The Double Draft - R1: Downcast vs Tuppet

[Ecstatic]

From the research I have done on Marzolini, he is a very balanced full back and a solid defender. So I see no issues with him next to Passarella.

Marzoli is considered as the Greatest Argentinian LB so I won't criticize him given the fact he played in the 60s and I don't know him.

The same for Passarella - the Greatest Argentinian Sweeper of All-Time.

The issue is rather Schneider, a good German AM (playing on the right at his prime, no?) whose impact would be very limited here. And his role is - in theory - crucial because he has to orchestrate the game of Tuppet.

 

[Ecstatic]

welk maybe not anonymous . Wes brown is obviously the weakest player on the pitch ( IMO) so if you attack him often , Matthews won't be put to as much good use . The lack of a creative force in the middle means you don't have someone playing forward who can mix it up in terms of feeding stoichkov/ Matthews .

Wes Brown - at his prime - was capable to do the job and win some trophies (part of the starting 11 in the European Champions League Final in 2008): we are talking about a RB. I understand he is unfortunately a prone-injury player.

Schneider is the #10 here. Ceratinly a fantastic player, but a player who hasn't won a single trophy. So question mark about his leadership skills and his greatness in a context of 'Draft showing the Greatest Players of All-Time'.

Sample question: who is - in theory - the most important player on the pitch? The #10 or the RB ?

 

[Physiocrat]

Well I kinda disagree that you need 2 Djalma Santos on full back positions to accommodate Passarella. I would equate the role of Marzolini here similar to the role of Tarintini in his world cup squad. If memory serve correctly in Fiorentina he used to have Carboni on left and Gentile on right, again a fairly similar lineup to what we have here. When attacking on the left side Stoichkov has the choice to cut inside and when there is that space on left any of Marzolini, Robson or Schneider would fill it in. Thats how I envisage the attacking to go from that side.

One of my observations when I was researching on Passarella was that he was a defender's defender first and a sweeper/libero later. He was much more aggressive stopper than say Kaiser or Scirea, who were more dominant and control the game from back.

Do you know who Fiorentina played on the left? Was it more an inside forward or more of a left-winger?

My concern is not Marzolini, he got in the All-Star 1966 team on his defensive performances, but the role he may have to play to allow Stoichkov sufficient freedom. My concern is playing a more attacking role behind an inside forward may prevent Passarella playing at his best going forward

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Wes Brown - at his prime - was capable to do the job and win some trophies (ECL in 2008): we are talking about a RB.

Schneider is the #10 here. Ceratinly a fantastic player, but a player who hasn't won a single trophy. So question mark about his leadership skills and his greatness in a context of 'Draft showing the Greatest Players of All-Time'.

Sample question: who is - in theory - the most important player on the pitch? The #10 or the RB ?

If we are going to use the " never won a trophy " argument then are we to say that jordi cruyff is a better player than matt le tissier ?

 

[Ecstatic]

If we are going to use the " never won a trophy " argument then are we to say that jordi cruyff is a better player than matt le tissier ?

The Greatest players make you win a game and.. trophies.

And to win trophies, you have to win the most important games and play well when the level is at the highest.

Ballack & Schneider used to play together: not the same CV I mean, maybe because one of them is simply stronger.

 

[Enigma_87]

Do you know who Fiorentina played on the left? Was it more an inside forward or more of a left-winger?

My concern is not Marzolini, he got in the All-Star 1966 team on his defensive performances, but the role he may have to play to allow Stoichkov sufficient freedom. My concern is playing a more attacking role behind an inside forward may prevent Passarella playing at his best going forward

Marzolini is more defensive minded than offensive from what I know of him. He supported the attack occasionally but usually he went as far as around the halfway line. He's very good fit if Passarella surges forward as he can provide cover and stay at the back. He's by no means a wing back. He's a bit like Djalma Santos in that sense.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Downcast:
- Don't really rate Careca at this level.
- Maradona/Puskas seems a bit overlapping and narrow. I think he'd find it difficult to stretch defence and playing in same area as Robson/Souness will curb their productivity much.

Tuppet:
- More attacking/balanced FB's needed to get this to work optimally.
- I love Robson/Souness, but in this case a DLP would have been a better partner to either. Someone who can take add creativity to Schneider. Blanchflower, Valderrama etc went unpicked.

Stoichkov vs Brown is the biggest mismatch of the game and with Romario there, help from Scirea would be minimal, imo.

 

[Ecstatic]

- Don't really rate Careca at this level.
- Maradona/Puskas seems a bit overlapping and narrow. I think he'd find it difficult to stretch defence and playing in same area as Robson/Souness will curb their productivity much.

Puskas is a left-footed forward/striker while Maradona is an attacking/playmaking midfielder. The partnership Di Stefano-Puskas was successful in Madrid imho.

Regarding Careca, his stats with Brazil & Napoli make think he has the level required for this draft and the objective was to have a hard-working #9 with the sense of sacrifice.

 

[Isotope]

A very even game. But Downcast Gk is really a put off for me.

 

[Raees]

A very even game. But Downcast Gk is really a put off for me.

Clearly an ass man here folks.

 

[Ecstatic]

A very even game. But Downcast Gk is really a put off for me.

Ter Stegen played 7 games only in the last 2 seasons regarding La Liga (Bravo plays La Liga games and Ter Stegen the Cup games).

Areola played a big role in the season of Villareal: 4th defence of La Liga and 4th ranking.

Any reason is a good reason and you have the right to say a GK is weak because you don't know him.

 

[Isotope]

Ter Stegen played 7 games only in the last 2 seasons regarding La Liga (Bravo plays La Liga games and Ter Stegen the Cup games).

Areola played a big role in the season of Villareal: 4th defence of La Liga and 4th ranking.

Any reason is a good reason and you have the right to say a GK is weak because you don't know him.

Yeh. I don't know why you go for an unknown Gk with very little professional games. Any reason?

Clearly an ass man here folks.

I'm more into pretty face. But a nice ass wouldn't hurt, though.

 

[Enigma_87]

Ter Stegen played 7 games only in the last 2 seasons regarding La Liga (Bravo plays La Liga games and Ter Stegen the Cup games).

Areola played a big role in the season of Villareal: 4th defence of La Liga and 4th ranking.

Any reason is a good reason and you have the right to say a GK is weak because you don't know him.

Is he a good person, cause it sounds he is a bit of a tit?

I'll take my coat.

Yeh. I don't know why you go for an unknown Gk with very little professional games. Any reason?

I'm more into pretty face. But a nice ass wouldn't hurt, though.

1. Body
2. Tits
3. Face

get your priorities right man.

 

[Physiocrat]

Marzolini is more defensive minded than offensive from what I know of him. He supported the attack occasionally but usually he went as far as around the halfway line. He's very good fit if Passarella surges forward as he can provide cover and stay at the back. He's by no means a wing back. He's a bit like Djalma Santos in that sense.

I think he was more attacking than just the half way line at club level but anyway. I'd have no problem with Marzolini with Passarella if Tuppet had a proper left winger, say Giggs as when Passarella bombed forward the attack would have all the options as normal. In this case an attack with Passarella will a mute to some extent Stoichkov as he's likely stick wide.

This is though a small criticism as any team with Romario and Sir Stan is a force to be reckoned with; I'm a big Matthews fan, from what I've seen I'd rate him higher than Garrincha (still have to see the '62 World Cup final though). I also like the idea of Souness and Robson as box-to-box to limit Maradona. Schnieder though is a little underwhelming, but can see why you played him although I'd probably have put Laudrup in as he was hardly a lazy player.

On Downcast's team my main beef is Careca isn't really good enough at this level, Vieri would be a better option. I think though that Puskas will work well with a wing-back in that inside left position.

I reckon this would be close but I can see Downcast nicking it 2-1

 

[Enigma_87]

I think he was more attacking than just the half way line at club level but anyway. I'd have no problem with Marzolini with Passarella if Tuppet had a proper left winger, say Giggs as when Passarella bombed forward the attack would have all the options as normal. In this case an attack with Passarella will a mute to some extent Stoichkov as he's likely stick wide.

He joined the attack, but his main strength was in the air and defensive abilities. Not that much of an overlapping full back in a sense of Carlos Alberto and the likes. That's why I compared him to Djalma Santos - he also joined the attack but was more appreciated for being defensively very solid.

I've seen some games from the WC and looked a bit conservative to me, have no idea how he was at Boca of course.

 

[Ecstatic]

Yeh. I don't know why you go for an unknown Gk with very little professional games. Any reason?

I know you are not serious but I will answer your question. The followers of the French league or La Liga know him.

23 years & 104 games as a professional player. He is now the GK of PSG.

He has to be considered as the #3 in France because according to me:

#1 Lloris
#2 Ruffier
#3 Areola
#4 Mandanda
#5 Costil

At the Euro, Deschamps has made the following choices

#1 Lloris
#2 Mandanda because Deschamps used to coach him at the Olympique de Marseille (Gignac was also a former player of Olympique de Marseille BTW) and any decent player of Olympique Marseille is always overrated
#3 Costil because Ruffier didn't want to be part of the Euro and because Costil is more 'experienced' to be part of this Euro. The tradition in France is to choose a nice 3rd GK happy to be selected because he knows he is very bad (like Landreau in 2014 by the same way).

 

[Ecstatic]

Areola still on top of the world
(FIFA.com) 27 May 2015

© Getty Images


His words were bold, but the situation demanded boldness. "Score your penalties," Alphonse Areola promised his team-mates, "and I'll do my bit."

The France goalkeeper was a picture of composure at the Ali Sami Yen Arena on 13 July 2013, with his side about to challenge Uruguay from the spot for the FIFA U-20 World Cup title after their final had ended goalless. Deciding to take matters into his own hands, Areola quickly made good on his vow, diving right to deny Uruguay's first taker in the shoot-out before going the same way to thwart their second. France went on to be crowned champions, and Areola was their undisputed hero.

"A hero? I don't know about that," says the 22-year-old now, speaking to FIFA.com. "But I do feel as if I did something big, that I pulled off a real feat. To save two penalties like that in the final, after performing well in the game – you really feel strong afterwards. But it was a team effort. You need to know how to save penalties, but you also have to know how to score them. And on top of that, penalty shoot-outs are always a bit of a lottery. That day, I hit the jackpot."

It was certainly a turning point, not just for Areola but also for his team-mates, with the likes of Paul Pogba and Geoffrey Kondogbia also sharing in the triumph. Previously unknown for the most part, France's young victors were immediately transformed into stars. "Honestly, it changed my life," says Areola. "We attained a whole new status. There was suddenly more media attention on us and we became less invisible in the street. Above all, it opened doors."

Paris Saint-Germain's third-choice keeper at the time, Areola was loaned out shortly after his exploits in Istanbul, first packing his bags for Lens. The venerable French club were experiencing hard times, but Areola helped them secure their return to the elite and picked up the title of best goalkeeper in Ligue 2 in the process. Then to Bastia, where the Corsican outfit were seeking a replacement for retired former international Mickael Landreau. Enjoying another fine season, Areola played his part in a respectable 12th-place finish and a memorable run to the Coupe de la Ligue final.

"That's exactly the progress I'd hoped to make," says the youngster. "After the World Cup, my goal was to move forward step by step, without getting too far ahead of myself. And that's what I've done." As for what next season holds in store, Areola remains unsure. "I don't know yet, but what matters to me is to play and get regular playing time to help me progress. The decision on where I go next will be based on that."

Remarkably shrewd and clear-headed for his age, Areola clearly knows what he wants. Much of that can perhaps be put down to the fact that he recently became a father for the first time. "Our daughter was born on 5 May," he says. "A World Cup victory changes your life, but so does that. It lifts you. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to be there day to day with my wife and daughter back in Paris, but I head up there as soon as I get an opportunity to be with her and enjoy every moment."

Making the step up
Naturally, Areola would like to spend even more time in the French capital. Born and raised in Paris, he has been at PSG since the age of 13, with his two loan spells the only time he has spent away from the club. "I'm Parisian through and through and I've always been a fan of PSG," he explains. When I signed for Paris, it was a dream come true. For now, my priority is to get playing time, but playing for PSG obviously remains one of my career objectives." He likewise hopes to wear the gloves for France's senior team. "I do think about it, but that'll only come through good performances and consistency, which again means getting playing time."

Several of his peers have already made the step up. Pogba, Kondogbia, Lucas Digne and Kurt Zouma have all gone on to represent Les Bleus, while also experiencing the glamour of the UEFA Champions League with respective club sides Juventus, Monaco, PSG and Chelsea. Pogba is even set to appear in the Champions League final on 6 June. "Paul is very, very good," says Areola. "Technically, physically and mentally, he has everything you need to be a success. He proves that every time he plays. We're happy for him: he truly deserves everything that's happening to him."

Judging by that homage from goalkeeper to former captain, France were aided by a special atmosphere within their squad as they bore down on U-20 World Cup glory. Beyond the games, the victories and the celebrations, it is that which Areola remembers most. "Paradoxically, the most intense moment for me was just before we started our campaign – the moment we looked each other in the eye and said we could win the trophy. And that's what we did. The key to our success was our solidarity." His team-mates scored their penalties, Areola did his job, and France went home as champions.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

He joined the attack, but his main strength was in the air and defensive abilities. Not that much of an overlapping full back in a sense of Carlos Alberto and the likes. That's why I compared him to Djalma Santos - he also joined the attack but was more appreciated for being defensively very solid.

I've seen some games from the WC and looked a bit conservative to me, have no idea how he was at Boca of course.

He looked extremly conservative to me when I flicked through Argentina matches at WC 66, far more so than other full backs of that era such as Tommy Gemmill. Good, composed defender though, and solid choice alongside Passarella imo.

 

[Gio]

Downcast:
- Don't really rate Careca at this level.
- Maradona/Puskas seems a bit overlapping and narrow. I think he'd find it difficult to stretch defence and playing in same area as Robson/Souness will curb their productivity much.

Careca's not Romario but he's a sensible functional choice up front. An excellent reference point in the box for Puskas and Maradona, an aerial target for crosses from Conti in particular, and is a proven partner to Maradona.

I think Downcast has the five channels of the park well used going forward: Carlos on the left, Puskas on inside-left, Maradona through the middle, Conti outside-right but cutting in from time to time to inside left. Puskas has a lot of previous dovetailing with Di Stefano and pulling left for the Magyars to either cover for Czibor or to provide a diagonal option for Bozsik. It's a strong and well-sculpted attack IMO.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Careca's not Romario but he's a sensible functional choice up front. An excellent reference point in the box for Puskas and Maradona, an aerial target for crosses from Conti in particular, and is a proven partner to Maradona.

I think Downcast has the five channels of the park well used going forward: Carlos on the left, Puskas on inside-left, Maradona through the middle, Conti outside-right but cutting in from time to time to inside left. Puskas has a lot of previous dovetailing with Di Stefano and pulling left for the Magyars to either cover for Czibor or to provide a diagonal option for Bozsik. It's a strong and well-sculpted attack IMO.

AdS was a one man spine and could very well move around to complement having multiple skill players (Puskas/Kopa) in the team. Both Puskas and Kopa are versatile and can move around. And in the old 2-3-5, Di Stefano led upfront with freedom to drop back (no #10 there!), with Gento/Puskas taking up his place. It was very flexible formation.

My concerns are that imo Maradona is a far different player than Di Stefano. Maradona is a much more selfish dribbler and would not be as flexible as AdS. Again with Careca upfront and Maradona behind, Puskas will be shifted to a left AM'ish role most of the match and it's a blatant waste of his abilities.

&

 

[Enigma_87]

He looked extremly conservative to me when I flicked through Argentina matches at WC 66, far more so than other full backs of that era such as Tommy Gemmill. Good, composed defender though, and solid choice alongside Passarella imo.

Aye, agree on both accounts. I've watched the same games from the 66 WC as a base of judgement.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Damn this is a tough one. So much so that for me it would be clearly decided by the GKs, but they're both fielding relatively unproven youths.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

My concerns are that imo Maradona is a far different player than Di Stefano. Maradona is a much more selfish dribbler and would not be as flexible as AdS. Again with Careca upfront and Maradona behind, Puskas will be shifted to a left AM'ish role most of the match and it's a blatant waste of his abilities.

I think that's a crazy harsh assessment, particularly the bolded part about Maradona. A supremely talented dribbler certainly, but selfish? He played with his head up and he was more assister than goalscorer. With Maradona committing defenders and midfielders, Careca playing off the last man, and Conti/Roberto Carlos providing the width, I see Puskas thriving in the resultant space. That's not a criticism of Tuppet's team either, which I really like, but Downcast's attack is just a brilliant unit. To illustrate what I mean about Maradona's style:

 

[Tuppet]

Sorry guys a little swamped at work so couldn't participate more. To offer my 2 cents on Puskas business - I don't think he has ever played this role in his career, that is the role of a wing forward like Stoichkov / Boniek / Cristiano etc. He always had a proper winger on the left side to work with - Czibor in Hungary and Gento in Real Madrid. To make him play this role is definitely a waste of his talent. Also a forward swapping with a winger when attacking, drifting wide is normal and almost all good forward do that, a forward starting on wing providing width and cutting in at opportunities is a totally different role and one that is not interchangable with a deep lying forward IMO.

If we assume Puskas is actually playing a deep lying forward role and that his positioning on the team sheet is only for aesthetic purposes then we have two problems -
1. The onus of providing the width on the left side solely falls on Roberto Carlos. That is a very very tall order when you are also facing and required to stop one of the greatest wingers and dribbler in history. It would work in attacking phase but it has the potential to fell apart in defensive phase. If sir Stan skip past Carlos he would attract Ruggeri to wider positions leaving Romario and Stoichkov against Scirea and Wes Brown, with his delivery I would take these odds every time.

2. His deep lying forward role does somewhat clash with Maradona, who was known for mazy runs and final balls, I am not sure what Puskas exactly provide which is not already covered with Careca - Maradona. It would also lead to congetion in the central areas. I would have much preferred a hard working wing forward who would create space for Maradona & Careca by pulling defenders around. In a set up where you have a superlative playmaker such as Maradona, I see only good place for a devastating finisher Puskas as number 9 - and even that is not ideal, since he would not get to display his creativity - if it was up to me I would have played Kempes as left forward and Puskas as number 9 in this set up.

Anyway if Puskas is playing more centrally and Carlos has to contend with Matthews, then there is not much threat on the right side of my pitch, Djalma would just tuck in and create a 3 man defense of Passarella - Ferrara - Djalma against Downcast's attack, its a damn good defense much better than what my attack is facing.

 

[Ecstatic]

AdS was a one man spine and could very well move around to complement having multiple skill players (Puskas/Kopa) in the team. Both Puskas and Kopa are versatile and can move around. And in the old 2-3-5, Di Stefano led upfront with freedom to drop back (no #10 there!), with Gento/Puskas taking up his place. It was very flexible formation.

My concerns are that imo Maradona is a far different player than Di Stefano. Maradona is a much more selfish dribbler and would not be as flexible as AdS. Again with Careca upfront and Maradona behind, Puskas will be shifted to a left AM'ish role most of the match and it's a blatant waste of his abilities.

&

Below: Napoli 2-1 Stuttgart 1989 UEFA CUP FINAL - Careca & Maradona scored

The strikers/forwards Carnevale or Giordano used to play with (Maradona+Careca)

As said in the OP and as you can see below, I consider Puskas as an inside forward.

Puskas is not an Attacking Midfielder.

Puskas scored more than 700 goals in his career and played with a False 9 like Di Stefano (who doesn't play on the wing then) or a target striker like Kocsis.

 

[Ecstatic]

Focus on Puskas










Below, you can imagine Puskas on the left & Careca on the right

 

[Ecstatic]

I don't see a 'conflict of interest' between Maradona & Puskas.

The History of the Game has demonstrated that Puskas was also very successful because he had the chance to play with players like Di Stefano, Hidegkuti, Kocsis...

Hungary & Real Madrid had 2 different styles of play and Puskas performed very well in both cases.

 

[Ecstatic]

&

I prefer this map:

 

[Ecstatic]

My concerns are that imo Maradona is a far different player than Di Stefano. Maradona is a much more selfish dribbler and would not be as flexible as AdS. Again with Careca upfront and Maradona behind, Puskas will be shifted to a left AM'ish role most of the match and it's a blatant waste of his abilities.

Of course, Maradona is a far different player than Di Stefano because he is unique & unparalleled.

I haven't said that Maradona = Di Stefano but there we no 'conflict of interest' between Di Stefano & Puskas with Real Madrid.

Maradona isn't only a 'selfish dribbler' and I think he can be a flexible player

Caps : 91 Games (34 Goals/28 Assists)
World Cup Participation : 1982,86,90, 94 (21 Games/8 Goals/8 Assists)

 

[Tuppet]

If you want to understand the style of play of Real Madrid in the 50s, you should use this map:

You can see from the formation you posted that Puskas is operating in the middle and the left side is handled by Gento, same in Hungary system where Czibor was the left winger for the team. If Puskas is playing his Real Madrid role in your team, then your left side basically consists of Roberto Carlos and thats it.

Carlos must provide width for the team and at the same time face the combination of the best full back and best winger on the pitch. This gives my main creator Sir Stan a huge amount of freedom to run the wing completely and create many chances for Romario & Stoichkov.

 

[Ecstatic]

Sorry guys a little swamped at work so couldn't participate more. To offer my 2 cents on Puskas business - I don't think he has ever played this role in his career, that is the role of a wing forward like Stoichkov / Boniek / Cristiano etc. He always had a proper winger on the left side to work with - Czibor in Hungary and Gento in Real Madrid. To make him play this role is definitely a waste of his talent. Also a forward swapping with a winger when attacking, drifting wide is normal and almost all good forward do that, a forward starting on wing providing width and cutting in at opportunities is a totally different role and one that is not interchangable with a deep lying forward IMO.

If we assume Puskas is actually playing a deep lying forward role and that his positioning on the team sheet is only for aesthetic purposes then we have two problems -
1. The onus of providing the width on the left side solely falls on Roberto Carlos. That is a very very tall order when you are also facing and required to stop one of the greatest wingers and dribbler in history. It would work in attacking phase but it has the potential to fell apart in defensive phase. If sir Stan skip past Carlos he would attract Ruggeri to wider positions leaving Romario and Stoichkov against Scirea and Wes Brown, with his delivery I would take these odds every time.

2. His deep lying forward role does somewhat clash with Maradona, who was known for mazy runs and final balls, I am not sure what Puskas exactly provide which is not already covered with Careca - Maradona. It would also lead to congetion in the central areas. I would have much preferred a hard working wing forward who would create space for Maradona & Careca by pulling defenders around. In a set up where you have a superlative playmaker such as Maradona, I see only good place for a devastating finisher Puskas as number 9 - and even that is not ideal, since he would not get to display his creativity - if it was up to me I would have played Kempes as left forward and Puskas as number 9 in this set up.

Anyway if Puskas is playing more centrally and Carlos has to contend with Matthews, then there is not much threat on the right side of my pitch, Djalma would just tuck in and create a 3 man defense of Passarella - Ferrara - Djalma against Downcast's attack, its a damn good defense much better than what my attack is facing.

Puskas is not a 'wing-forward' but an 'inside-left forward'

 

[Ecstatic]

You can see from the formation you posted that Puskas is operating in the middle and the left side is handled by Gento, same in Hungary system where Czibor was the left winger for the team. If Puskas is playing his Real Madrid role in your team, then your left side basically consists of Roberto Carlos and thats it.

Carlos must provide width for the team and at the same time face the combination of the best full back and best winger on the pitch. This gives my main creator Sir Stan a huge amount of freedom to run the wing completely and create many chances for Romario & Stoichkov.

You can see both teams use a different tactical system...

According to you, Puskas can only play with Czibor & Gento: otherwise he would be a very bad/weak: a useless unflexible player

If Roberto Carlos, it would mean Scirea-Ruggeri-Monti-Tardelli & eventually Conti will make the necessary to cover him.

A defensive block moves and the tactical awareness of my players is very excellent.

 

[Tuppet]

You can see both teams use a different tactical system...

According to you, Puskas can only play with Czibor & Gento: otherwise he would be a very bad & useless player

Ughh, where did I say that ?

 

[Tuppet]

Puskas is not a 'wing-forward' but an 'inside-left forward'

I just mentioned in the post you quoted that he is most likely playing a deep lying forward. Just look at your team sheet and see how wide you have placed him on the left, that is where wing forwards operate, cause it looks nice and symmetric. Anyway I agree that he is not playing as a wing forward and which causes all of the width from your left side to come from Roberto Carlos who has a momentous task to keep up with Sir Stan while also providing width.

 

[Ecstatic]

Ughh, where did I say that ?

Sorry, I read too quickly

 

[Ecstatic]

I just mentioned in the post you quoted that he is most likely playing a deep lying forward. Just look at your team sheet and see how wide you have placed him on the left, that is where wing forwards operate, cause it looks nice and symmetric. Anyway I agree that he is not playing as a wing forward and which causes all of the width from your left side to come from Roberto Carlos who has a momentous task to keep up with Sir Stan while also providing width.

Roberto Carlos remains a defender, but an offensive LB if he has the oppotunity to do so.

Puskas is not Kocsis and like to spend a part of his time outside the penalty area.

I will try to find some videos.

 

[Tuppet]

Sir Stanley Matthews, the first ballon d'or winner was one of the finest dribbler of all time, dubbed as the Wizard and the Magician, he is considered the greatest pure right winger along with Garrincha. Most fans have seen footage of him when he was on the very tail end of his career. At or near the physical peak of his career, Sir Stan was unleashed lightning on the pitch. Even in his Fourties he was turning top-flight calibre defenders inside-out on a weekly basis for both club & country.

One of the criticism people about Sir Stan is his lack of goals, that is because he played as a right-winger in the Chapman style W-M. He was supposed to stay out wide, drop back, make himself available, roast his marker, and get in pin-point crosses, all of which he was VERY good at. There were plenty of players who could bang in 20+ goals a season back then, but VERY few could set people up like Sir Stan. Which is why he is the primary provider for my forwards here.

Another complaint is his lack of trophies and the biggest reason was the English league system of that time. He played for a local club in the era before Johnny Haynes & Jimmy Hill broke the max wage. Why go to a big club like Arsenal or Chelsea, live away from what you were used to and be under all that pressure for the purposes of glory-hunting when you got paid exactly the same amount for staying right where you wanted to ? The likes of Coke & Nike also weren't handing out seven figure endorsement deals to plug their cola or trainers if you happened to play for a big club. Let's face it: a big reason why top players make a beeline for big clubs is in order to "ring the register" in the modern era. No such avenues or temptations existed for top players in Sir Stan's day & playing for England, which was the highest level of play, Sir Stan was dynamite on the pitch.

Here's some footage of Sir Stan when he was closer to his physical peak. Remember that the most of the clips will be on around 30 fps speed film, so you'll have to correct for the "live look" in your head as they seem slower than the real action.

Here's Sir Stan in action against Brazil in '56. Watch for Sir Stan getting past Santos practically at will and the quality of his passes, especially his crossing into the box:


This is Sir Stan in action against Spurs in the 6th Rd. of the FA Cup back in March of '48:


Here's Sir Stan & Tommy Finney driving a ten man England forward to defeat a Wales XI 1-0 in Nov. of the same year. Pay particular attention to the clips where Sir Stan completely dismantles Wales L-B Alf Sherwood, who was one of the best around:


Here is a great profile on Sir Stan with the bits from the likes of Sir Matt Busby, Lofthouse, Mortensen etc - http://spartacus-educational.com/BLACKPmatthews.htm

This is one of my favorite "legends" videos from BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/football_legends/11900.shtml

 

[Ecstatic]

Good to bring a bit of History

 

[Tuppet]

Alright I am off to bed, my final thoughts on this game -

As a creator Sir Stan is only behind Maradona in this game, but while Maradona is contending with two midfield giants in Souness and Robson (supported by energy and tenacity of Schneider), Sir Stan is pretty much free on the right side of the pitch. There is no left winger for Downcast's team and Roberto Carlos is the only presence on the wing. If you have seen the Brazil vs England video posted above, you can see how Sir Stan gave runaround to a better defensive left back in Nilton Santos, he would definitely punish Carlos, who does not even have support of a winger. Pulling Ruggeri aside and crating chances for one of the deadliest striker that game has ever seen Romario and a Ballon D'or winner forward Stoichkov. The situation becomes even more exacerbated when you consider that Stoichkov is roasting Wes Brown all over on the left side and Romario is facing Areola. Scirea is as classy as they come but he has just too many fires to put out.

My opposition team might have bigger names but they are much better contended by our defense and midfield, while our forwards attack on the weakest point of their defense.

You can not just instruct an uber attacking wing back like Roberto Carlos into mainly becoming a defensive presence. Especially with no winger in front and huge amount of space, Carlos is going to be attacking and Sir Stan is going to beat him quite a few times. On the other hand Puskas has to deal with Djalma Santos and Ferrara while Conti has to deal with Marzolini. And the less said about contest between Stoichkov and Wes Brown better.

 

[Ecstatic]

PUSKAS - PART2

By far, the best considered players among the supreme ever to play in Europe last century was Puskás, Alfredo Di Stéfano and Johan Cruijff. Puskás would now meet Di Stéfano on the same side in a storied centering of two iconic careers to begin another adventure in his second-act. They were dynamic men, debonair, wholly excellent and admirable.

Madrid, Spain in the early 1960s.

At a time when players think of retirement, Puskás faced a daunting challenge of learning a new language and culture in the distinct new world of Francisco Franco's Spain at variance with the communist world from where he was coming. But with the gift of confidence and the right mental attitude, Puskás soon endeared himself to everyone around him. Most importantly, he gelled with on-field boss and great Argentine star Alfredo Di Stéfano, who was never the easiest man to know and who could be distancing to those he failed to get on with. With temperamental cheek being part of the charm, Alfredo di Stéfano, a man of withdrawals and ego too, was the most determined and best footballer in Europe this side of Puskás and who dominated life at Read Madrid that won the European Cup the first five times after the competition opened. Soon Puskás reached the right physical condition and again became a sunshot revelation, with that peerless left foot soon scoring a greater number of goals than di Stéfano himself to earn a high and prominent place in a talented constellation of Galácticos. A particular image of the player went with such dollop of panache, and Puskas’ nicknames in Hungary of 'Galloping Major', 'Little Kid Brother' now affectionately were termed into the Spanish 'Pancho', and was also given the impressive name of the 'Little Booming Cannon' as he assumed a position of foremost rank among the great players in the advanced and sophisticated game that Real Madrid practiced.

Stars meeting stars, Ferenc Puskas and Hollywood star Rita Hayworth.

Club football scarcely attained such status of dominance than that of Real Madrid during the late 1950s and 1960s when Puskas played for them. The years in Madrid exposed a Puskas increasingly chiseled to meet the physical demands on an world renowned side in a second blooming of success in middle life who is working his way to the fore in a modern commercially oriented age. Winning six Spanish championships along with way, Puskás became a four-time Pichichi Trophy (top league goalscorer) incandescent forward in communion with di Stéfano to form the basis for the greatest double act world club football has ever seen and became illustrious among the players at Real Madrid. Many came to understand that the major goalscoring star in that constellation of talent was Puskas.


But at first, Puskas, who earned a life of the most perfect satisfaction at Honved and Hungary as captain could not feel so fully in harmony with his new enterprise. Having carried Honved and Hungary to heights never reached before, would his career be convertible towards far loftier activities abroad? His joyous appetite which he has very well developed commonly fetches him; and early frustration with his weight in his first season, Puskas eventually loses the pounds and started scoring richly so that by the final game of the season against Granada he was on even terms with di Stéfano for goals with both men neck-and-neck atop the league scorers' table. The driver at Real Madrid when Puskas arrived was di Stefano, then the regular captain of the team who was a man enthroned and who could really make the team perform. In his unique situation and realizing he needed to earn the friendship of the great Argentine star, in one scene during the match against Granada, Puskas, who neglected little opportunity to knock it in himself when the net was open to him, took the occasion to lay the ball off to di Stefano to score as a thing worth doing to foster happy concord with the brilliant headstrong player many considered the best in the world. This well-rounded gesture and thoughtful deed where Puskas' regard for di Stefano outran his competitive nature made di Stefano that year's top goalscorer. Puskas was every hour a gentlemen, sharing his ethereal rays on the field and off of it. To love the public, to be a master of a nobler mind with a life-affirming, humorous sparkle was Ferenc Puskas. The seeds of the honorable life had been successfully implanted in him.


Ferenc Puskas was head manager
of Panathinaikos (Greece) from 1970 to
1974.

Three legendary and learned master craftsmen of the game: inarguably the most talented and greatest club strike trio of all-time: Di Stefano-Gento-Puskas (1958-1964-66). Football history's greatest forward line with 14 won European Cup titles between them, the three would combine for a 437 goals together in just six years. At Real Madrid, Di Stefano would score 307 total goals out of 396 matches and Puskas would score 242 goals out of his total 262 matches.



By the dint of his insatiable delight and simple pleasure in the business of leading men by his hardworking probing and passion for ideas, this energetic master of cues made Puskas such a royal personality. If di Stéfano kindled the engine as the 'starter' to the Real Madrid engine and paved the way with his sumptuous zig-zagging moves through opposing lines, Puskas was the sizzling 'finisher' with the final responsibility of leveling the boom with his cannonball shotmaking after breaching the final line. Together with the rapidly moving and inexhaustible di Stefano, Puskas produced a giantized image of Real Madrid complete with fantastic examples of each on the pitch that made Real Madrid incontestably their own to retail an apparently endless series of victories at home. He and di Stefano formed the 'card school' in the clubhouse, making sense in and among themselves to clean up against the younger players on the team.

The greatest club side in history: 1956-1967 Real Madrid: Puskas (Öcsi)-Di Stefano (the 'Blond Arrow')-Gento-Santamaria-Rial-Kopa.

With two such public figures piloting events, both who met problems, dealt with solutions to set things right and doing the kinds of things that others could not, Read Madrid reached superb heights and came in for a insuperable pre-eminence over teams at the Bernabéu stadium that defined the greatest home field advantage in the history of club football. From February 17th 1957 to March 7th 1965, Real Madrid amassed one-hundred twenty-one continuous games undefeated at home that transported Real Madrid into an utterly different kind of club. With the Puskás and Di Stéfano tandem at Real Madrid, the team could pose legitimately as history’s finest and most successful club enterprise that made home audiences see successive scenes of these two great standard-bearers exuberantly pulling every team astray with as much gusto and zest as could be had.


Puskás was considered the indispensable man of campaigns and helped bequeath to Real Madrid a bevy of European Cup title appearances, five in all, three of which were won by Real Madrid, including one that begot the famous 7-3 rout of Eintracht Frankfurt in 1960. Certainly in that most ambitious of all European Cup finals and fine and splendid game, Puskas registers a sophisticated sense and maintained his magical power and spotless reputation; and to record the second half of his life at Real Madrid is to record his re-acquisition of world-class status and his transformation into a public living legend.


During the time he played for Honved and Real, few players have put such an indelible imprint on tournament events as Puskas had which will ever speak to his surpassing charms from the many inimitable beauties of his left-footed shots. A resounding trait associated with Puskas was being at his imaginable best in the biggest of games where his inescapable goalscoring élan and virtues stood confessed and he seldom seemed to have missed anything, scoring 42 goals in 47 matches in all first-division European tournament games and the quality of that work was always superior: Puskas amazingly scored 35 goals in 39 European Cup tournament matches that Real Madrid entered, and scored 7 goals in two European Cup finales.