Books The BOOK thread

entropy said:
That was precisely his problem. He was good at plot and terrible at everything else. Which is why his book was rejected multiple times. It was only until Perkins took him under his wing and walked him through lots of changes(often with Maxwell forming the prose himself, explaining why grammatically it made sense) was his book accepted to be published. I think with Fitzgerald lot of the criticism stems from the fact that his editor did lot of leg work on his behalf and that he never wrote any book worth considering after the Great Gatsby.
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Loads of top books were initially rejected and many authors wrote one outstanding book their other work doesn't live up to.

Having variously edited magazines and websites, I know full well that what someone files and what ends up on page can be very different things. But let's face it, 99% of people enjoy a book for what it is, without caring about the editing process.

You should give it another go. I still hate the Tempest after being forced to read it at 13 or 14.
 
I’d never heard of the editing issue around Gatsby but, wherever the ultimate credit lies, it’s an outstanding novel and one of the best in English of the 20th century.

Anyway, onto “Nostromo” by Joseph Conrad. For a book written in the first decade of the 20th century, it is still relevant in its depiction of the corrupting effect of wealth and the fatuousness of politics. 8/10.
 
MoskvaRed said:
I’d never heard of the editing issue around Gatsby but, wherever the ultimate credit lies, it’s an outstanding novel and one of the best in English of the 20th century.

Anyway, onto “Nostromo” by Joseph Conrad. For a book written in the first decade of the 20th century, it is still relevant in its depiction of the corrupting effect of wealth and the fatuousness of politics. 8/10.
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Ooo yes I loved Nostromo. Fantastic book!

Couldn't tell you anything about it now - except for a somewhat broad memory of the fictional south american state where it's set - but I remember finding it engrossing :)
 
Jippy said:
Loads of top books were initially rejected and many authors wrote one outstanding book their other work doesn't live up to.

Having variously edited magazines and websites, I know full well that what someone files and what ends up on page can be very different things. But let's face it, 99% of people enjoy a book for what it is, without caring about the editing process.

You should give it another go. I still hate the Tempest after being forced to read it at 13 or 14.
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MoskvaRed said:
I’d never heard of the editing issue around Gatsby but, wherever the ultimate credit lies, it’s an outstanding novel and one of the best in English of the 20th century.
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I highly recommend reading the correspondence between Fitzgerald and Maxwell Perkins while he wrote The Great Gatsby(titled The Romantic Egoist at the time)
 
Dune has escaped me all my life. I used to be an avid Star Wars fan, but this makes SW look like a pimpled teenager. Reading all the books now, and man! The intrigue and the depth is something else. A life changer!
 
Vidyoyo said:
Has anybody else read 1Q84? I'm not the biggest fan of Murakami - I like some, don't like others - but this book has failed to capture me 250 pages in. Wondering if it's worth persisting?
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"It's hard to believe that some of the critics praising 1Q84 didn't really feel, at times, like throwing the book in the air and walking away. Trying to say anything definite about it is like trying to nail Jell-O to a wall." - The Atlantic

I haven't read it, but it sounds like a waste of time. Now, 1984. That's another story.
 
I don't think you have to persist if you didn't like the beginning. It is a slow book with some shocking, weird moments. Even if I read the last book faster (in some countries, they also sold it as 3 books as in Japan) and I usually like the writing like when the author shows us Tengo cooking even if it is irrelevant to the plot.
 
Shakesey said:
"It's hard to believe that some of the critics praising 1Q84 didn't really feel, at times, like throwing the book in the air and walking away. Trying to say anything definite about it is like trying to nail Jell-O to a wall." - The Atlantic

I haven't read it, but it sounds like a waste of time. Now, 1984. That's another story.
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That's what I've heard, lots of mixed opinions. I've read all the main Murakami books but left this one 'til last because I wasn't sure if it was worth the bother.

celia said:
I don't think you have to persist if you didn't like the beginning. It is a slow book with some shocking, weird moments. Even if I read the last book faster (in some countries, they also sold it as 3 books as in Japan) and I usually like the writing like when the author shows us Tengo cooking even if it is irrelevant to the plot.
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Cheers. I'll stick with it then, at least until those shocking moments because I'm intrigued now :)

Your last point sums up my feelings in a way because Murakami's writing is very slow here, much more than his other novels and I can't say there's much by way of set-up or intrigue that's compelling me to pick it up each evening. Admittedly it's a much longer book than his others so perhaps he's just chosen to take his time more.

I am certainly interested to learn more about the story behind Air Chrysalis.
 
Shakesey said:
Dune has escaped me all my life. I used to be an avid Star Wars fan, but this makes SW look like a pimpled teenager. Reading all the books now, and man! The intrigue and the depth is something else. A life changer!
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I finished Dune yesterday. You can certainly tell how much it's influenced many that came after it.

I'll probably pick up the sequels eventually but started Hard-boiled Wonderland and The End of the World yesterday. It feels like you're reading someone's fever dream.
 
Vidyoyo said:
Has anybody else read 1Q84? I'm not the biggest fan of Murakami - I like some, don't like others - but this book has failed to capture me 250 pages in. Wondering if it's worth persisting?
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Just started Hard-boiled Wonderland yesterday. My first Murakami novel but I'm loving it. I'll probably pick a few of his other works when I finish it.

I'll probably leave 1Q84 if you don't think it's worth it
 
ChrisNelson said:
Any John Grisham fans on here?

His new book The Judge's List came out last week, it's fantastic.

I love a good legal thriller and he's the master of the craft for me, also like Sheldon Siegel and John Lescroart.

It's a follow on from The Whistler, with the character Lacy Stoltz.

I'd welcome any recommendations of similar writers who I may have missed.
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I've read so many of his books but none in the last 10 years. Wonder if it'll be the same now. Love legal thrillers, so keen to give it a try.
 
Eleven-Eighteen said:
I've read so many of his books but none in the last 10 years. Wonder if it'll be the same now. Love legal thrillers, so keen to give it a try.
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All of his recent releases are as good as the old ones, in my opinion.

Sooley was a bit of a departure from his normal route but still a great story and very engaging.

Make sure you've read The Whistler before you read The Judge's List!
 
b82REZ said:
Just started Hard-boiled Wonderland yesterday. My first Murakami novel but I'm loving it. I'll probably pick a few of his other works when I finish it.

I'll probably leave 1Q84 if you don't think it's worth it
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How's it going? I just finished my first Murakami the other day- Hear the Wind Sing, his first novel. It's only c100 pages.
It's more slice of life with nothing much happening than anything deeper, but readable enough.

Reading Ian McEwan's Saturday now and finding it a bit po-faced and hand-wringing.
 
Jippy said:
How's it going? I just finished my first Murakami the other day- Hear the Wind Sing, his first novel. It's only c100 pages.
It's more slice of life with nothing much happening than anything deeper, but readable enough.

Reading Ian McEwan's Saturday now and finding it a bit po-faced and hand-wringing.
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It's such a unique book. It's alternating stories, one a dystopian story written like a hardboiled detective novel, the other a dreamlike fantasy story. The two are starting to converge now though.

I'm absolutely loving it so far. I'd imagine I'll finish it in the next day or two. I've ordered Norwegian Wood because of how much I'm enjoying Wonderland. I have heard his stories can be a bit samey though so may hold off getting his full catalogue of work for now.
 
Which version of King's Stand do you reckon is better original or uncut?
 
Suv666 said:
Which version of King's Stand do you reckon is better original or uncut?
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I've only read the uncut version and I thought it was excellent...which brings me neatly onto...


The Shining by Stephen King

This book is excellent. There's a few big differences from the original novel to what we saw in Kubrick's movie (itself an excellent firm, and an interesting interpretation of the book). I never realised that the book doesn't actually have some of the iconic moments from the movie. But what it does have is that slow descent into horror, discomfort and terror. King is a master at making the innocuous seem genuinely frightening such as the hedge animals, and the firehose. We get a lot more insight into why Jack Torrance is the way he is, why Wendy is the way she is (also vastly different from the movie) and more insight into Danny and Dick's relationship.

All in all, a great book if someone wants to read a winter chiller.
 
The Corinthian said:
I've only read the uncut version and I thought it was excellent...which brings me neatly onto...


The Shining by Stephen King

This book is excellent. There's a few big differences from the original novel to what we saw in Kubrick's movie (itself an excellent firm, and an interesting interpretation of the book). I never realised that the book doesn't actually have some of the iconic moments from the movie. But what it does have is that slow descent into horror, discomfort and terror. King is a master at making the innocuous seem genuinely frightening such as the hedge animals, and the firehose. We get a lot more insight into why Jack Torrance is the way he is, why Wendy is the way she is (also vastly different from the movie) and more insight into Danny and Dick's relationship.

All in all, a great book if someone wants to read a winter chiller.
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Have you read Firestarter? It was the first King book I had and I loved the whole story of it. One of the last ones I remember that had an acceptable ending too.
 
The Cat said:
Have you read Firestarter? It was the first King book I had and I loved the whole story of it. One of the last ones I remember that had an acceptable ending too.
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No I haven't - I will definitely check it out though. I was thinking of going onto Doctor Sleep next to finish of Danny's story, (and then Carrie).
 
b82REZ said:
It's such a unique book. It's alternating stories, one a dystopian story written like a hardboiled detective novel, the other a dreamlike fantasy story. The two are starting to converge now though.

I'm absolutely loving it so far. I'd imagine I'll finish it in the next day or two. I've ordered Norwegian Wood because of how much I'm enjoying Wonderland. I have heard his stories can be a bit samey though so may hold off getting his full catalogue of work for now.
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That sounds interesting and unique too. I'll add that to the list. I've just started Pinball, his second and very short, novel. I picked up Kafka on the Shore too- that's really long.
 
Jippy said:
That sounds interesting and unique too. I'll add that to the list. I've just started Pinball, his second and very short, novel. I picked up Kafka on the Shore too- that's really long.
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I've been reading like a mad man recently. Finished Wonderland, really enjoyable. Blasted through Brave New World in a couple of afternoons and I started Norwegian Wood last night.

Ordered a Kafka collection today so will probably give that a go when I finish Norwegian Wood.
 
b82REZ said:
I've been reading like a mad man recently. Finished Wonderland, really enjoyable. Blasted through Brave New World in a couple of afternoons and I started Norwegian Wood last night.

Ordered a Kafka collection today so will probably give that a go when I finish Norwegian Wood.
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Nice going. I read Brave New World years ago and vaguely recollect being slightly underwhelmed.
I ordered seven books a week or so ago but they're still rattling along on a flatbed truck in Malaysia apparently.
 
Jippy said:
Nice going. I read Brave New World years ago and vaguely recollect being slightly underwhelmed.
I ordered seven books a week or so ago but they're still rattling along on a flatbed truck in Malaysia apparently.
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I really enjoyed Brave New World, but I'm a sucker for a dystopian novel.

I'm currently in the process of attempting my first novel after years of saying I'd do it. Still in the very early stages though.
 
Does anybody else read far less in winter? I've got two books on the go and haven't cracked them open in weeks. I seem to do this every year - Summer is great because I can go to the park

b82REZ said:
I've been reading like a mad man recently. Finished Wonderland, really enjoyable. Blasted through Brave New World in a couple of afternoons and I started Norwegian Wood last night.

Ordered a Kafka collection today so will probably give that a go when I finish Norwegian Wood.
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If you're looking for more Murakami afterwards then I highly recommend The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle. I think it's his best book.
 
Just finished Joe Bonanno’s autobiography Man of Honor. Really frustrating and kind of boring read considering the life he had, he whitewashes the mob entirely and doesn’t go into any interesting details that wouldn’t already be public knowledge. And his denials of involvement in any of the uglier aspects of that life (“my Tradition” he calls it) are frequently absurd.

And it’s a double shame because for someone from that world, he was clearly intelligent, articulate, and educated, so a proper honest account would have been all the more fascinating.
 
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b82REZ said:
I really enjoyed Brave New World, but I'm a sucker for a dystopian novel.

I'm currently in the process of attempting my first novel after years of saying I'd do it. Still in the very early stages though.
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Oh wow good luck. You have the plot and everything?
Hell of a challenge weaving a plot together over 400 pages or whatever. I can faff around enough writIng and structuring an 800 word feature.
 
Vidyoyo said:
Does anybody else read far less in winter? I've got two books on the go and haven't cracked them open in weeks. I seem to do this every year - Summer is great because I can go to the park



If you're looking for more Murakami afterwards then I highly recommend The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle. I think it's his best book.
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That's next on my list. Sounds like something I'd really enjoy.

Jippy said:
Oh wow good luck. You have the plot and everything?
Hell of a challenge weaving a plot together over 400 pages or whatever. I can faff around enough writIng and structuring an 800 word feature.
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I have an idea what I want to do but I've never been one to plan things down to the minute details and I like to adapt and change plots on the fly.

I read a tip about never editing your first draft, leave it, warts and all and focus on getting your ideas down and then use subsequent drafts to tidy it up and make it more cohesive.

When I've tried to write in the past I've always got bogged down in trying to make my first draft amazing and get lost in needless editing.

This new way is working for me but my schedule has become a bit fecked due to work. I'm hoping to really get into it again over Xmas.
 
b82REZ said:
I'm currently in the process of attempting my first novel after years of saying I'd do it. Still in the very early stages though.
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b82REZ said:
I have an idea what I want to do but I've never been one to plan things down to the minute details and I like to adapt and change plots on the fly.

I read a tip about never editing your first draft, leave it, warts and all and focus on getting your ideas down and then use subsequent drafts to tidy it up and make it more cohesive.

When I've tried to write in the past I've always got bogged down in trying to make my first draft amazing and get lost in needless editing.

This new way is working for me but my schedule has become a bit fecked due to work. I'm hoping to really get into it again over Xmas.
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That’s amazing! Best of luck.

I’m actually in this boat myself - it’s been one of my ambitions to just write a novel. Not necessarily taking it to publish but just because I’ve always wanted to. I’m planning on using the Xmas time to smash it out.

Let me know if you need someone to bounce ideas off or proof read - would be happy to help, and can bounce my own ideas off you too.
 
The Corinthian said:
That’s amazing! Best of luck.

I’m actually in this boat myself - it’s been one of my ambitions to just write a novel. Not necessarily taking it to publish but just because I’ve always wanted to. I’m planning on using the Xmas time to smash it out.

Let me know if you need someone to bounce ideas off or proof read - would be happy to help, and can bounce my own ideas off you too.
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That sounds like a good idea.

Writing is daunting and I think having someone to talk to throughout would be a huge help.

Send me a PM sometime
 
Can anyone recommend a good book about sexuality, gender and all that stuff?
 
Vidyoyo said:
What kind of book? The first one that springs to mind is Gender Trouble by Judith Butler but I don't know if that's the sort you're after
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Judith Butler is way too academic for me. I had a pop science sort of book in mind.
 
I feel like reading a non-fiction political book and considered Woodward's book on Trump, but would love a recommendation.
 
@Suv666 Possibly this? It's a neuroscience book - https://www.waterstones.com/book/the-gendered-brain/gina-rippon/9781784706814

On a daily basis we face deeply ingrained beliefs that our sex determines our skills and preferences, from toys and colours to career choice and salaries. But what does this mean for our thoughts, decisions and behaviour? Using the latest cutting-edge neuroscience, Gina Rippon unpacks the stereotypes that bombard us from our earliest moments and shows how these messages mould our ideas of ourselves and even shape our brains.

Sounds like it's generally about gender and the brain, not females exclusively.
 
Vidyoyo said:
@Suv666 Possibly this? It's a neuroscience book - https://www.waterstones.com/book/the-gendered-brain/gina-rippon/9781784706814

On a daily basis we face deeply ingrained beliefs that our sex determines our skills and preferences, from toys and colours to career choice and salaries. But what does this mean for our thoughts, decisions and behaviour? Using the latest cutting-edge neuroscience, Gina Rippon unpacks the stereotypes that bombard us from our earliest moments and shows how these messages mould our ideas of ourselves and even shape our brains.

Sounds like it's generally about gender and the brain, not females exclusively.
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Thanks this looks interesting. Definitely the sort I was after.
 
b82REZ said:
I have an idea what I want to do but I've never been one to plan things down to the minute details and I like to adapt and change plots on the fly.

I read a tip about never editing your first draft, leave it, warts and all and focus on getting your ideas down and then use subsequent drafts to tidy it up and make it more cohesive.

When I've tried to write in the past I've always got bogged down in trying to make my first draft amazing and get lost in needless editing.

This new way is working for me but my schedule has become a bit fecked due to work. I'm hoping to really get into it again over Xmas.
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Best of luck with it. I find it hard not to edit as I go along so would struggle to try and just get out one initial pure flow.

One of the things that I find daunting about even attempting to write a long fiction piece is the near-inevitable major plot twists you might come up with along the way. Having to go back and restructure it all to ensure continuity sounds a massive pain. I guess that must be how Poe forgot about the dog in Arthur Gordon Pym.
 
Just started A Memory called Empire by Arkady Martine. Glowing Reviews and I am ready for some epic Sci Fi so here we go.
 
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