The 'class' element of the Olympics

Badunk

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I'm not talking about something being 'class' (brilliant), but rather the idea that so many of the events are born of snobbery and elitism. It's already been hinted at in the media in the past few days, but if you look at the 'sports' involved in the Games, it's shocking to see how many of them are basically played by toffs, or can only reasonably be accessed by toffs.

Archery
Athletics
Badminton
Basketball
Beach Volleyball
Boxing
Canoe Slalom
Canoe Sprint
Cycling - BMX
Cycling - Mountain Bike
Cycling - Road
Cycling - Track

Diving
Equestrian
Fencing
Football
Gymnastics - Artistic
Gymnastics - Rhythmic
Handball
Hockey
Judo
Modern Pentathlon
Rowing
Sailing

Shooting
Swimming
Synchronised Swimming
Table Tennis
Taekwondo
Tennis
Trampoline
Triathlon
Volleyball
Water Polo
Weightlifting
Wrestling


Even sports that you might think are very much rooted in working class traditions (like boxing) aren't what they seem. The Marquis of Queensbury, anyone?

Besides, the 'amateur' side of athletics and other sports was usually set up by the upper classes, who were getting twatted by 'professionals' (ie- poorer people who competed for money) and wanted to set up organisations to exclude the commoners because they couldn't compete on a level playing field. A bit like taking your ball home coz your team is getting beaten.

Maybe you've noticed that the huge medal haul by GB is based on riding horses, rowing boats, sailing yachts, shooting stuff or riding bikes. Maybe it doesn't bother you that a disproportinately high number of Team GB's medal winners were privately educated. But then, maybe you didn't realise this. Maybe the 'classless society' you thought you were living in is a load of bollocks and it has dawned on you that the Oxbridge set still run everything and are still showing you that they are better than you :)

What do you reckon, guys? Should we be dropping dressage for darts? Modern pentathlon for snooker? Canoeing for cribbage?
 
Well one things for sure , we know where Governments sports funding went.
 
cinc said:
feck me, if there was an unsnobbiest event at the olympics, it would be Penthathlon.
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Modern pentathlon, dude. It's shooting, fencing, show-jumping and something else and something else (can't remember)..
 
Drifter said:
Well one things for sure , we know where Governments sports funding went.
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Yeah, during that dressage, the commentator was crowing about the lottery money being well spent. We're paying for these toffs to fart about on horses to music.
 
Isn't the Olympics just basically an event for middle class people who don't really enjoy watching it that much but watch it because they're supposed to?
 
Badunk said:
Modern pentathlon, dude. It's shooting, fencing, show-jumping and something else and something else (can't remember)..
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Running. Have you seen a single event in your life? The people involved in it are very rarely come from highly educated or rich families, but tenacious as hell. Hungary is one of the best in this, surrounded by former soviet states. I know a few penthatlonists, not one of them is a snob.

Shooting and show-jumping is done on lent equipment/horses, a fencing-sword costs about as much as a United shirt and running shoes aren't too expensive either.

A high performance swimming suit costs about twice as much as these.
 
cinc said:
Running. Have you seen a single event in your life? The people involved in it are very rarely come from highly educated or rich families, but tenacious as hell. Hungary is one of the best in this, surrounded by former soviet states. I know a few penthatlonists, not one of them is a snob.

Shooting and show-jumping is done on lent equipment/horses, a fencing-sword costs about as much as a United shirt and running shoes aren't too expensive either.
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Fair enough, point taken. In your country it is less of an elitist pursuit. I can only speak of where I'm from.
 
I think we are all waiting for that certain someone to come in and defend Equestrian, water polo (not a patch on the real game of course) and fencing (you can really tell a fellows character after a good spar).
 
Badunk said:
Maybe it doesn't bother you that a disproportinately high number of Team GB's medal winners were privately educated. But then, maybe you didn't realise this.
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The reason that people who were privately educated are vastly over-represented is because those schools actually have decent sports facilities, and make plenty of time in the curriculum for sports. The fact they might be posh is irrelevant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millfield

Just take a look at the facilities there. As a result they churn out Olympians (not just from GB by the way).

Badunk said:
Modern pentathlon, dude. It's shooting, fencing, show-jumping and something else and something else (can't remember)..
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They're dropping it.
 
Pexbo said:
I think we are all waiting for that certain someone to come in and defend Equestrian, water polo (not a patch on the real game of course) and fencing (you can really tell a fellows character after a good spar).
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I'm here for that. Water Polo has nothing in common with your fancy pants sport. The only connection it has with Polo is that it was invented in the UK (as an event at county fairs in the 19th century). All you need is a swimming suit (actually two) and a hat, costs about 20 pounds. Football is more elitist than Waterpolo.

Not to mention cricket or athletics.
 
I think a lot come out of private/public schools because they still have competitive sports, unlike a lot of infant/junior/senior schools where they don't want our little darlings to be upset if they lose. You learn life's lessons by losing sometimes.
 
Well, the Olympics as a whole, is an event that only a few countries can do well at. Funding, cost of equipment, cost of training, training facilities etc mean it really isn't a "fair" contest. Add that to athletes switching nationalities (heard a fair bit about "Plastic Brits" - a term I didn't know existed), and it really isn't a fair contest.
 
Commenting on the "class" element, I would definitely agree - a lot of the sports take money that not everybody has.
 
From wiki:


The ethos of the aristocracy as exemplified in the English Independent school greatly influenced Pierre de Coubertin.[122] The independent schools subscribed to the belief that sport formed an important part of education, an attitude summed up in the saying mens sana in corpore sano, a sound mind in a sound body. In this ethos, a gentleman was one who became an all-rounder, not the best at one specific thing. There was also a prevailing concept of fairness, in which practicing or training was considered tantamount to cheating.[122] Those who practiced a sport professionally were considered to have an unfair advantage over those who practiced it merely as a hobby.[122]

The exclusion of professionals caused several controversies throughout the history of the modern Olympics. The 1912 Olympic pentathlon and decathlon champion Jim Thorpe was stripped of his medals when it was discovered that he had played semi-professional baseball before the Olympics. His medals were posthumously restored by the IOC in 1983 on compassionate grounds.[123] Swiss and Austrian skiers boycotted the 1936 Winter Olympics in support of their skiing teachers, who were not allowed to compete because they earned money with their sport and were thus considered professionals.[124]

As class structure evolved through the 20th century, the definition of the amateur athlete as an aristocratic gentleman became outdated.[122] The advent of the state-sponsored "full-time amateur athlete" of the Eastern Bloc countries further eroded the ideology of the pure amateur, as it put the self-financed amateurs of the Western countries at a disadvantage. Nevertheless, the IOC held to the traditional rules regarding amateurism.[125] Beginning in the 1970s, amateurism requirements were gradually phased out of the Olympic Charter. After the 1988 Games, the IOC decided to make all professional athletes eligible for the Olympics, subject to the approval of the IFs.[126] As of 2004, the only sports in which no professionals compete are boxing and wrestling, although even this requires a definition of amateurism based on fight rules rather than on payment, as some boxers and wrestlers receive cash prizes from their National Olympic Committees. In men's association football (soccer), only three professional players over the age of 23 are eligible to participate per team in the Olympic tournament.
 
nm03 said:
Well, the Olympics as a whole, is an event that only a few countries can do well at. Funding, cost of equipment, cost of training, training facilities etc mean it really isn't a "fair" contest. Add that to athletes switching nationalities (heard a fair bit about "Plastic Brits" - a term I didn't know existed), and it really isn't a fair contest.
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That's not entirely true. The Hungarian sport receives considerably less money from the state and sponsors than the budget of United, yet we are 8th in the medal table.
 
cinc said:
That's not entirely true. The Hungarian sport receives considerably less money from the state and sponsors than the budget of United, yet we are 8th in the medal table.
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I am speaking generally cinc. You are speaking about one nation.
 
Badunk said:
Is modern pentathlon part of your nation's sporting history, cinc?
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It is. We compete since 1952 (the heyday of communism) and won 20 medals at the olympics, 8 golds. Plus 36 World Championship golds (91 medals in all). It's part of our national sport history, just as Football, Water Polo, Fencing, Kayaking, gymnastics (Pommel horse, really), handball and wrestling.
 
So, would it be fair to say (and I'm only trying to understand, not knock you) that it was state-sponsored, being an eastern bloc country? In the same way that East Germany put a lot of emphasis on women's swimming, Romania would do the same in gymnastics, and so on?
 
Badunk said:
So, would it be fair to say (and I'm only trying to understand, not knock you) that it was state-sponsored, being an eastern bloc country? In the same way that East Germany put a lot of emphasis on women's swimming, Romania would do the same in gymnastics, and so on?
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As everything was state-sponsored from a loaf of bread to beer - it was communism, after all, yes. But if you ask whether there was a push by the state for these successes, no. Between 1949 and 1956 there was a huge emphasis on sports as it was seen as a propaganda tool (just like it is in China now), but after that it wasn't anymore
 
Right, ok. As I said, it's interesting that you have a different take on these sports which are really on played and accessed by the more priveledged members of our society in the UK.
 
cinc said:
Yeah, I speak of one nation that is an exception to your rule. I have a feeling it's not the only one.
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Definitely not. With 200 countries I would doubt that. Add specific state funding for certain sports, physical make up of athletes etc, and it isn't a uniform. But generally the countries that spend the most $$ win the most medals.
 
Those elites and their BMX bikes, every time I try to walk to the local crepe store I get 5 people in coattails popping wheelies in my face.

Basketball too, and I can't understand their elitist slang, I feel so excluded.
 
This is one of the worst threads I've ever seen. Socialism at its worst. How about we ban sprinters who go through elite training programmes because they get high tech boots that other countries can't afford? How about we ban swimming because there aren't enough Olympic sized pools? How about we ban the pole vault because a nation can't afford those bendy poles? On a slightly different note it's amazing how all those NFL players come from impoverished families with the cost of kit and all ...

As I said in the other thread in reaction to his incessant moaning, it's Badunk playing working class hero on his laptop whilst watching the Olympics on his HDTV. Virtually any of these sports are successful to anyone in the UK with enough dedication and sacrifice - just see the Dujardin story with the dressage, who isn't a "toff". Personally not an event I like, but I respect the dedication and hours put into it.

All this is borne out of resentment, anyway. What would you rather these "toffs" do, fritter all their money away by being a socialite?
 
mightberight said:
This is one of the worst threads I've ever seen. Socialism at its worst. How about we ban sprinters who go through elite training programmes because they get high tech boots that other countries can't afford? How about we ban swimming because there aren't enough Olympic sized pools? How about we ban the pole vault because a nation can't afford those bendy poles? On a slightly different note it's amazing how all those NFL players come from impoverished families with the cost of kit and all ...

As I said in the other thread in reaction to his incessant moaning, it's Badunk playing working class hero on his laptop whilst watching the Olympics on his HDTV. Virtually any of these sports are successful to anyone in the UK with enough dedication and sacrifice - just see the Dujardin story with the dressage, who isn't a "toff". Personally not an event I like, but I respect the dedication and hours put into it.

All this is borne out of resentment, anyway. What would you rather these "toffs" do, fritter all their money away by being a socialite?
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A bunch of personal attacks on me and not much about the OP?

Thanks for your input, comrade.
 
Badunk said:
A bunch of personal attacks on me and not much about the OP?

Thanks for your input, comrade.
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Considering your opening post was laced with bigotry, how can you not expect me to criticise you? Especially when you set it up as if the rest of the UK is barely over the bread line and can't afford to buy a bike or, join a gymnastics club, or ... wrestle?
 
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