The dangerous logic in saying "Ole needs to finish the season"

Frank Grimes said:
Some people seem to think he's not up to bringing us the major titles, mate. Obviously weren't around in 89/90 when some impatient fans were calling for Sir Alex's head. Look through a lot of these forums and Ole is getting pelters, crazy I know(the Atalanta game was less than 5 days ago). The modern fan wants everything on tap.
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I was around in both.

Some people, such as yourself, make lazy comparisons between managers of completely different pedigree and in different eras. SAF earned his time because he broke up the duopoly in Scotland and won the league with Aberdeen. Ole has relegated Cardiff. One earned his goodwill and the other did not.
 
This is a tough ask even if Ole was an experience and successful manager. Its like a boxer, those kind of defeats take a lot out of you physically and mentally. That's the biggest club game watched by millions and players with be questioning themselves along with the manager.
 
Neville is becoming a major problem, IMO. With his elevated profile through the media as one of the largest football voices in the country and being a very successful former player here, there’s a genuine fear that the United board are listening to his reasoning, thinking he’s representing the feelings of United fans en masse. It couldn’t be further from the truth.

His illogical and delusional claims that we should give Solskjaer until the end of the season because a) we have hired ‘world class’ managers before and it didn’t work out, and b) he sacked a manager last season after six weeks and he’s since regretted it, are both very dangerous and highly irresponsible comparisons to make when taking Solskjaer’s current position into consideration.

Our manager’s job is untenable at this juncture - there is simply no excusing yesterday’s result, nor the performances over the past six months. A lot of us said it over the summer that the excuses for Solskjaer stop right now as he’s received the backing he asked for - and more backing than any manager post-Ferguson - yet he’s won the least, which is precisely diddly squat. Moyes, van Gaal and Mourinho were all derided yet they got the team over the line on the big day when it mattered. Solskjaer continually flatters to deceive but his supporters continually make excuses for him. There was no hiding place for him this year and the chickens are coming home to roost.

Neville has a major part to play in all this, and when the dust eventually settles after the inevitable and inescapable sacking of Solskjaer, I hope he’s reminded of it and taken to task.
 
Anyting other than a title challenge means that this forum is going to be a unbearably toxic place for the rest of the year. Of course a lot of the vitrol is warranted right now but earlier in the season its been the same.

If mods actually took action to adress the heated tone here maybe this place would be fun to attend again, but right now its just a place filled with gotchas and people wanting to be right about being angry.

It peaked when someone made a thread saying they were happy we lost. That was the peak for me in regards to how low you can sink as a fan of this club.
 
Wumming
VP89 said:
I was around in both.

Some people, such as yourself, make lazy comparisons between managers of completely different pedigree and in different eras. SAF earned his time because he broke up the duopoly in Scotland and won the league with Aberdeen. Ole has relegated Cardiff. One earned his goodwill and the other did not.
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What, so just give up on Ole when he's just getting going?
 
Frank Grimes said:
What, so just give up on Ole when he's just getting going?
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He's not getting going. He's 3 seasons in and we currently look worse than before he joined, with star studded quality on top. And he has no goodwill in his previous endeavours to warrant faith in turning it around.
 
Tom Cato said:
Anyting other than a title challenge means that this forum is going to be a unbearably toxic place for the rest of the year. Of course a lot of the vitrol is warranted right now but earlier in the season its been the same.

If mods actually took action to adress the heated tone here maybe this place would be fun to attend again, but right now its just a place filled with gotchas and people wanting to be right about being angry.

It peaked when someone made a thread saying they were happy we lost. That was the peak for me in regards to how low you can sink as a fan of this club.
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Bolded bit the key.

No one is happy about yesterday, no one, but people actually seem to be enjoying the max level of toxic energy at the moment, this is peak level for them. Been reveling in it for the last 2 years even when we were decent enough, now it's payback and are absolutely loving it. Strange times.

People seem to think as well if you weren't Ole out at any costs no matter what, you seem to be the reason why we aren't good at the moment. More daft thinking to be honest.
 
Anyone still backing Ole to bring major titles is certifiable and needs to be institutionalized.
 
Tom Cato said:
Anyting other than a title challenge means that this forum is going to be a unbearably toxic place for the rest of the year. Of course a lot of the vitrol is warranted right now but earlier in the season its been the same.

If mods actually took action to adress the heated tone here maybe this place would be fun to attend again, but right now its just a place filled with gotchas and people wanting to be right about being angry.

It peaked when someone made a thread saying they were happy we lost. That was the peak for me in regards to how low you can sink as a fan of this club.
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While I agree about the state of the place I dont agree with your first sentence.
Title? Forget the title someone needs to save the season.
Wheels are falling of quickly.
If earlier in the season there was the same atmosphere I get it that was not warranted. But right now, after we got destroyed by our fierce rivals.. Of course people are angry.
 
Tom Cato said:
If mods actually took action to adress the heated tone here maybe this place would be fun to attend again, but right now its just a place filled with gotchas and people wanting to be right about being angry.
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People want the team to play good football and win titles. Meanwhile, people like you where content on the team being shit as long as you could signal your faith and how "good" a fan you are, while the people who saw where it was going from the start where painted as plastics, "bad fans" et cetera.

I'm not getting behind people who called Ole names, but I can't get behind people who think it's sacrilege to criticise this big pile of shit either, all the while they freely shit on other managers who do a decent job, like Rodgers or Tuchel (before he got the Chelsea job). Get real mate, the board and management have turned us into a punching bag, and the easiest and most effective change we can do now is the manager. Ole is way out of his depth, and keeping him till the end of the season can be catastrophic in terms of attracting and retaining talent.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
Its 8 games in and we are still top of the champions league group, its way too early to treat the season as a write off and either let him manage it out or look for a caretaker manager. A good manager can salvage everything.
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Top if fhe champs league group, can you honestly see us going any further? We will continue to get hammered unless there is a change.
Varane has been a big mise and without him we look a mess. Never been a fan of Linds and feel he is a real weak link.
 
I think any other team in the league would sack him, probably today, if they was in this position. Theres no logic to keeping him as he clearly doesn’t know how to fix things. Getting a new manager in before the end of the season gives him a better chance to judge the players and more time for coaching, which we need a lot of.
 
If we stick with Ole much longer then I think 4th place could be in jeapordy as the morale is getting lower and I can't imagine Ronaldo is being quiet about the amateur hour bullshit going on around him, where as before we had players who's demands and expectations weren't anywhere near as high.
 
I'm not sure about the notion we'll become less attractive. We've had no bother attracting big name players under Oles stewardship so why would it make a big difference if we have another slumbering season now?

Man Utd can always attract players because of the insane money on offer. Simple as that. Throw in the big name manager everyone wants and it'll be a rosey "project" again. That's how football is, very short term.
 
He should have until the end of the season and so think he’ll get it, far to many short memories on here but we need to string run of victories together which looks unlikely as of now but stranger things have happened.
 
VP89 said:
I've seen this line by a lot of supporters who have now realized Ole isn't the right man for the job and of course Rio, Scholes, Neville have said the same.

I find this a terribly dangerous proposition, and the ex-players have put themselves to shame by suggesting this. I fully understand the protection of Ole as he's an absolute legend, and for ex-players they never want to say he needs to go outright. But they can critique the style of play and the press etc. and indirectly suggest this, rather than say "he needs the season".

If Ole stays I think it's plausible that we win nothing and fall out of top 4. Of course our quality is too high and I think we will more likely finish 4th, but there will be toxicity and unrest among big players on the way. The likes of Bruno is negotiating a new contract now, of course Pogba is in talks and the likes of Ronaldo and Varane will be disgruntled by the mess. We will become a less attractive "project" for big players in the future after yet another season with a mile off the top and starting 6 months too late with a new manager.

Gary Neville himself says "Ole needs this season" before also saying "he needs a trophy". Can anyone explain this logic to me? We are out the title race probably, we are out the Carabao Cup. Does he think we will win the Champions League? Or is he insinuating the FA Cup should be sufficient for him to get a 4th crack? Does he even think Ole can win the FA Cup?! Surely not.

And for any other supporters saying Ole needs at least this season before the summer to revisit coaching staff, can you explain why? I'm not seeing the case for keeping him even for another week from any angle. I'd rather get an actual coach on caretaker, even someone like Blanc in for 8 months. It's clear there is nothing implemented with this side and it's only going to get more toxic.
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It’s traditional for a new United manager to start the season with a Europa Cup campaign
 
I said a-few weeks ago I wouldn't be opposed to him seeing the season out, if it meant we were putting the wheels in motion for his successor at the end of the season.

That was prior to the last 8/9 days. Watching us the last 3 matches has absolutely torn that thought process to shreds. He has to go as soon as possible and an interim needs to be appointed. Watching us yesterday, was the lowest point for me since Jose's final days. I tried being as pragmatic as I could be about him, despite the massive red flags, but this just has to end soon.
 
Chelsea literally won Champions League and have made themselves title favorites from the 9th position by sacking a club legend and replacing him with a top coach. The only concern is there are no obvious candidates similar to Tuchel out there but it shouldn't prevent us from doing what should be done.
 
Ole fans are becoming a cult, the love for Ole is trumping the love for the club. How can we gamble the season hoping Ole might salvage top 4 for what reason? Another manager can come in and get top 4 easily but because Ole is a club legend he gets the privilege of playing with the club and the fans feeling. If the club keeps Ole it’s because he’s a yes man and the Glazers can control Ole and by yesterday’s reaction from the fans clapping him they’ve got us exactly where they want us….We are the new Arsenal!
 
For people to still be defending him after yesterday is genuinely heartbreaking - his time is up, we just got humiliated by a rotated Liverpool team AT OT and look as far as we have ever done from a PL challenge. The club should always be your priority, not some blind sense of faith to a club legend. Especially one with no success in management at the top level.

Glazers don’t care but it doesn’t mean fans shouldn’t. Ole has always given his best, it just wasn’t anywhere close to good enough.
 
Will Singh said:
Ole fans are becoming a cult, the love for Ole is trumping the love for the club. How can we gamble the season hoping Ole might salvage top 4 for what reason? Another manager can come in and get top 4 easily but because Ole is a club legend he gets the privilege of playing with the club and the fans feeling. If the club keeps Ole it’s because he’s a yes man and the Glazers can control Ole and by yesterday’s reaction from the fans clapping him they’ve got us exactly where they want us….We are the new Arsenal!
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Not really, it seems your own attitude is what is liable to create a divide and more likely to create cult like behaviour. Moaning about people having a different opinion to yourself. You simply have to get over the fact that people are allowed to think differently without suggesting they are hurting the club. Chances are, nobody has any say except the ownership.
 
Abraxas said:
I'm not sure about the notion we'll become less attractive. We've had no bother attracting big name players under Oles stewardship so why would it make a big difference if we have another slumbering season now?
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Haaland, Bellingham, Dybala to name a couple.


Pogba will likely leave if there's no CL football next season. And good luck attracting promising players now that everyone's seen the treatment DVB got, and what Sancho is likely to get.
 
Frank Grimes said:
This Ole bashing is getting tiresome. One poor game and everyone is going do lally. Not even a quarter of the season gone , all the teams will take points off each other.
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The Ole cult has new bishop I see, after UnitedSofa vacated the position.
 
VP89 said:
I've seen this line by a lot of supporters who have now realized Ole isn't the right man for the job and of course Rio, Scholes, Neville have said the same.

I find this a terribly dangerous proposition, and the ex-players have put themselves to shame by suggesting this. I fully understand the protection of Ole as he's an absolute legend, and for ex-players they never want to say he needs to go outright. But they can critique the style of play and the press etc. and indirectly suggest this, rather than say "he needs the season".

If Ole stays I think it's plausible that we win nothing and fall out of top 4. Of course our quality is too high and I think we will more likely finish 4th, but there will be toxicity and unrest among big players on the way. The likes of Bruno is negotiating a new contract now, of course Pogba is in talks and the likes of Ronaldo and Varane will be disgruntled by the mess. We will become a less attractive "project" for big players in the future after yet another season with a mile off the top and starting 6 months too late with a new manager.

Gary Neville himself says "Ole needs this season" before also saying "he needs a trophy". Can anyone explain this logic to me? We are out the title race probably, we are out the Carabao Cup. Does he think we will win the Champions League? Or is he insinuating the FA Cup should be sufficient for him to get a 4th crack? Does he even think Ole can win the FA Cup?! Surely not.

And for any other supporters saying Ole needs at least this season before the summer to revisit coaching staff, can you explain why? I'm not seeing the case for keeping him even for another week from any angle. I'd rather get an actual coach on caretaker, even someone like Blanc in for 8 months. It's clear there is nothing implemented with this side and it's only going to get more toxic.
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The acute necessity is for the team to re-establish a functioning game and basic confidence and competitiveness. If that doesn't happen, we're in a death spiral that can only have destructive effects on the squad and on our future prospects, and might at worst create a need for another major reconstruction job. That would be to squander everything that has been built since Mourinho. If OGS can do that, fine. The question is if he can. But it's hard to see right now the case for thinking that he can. And if he's kept on, and it turns out he can't, then it would be a disaster.

Which to me means it's odd, to say the least, to argue that he needs the rest of the season, without adding any caveats.
 
Eplel said:
Haaland, Bellingham, Dybala to name a couple.


Pogba will likely leave if there's no CL football next season. And good luck attracting promising players now that everyone's seen the treatment DVB got, and what Sancho is likely to get.
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There are always going to be players we don't get for various reasons. So what?

I think you're just going OTT after that result. Everything is doom and gloom. Man Utd will have no bother attracting top talent.

If you get a good manager, offer these guys barrels full of money, whisper sweet nothings about philosophies and projects, that's generally enough. Even if we finish outside top 4, which is very much still up for grabs.
 
Sarni said:
Chelsea literally won Champions League and have made themselves title favorites from the 9th position by sacking a club legend and replacing him with a top coach. The only concern is there are no obvious candidates similar to Tuchel out there but it shouldn't prevent us from doing what should be done.
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I’m not sure why people keep repeating this. Conte, Zidane are available. I’m not saying both of them are our best bets and sure thing, but obviously top class managers are available and always have been.
 
VP89 said:
I was around in both.

Some people, such as yourself, make lazy comparisons between managers of completely different pedigree and in different eras. SAF earned his time because he broke up the duopoly in Scotland and won the league with Aberdeen. Ole has relegated Cardiff. One earned his goodwill and the other did not.
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Agreed. SAF took a club the size of Cardiff and won European trophies with them……Ole got Cardiff relegated. There is absolutely no comparison between the two.
 
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Abraxas said:
Not really, it seems your own attitude is what is liable to create a divide and more likely to create cult like behaviour. Moaning about people having a different opinion to yourself. You simply have to get over the fact that people are allowed to think differently without suggesting they are hurting the club. Chances are, nobody has any say except the ownership.
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What you’ve said has proved my point. It’s people like you who are hurting the club and creating divide. It’s ok for you to call out my attitude and say I’m moaning but if I do the same I’m creating divide. Listen to yourself son!
 
Will Singh said:
What you’ve said has proved my point. It’s people like you who are hurting the club and creating divide. It’s ok for you to call out my attitude and say I’m moaning but if I do the same I’m creating divide. Listen to yourself son!
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Ignore him, I have a strong suspicion that's Gary Neville's account.
 
Will Singh said:
What you’ve said has proved my point. It’s people like you who are hurting the club and creating divide. It’s ok for you to call out my attitude and say I’m moaning but if I do the same I’m creating divide. Listen to yourself son!
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Yes, because you're moaning about others hurting the club, that's the distinction you're failing to grasp. That's the type of behaviour that creates cults and divides among support and just isnt helpful to anyone. Whereas questioning an opinion does not.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
Its 8 games in and we are still top of the champions league group, its way too early to treat the season as a write off and either let him manage it out or look for a caretaker manager. A good manager can salvage everything.
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We lost 5-0 at home to Liverpool. That is unacceptable. Or at least it should be.
 
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