The Centre Midfield Ranking

[Revan]

I would like to hear some opinions why most people consider Iniesta, Xavi best midfielders? I know football is not just about numbers but their usual seasons were something like 3,4 goals and a couple more assists. They were amazing in short passes but that's about it .

For example Lampard had 7 seasons in a row with 20+ goals and 10+ assists and is best midfielder goalscorer in the history of football. Besides that he used to take all set pieces, was great in long passes , scored a lot of goals from out of the box, with header ... In defence also good . Everything they lack of. So for my he had everything and wouldn't trade him for any other midfielder out there.

He had 30 assists in a season and he reached 6-14 goals per season in all seasons he was at his peak, bar 2010-2011.

But that is not important. The main reason why people rate them as the best midfielders is cause they watched them play instead of going into their Wikipedia's articles. Barcelona dominated other teams more than any club in the history of football, to the point that every other club, be it Real, United, Chelsea, Milan, Inter and so on, had to just park the bus and counter them. Going toe to toe with them and trying to outplay them was a path to madness as Fergie found out in 2011 and Mourinho found out on his first match as a Madrid coach. It was just literally impossible to outplay that team, and regardless of what you put in midfield, they were going to monopolize the ball and force you to play defensive football. Xavi was the main reason for that, he was constantly making 100+ passes with 92%+ accuracy, and those passes weren't with defenders. No surprise that when Xavi (not Messi) declined, so did Barca and they had to totally change their style of play. I think that Xavi might be the most intelligent player to have ever played the game. His ability to find the player with most space in a football match is unmatched. And it didn't matter against what team he played.

Iniesta is a bit different. He wasn't like Xavi at dictating them game (as brilliant as he was) but he had those big match moments, as you can well remember.

 

[B20]

I would like to hear some opinions why most people consider Iniesta, Xavi best midfielders? I know football is not just about numbers but their usual seasons were something like 3,4 goals and a couple more assists. They were amazing in short passes but that's about it .

For example Lampard had 7 seasons in a row with 20+ goals and 10+ assists and is best midfielder goalscorer in the history of football. Besides that he used to take all set pieces, was great in long passes , scored a lot of goals from out of the box, with header ... In defence also good . Everything they lack of. So for my he had everything and wouldn't trade him for any other midfielder out there.

Xavi had something no other midfielder has ever come close to duplicating - For the better part of five years, he would dominate the midfield in every single game he played. Every single game. You have world class midfielders and alltime greats who would dominate most, but all games? Basically, to have Xavi in your team was a 100% guarantee that the midfield was ceded to your team. And he basically never made a mistake. Couldn't even be forced into making a less than optimal pass. Probably the most press resistant midfielder of all time.

There are players with similar attributes and even midfielders with more ability - But none who took it to the level of genuine perfection of his craft as xavi did.

No one has dominated midfield the way Xavi did.

 

[mancan92]

Xavi had something no other midfielder has ever come close to duplicating - For the better part of five years, he would dominate the midfield in every single game he played. Every single game. You have world class midfielders and alltime greats who would dominate most, but all games? Basically, to have Xavi in your team was a 100% guarantee that the midfield was ceded to your team. And he basically never made a mistake. Couldn't even be forced into making a less than optimal pass. Probably the most press resistant midfielder of all time.

There are players with similar attributes and even midfielders with more ability - But none who took it to the level of genuine perfection of his craft as xavi did.

No one has dominated midfield the way Xavi did.

Couldn’t have said it better

 

[Gio]

20 years is a tricky cut off, coming slap bang in the middle of the heyday of a great generation of CMs’ careers. But will include them regardless in the following tiers:

Xavi

Davids
Keane
Redondo
Vieira

Pirlo
Modric
Scholes
Schweinsteiger
Veron

Vidal
Seedorf
Alonso
Baraja
Essien
Effenberg
Kroos
Cocu

 

[Stacks]

He had 30 assists in a season and he reached 6-14 goals per season in all seasons he was at his peak, bar 2010-2011.

But that is not important. The main reason why people rate them as the best midfielders is cause they watched them play instead of going into their Wikipedia's articles. Barcelona dominated other teams more than any club in the history of football, to the point that every other club, be it Real, United, Chelsea, Milan, Inter and so on, had to just park the bus and counter them. Going toe to toe with them and trying to outplay them was a path to madness as Fergie found out in 2011 and Mourinho found out on his first match as a Madrid coach. It was just literally impossible to outplay that team, and regardless of what you put in midfield, they were going to monopolize the ball and force you to play defensive football. Xavi was the main reason for that, he was constantly making 100+ passes with 92%+ accuracy, and those passes weren't with defenders. No surprise that when Xavi (not Messi) declined, so did Barca and they had to totally change their style of play. I think that Xavi might be the most intelligent player to have ever played the game. His ability to find the player with most space in a football match is unmatched. And it didn't matter against what team he played.

Iniesta is a bit different. He wasn't like Xavi at dictating them game (as brilliant as he was) but he had those big match moments, as you can well remember.

Pretty much. One thing that goes against Xavi in the "30 assists" is that he can just pass the ball to Messi, he can take on 2 players and spank it into the top corner = assist

Xavi had something no other midfielder has ever come close to duplicating - For the better part of five years, he would dominate the midfield in every single game he played. Every single game. You have world class midfielders and alltime greats who would dominate most, but all games? Basically, to have Xavi in your team was a 100% guarantee that the midfield was ceded to your team. And he basically never made a mistake. Couldn't even be forced into making a less than optimal pass. Probably the most press resistant midfielder of all time.

There are players with similar attributes and even midfielders with more ability - But none who took it to the level of genuine perfection of his craft as xavi did.

No one has dominated midfield the way Xavi did.

Absolutely. It was scary playing them.

 

[Joga Bonito]

20 years is a tricky cut off, coming slap bang in the middle of the heyday of a great generation of CMs’ careers. But will include them regardless in the following tiers:

Xavi

Davids
Keane
Redondo
Vieira

Pirlo
Modric
Scholes
Schweinsteiger
Veron

Vidal
Seedorf
Alonso
Baraja
Essien
Effenberg
Kroos
Cocu

Agreed with this by and large, Ballack probably deserves to be included in the 2nd tier and I'd personally swap Schweinsteiger and Vieira's places myself and include Gerrard and Deco in the 3rd tier.

 

[Gio]

20 years is a tricky cut off, coming slap bang in the middle of the heyday of a great generation of CMs’ careers. But will include them regardless

Xavi

Davids
Keane
Redondo
Vieira

Pirlo
Modric
Scholes
Schweinsteiger
Alonso

Vidal
Essien
Baraja
Seedorf
Cocu

Agreed with this by and large, Ballack probably deserves to be included in the 2nd tier and I'd personally swap Schweinsteiger and Vieira's places myself and include Gerrard and Deco in the 3rd tier.

Yeah I’d kept those 3 out on the basis they were more attack-minded CMs, but the boundaries are a bit woolly.

 

[Revan]

20 years is a tricky cut off, coming slap bang in the middle of the heyday of a great generation of CMs’ careers. But will include them regardless in the following tiers:

Xavi

Davids
Keane
Redondo
Vieira

Pirlo
Modric
Scholes
Schweinsteiger
Veron

Vidal
Seedorf
Alonso
Baraja
Essien
Effenberg
Kroos
Cocu

This is a very good list. Would swap Pirlo with Vieira and that's it.

 

[Gio]

@Revan @Joga Bonito Yeah I knew Vieira would get a bit of comeback as consensus on here would have him a notch below where I place him.

 

[Theon]

20 years is a tricky cut off, coming slap bang in the middle of the heyday of a great generation of CMs’ careers. But will include them regardless in the following tiers:

Xavi

Davids
Keane
Redondo
Vieira

Pirlo
Modric
Scholes
Schweinsteiger
Veron

Vidal
Seedorf
Alonso
Baraja
Essien
Effenberg
Kroos
Cocu

Nice job. I’d swap Pirlo and Vieira - think the former definitely sits in that top tier.

Then I’d maybe break up the third tier some more, looking at Alonso’s career in its entirety he should be in a higher tier to players like Cocu and Baraja.

Edit - @Revan beat me to it

 

[Revan]

@Revan @Joga Bonito Yeah I knew Vieira would get a bit of comeback as consensus on here would have him a notch below where I place him.

More like I rate Pirlo insanely high.

Also, not sure about Keano above Redondo. My judgement might be a bit clouded from that game, but Redondo made our midfielders look like schoolboys. It wasn't even fair, he was so much better.

Redondo would be my pick for that position. Keano, Davids and Vieira can be put in any order IMO.

 

[Stacks]

I feel Davids is being slightly overrated here.

 

[Gio]

@Revan @Theon Aye you're right on Pirlo, he's a tier too low.

More like I rate Pirlo insanely high.

Also, not sure about Keano above Redondo. My judgement might be a bit clouded from that game, but Redondo made our midfielders look like schoolboys. It wasn't even fair, he was so much better.

Redondo would be my pick for that position. Keano, Davids and Vieira can be put in any order IMO.

True on that game. Where I think Redondo falls a little short, is his portfolio of top level performances. The truncuated international career isn't necessarily his fault, but it does limit what we can use to judge him on. And while he was good in 1994, he didn't excel and his mobility was a problem when Hagi's Romania ran over the top of them. Clearly his level at Real Madrid was top notch and he can call upon a range of definitive performances to point to his evident quality. Can easily put him in the top of that tier depending on your preferences.

 

[RedCurry]

Just pure ability, without any consideration to trophies:

1. Xavi
2. Scholes
3. Pirlo
4. Modric
5. Kroos
6. Carrick

 

[3KDré]

I think Lampard should be in some of these lists

 

[Revan]

I think Lampard should be in some of these lists

Most are not putting attacking midfielders in these lists. I have him fourth on attacking midfielders list after Zidane, Iniesta and Gerrard. Not much between him and Gerrard though.

 

[TheFlagStaysDown]

actually very surprised how many people put Pirlo over Scholes who is an clear upgrade on him at least when it comes to passing, while Pirlo have been top top bracket in short to mid range passing, Scholes could ping a 70 yard pass absolutely on a players foot. There is one thing Scholes was lacking a bit and that's dribbling but he never needed it he could easily bypass anyone in midfield by playing one two and run to the box for a header. Then we would also have to compare young Scholes and old Scholes but at 37 after retiring from football he was still the best midfielder in the league.

I think players like Pirlo and Xavi with all the vision and dictating play from the deep and through balls are great to watch but can only dream of the passing range and accuracy of Scholes for long passing which makes him more exciting and giving him the edge for me. Just check how many videos he's got on YT only on his (long) passing, all the other players all together don't have as many

 

[Revan]

actually very surprised how many people put Pirlo over Scholes who is an clear upgrade on him at least when it comes to passing, while Pirlo have been top top bracket in short to mid range passing, Scholes could ping a 70 yard pass absolutely on a players foot. There is one thing Scholes was lacking a bit and that's dribbling but he never needed it he could easily bypass anyone in midfield by playing one two and run to the box for a header. Then we would also have to compare young Scholes and old Scholes but at 37 after retiring from football he was still the best midfielder in the league.

I think players like Pirlo and Xavi with all the vision and dictating play from the deep and through balls are great to watch but can only dream of the passing range and accuracy of Scholes for long passing which makes him more exciting and giving him the edge for me. Just check how many videos he's got on YT only on his (long) passing, all the other players all together don't have as many

I don't think that anyone claimed here that Pirlo was better at long range passing than Scholes. Pirlo was brilliant at it, but Scholes might be the best long range passer of all time.

 

[Theon]

Most are not putting attacking midfielders in these lists. I have him fourth on attacking midfielders list after Zidane, Iniesta and Gerrard. Not much between him and Gerrard though.

Lampard was a central midfielder IMO in a pretty clear Chelsea 4-3-3.

If it’s attacking midfielders wouldn’t have him anywhere near a top five from the last 20 years. Players like Rui Costa, Kaka and Totti have been missed of your list and were all much more effective #10s

 

[Revan]

Lampard was a central midfielder IMO in a pretty clear Chelsea 4-3-3.

If it’s attacking midfielders wouldn’t have him anywhere near a top five from the last 20 years. Players like Rui Costa, Kaka and Totti have been missed of your list and were all much more effective #10s

Kaka and Totti are pretty much second strikers IMO. Of course it is a bit difficult to separate attacking midfielders from No. 10 especially considering that in each team there is one of those roles, but not both. I actually was planning to make a thread on it. How do you define a No. 10 (Totti, Di Baggio, Shevchenko, Rooney, Kaka) compared to an attacking midfielder like Zidane, Riquelme, Lampard etc.

 

[Theon]

Kaka and Totti are pretty much second strikers IMO. Of course it is a bit difficult to separate attacking midfielders from No. 10 especially considering that in each team there is one of those roles, but not both. I actually was planning to make a thread on it. How do you define a No. 10 (Totti, Di Baggio, Shevchenko, Rooney, Kaka) compared to an attacking midfielder like Zidane, Riquelme, Lampard etc.

Again I wouldn’t have Lampard in that bracket, he was a completely different player to Riquelme and Zidane. Not just in terms of style but also the positions he took up on the pitch. Lampard was a central midfielder with a tendency for attacking, as opposed to an attacking midfielder. The distinction being that Lampard was part of a rigid 4-3-3 set up who contributed heavily in both the defensive and offensive phase. When Lampard attacked, he did so from deep and it was generally off the ball runs from midfield which led him to score so many goals.

Of your list I’d say Shevchenko and Rooney were second strikers, Del Piero would fall under that category and Totti could play that role.

Equally though I’d say Totti could be lumped in with Zidane, Kaka and Riquelme who I would class as #10s / attacking midfielders. When Roma won the Scudetto it was Totti in that deeper role, as an AM behind two strikers from recollection.

With regards your question I think we can make a pretty clear distinction between Shevchenko (second striker) and Kaka (attacking midfielder) based on their time in Milan. Shevchenko was definitely a roaming forward but I’d still say there was a clear difference in the typical positions that they took up (with Kaka playing and breaking forward from deeper).

 

[TheFlagStaysDown]

I don't think that anyone claimed here that Pirlo was better at long range passing than Scholes. Pirlo was brilliant at it, but Scholes might be the best long range passer of all time.

What I meant by my post is that, Scholes could do all kinds of passes Pirlo did, control the game, never los the possession keep his team in possession, creat chances etc. but on top of that he could do these passes which Xavi and Pirlo couldn't do or were not doing, he had simply rocket in his foot that he could stretch the play and find a player anywhere on the pitch which makes him a superior passer. Don't think we need to argue about the goal input either Scholes without scoring any penalties (think he scored two in his life) is one of our best goalscorers, his long range efforts are legendary, non of the players could hit the ball with such power. I don't like comparisons with Lampard who is clearly a level below, who was a great goalscorer but mostly played advanced anyway and scored shitload of penalties. I mean you could only argue about his dribbling but none of the mentioned players were going past players with ease. That player would be Iniesta but he's a different cathegory midfielder. And Scholes had great feet but usually played it simple and seen the pass before really starting to dribble anyways

long range passing



also never seen anyone being quoted by some absolute legends as the best midfielder of his generation etc. all players


Pirlo was a great playmaker who could take a good freekick but for freekicks we had Beckham anyway so for me he is a level below because Scholes has been simply the best central midfielder past 50 years

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

20 years is a tricky cut off, coming slap bang in the middle of the heyday of a great generation of CMs’ careers. But will include them regardless in the following tiers:

Xavi

Davids
Keane
Redondo
Vieira

Pirlo
Modric
Scholes
Schweinsteiger
Veron

Vidal
Seedorf
Alonso
Baraja
Essien
Effenberg
Kroos
Cocu

Nice list. Glad to see you included Ruben Baraja who was one of my favorite players and in general one of the more underrated players of my lifetime. Cocu too was superb and didn't get the praise he deserved.

 

[BocaJuniors]

Not may mentions of for Sneijder.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Not may mentions of for Sneijder.

He was a #10. And I gave reasons why in the Modric thread but, personally I think Sneijder is most overrated player of his generation by far. He was great for two seasons and spent the rest of his career living off those two seasons.

 

[Stacks]

actually very surprised how many people put Pirlo over Scholes who is an clear upgrade on him at least when it comes to passing, while Pirlo have been top top bracket in short to mid range passing, Scholes could ping a 70 yard pass absolutely on a players foot. There is one thing Scholes was lacking a bit and that's dribbling but he never needed it he could easily bypass anyone in midfield by playing one two and run to the box for a header. Then we would also have to compare young Scholes and old Scholes but at 37 after retiring from football he was still the best midfielder in the league.

I think players like Pirlo and Xavi with all the vision and dictating play from the deep and through balls are great to watch but can only dream of the passing range and accuracy of Scholes for long passing which makes him more exciting and giving him the edge for me. Just check how many videos he's got on YT only on his (long) passing, all the other players all together don't have as many

Yaya Toure?

So Scholes is better than Xavi and Pirlo because he can play better long passes? How effective are his long passes over the course of every season? Pretty sure his long passes meant nowt when AC Milan and Barcelona comfortably beat us in Europe, in 2005/07, 2009. In fact they bossed us in many of those games. I would also like to point out that having Xavi in your team guarentees you dominate the midfield which is far more useful than a long ball or 2.

What I meant by my post is that, Scholes could do all kinds of passes Pirlo did, control the game, never los the possession keep his team in possession, creat chances etc. but on top of that he could do these passes which Xavi and Pirlo couldn't do or were not doing, he had simply rocket in his foot that he could stretch the play and find a player anywhere on the pitch which makes him a superior passer. Don't think we need to argue about the goal input either Scholes without scoring any penalties (think he scored two in his life) is one of our best goalscorers, his long range efforts are legendary, non of the players could hit the ball with such power. I don't like comparisons with Lampard who is clearly a level below, who was a great goalscorer but mostly played advanced anyway and scored shitload of penalties. I mean you could only argue about his dribbling but none of the mentioned players were going past players with ease. That player would be Iniesta but he's a different cathegory midfielder. And Scholes had great feet but usually played it simple and seen the pass before really starting to dribble anyways

long range passing



also never seen anyone being quoted by some absolute legends as the best midfielder of his generation etc. all players


Pirlo was a great playmaker who could take a good freekick but for freekicks we had Beckham anyway so for me he is a level below because Scholes has been simply the best central midfielder past 50 years

The Myth of Scholes strikes again.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

A lot of Scholes' beautiful long passes ended up on the wing. The long passes of Pirlo and Xabi Alonso were more likely to end up on a striker's foot.

 

[Zehner]

If we include Modric on this list, we also have to include Iniesta since they effectively play the same role for their clubs. Besides that, the respective period is pretty long if we want to include both Modric and Scholes. You'd at least include the last 15 years and since football has changed tremendously in this time frame, rating gets difficult. In all honesty, I don't know where to put players like Seedorf, Davids, Deco, Vieira, Veron etc. since they were different player types and I also can't remember how good they were from 2003 onwards. Was also quite young back then and didn't really understood how important players like Xavi etc. were. So I basically made a list of more recent CMs and looked where I'd place Scholes in there.

However, my list:

1. Iniesta
2. Xavi
3. Modric
4. Kroos
5. Pirlo
6. Scholes
7. Busquets
8. Schweinsteiger
9. Alonso
10. Don't really know, De Rossi maybe? Or Yaya? Vidal? Rakitic? Motta? Basically a whole bunch of players on approximately the same level.

 

[Stacks]

Nice job. I’d swap Pirlo and Vieira - think the former definitely sits in that top tier.

Then I’d maybe break up the third tier some more, looking at Alonso’s career in its entirety he should be in a higher tier to players like Cocu and Baraja.

Edit - @Revan beat me to it

Baraja is a good shout. Didn't Mendieta play CM often as well? Deco has been slept on in here I feel. Davids has been included but he is even less decorated than Deco. How is Cocu making lists ahead of Deco? lol

Is it nostalgia or have people forgot Deco was the best player in the Champions League winning team of 2004, one of the best in a great Barcelona side

 

[Andy_Cole]

No Michael Ballack?

 

[Gio]

Baraja is a good shout. Didn't Mendieta play CM often as well? Deco has been slept on in here I feel. Davids has been included but he is even less decorated than Deco. How is Cocu making lists ahead of Deco? lol

Is it nostalgia or have people forgot Deco was the best player in the Champions League winning team of 2004, one of the best in a great Barcelona side

I left Deco, Ballack and Mendieta out for the same positional reason that Iniesta, Gerrard, Lampard, Zidane, etc weren't included.

 

[TheFlagStaysDown]

Yaya Toure?

So Scholes is better than Xavi and Pirlo because he can play better long passes? How effective are his long passes over the course of every season? Pretty sure his long passes meant nowt when AC Milan and Barcelona comfortably beat us in Europe, in 2005/07, 2009. In fact they bossed us in many of those games. I would also like to point out that having Xavi in your team guarentees you dominate the midfield which is far more useful than a long ball or 2.


The Myth of Scholes strikes again.

you should consider the quality of the whole team... messi - iniesta - xavi wtih busquets as a DM is probably one of the best teeams ever, while we had great player but not the very top in fletcher or carrick, the system and tteam was perfect in barcelona... we are talking baout individual players and Scholes had everything, and for me he would be the best but if you wanna deny that or have a different opinion okay. I mentioned long range passing as one of the abilities between the players which the rest was lacking on him. but long range shooting goalscoring would be another one. getting stuck also, the aggression is underrated, for sure people will remember scholes as a bad tackler but yeah he won a lot of balls too, wasn't just a creative one...

just check all Xavi, Zidane, Figo, Guardiola, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, our Ronaldo, Pele, Iniesta, Henry and many more legends praising scholes and naming him the best midfielder of their generation, that with combination of what I saw makes me thing the highest of him

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

How many of them can play in a midfield two, though? Amirite .

This has been the era of midfield, much like the era just before was heavily defensive where we saw some really great defenders e.g. Rio, Terry, Nesta, Cannavaro etc. We see teams lining up with 3+ center mids in most league matches and most international squads. They work tirelessly to hold possession and create chances for their one or two class forwards (Messi/Ronaldo etc.).

The early signs are that tika-taka and midfield dominance is not the be-all and end-all anymore (see Leicester, Spain early eliminations etc.) and that we might be coming into another era for the forwards. Even City, under Pep fling it forward now and again and overload the box with forwards.

 

[Revan]

How many of them can play in a midfield two, though? Amirite .

This has been the era of midfield, much like the era just before was heavily defensive where we saw some really great defenders e.g. Rio, Terry, Nesta, Cannavaro etc. We see teams lining up with 3+ center mids in most league matches and most international squads. They work tirelessly to hold possession and create chances for their one or two class forwards (Messi/Ronaldo etc.).

The early signs are that tika-taka and midfield dominance is not the be-all and end-all anymore (see Leicester, Spain early eliminations etc.) and that we might be coming into another era for the forwards. Even City, under Pep fling it forward now and again and overload the box with forwards.

We have been in that era pretty much since Pep left Barca. Teams with the best attack win nowadays.

 

[Zehner]

We have been in that era pretty much since Pep left Barca. Teams with the best attack win nowadays.

Nah. Real Madrid and Bayern had the best CMs in the world during their CL wins, Germany also had a superb midfield while being quite underwhelming in attack. That's no coincidence. The basis of Pep's city is their midfield play with David Silva and De Bruyne being their most important players. Croatia reached the WC final due to their world class midfield while playing Rebic, Mandzukic and Perisic up front - not bad but hardly elite.

I agree that the game changes quickly at the moment and teams rely much more on great strikers in the box, set pieces, long shots etc. but the CM still seems decisive when a great team meets another great team. Argentina arguably has the best attack in the world but since their midfield and defense were underwhelming, they didn't stand a chance.

I also believe Spain and Germany would've done much better against strong opponents. It is primarily when a team parks the bus that strikers become the most important players.
I'd say currently it is about beating weak teams who surrender the midfield anyway in the box while even matches are won through dominating the center.

 

[Ajax Treesdown]

Michael Carrick will be remembered as one of the greats in some time

I remember him constantly getting massive flack from the fans, more so than most players. Funny how now opinion has changed in recent years and he is now a great. Fans are so fickle.

 

[Ed9]

1. Scholes

The rest