The Double Draft - QF2 : Raees vs Chester

With featured players in their prime, who will win the match?

  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .

Joga Bonito

The Art of Football
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....................................Team Chesterlestreet...................................................................................Team Raees



Team Chesterlestreet

Starting XI/tactical remarks:


Michel Preud'homme: Goal keeper. Key strengths: Shot stopping/reflexes.

Back four: Lilian Thuram as right back, in a role similar to the one he played for France with great success. José Santamaría as CB, alongside Bobby Moore. If the pair is considered as a standard/classic one, the former will be more of a stopper, the latter more of a ball player. There is no clear “leader” in that pair, though, as they're both naturals in that department. Finally, Hans-Peter Briegel as left back, a role many consider his best (among several he played at the highest level). The line will be fairly deep, and the fullbacks will mainly focus on dealing with wide threats, meaning that they won't venture forward to any great degree unless there is a clear opening – and Briegel will be the one doing this more than Thuram (as indicated by the arrow). The latter obviously doesn't imply that the whole back four will be standing around back there like statues, waiting for a chance to do some “pure” defending, but rather that the game plan as such does not depend on the fullbacks bombing forward, nor on the defence as a whole pressing high up the pitch.

Wim Jansen: Central/defensive midfielder. He will partly shield the back four, partly hound the opposition further up the pitch. Offensively he will operate in the right channel, mainly seeking to support, and combine with, Matthews.

Paulo R. Falcão: Central midfielder/playmaker. Style: Balanced (meaning he won't be overly defensive, i.e. playing some sort of sheer holding game – nor overly offensive, i.e. operating as an actual attacking midfielder).

Bobby Charlton: Attacking midfielder/playmaker. His starting position, if you will, is deeper than a standard No10, but he will regularly operate as more of an inside forward – pushing up both with and without the ball, looking to create and to finish himself.

Stanley Matthews: Right winger. His brief is simple: Challenge and cause havoc on that right side as much as possible, seek to set up team mates in dangerous positions after having caused an imbalance - in short, the work of a classic winger. Key strength: Dribbling.

Tom Finney: Left winger. Will cut inside to a much greater extent than Matthews, and seek to get into positions from where he can set up team mates (Charlton and Müller, mainly) with short plays – or finish himself.

Gerd Müller: Centre forward. His role should be self-explanatory, but I will point out that Müller's natural game involves much more combination- or linkup play than he's often credited for. His brief in this match reflects this – and if the reader is looking for a precedent, I will point to Müller's performances in Euro '72: It is that sort of CF play I expect from him here – in other words something which goes well beyond the work of a sheer box player/poacher.






Team Raees


Formation: 4-2-4 don't expect any of my 4 attacking players to track back extensively (especially not the wide players) but I do expect Zico and Tostão to help protect the central areas and track players in their zones i.e. put pressure on Falcao. 6 very strong defensive players protecting an inexperienced keeper (Captain of 1930 WC winning side and greatest Pre War defender Nasazzi (Fire) partnering the Ballon D'or winning sweeper Matthias Sammer (Ice), World Cup/Euro/CL winning full backs in Lizarazu/Vogts, with the additional protection of the monstrous defensive abilities of Desailly and Neeskens.

Defensive strategy:
  1. Dealing with Sir Stan - Matthews is famous for skinning Nilton Santos, but remember it was Djalma who was the rock solid one defensively, Nilton was famous for pioneering bombing forward and not really a fan of defending all game.. whereas Lizarazu has been quoted by Luìs Figo as being his most difficult opponent to beat and perfectly balanced between defence v attack.
  2. Finishing off Finney - Finney another roaming brainy winger similar to Vogt's last opponent, should be marked well by Vogts - if he can handle Cruyff, he can handle Finney.
  3. Nullifying his goal threat - Muller or Muller Greaves (depending on the combo) will face the world cup/euro 96 winning duo of Nasazzi and Sammer. Sammer is the perfect reader of the game v someone like Muller who physically can't dominate him but is super intelligent/GOAT finisher
  4. Midfield Battle - Desailly will keep taps on Charlton/Neesken will focus on Falcao in conjunction with Zico, but will also double up on Matthews if need be.
  5. No high press - Balanced line, to avoid Greaves/Muller getting in behind. Nasazzi will man mark and Sammer will drop deep to mark the space.
Attacking strategy:
  • Best of British combined with German efficiency - Very fluid attacking lineup really, goalscoring winger (aka Rumenigge 'Jairznho') can really focus on getting forward, scoring goals and moving across the pitch wreaking havoc) and Best can switch wings with him when need be and features as more of a creator than Kalle but still a key goalscoring factor in my attack.
  • Brazil 70 ft Brazil 82 - Tostão is my key figure in attack as he will plug any gaps, i.e drift wide wherever Kalle or Best cut in. He will drop into midfield and link up with Zico and they will be the primary threats through the middle with their vision, ability to shoot from range and delicate through balls
  • Total midfield - Neeskens will run the midfield, dropping deep to assist with the build up play and will break into spaces after passing into the feet of Zico or will spread it wide to my wings
  • Set Piece Factor - With Zico on free kick duty, anything is possible.
  • Role of full backs (or lack thereof)- On the ball, not really expecting either of my full backs to get forward a great deal - they're merely support players in this match. I have enough attacking threat without letting my full backs bomb forward with little defensive responsibility.
Question marks over Chester's team
  • Finney and Matthews record on the same team and International context - both have a dreadful international record when on the same team (the losses v Hungary notwithstanding, we have the losses v USA/Spain WC 1950, drawing with a mediocre Belgium at WC 1954 - Matthews was dropped next game, where they beat the Swiss 2-0 to get to QFs. They then lost 4-2 against first good side they faced - Uruguay 4-2. In 1958, England's most impressive performance v eventual winners Brazil was a 0-0 without either of them, Finney played only the first game (draw v Russia) and was benched throughout and Matthews had retired.

  • Credentials of Briegel/Santamaria against an attack of this quality - both of these players have solid reputations but at this stage of the tournament when you compare them against Moore/Thuram, or any individuals from my defence, I would argue that they have been guilty of conceding large quantity of goals v quality attacks. Santamaria conceded (3g v Austria, 4g v Hungary - WC54, 1955 CL QF onwards conceded 10g in 4 games, including 3 in final v Reims). In 1982, Briegel was subbed as Germany conceded 3 v France, which allowed Germany to make a comeback and part of defence which conceded 3 in the final v Italy against a weaker attack than mine, Forster was part of the same defence. They also conceded 3 in the 86 final v Argentina). In 1980 Briegel was key part of a winning side but they played Belgium, Czechoslovakia and conceded 2 v a past their peak Dutch side.. so didn't meet a top top world class attacking unit.
 
@Raees Did Rummenigge ever play in the right wing position without an attacking right full back? Looking at the 1908 Euros final, 1982 and 1986 World Cup final he always had one.
 
I will participate in the discussions later in the afternoon.

Interesting game not easy to decryt :)
 
Physiocrat said:
@Raees Did Rummenigge ever play in the right wing position without an attacking right full back? Looking at the 1908 Euros final, 1982 and 1986 World Cup final he always had one.
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I would say Berti's attacking qualities are very underrated. He nearly scored in a World Cup Final, rampaging down the left wing.. and has the brain of a midfielder in possession, very composed passer going forwards, good crosser and excellent speed, accurate dribbling ability. He and Kalle will be fine and anyway, the plan is to attack down the left primarily and switch it up with some attacks down the right. Lets not forget that he and Best can switch wings with freedom, knowing full well that they have solid full backs behind them and that they are both comfortable on either wing. The video below highlights a) how magical Kalle is as a player, very skilful and pace, quality dribbler b) how direct a goal threat he is and most importantly c) not a man to be restricted, let him have the freedom of the pitch and Best/Zico/Tostao will fill in the gaps and stretch the pitch as all three are comfortable across the forward line d) can definitely attack down left flank too.



Brilliant Gif below of Kalle at his peak and you can see that when he drifts to the right wing, he is beating men for fun 1 v 1 and doesn't need full back support.



Another Gif below of the type of goal I envisage here, Lizarazu linking with Bestie.. putting in a quality ball, Kalle causing havoc in the box.

 
Looks pretty open. Teams are quite similar, actually, and the tactical approaches aren't wildly different either. So, I guess it could end up being a question of how one rates the players on display.

Rummenigge looks a little bit too much like an actual right winger for me, but I don't think that's a huge deal – looks a bit off, though, given the sort of 4-2-4'ish appearance of the thing.

The winger versus fullback duels: Sure, it could pan out like that. Completely neutralizing players of that calibre isn't easy, though. And Lizarazu, whilst an excellent allrounder, doesn't strike me as the sort of player who's ideally suited to spending an entire game simply getting in his man's way as a shadow/man marker. Anyway, I can counter the argument by saying something very similar myself: My own fullbacks are instructed to play conservatively, and mainly deal with the wide threats – if Finney can be completely taken out of the match by Vogts, then Best won't get much joy out of Thuram. And Rummenigge is nowhere near as dangerous as a pure, constantly challenging winger as Matthews – who is a specialist dribbler and fullback tormentor.

Anyway, I don't think it's realistic that any of these “duels” will end up 100% in the defender's favour, so for me it's more a question of being properly prepared for what your opponent has in his locker, ready for what he'll throw at you – which I think both teams are here.

As for questioning Briegel and Santamaría, I find that odd. If the latter can be questioned, in terms of pure quality, in a q-f – then not many players will be safe. Looking randomly at a "greatest ever" list now, Santamária is ranked 2nd among central defenders (not counting sweepers/liberos) - behind Moore, incidentally. Not that this proves anything, and such lists obviously vary to some extent, but to positively question his credentials - well, again, I find that odd.

And my opponent's goal keeper is so far from being unquestionable that it borders on taking the piss – no offence.

In all the “duels” out here, he's the one who sticks out like a sore thumb when the finishers he's up against are the likes of Charlton and Gerd Müller.
 
Wow, why is Rico still playing when there is no restriction of youth players etc. That decided this game for me.
 
Just a minor point, regarding the criticism of Finney/Matthews above: What one has to keep in mind here is that the England team the pair of them played for – together and alone – was a tactically outdated one to a large extent – as evidenced by several terrible results, and several poor World Cup campaigns in the 1950s.

However, wing play (which is what those two specialized in – both the more classic kind, and the more “modern” brand represented by Finney) wasn't England's problem: Nor was, say, “pure” defending or physical CF play. It was the overall tactical approach (a tendency to stick to rigid setups, to which the Hungarian model, for instance, was the very antithesis), and not least the overall mentality of the FA which were England's main problems.

Finney, in particular, was a progressive footballer in many ways (tactically, not least) – and neither of them represents the shortcomings of the FA. If they did, they wouldn't be as highly rated as they are.
 
Last point for now (I can't devote that much time to this right now, I'm afraid, but will try to check back later):

Well, not a point as such - just a clarification: Jansen's role involves a lot of running about (which he's ideally suited for), and in a purely offensive sense, he's supposed to be "supporting" Matthews here in a way somewhat similar to what you'd expect from an overlapping fullback of sorts: The latter is largely missing here, since Thuram won't be playing that part in any regular sense - so the idea is that Jansen to a degree provides this "service".

That's what the arrow means - Jansen won't be running mechanically back and forth along a diagonal trajectory: He'll be operating as a fairly typical defensive midfielder/destroyer - but offensively he will also seek out the right side in order to combine with Matthews if/when this is opportune.

Right - good luck for now, @Raees, sorry about running off, but I have a deadline coming up, and I will be back later today to comment some more, hopefully.
 
Not going to bother defending the keeper as I was planning to upgrade him but losing kubala and figo really put me in a tight spot considering how far behind my side was compared to goat picks other teams were getting
 
I still think my defense is solid enough to handle that attack even with a shite keeper. By the way has Finney and Matthews operated in a 433? Are they goal threats on the context of this match up and against my defense?
 
Raees said:
I still think my defense is solid enough to handle that attack even with a shite keeper. By the way has Finney and Matthews operated in a 433? Are they goal threats on the context of this match up and against my defense?
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It's not a 4-3-3 - and their roles are not identical either: As stated, Matthews plays as a classic/typical winger, whereas Finney cuts inside to a much greater extent.

This largely reflects their natural game - as they say. Matthews was no great goal threat - whereas Finney was a considerable one for a winger (he didn't play exclusively as a winger throughout his career, be it said - but was comfortable across the front, even as a CF, but for England he played mainly as a winger). He scored 30 in 76 for England.

This is a decent summary of his career which I posted the other day in the main thread (it deals with Matthews to some extent too):

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-double-draft.419589/page-74#post-19614520
 
As for the keeper situation, well - it is what it is. And I understand your reasoning, as far as being unlucky with those injuries is concerned - certainly not an ideal outcome for you, many were hit much less severely, including myself.

My views on the general situation have been expressed before: I don't think a keeper of that sort should slip through without scrutiny in an all-time draft - and that is all I'm going to say about it. It has more to do with the general draft/keeper conundrum, though - and as many will know, I've been an advocate of boosting the status/importance of keepers for a long time, so this isn't something I'm coming up with now in order to score a cheap point.

In fact, I hadn't planned on banging on about your keeper at all - but when you question the credentials of some of my players, well, you find yourself in the proverbial glass house.

Anyway, I really have to get some work done now - see you later.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
As for the keeper situation, well - it is what it is. And I understand your reasoning, as far as being unlucky with those injuries is concerned - certainly not an ideal outcome for you, many were hit much less severely, including myself.

My views on the general situation have been expressed before: I don't think a keeper of that sort should slip through without scrutiny in an all-time draft - and that is all I'm going to say about it. It has more to do with the general draft/keeper conundrum, though - and as many will know, I've been an advocate of boosting the status/importance of keepers for a long time, so this isn't something I'm coming up with now in order to score a cheap point.

In fact, I hadn't planned on banging on about your keeper at all - but when you question the credentials of some of my players, well, you find yourself in the proverbial glass house.

Anyway, I really have to get some work done now - see you later.
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Totally understandable mate, it deservedly needs to attract some flak and by all means - exploit it, I agree on the promoting status of keepers thing.

Without sounding too Perez like - I promise voters who vote for me that if i get through, I will sign Lev Yashin.
 
Physiocrat said:
@Raees Did Rummenigge ever play in the right wing position without an attacking right full back? Looking at the 1908 Euros final, 1982 and 1986 World Cup final he always had one.
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Iirc, he played behind Vogts in the 1978 WC with Kaltz functioning as the sweeper. He's also played with Hansen as the RB in the 1976 EC final. He is an inside forward but not exactly a Cristiano Ronaldo at Real sort of an inside forward but rather a more well-rounded forward who was capable of stretching play, occasionally going on the outside and of course posing a direct threat with his speed and dribbling ability. Fairly hardworking player too. I don't mind him in front of a defensive full-back myself, especially with Best in that side roaming about, stretching play and taking on the opposition from the wider areas. That being said, it would make more sense to have Neeskens as the RCM to help with the right flank a wee bit more, esp as I presume Vogts is playing as a RCB as opposed to a RB with Sammer in the backline.

I don't really buy the questioning of the likes of Briegel or Santamaria tbh, esp the latter who was a great defender on his day and one of the defensive greats. Doesn't quite get his deserved plaudits, but whenever I've watched that Real side play (not that much footage available tbh), he was a class apart.

It's going to be a tough task for both sides to score here but I can see Kalle getting some joy against Briegel, who whilst being a fine defender might just find it tough to keep track of Rummenigge's sheer incisiveness. Likewise, as much as I like Jansen, he does have his work cut out against Zico but Chester's midfield is definitely one heck of an unit with both Charlton and Falcao capable of making their presence felt in the middle, during both phases. On the other hand, Charlton's long range screamers could definitely prove too be too hot to handle for Rico and Müller is the perfect forward to be playing behind that creative supporting cast - can see him banging in a goal despite Raees's impressive defensive set-up. Slightly leaning towards one side but will make up my mind after further discussions.

Also would like to hear more about Sammer's role on here, @Raees and how you've accomodated him in your side etc.
 
Joga Bonito said:
Also would like to hear more about Sammer's role on here, @Raees and how you've accomodated him in your side etc.
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I placed Sammer in between Nasazzi and Vogts for a reason as those two are rock solid defensively and with Desailly there too, he has the freedom to go forwards when he wants to. He's surrounded by a triangle of disciplined defenders, all of whom can handle their own shit and all defensive leaders in their own right. Gives him the confidence to get forward and involved in midfield when he wants to.. but his primary task is of course ensuring our back line is secure.

Charlton's long range screamers are of course a danger in any match and I have said it before, Charlton for me is comparable with a Zidane - that is how much I love the guy. But I do think Desailly is the best pure defensive midfielder in the draft and he is the perfect player to limit Charlton's attacking threat.

Neeskens was placed on the left on purpose, so he can do his usual kamikaze shit and close down Falcao preventing him from dictating the midfield, and Desailly is right to protect against Charltons marauding runs down the left.
 
Both teams are well designed - no issues with the tactical set-ups on either side. Chester more straightforward, Raees more nuanced with some nice complementarity built in (Desailly covering for Sammer / Tostao dropping for Zico and Rummenigge). Raees is unfortunate Best is up against the best, but Zico does look like he'd get a bit more joy. I do rate Jansen though, one of the less heralded Dutchies whose influence was sometimes under-estimated. Like others not buying the criticism of Briegel, Santamaria or the wingers. Tough to split.
 
JOSE NASAZZI - BEST DEFENDER IN THE WORLD PRE 1945 (OLYMPICS 1924/28, WORLD CUP 1930 WINNING CAPTAIN)

He developed a reputation as a strong, quick defender with excellent positional ability, and quickly caught the attention of the national team selectors. His leadership skills and the respect that he was able to command from his team-mates made him the ideal candidate for the captaincy. Nasazzi became something of a father figure to the rest of the team, even in his 20s, as his colleagues looked up to him and followed his instructions. Nasazzi's international career began in the 1923 South American Championship on home soil, with his debut coming at right full-back in the opening game against Paraguay. Uruguay won that game and the two that followed to claim the championship, and Nasazzi was named player of the tournament. The following year, the national team travelled to Europe for the first time to play in the Olympic Games in Paris. Under Nasazzi's captaincy Uruguay stormed through the tournament, winning all five matches by a combined margin of 20 goals to two to claim the gold medals. Despite this international success, the amateur status of Uruguayan football meant that throughout the 1920s he kept his job of cutting marble for a living.

He would lead Uruguay to further success in the next two South American Championships in which they appeared. Titles were claimed on home soil once more in 1924, and in Chile in 1926, after conflicts within the national association had led them to miss the 1925 edition. Nasazzi did not play in the 1927 tournament as Uruguay finished as runners-up behind Argentina, but was back in 1928 as the team returned to Europe to defend their Olympic title in Amsterdam. Victories over the Netherlands and Germany took Uruguay into the final against great rivals Argentina, and after a draw in the initial game they claimed victory in a replay. Nasazzi had led his country to a second gold medal, and a fourth major title in just six years. In 1929 he was unsuccessful in the South American Championship for the first time as Uruguay could only finish third, having won all three previous tournaments in which Nasazzi had been in the squad. However, the main focus for the national team was now the first World Cup in 1930, which they would host. Wins over Peru and Romania in the group stage and Yugoslavia in the semi-final took Uruguay into another final match-up against Argentina. At half-time their hopes were starting to fade as Argentina took a 2-1 lead, but Nasazzi was able to inspire his team to a second half fightback which brought three goals and World Cup glory with a final score of 4-2. As the Olympic Games had been the biggest international tournament in the world prior to the introduction of the World Cup, Nasazzi had now effectively led his country to three consecutive global titles. His impact on Uruguay's success was recognised when he was named player of the tournament. Despite his remarkable run of success at international level, Nasazzi had so far been unable to replicate that with his club. Bella Vista had become established as a strong top division club, but had not been able to compete with the older, more powerful clubs in the country. Their best finish had been second behind Nacional in 1924, when there were two competing league competitions. When professional football came to Uruguay in the early 1930s, it was Nacional who made an offer for the national team captain and Nasazzi moved on at the end of the 1932 season. In his first season with Nacional, the club finished level with rivals Peñarol at the top of the league and faced a play-off, which they eventually won after three matches.

At the age of 32, Nasazzi finally had a major domestic honour to go with all his success at international level. A second league title would follow in 1934, as Nacional finished three points clear at the top of the league but that was to be the last championship for Nasazzi as Peñarol went on to dominate the next few seasons. Nasazzi was denied the chance of leading his country in a second World Cup when the holders refused to take part in the 1934 tournament in Italy in protest at the small number of European teams who had travelled to the 1930 finals. However, there was to be one final success at the end of his career at the 1935 South American Championship, the first such tournament for six years. Just as he had been 12 years earlier, Nasazzi was player of the tournament as Uruguay took another title by winning all three games, Nasazzi's defence conceding just one goal. His international career finished in 1936, having captained his country to four continental titles, two Olympic gold medals and one World Cup. He retired from playing in 1937, aged 36, but returned as coach of the national side in 1942. In 1945 he led the team at the South American Championship but was unable to repeat the success of his club career, only finishing fourth. Following his retirement, Nasazzi spent some years working in radio before his death in 1968, aged 67. As well as being remembered as his country's greatest captain, he is also immortalised in the name of Bella Vista's home ground, the Estadio José Nasazzi.




 
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TOSTÃO - BRAZIL'S FALSE 9

nutmegging Bobby Moore to create Jairzinho's goal in 1970








INTERVIEW/ARTICLE

Few would dispute that Garrincha was the greatest to have lined up alongside Pelé. Similarly, there seems little doubt that Tostão was the brightest: the entire career of Pelé’s Mexico 70 front partner was an excellent illustration of the claim that “the first five yards are in the head.”

Fate works in mysterious ways. The fact that Tostao was forced to hang up his boots early not because of a broken knee or a hurt ankle, but because of an eye injury, was a chance event. But in a roundabout way, it was a symbolically suitable manner to end his playing career. After all, it was his all-seeing eyes – and the sharp brain wired to them – that was the secret behind Eduardo Goncalves de Andrade’s genius as a player. Several attributes may have been missing from the diminutive striker’s game, but one thing he had in abundance was vision.

Beyond his magnificent play on the pitch, Tostao had a great footballing brain. He pondered deeply about the game. Star players, as a rule, intuitively know what to do. “How do they know? They know, but they don’t know they know. It is knowledge that transcends human comprehension,” explained Tostao. The difference is that, as well as being born with this instinctive knowledge, Tostao had the intelligence to analyse it with precision, and then put this analysis into practice during his career. “Jean-Claude Killy, the famous French skier, used to train mentally with a stopwatch and would say that he managed almost the same time when it came to the actual race,” he said. “I trained the moves mentally, constantly picturing game situations in my mind’s eye. “I stood out because of my passing, my dribbling, my timing in the box and above all my ability to anticipate what was about to happen,” the Brazilian explained in his 1997 book entitled Tostão, Lembranças, Opiniões, Reflexões sobre Futebol (Tostao, Memories, Opinions and Reflections on Football).”

TOSTÃO 'THE NEW KING OF FOOTBALL'.. DEFEATING PELE'S SANTOS (1966)

Tostao was the chief protagonist at his club, Cruzeiro. The brilliance of his displays there helped make them one of Brazil’s biggest clubs in the sixties, at a time when the country was teeming with great sides, not least Pele’s Santos. In December of 1966 Cruzeiro won the Taça Brasil [a forerunner of the Brazilian Championship] beating Santos, Pelé and all, 6-2 in Belo Horizonte, and 3-2 in São Paulo...

They were two spectacular victories. Nowadays it’s nothing special for Cruzeiro to beat Santos. Cruzeiro are recognised as a big team. But in those days it was like a team from the countryside beating the best in the world.

We were celebrating in the dressing-room and someone, I think a reporter, arrived with a crown and put it on my head and the photographers snapped away. There it was in the papers the next day with the headline, “Tostão, the new king of football.”

I didn’t want to go out to the street, I felt so ashamed of the photo. I felt like a usurper of the throne, a phoney. If Pelé had been just another good player then I would have felt fine, justified in calling myself the best. But it wasn’t because of one game that Pelé stopped being the king, the best player in the world. I knew my limits. I was a top player, but I wasn’t Pelé. Pelé was so much better — the difference was so vast! No one dared to put themselves on the same level.

'PELE'S RESERVE' TO PELE'S STRIKER PARTNER (67-69)

Even so, you had the scene to yourself for a while, because Pelé didn’t play for Brazil again until 1968, and you were playing and scoring. When he came back, did you return to being Pelé’s reserve?

Until João Saldanha took over. He called me over and said, “What’s the problem with you playing?” And I said, “I don’t have a problem, apart from the fact that every coach seems to think of me as Pelé’s reserve.” And he said, “From now on that’s over. You’re the first name on the team- sheet, ahead of Pelé” — I’m sure he was joking — “and another thing; you can play badly, and it’s no problem. You’re staying in the team. It’s you and Pelé up front. Take it in turns, with one of you staying up and the other dropping. Sort it out between yourselves.” And it worked. In the World Cup qualifiers in 1969 I was top scorer.

Saldanha liked me. Even today I wonder if Saldanha liked me more for my football or for my way of thinking [Saldanha was a communist, and therefore a curious choice to coach the national team of a country ruled by a right-wing military dictatorship]. At the time I had made a few statements saying that my idol was Dom Helder Camara, the Bishop of Olinda who was being persecuted for speaking out against the dictatorship.
 
LOSS OF EYESIGHT FOLLOWED BY CHANGE OF BRAZIL MANAGER.. CAREER UNDER THREAT (AGED 23)

The innate capacity to observe that set Tostao apart made the events of a rainy September afternoon in 1969, in Pacaembu, Sao Paulo, all the more poignant. Cruzeiro were up against Corinthians and on the attack when Tostao slipped and fell, losing control of the ball. It ran to Corinthians centre-back Ditao, who attempted to clear it as far upfield as possible. Tostao’s face was in the way of the wet and heavy ball - or more specifically his left eye was. The impact left Tostao with a dislocated retina. More than simply jeopardising his presence at the following year’s World Cup, the player's entire career was left hanging in the balance, and worse still, his very eyesight.

I tried to stay calm. The worse thing at the beginning was the uncertainty, but I gradually gained confidence that everything would sort itself out,” he said. “I started making plans: surgery at the start of October, six months’ recovery time, back training again in April and in June I’d be at the World Cup. And that’s exactly how it worked out.” In the midst of these plans, in March 1970, Brazil ousted the coach who had made Tostao an undisputed starter, Joao Saldanha, replacing him with Zagallo. At the beginning of the new coach’s reign, Tostao was the second choice striker. In other words, Pele’s substitute.

Two things changed. Zagallo entered with the line that “Tostão is Pelé’s reserve.” And also he wasn’t sure that I had recovered. I’d gone eight months without playing. At that moment everyone thought I was out of the World Cup. But he kept me in the squad. He thought there were too many midfielders, so he dropped Zé Carlos and Dirceu Lopes and brought in two centre-forwards with the characteristics he was looking for, Dario and Roberto Miranda. He preferred a traditional centre-forward, fixed in the area, with Pelé coming from behind. So he gave Roberto and Dario a chance up front. This was fine by me — I was still getting my fitness back. “Let them play now,” I thought, “while I’m preparing.

And Zagallo was mistaken. The style of Roberto or Dario was not right for that team. Pelé, Gerson, Rivelino, they didn’t need a striker who would basically wait for the ball to arrive to shoot at goal. They needed a different type of player, one with my characteristics, a player of movement, technique and quick thinking to combine with them.

WORLD CUP 1970

Otherwise it would have been like Serginho in 1982, a striker not speaking the same language as his midfield. That type of striker was lost with that type of team. Zagallo saw this and decided to try me out, but without much conviction that it would work. Before a training game in Mexico he came up to me and asked, “Do you think you could play up front without dropping back? I know it’s not your normal style, but what do you reckon?” And so I went out and did it. And I knew that with Pelé and Jairzinho bursting forward, very quick, goalscorers, very strong physically, aggressive, I knew that with technique, dribbles and passes, my style would work. Straight away everyone could feel that it was right, the parts were fitting, the quick one-twos were flowing. That hadn’t been happening before. At the end of the game they all came up to me, Gerson, Pelé, Rivelino. No one said anything — no one wanted to be so presumptuous in front of the coach — but I felt the message they were sending me with their body language: “You’re in.” And in the dressing room Zagallo came up to me with a big smile and said, “Congratulations, you did well,” and I knew I would start the competition in the team.

In the second game, against England, it was tough, and there were few chances to combine moves with Pelé. That gave me the stimulus to try an individual move and I went on a dribble that helped set up the only goal It was then that I sealed my place in the side

But the eye was still a worry...

The coaching staff were concerned, because I suffered a haemorrhage. My eye was all red. Gerson was terrified! So they hurriedly sent for Roberto Moura from Houston. He came down, examined me and said there was no problem, I could play. So he was there, invited by the Brazilian federation, watching the games, and at the end when we had won the World Cup I presented him with my medal.

INSIGHT INTO HIS LINK UP PLAY WITH PELE

Lots of centre-forwards were shown up when they played with Pelé: you could quickly see that they weren’t good enough for the national team because they couldn’t keep up with him. His thinking was so quick and he could — still can — look in a very imposing way. He played a lot with looks and gestures. He moved a lot to throw off his marker. When the central midfielder had the ball he would feint to burst forward and then drop to receive the ball. Or he would feint to drop and then burst. With a glance he would try to communicate to the centre forward what he was aiming to do. It was all done in just a fraction of a second.

I could follow him. This was my strength. In fact I had much more intelligence and speed of thought than technique. I often imagined doing things on the field that I wasn’t capable of pulling off, because I didn’t have the speed or the skill to do them. But I thought quickly — and this is what Pelé needed. When he glanced at me I already knew what he wanted; when he was going to give it first time, when he was going to change position. You had to follow his thinking. Pelé liked to play with a partner; he depended on this. He created the moves, but he needed a partner to help. He grew up like this, with Pagão and then Coutinho at Santos.
 
Not really a fan of Jansen at this level, esp against player of Zico's caliber.

On flip side, Raees should not have spent on Desailly and Sammer, when either one (preferably Desailly) would have sufficed. If he had a player like Effenberg in the middle, it would have taken his team to another level.
 
Hum. Each team has his pros and cons. Similar tactical systems. Let's start with the offensive strategy

On the one hand: Finney + Charlton + Matthews + Gerd Muller. Everthing is made to make one of the top 3 greatest scorers of All-Time happy
On the other hand: Best + Zico + Tostao + Rummenige. Given the context, Zico is in a position to shine.
 
Sammer is "ice"? Ice is Scirea, ice is Ferdinand, but Sammer? Certainly not the coolest (temperature-wise) guy on the pitch.

Not sure if the Belgian (don't want to mess up the spelling) is an upgrade on DDG, actually. He is certainly not in the elite Yashin/Zoff/Banks etc category for me.


And Rico :lol:
 
harms said:
Sammer is "ice"? Ice is Scirea, ice is Ferdinand, but Sammer? Certainly not the coolest (temperature-wise) guy on the pitch.

Not sure if the Belgian (don't want to mess up the spelling) is an upgrade on DDG, actually. He is certainly not in the elite Yashin/Zoff/Banks etc category for me.


And Rico :lol:
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Ice in the sense that he's the sweeper; the calm ball player.. reader of the game. Is that not an accurate depiction of his position in this formation ?
 
Yes that was my inspiration but obviously a more solid defence than their team. Zico is the white pele, Kalle is the athletic goalscoring wide forward who drifts across the pitch.. Best is my upgrade on Rivelino.. dribbling from deep and taking us up the pitch and Neeksens to control the midfield. Neeskens isn't quite Gerson but Zico can do both the Gerson and Pele role..
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
On flip side, Raees should not have spent on Desailly and Sammer, when either one (preferably Desailly) would have sufficed. If he had a player like Effenberg in the middle, it would have taken his team to another level.
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Why not, he already has Neeskens in the middle playing as the B2B?
 
Joga Bonito said:
Why not, he already has Neeskens in the middle playing as the B2B?
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I think someone a la Effenberg would have been better. For a DM, Desailly is adventurous but as a B2B I rate Effenberg better.

.........Effenberg.........Neeskens......
....................Desailly...................
Lizarazu....Nasazzi...da Guia....Vogts

Is just so balanced and far more effective. Neeskens workrate and ability to operate in a wide-ish role wonderfully bridges Vogts and Kalle. Effenberg adds more oomph to the midfield and Desailly dropping back will have a big dedicated hold on Charlton.
 
Raees said:
I placed Sammer in between Nasazzi and Vogts for a reason as those two are rock solid defensively and with Desailly there too, he has the freedom to go forwards when he wants to. He's surrounded by a triangle of disciplined defenders, all of whom can handle their own shit and all defensive leaders in their own right. Gives him the confidence to get forward and involved in midfield when he wants to.. but his primary task is of course ensuring our back line is secure.
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That's part of my concern with Rummenigge and Vogts. It's not that Vogts can't provide good support going forward but that to allow Sammer more freedom Vogts can't do so. I think it would have made more sense to play Best right and Rummenigge left with Lizarazu as an attacking left full back allowing Vogts to concentrate on defending so Sammer can come out at will with Desailly dropping into the back three. Then you could play Neeskens as RCM to link with Best on occasions. This could leave you open a bit with Matthews exploiting space behind Lizarazu but it would have made a much more coherent attacking line-up.

Chester has issues with Jansen's quality here but his team makes more tactical sense and has a much better goalkeeper.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I think someone a la Effenberg would have been better. For a DM, Desailly is adventurous but as a B2B I rate Effenberg better.

.........Effenberg.........Neeskens......
....................Desailly...................
Lizarazu....Nasazzi...da Guia....Vogts

Is just so balanced and far more effective. Neeskens workrate and ability to operate in a wide-ish role wonderfully bridges Vogts and Kalle.
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Don't think Raees would like dropping two of his best players in Zico and Sammer :). I don't really see any tactical balance/complementarity issues with his current set-up. Although of course, Sammer in a back four is contentious but interesting in that he has a tucked in RCB and a top notch DM covering for him. Can remember Mjj/crappy using him in a similar set-up before and it was fairly well received, although I didn't like it that much as it had Thiago Silva as the RCB.

Fwiw, Effenburg is neither going to add anything to Raees's side that Zico or Neeskens isn't imo.
 
Physiocrat said:
That's part of my concern with Rummenigge and Vogts. It's not that Vogts can't provide good support going forward but that to allow Sammer more freedom Vogts can't do so. I think it would have made more sense to play Best right and Rummenigge left with Lizarazu as an attacking left full back allowing Vogts to concentrate on defending so Sammer can come out at will with Desailly dropping into the back three. Then you could play Neeskens as RCM to link with Best on occasions. This could leave you open a bit with Matthews exploiting space behind Lizarazu but it would have made a much more coherent attacking line-up.

Chester has issues with Jansen's quality here but his team makes more tactical sense and has a much better goalkeeper.
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I was worried that if I use Kalle as left on paper, people would argue that he isnt used there usually. Instead he starts on right but has freedom to drift.. now as my video of Vogts demonstrates he is more than capable of getting forward. His ability on the ball, the way he runs with the ball and his passing ability. This is no mediocre full back going forwards - he is quality. I think everyone gets obssessed with his goat defensive skills but forget that he is solid at going forward.
 
Joga Bonito said:
Fwiw, Effenburg is neither going to add anything to Raees's side that Zico or Neeskens isn't imo.
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Aye, Effenberg/Neeskens/Desailly is a lovely looking midfield in its own right but its surely not worth dropping Zico for.

Voted for Chester here, as Raees' keeper is the standout weak point on show.
 
Raees said:
I was worried that if I use Kalle as left on paper, people would argue that he isnt used there usually. Instead he starts on right but has freedom to drift.. now as my video of Vogts demonstrates he is more than capable of getting forward. His ability on the ball, the way he runs with the ball and his passing ability. This is no mediocre full back going forwards - he is quality. I think everyone gets obssessed with his goat defensive skills but forget that he is solid at going forward.
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Missing the point. Vogts can't use his good offensive abilities if he is staying back and covering Sammer's forays forward.
 
Physiocrat said:
Missing the point. Vogts can't use his good offensive abilities if he is staying back and covering Sammer's forays forward.
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Yes but Sammer won't always be bombing forward. Vogts can provide support play when we are in possession. Anyway as stated it is through the left we will build up play.
 
Raees was right to build his midfield around Zico. He's the top boy here up against arguably the weakest of Chester's midfielders. It's not as if his central midfield pairing lack anything defensively. While Effenberg would add a further layer of solidity, it's not required given the dynamism and calibre of the partnership on the park.
 
Physiocrat said:
Missing the point. Vogts can't use his good offensive abilities if he is staying back and covering Sammer's forays forward.
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Sammer used to attack a lot because he was generally the sweeper in a 3-5-2 system. So, he had the freedom to attack like Passarella did with Argentina.

IMHO - given the tactical system and the opposing team - Sammer will have only one mission here: cover Nasazzi marking Gerd Muller.
 
Raees said:
Yes but Sammer won't always be bombing forward. Vogts can provide support play when we are in possession. Anyway as stated it is through the left we will build up play.
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In that case I don't see the point of Sammer. A quality, normal ball-playing CB like Da Guia would have made more sense to allow Vogts more offensive freedom to support Kalle.
 
Jansen may be the weakest of my midfielders (tough competition, though), but I don't ask him to run the show either. He's there to play a no-frills sort of hounding role of the kind he mastered better than most. The only question mark over him, as I see it, is to what extent it's realistic to expect him to contribute all that much offensively (the Matthews/support bit) – but it's not a major part of my game plan to begin with, more of an added, potential worry for my opponent.

As for the Zico/Jansen situation, Zico operates – offensively – as part of an attacking four here, he isn't an added offensive threat on top of the main attackers – similar to what Charlton must necessarily be for me. I'm basically, numerically, defending with four against four in a balanced scenario – same as my opponent is. In other words, Zico can't create a sudden imbalance by getting the better of Jansen (who isn't tasked with following the Brazilian around the park anyway), it's a different sort of configuration: Regarded chess board style, Zico and Tostao are up against my CBs, with Rummenigge and Best up against my FBs, that's the basic picture - Jansen comes on top of that regarded as a defender, with Desailly as his counterpart in R's team.

Then you have Neeskens as the added number in the equation, offensively (in terms of added attacking force and/or creativity) for him – and Falcao for me. His sixth man is clearly a better defender than mine – but Jansen, on the other hand, is far more likely to contribute with something (see above) at the other end of the spectrum, being more of an allrounder.

Müller is the best finisher on the park, more likely than any other player here to grab his chance when it falls to him – and he's up against my opponent's clear weak point (well, up against...at least, he's doing his finishing against a sub-par keeper in this context).
 
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