The chase for 4th place (not top 4)

Its another clean sheet for us. Only City have more (equal with Liverpool and ahead of Chelsea).

Arteta needs to sort Lacazette out. Either play Martinelli upfront, or ESR as a false 9.

That being said, im actually really confident about our chances.
 
bond19821982 said:
We are going through one of our worst seasons I have ever seen and yet , Arsenal are only 1 point ahead. That says more about them and their current state.
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Were a team of babies. Saka 20, Martinelli 21, ESR, 21, Tomiyasu, 22, White 24, Ramsdale 23, Gabriel 23, Tierney, 24, Odegaard, 22. As far as our first 11 goes. only Xhaka, Partey and Lacazette are over 25. And to be honest Xhaka and Lacazette are two of our poorest performers. The current Arsenal team is about as raw as it can get. We are basically an under 23's team.

United fans keep deferring to their squad & the players in it. Veterans who have won league titles in other countries, CL's, been to multiple World Cups and even won world cups and european championships. And yet these 'stars on paper' are currently a head length behind in the race for 4th.

Its not Arsenal who are faltering, its United. Like I said, we are effectively an under 23's team and the plan to get better with experience. But United's team has players in their peak years - Pogba, Maguire, De Gea, Bruno, Rashford, Lindelöf, and those in their final years - Ronaldo, Cavani, Mata.
 
VP89 said:
A great wum attempt to try and discount United. Why do now minnow rivals always do this?

Anyway, I took a look at the fixture list. If we get the points our recent result performances have deserved then we can clock on a good tally against Southampton, Brighton, Leeds and Watford. Not easy but very doable, and that will put a feckload of pressure on Arsenal to perform in their postponed games (Chelsea, Liverpool) to stay with the pace.
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MO has very strong views it seems shall we say, not really shared by the majority of Arsenal fans on here.

Looking at your point, I think the the way the fixtures run are quite similar for both teams. When you play those 4 games, we play Brentford, Wolves, Leicester at home at Watford away.

So we'll likely play a lot of our rearranged games at the same time as your tough run starts. However, all teams seem capable of dropping points to anyone, so we'll be revisiting this every matchday it seems.
 
GoonerBear said:
MO has very strong views it seems shall we say, not really shared by the majority of Arsenal fans on here.

Looking at your point, I think the the way the fixtures run are quite similar for both teams. When you play those 4 games, we play Brentford, Wolves, Leicester at home at Watford away.

So we'll likely play a lot of our rearranged games at the same time as your tough run starts. However, all teams seem capable of dropping points to anyone, so we'll be revisiting this every matchday it seems.
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Yeah your good run starts when our bad one kicks off. I think thats why its important United win the next 4, so that Arsenal have it all to do in their runs coming up. The games vs the bigger sides may be the difference, and I weirdly feel quite confident in that regard.
 
VP89 said:
Yeah your good run starts when our bad one kicks off. I think thats why its important United win the next 4, so that Arsenal have it all to do in their runs coming up. The games vs the bigger sides may be the difference, and I weirdly feel quite confident in that regard.
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Our home form has been generally good this season, so I'm confident about most of the games we play at home now. I agree that the big games will be massive, & I'm more confident of playing you guys at home than Old Trafford for instance, where we always tend to struggle. Obviously on the flip side that means having to go to Chelsea and Spurs will be tough.

Just think given the patchy form of all the teams we're going to analyse this over and over on a weekly basis, 1 bad result for 1 team will have lots on here ruling that team out, until the other teams lose a game and we'll go round in circles again.

As others have said, ill be surprised if this doesn't go down to the wire.
 
GoonerBear said:
Just think given the patchy form of all the teams we're going to analyse this over and over on a weekly basis, 1 bad result for 1 team will have lots on here ruling that team out, until the other teams lose a game and we'll go round in circles again.

As others have said, ill be surprised if this doesn't go down to the wire.
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Yep.
 
Arsenal have been winning games or getting a draw that they should have lost. Man Utd are losing games or getting a draw in games they should have won.
 
GoonerInPeace said:
Were a team of babies. Saka 20, Martinelli 21, ESR, 21, Tomiyasu, 22, White 24, Ramsdale 23, Gabriel 23, Tierney, 24, Odegaard, 22. As far as our first 11 goes. only Xhaka, Partey and Lacazette are over 25. And to be honest Xhaka and Lacazette are two of our poorest performers. The current Arsenal team is about as raw as it can get. We are basically an under 23's team.

United fans keep deferring to their squad & the players in it. Veterans who have won league titles in other countries, CL's, been to multiple World Cups and even won world cups and european championships. And yet these 'stars on paper' are currently a head length behind in the race for 4th.

Its not Arsenal who are faltering, its United. Like I said, we are effectively an under 23's team and the plan to get better with experience. But United's team has players in their peak years - Pogba, Maguire, De Gea, Bruno, Rashford, Lindelöf, and those in their final years - Ronaldo, Cavani, Mata.
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How's that anything related to what I said. It was your choice to go with the babies (by the way the babies who cost you millions ).

United faltering ? Thank you for that, I didn't know that . That's probably news to me.

We are having one of the worst seasons I have ever seen and you are still not running away . So either you are also having one of the worst season or this is your best you can do under Arteta ? Either ways, it tells more about you and not us.
 
bond19821982 said:
How's that anything related to what I said. It was your choice to go with the babies (by the way the babies who cost you millions ).

United faltering ? Thank you for that, I didn't know that . That's probably news to me.

We are having one of the worst seasons I have ever seen and you are still not running away . So either you are also having one of the worst season or this is your best you can do under Arteta ? Either ways, it tells more about you and not us.
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What an odd post? start of the season, who had Arsenal down for a chance of top 4?.... (cue tumbleweed). Yet we are 'having one of the worst seasons' apparently?

Man Utd on the other hand, finished 2nd, added Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho, all on ridiculous wages. Many people here had you down to win the league (not me mind), and you are behind us at this stage.

I get it that people don't like Arsenal here, but to slag them like you do with this weird air of superiority whilst stinking the place out against teams like Middlesboro, and having a keeper who has made way more saves than anyone else, including all the relegation fodder. I can take City and Liverpool fans saying Arsenal are rubbish, as comparatively, we certainly are.

I have a lot of respect for Man Utd actually, tremendous club, but people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, and Utd currently live in a castle made of sugar glass.
 
BurgerVan said:
What an odd post? start of the season, who had Arsenal down for a chance of top 4?.... (cue tumbleweed). Yet we are 'having one of the worst seasons' apparently?

Man Utd on the other hand, finished 2nd, added Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho, all on ridiculous wages. Many people here had you down to win the league (not me mind), and you are behind us at this stage.

I get it that people don't like Arsenal here, but to slag them like you do with this weird air of superiority whilst stinking the place out against teams like Middlesboro, and having a keeper who has made way more saves than anyone else, including all the relegation fodder. I can take City and Liverpool fans saying Arsenal are rubbish, as comparatively, we certainly are.

I have a lot of respect for Man Utd actually, tremendous club, but people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, and Utd currently live in a castle made of sugar glass.
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If I remember correctly our goal is a 6th place finish. Hopefully The FA Cup or EFL cup winners finish in top five so we can qualify for UEL or UECL. We are still rebuilding so any european competition next season is nice. Our bench is paper thin at the moment.
 
Arsenal fans getting upset that they're met with a bit of hostility on a Utd forum. Bore off.
 
Utd heap said:
Arsenal fans getting upset that they're met with a bit of hostility on a Utd forum. Bore off.
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My point a bit close to home?

I am on an Arsenal forum, and we have all sorts of other supporters there, and I think they make the place better. Odd that you are being so hostile, but I like it, as it shows you care about little ol' us.

If I had my way, Arsenal and Utd would finish top 4, at the expense of Liverpool and/or Chelsea, but sadly that is not to be for many years to come.
 
BurgerVan said:
My point a bit close to home?

I am on an Arsenal forum, and we have all sorts of other supporters there, and I think they make the place better. Odd that you are being so hostile, but I like it, as it shows you care about little ol' us.

If I had my way, Arsenal and Utd would finish top 4, at the expense of Liverpool and/or Chelsea, but sadly that is not to be for many years to come.
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I'm not hostile im just slagging you off. Will stop now and head to the pub.
 
BurgerVan said:
What an odd post? start of the season, who had Arsenal down for a chance of top 4?.... (cue tumbleweed). Yet we are 'having one of the worst seasons' apparently?

Man Utd on the other hand, finished 2nd, added Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho, all on ridiculous wages. Many people here had you down to win the league (not me mind), and you are behind us at this stage.

I get it that people don't like Arsenal here, but to slag them like you do with this weird air of superiority whilst stinking the place out against teams like Middlesboro, and having a keeper who has made way more saves than anyone else, including all the relegation fodder. I can take City and Liverpool fans saying Arsenal are rubbish, as comparatively, we certainly are.

I have a lot of respect for Man Utd actually, tremendous club, but people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, and Utd currently live in a castle made of sugar glass.
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What's odd about it ? The fact I mentioned about united going through a disaster season? Or the one I spoke about Arsenal having a normal season ?

You are having normal or a decent season (however way you want to call it) and we are having a quite bad one. Yet, I don't see any major difference in the PL table. Point being, we are shit but you are equally shit that you can't take advantage of the disaster seasons United or even Spurs is having.
 
In 2016 nobody expected Arsenal to win the league but the fact they didn’t with how it played out was an opportunity blown. Same set of circumstances here. If Arteta can’t get them to finish ahead of these horrible United and spurs sides he would have failed.
 
Ludens the Red said:
In 2016 nobody expected Arsenal to win the league but the fact they didn’t with how it played out was an opportunity blown. Same set of circumstances here. If Arteta can’t get them to finish ahead of these horrible United and spurs sides he would have failed.
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Arsenal have the youngest team in the league and one of the youngest in the top five leagues. We just sold our prior talisman to Barcelona in the middle of the season.

In 2015-16, a lot of people actually did go into the year thinking that Arsenal had a chance to challenge. Wenger had built his team, almost all the key players were in their primes, they had finished the previous season with a very strong second half, we bought Cech to address what seemed like the team's biggest weakness. There was more optimism among Arsenal fans prior to 15-16 than there had been for a long time. Completely different situation than Arsenal in 21-22 when we have such a young and transitional team that nobody expected much of anything from. If anything, United in 2021-22 are a lot more similar to Arsenal in 2015-16.
 
Powderfinger said:
Arsenal have the youngest team in the league and one of the youngest in the top five leagues. We just sold our prior talisman to Barcelona in the middle of the season.

In 2015-16, a lot of people actually did go into the year thinking that Arsenal had a chance to challenge. Wenger had built his team, almost all the key players were in their primes, they had finished the previous season with a very strong second half, we bought Cech to address what seemed like the team's biggest weakness. There was more optimism among Arsenal fans prior to 15-16 than there had been for a long time. Completely different situation than Arsenal in 21-22 when we have such a young and transitional team that nobody expected much of anything from. If anything, United in 2021-22 are a lot more similar to Arsenal in 2015-16.
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Yeah they’re young, don’t see the relevance in this case. Not saying arsenal should win titles etc. Just saying the way this year has now panned out they should aim for top four and be disappointed if they don’t get it.
Aubemeyang had been trash since signing the contract, played out of position a lot last season and this season has looked disinterested. Off the field he’s been turning up late for training, getting tattoos instead of turning up to training. His removal literally helped the team so I don’t see how that can be seen as detrimental.

I don’t have a great memory of pre 2015-2016 but I am 99% sure that nobody thought Arsenal would win the league at the start of the season except for maybe Ty from Arsenalfantv.
 
bond19821982 said:
How's that anything related to what I said. It was your choice to go with the babies (by the way the babies who cost you millions ).

United faltering ? Thank you for that, I didn't know that . That's probably news to me.

We are having one of the worst seasons I have ever seen and you are still not running away . So either you are also having one of the worst season or this is your best you can do under Arteta ? Either ways, it tells more about you and not us.
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Like I said, we are basically an under 23's team. This team is in its infancy and our first 11 is probably the youngest in Europe.

We are going to get better by virtue of our young players getting more experience and playing together.

Our current squad is at the beginning of a cycle, where as United team isnt young, infact most of your players are veterans or players who should be in their prime.

Why is peak United a head lengh behind Arsenal under 23's?
 
Going out on a limb and say we don’t touch 4th for the remainder of the season.
 
It's not over but only because Spurs and Arsenal are pretty shit too. Having said that I think Conte gets fourth. Best case scenario we fluke the CL but otherwise it's been a Moyes level season.
 
Only way we actually get top 4 now is if both Arsenal and Tottenham manage to lose even more points than we do and that is highly unlikely to happen.
 
In the words of a famous wrestling song "No chance in hell"

It's going to be an an absolute massacre, when we face City and Liverpool away.
 
How any arsenal fan who watches United play can come into this thread and downplay their top four chances is a mystery to me…
 
Ludens the Red said:
How any arsenal fan who watches United play can come into this thread and downplay their top four chances is a mystery to me…
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It will be close, there is no way to say which of Arsenal, United or Spurs will get 4th with certainty. All 3 clubs will probably get slapped and embarassed by City & Liverpool but they still have to play each other. Anything can happen.
United has the best players (on paper at least) and only need it to click for a few games, Spurs have a good squad and a good manager, we have a barebone squad, a good defensive unit but rubbish attack.
Definitely enjoyed today though :D
 
VP89 said:
A great wum attempt to try and discount United. Why do now minnow rivals always do this?

Anyway, I took a look at the fixture list. If we get the points our recent result performances have deserved then we can clock on a good tally against Southampton, Brighton, Leeds and Watford. Not easy but very doable, and that will put a feckload of pressure on Arsenal to perform in their postponed games (Chelsea, Liverpool) to stay with the pace.
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It's still mathematically possible but I just don't see this United team rising to the challenge.

Last time the league was this strong, you finished 6th; and will likely finish around there again.
 
After the next two games, Brighton being one of them, there is a murderous stretch for Man Utd.
 
Shouldn't this thread be called the chase for 7th because every team involved is trying to give 4th away.
 
padr81 said:
Shouldn't this thread be called the chase for 7th because every team involved is trying to give 4th away.
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This is the strongest fight for top four in a few seasons. Whoever finishes third and fourth will probably reach 70+ points.
 
We’re still finish 4th I believe, spurs aren’t great, arsenal are arsenal, we will be fine but we cant afford to slip up against Brighton, making a real mess of it though
 
4th place in recent years end up being like a parents sack race at the school sports day. United are fortunate to have other clubs in a similar state.
 
GoonerInPeace said:
Like I said, we are basically an under 23's team. This team is in its infancy and our first 11 is probably the youngest in Europe.

We are going to get better by virtue of our young players getting more experience and playing together.

Our current squad is at the beginning of a cycle, where as United team isnt young, infact most of your players are veterans or players who should be in their prime.

Why is peak United a head lengh behind Arsenal under 23's?
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I already said we are horrible, don't know what are trying to prove here.

Now, tell me what kind of season is Arsenal having ? Great ? Decent? Bad?
 
bond19821982 said:
I already said we are horrible, don't know what are trying to prove here.

Now, tell me what kind of season is Arsenal having ? Great ? Decent? Bad?
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Decent really, losing Auba is a big miss, but Martinelli has come back to form so that sort of balances out. A great season will be a top four finish, and I think that'll get settled in the last matchday, or two.
 
ThatsGreat said:
Decent really, losing Auba is a big miss, but Martinelli has come back to form so that sort of balances out. A great season will be a top four finish, and I think that'll get settled in the last matchday, or two.
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That's what's my point. You are having a decent season yet you are only one point ahead of a horrible United side. Doesn't say more about you than us ?
 
bond19821982 said:
That's what's my point. You are having a decent season yet you are only one point ahead of a horrible United side. Doesn't say more about you than us ?
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But Arsenal are exceeding expectations and building a future squad. United signed a 37-year old on 500k a week and a significant chunk of their squad is off for free in the summer.

I'm not saying Arsenal have been fantastic - our strikers in particular have been disappointing - but I think Arsenal are better positioned for the next few seasons squad wise.
 
JDDL said:
But Arsenal are exceeding expectations and building a future squad. United signed a 37-year old on 500k a week and a significant chunk of their squad is off for free in the summer.

I'm not saying Arsenal have been fantastic - our strikers in particular have been disappointing - but I think Arsenal are better positioned for the next few seasons squad wise.
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Better positioned for next few seasons ? Like all the brilliant youngsters you have been grooming for years ?

Come back to me when you actually do it. Till then, what's on board is what you see now.
 
bond19821982 said:
Better positioned for next few seasons ? Like all the brilliant youngsters you have been grooming for years ?

Come back to me when you actually do it. Till then, what's on board is what you see now.
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OK, but Man Utd are going to need a whole new squad over the next couple of seasons to replace all of their aging and disaffected players and expired contracts, which is my point - Man Utd are in the same position Arsenal were in a couple of seasons ago, and need a complete (and I mean complete) squad rebuild. Arsenal are a couple of seasons into that and so are in a better position.

Arsenal's young signings this season are doing well and will hopefully either get better and keep playing or be sold on for more than was paid. Whereas which Man Utd players are increasing their price tag? Maybe Fernandes?
 
GoonerInPeace said:
Like I said, we are basically an under 23's team. This team is in its infancy and our first 11 is probably the youngest in Europe.

We are going to get better by virtue of our young players getting more experience and playing together.

Our current squad is at the beginning of a cycle, where as United team isnt young, infact most of your players are veterans or players who should be in their prime.

Why is peak United a head lengh behind Arsenal under 23's?
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And for how long this infancy period you are willing to accept? Do you think you will get top 4 next season for sure? And will Saka or ESR stay if there's no europe next season?
It sounds like your assumption is based on your squad staying together for next few seasons to get matured but will they have that much patience and faith in Arteta?
 
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