complete defender of his generation who was able to cut out an array of strikers. He was the pillar of the unbeatable Milan defense under Ancelotti, when Maldini had started to age.
 
Silly hyperbole - Nesta was a clear tier or two above Cannavaro as a defender.

In terms of actual defending Nesta is right up there with Baresi as the best of all time.
I would pick Nesta before Cannavaro myself, but the difference between them wasn't as big as you say here in my opinion. Certainly not "two tiers above".

Nesta was the best defender in the world from 2000 to 2004, Cannavaro was for two years after until 2006 - and his peak was absolutely immense. He won Serie A player of the year (the only defender to do so, not even Nesta or Maldini had won it) a few weeks before even the beginning of the 2006 World Cup; he won two Serie A defender of the year awards in 2005 and 2006; He came second only to Nesta in Serie A defender of the year voting in 2000, 2001, 2002;

Nesta was more talented and all-rounded but their actual careers weren't that different in terms of the outcome and quality of their game. Cannavaro was more physical, Nesta was more elegant and better positionally. But to say that Nesta is as good as Baresi defensively is, I'm sorry, a much sillier hyperbole than the one I supposedly posted earlier.

Edit: oh, you have Nesta in your team.
 
Chester +++

Luis Suarez has a key role here because I understand he has to make the bridge between the offensive & defensive players in the central area.

And the task won't be so easy given the fact that Rijkaard seems to be considered as the greatest modern #6.

I won't deny the exceptional quality of Dessailly but Barcelona (in the video posted) was in a bad shape for diverse reasons (long hard battle with Deportivo for the Liga title, then big fiesta a few days before the final not to mention the over-confidence of Cruyff when it comes to play against Milan). I'm certainly biased because I have considered him as a stopper.

So, Charlton is a position to shine here imho.

Gerd Muller is an unorthodox GOAT: not born to play beautiful football but to score in any circumstances

Harms +++

Arguably superior players on the wings

Cafu will have the freedom to attack offensively as Gentile could play the role of RB.

Nilton Santos & Messi will have the opportunity to shine especially
 
I would pick Nesta before Cannavaro myself, but the difference between them wasn't as big as you say here in my opinion. Certainly not "two tiers above".

Nesta was the best defender in the world from 2000 to 2004, Cannavaro was for two years after until 2006 - and his peak was absolutely immense. He won Serie A player of the year (the only defender to do so, not even Nesta or Maldini had won it) a few weeks before even the beginning of the 2006 World Cup; he won two Serie A defender of the year awards in 2005 and 2006; He came second only to Nesta in Serie A defender of the year voting in 2000, 2001, 2002;

Nesta was more talented and all-rounded but their actual careers weren't that different in terms of the outcome and quality of their game. Cannavaro was more physical, Nesta was more elegant and better positionally. But to say that Nesta is as good as Baresi defensively is, I'm sorry, a much sillier hyperbole than the one I supposedly posted earlier.

Edit: oh, you have Nesta in your team.

He prepares the game of tomorrow :lol:
 
I won't deny the exceptional quality of Dessailly but Barcelona was in a very bad shape for diverse reasons (long hard battle with Deportivo for the Liga title, then big fiesta a few days before the final not to mention the over-confidence of Cruyff when it comes to play against Milan). I'm certainly biased because I have considered him as a stopper.


Gerd Muller is an unorthodox GOAT: not born to play beautiful football but to score in any circumstances
1. It's not like Desailly played one good game against Barca as a defensive midfielder, his whole Milan career he was playing as one (he was actually bought as Boban's replacement), and in that purely defensive role he was unmatched, using the same skills as he did as a stopper for France
2. But he is up against Figueroa, who was born to not allow anyone to score in any circumstances, and successfully did so with G. Müller
 
Of course, Nesta (peak) > Cannavaro (peak).

Unfortunately many injuries. Sad because Nesta at the age of 20 was a boss.
 
1. It's not like Desailly played one good game against Barca as a defensive midfielder, his whole Milan career he was playing as one (he was actually bought as Boban's replacement), and in that purely defensive role he was unmatched, using the same skills as he did as a stopper for France
2. But he is up against Figueroa, who was born to not allow anyone to score in any circumstances, and successfully did so with G. Müller

1. You're right :)

2. Yeah. I understand he is considered by many as the greatest South-American defender of All-Times
 
Tempted to take my vote off you* harms , great football knowledge but saying you wouldn't take nesta over cannavaro is madness even if Fabio is your team captain.

*I won't actually take my vote off you.
 
I would pick Nesta before Cannavaro myself, but the difference between them wasn't as big as you say here in my opinion. Certainly not "two tiers above".

Nesta was the best defender in the world from 2000 to 2004, Cannavaro was for two years after until 2006 - and his peak was absolutely immense. He won Serie A player of the year (the only defender to do so, not even Nesta or Maldini had won it) a few weeks before even the beginning of the 2006 World Cup; he won two Serie A defender of the year awards in 2005 and 2006; He came second only to Nesta in Serie A defender of the year voting in 2000, 2001, 2002;

Nesta was more talented and all-rounded but their actual careers weren't that different in terms of the outcome and quality of their game. Cannavaro was more physical, Nesta was more elegant and better positionally. But to say that Nesta is as good as Baresi defensively is, I'm sorry, a much sillier hyperbole than the one I supposedly posted earlier.

Edit: oh, you have Nesta in your team.

We have Baresi in our team as well so I'm not sure what your point is.

Saying that Nesta was as good as Baresi defensively isn't hyperbole - Baresi was the more complete footballer and brought technical qualities to the table that Nesta never did, but in terms of actual defending Nesta was every bit as good as Baresi. He was fantastic in the air, an excellent marker, flawless positionally, completely clean in the tackle - he did all those things better than Cannavaro and as good as Baresi ever did.

I've said it before but you rate players far too much based on where they rank in these online lists (which are often nonsense). Baresi was clearly the better overall player but as a defender Nesta was pretty much his equal.

In terms of Cannvaro - he was a level or two below and for me would be just below Ferdinand when it comes to centre backs of the last two decades or so. Very good defender but certainly not a candidate for an all-time Italian XI as you stated.
 
Edit: oh, you have Nesta in your team.
And you have Cannavaro. :D

As far as the comparison with Baresi goes, if you are talking of pure defensive skills and take out the leadership and forward play out of the equation, it's really not an unfair comment. Nesta's defending was close to flawless with very little or no weakness.