The Biden Presidency

The Firestarter said:
Do you really expect Biden to say in this very moment "I will investigate and lock him up" ? Federal charges were always a moot point, since Trump can pardon himself. Its the state AG's that can really do something.
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He could have just said he'd leave it completely to the Justice Department to determine any investigations. That would have struck a neutral tone and allowed justice to be carried out. Instead he's taking a stand, the same stand Obama did with Bush, and it sends a horrible fecking message that justice doesn't apply to the powerful.
 
Kentonio said:
He could have just said he'd leave it completely to the Justice Department to determine any investigations. That would have struck a neutral tone and allowed justice to be carried out. Instead he's taking a stand, the same stand Obama did with Bush, and it sends a horrible fecking message that justice doesn't apply to the powerful.
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No, if he said that Fox will immediately say that means he will investigate since the JD reports to the president (not supposed to but effectively that in this administration). Also, any statement now doesnt prohibit any further action. In light of "new evidence", etc.
 
The Firestarter said:
No, if he said that Fox will immediately say that means he will investigate since the JD reports to the president (not supposed to but effectively that in this administration). Also, any statement now doesnt prohibit any further action. In light of "new evidence", etc.
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Who cares what FOX says? Are we in some alternate reality where Republicans are supposedly actually going to cooperate with the Democrats once the new administration begins?

A statement like the one he made might not technically prohibit action later, but it sends a strong message about his position. It was totally unnecessary unless he wanted to send exactly the message that he doesn't want investigation.
 
Kentonio said:
Who cares what FOX says? Are we in some alternate reality where Republicans are supposedly actually going to cooperate with the Democrats once the new administration begins?

A statement like the one he made might not technically prohibit action later, but it sends a strong message about his position. It was totally unnecessary unless he wanted to send exactly the message that he doesn't want investigation.
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Who cares what Fox says ? 70 million Trump voters, who apparently believe every word spouted there. A statement that Trump will be prosecuted (or possibility for that being explored) would greatly fan the conspiracy claims and increase the current tension significantly. The guy is not even sworn in FFS.
 
The Firestarter said:
Who cares what Fox says ? 70 million Trump voters, who apparently believe every word spouted there. A statement that Trump will be prosecuted (or possibility for that being explored) would greatly fan the conspiracy claims and increase the current tension significantly. The guy is not even sworn in FFS.
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In case you missed it, the FOX retards are ALREADY fired up as hell. The Democrats have to stop pretending that they can placate those people, its nonsense.
 
Kentonio said:
In case you missed it, the FOX retards are ALREADY fired up as hell. The Democrats have to stop pretending that they can placate those people, its nonsense.
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Its a case of not fanning a fire further, how is this so difficult to understand?
 
Kentonio said:
In case you missed it, the FOX retards are ALREADY fired up as hell. The Democrats have to stop pretending that they can placate those people, its nonsense.
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I agree with you but it has to be done subtly, a death by a thousand cuts. They should start with an audit on the tax payers dime being spent at his properties and sue to recoup as much as possible. Leave the criminal charges to NY.
I think it's going to come down to public pressure to force Biden, Pelosi and Schumer to do fecking anything at all. It should start with a commission headed by someone like Eric Swalwell to investigate everything because it's very obvious that the moral code to government in this country doesn't exist for one side. Laws need to be put in place so you can't hire your unqualified daughter to a prominent position just so you can watch her ass every time she leaves the room.
I want to see this cnut and everyone around him pulled through the ringer but if it comes down to a fight between two parties you know which one will drop first. Both of them are fecking pathetic and their leadership doesn't belong in this century.
Look at the props on the ballot in these red states, the Dems should be killing it yet they let the Republicans set the rules, manipulate the game and lie their ass off at every opportunity. Pelosi should be the first to go if she decides to play opossum. The next AG also needs to do the business otherwise these fecking assholes will be more emboldened like lady Lindsey asking another state to throw out Democrat ballots.
 
Kentonio said:
He could have just said he'd leave it completely to the Justice Department to determine any investigations. That would have struck a neutral tone and allowed justice to be carried out. Instead he's taking a stand, the same stand Obama did with Bush, and it sends a horrible fecking message that justice doesn't apply to the powerful.
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Is he taking a stand? He's saying (allegedly through 'sources') that he won't actively persue investigations, I dont' see it suggested he will actively get in the way of investigations either. Just seems to be the TYT interpretation.
 
golden_blunder said:
No, but since there were only 2 candidates then surely you take the lesser of 2 evils and hope for more progressive options in 4 years time
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If Biden doesn't run again then Harris will be the Dem pick(It's pretty much why she is now the VP). No Democratic will challenge this because of the lesser evil argument(Any criticism of the dem leadership will only help the "nazi" republicans) and more importantly Democratic party voters is now whiter and wealthier than in 2016.

Progressive politics and the Democratic party ended with Bernie failed 2nd campaign.
 
Sweet Square said:
If Biden doesn't run again then Harris will be the Dem pick(It's pretty much why she is now the VP). No Democratic will challenge this because of the lesser evil argument(Any criticism of the dem leadership will only help the "nazi" republicans) and more importantly Democratic party voters is now whiter and wealthier than in 2016.

Progressive politics and the Democratic party ended with Bernie failed 2nd campaign.
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I feel like its only really beginning tbh.
 
I understand whole picking Biden over Trump as lesser evil but lets not pretend like Biden fell from the sky, people voted for him vs other options to be in that position. So it would be funny if that bunch calls Trump supporters stupid.
 
golden_blunder said:
No, but since there were only 2 candidates then surely you take the lesser of 2 evils and hope for more progressive options in 4 years time
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Does politics only happen every 4 years?

Even the wildest bernie bro surely only wanted Biden in for the simple fact he's closer to their views and more likely to be swayed. That doesn't tie them to support Biden in any shape or form though, they'll criticise Biden and advance their causes just as the other side would have if Bernie won.

As always i think when a groups political party is in charge there's often a call for debate to stop because it's suddenly unfavourable. Most people aren't political and just want their party to do their best to fix whatever they can for them. That's not the case with the left and right they want societal change so they'll never go quiet.
 
R'hllor said:
I understand whole picking Biden over Trump as lesser evil but lets not pretend like Biden fell from the sky, people voted for him vs other options to be in that position. So it would be funny if that bunch calls Trump supporters stupid.
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Which one of those other options would have beaten trump?
 
Simbo said:
I feel like its only really beginning tbh.
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How so ?

Progressive have made some gains but it only looks good due to the complete lack of representation before hand.

Even someone like AOC who's been labelled as the next possibly progressive candidate for president

1)Isn't as left as someone like Bernie

2)Isn't actually that popular to the wider American public(At least according to polls). Bernie had great numbers in popularity and he lost badly.

3)She would face all the same barriers such as a "party" machine which is completely against any progressives politics, centre right/liberal media and voter base made up of rich white suburbanites and a old conservative southern black voters who for a number of reasons are against progressive politics.

How do you get past all of this within the next 10 years ?
 
The Firestarter said:
Do you really expect Biden to say in this very moment "I will investigate and lock him up" ? Federal charges were always a moot point, since Trump can pardon himself. Its the state AG's that can really do something.
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Biden can absolutely create an Ethics commission that closes the loopholes respected by previous presidents that Trump just bulldozed through. Federal charges are a moot point, agreed, but there isn't any reason his new AG can't have a direct line and Limewire connection to NY's AG, Letitia James

nimic said:
Honestly, when you consider the state of corporate politics in the US, it's easy to empathize with people who decided not to vote. I think I would have voted anyway, because the particular danger of Trump, but I don't live in the US, so it's impossible for me to judge those who feel thoroughly disenchanted with the entire political system. Eboue took a lot of shit for saying he wouldn't vote for Biden, and it went way beyond just disagreeing with his decision and stating so.
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Thanks for understanding
 
GiddyUp said:
Which one of those other options would have beaten trump?
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We will never know, now people can only defend their decisions with "only Biden can beat Trump" thing and try to paint it as a fact.
 
Kentonio said:
So fecking predictable. Democrats are spineless, morally deficient cnuts for the most part. Their only saving grace is not being as bad as the Republicans.
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The United States is at its most divided since the Civil War.

It would show a lack of leadership to take action that would widen that gap.
 
Sweet Square said:
How so ?

Progressive have made some gains but it only looks good due to the complete lack of representation before hand.

Even someone like AOC who's been labelled as the next possibly progressive candidate for president

1)Isn't as left as someone like Bernie

2)Isn't actually that popular to the wider American public(At least according to polls). Bernie had great numbers in popularity and he lost badly.

3)She would face all the same barriers such as a "party" machine which is completely against any progressives politics, centre right/liberal media and voter base made up of rich white suburbanites and a old conservative southern black voters who for a number of reasons are against progressive politics.

How do you get past all of this within the next 10 years ?
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I don't within the next 10 years. Its a slower process than that unfortunately and will requier a large proportion of the electorate to move on!
 
Dante said:
The United States is at its most divided since the Civil War.
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America in the 60's & 70's was far more divided than today imo.

The 60's included a number of high profiled assassinations including the actual president.
 
Sweet Square said:
America in the 60's & 70's was far more divided than today imo.

The 60's included a number of high profiled assassinations including the actual president.
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You could argue it was never really United. The country name including "United" is ironic.
 
VP89 said:
You could argue it was never really United. The country name including "United" is ironic.
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It's not even an argument. Even in WWII we had the internment camps. This country is just too big and too diverse within it's "bigness" to ever be united. This election was just so weird. Places like Florida and Montana voted Republican but still passed liberal policies like marijuana legalization, minimum wage increase and medicare expansion. This country is far more liberal than it lets on when it comes to local and state legislation. I just can't wrap my head around why those same people religiously vote republican at the Federal level when those people will try to undue what they voted for at the state level.
 
I'd be lying If I didn't think a few of you are actually republicans in real life. Constantly simping for them or looking for new ways to appease them.
 
Drifter said:
Joe Biden: I Have No Intention of Investigating Trump

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I understand the anger and wish Trump was thrown in jail asap but you have to reason with him not wanting to do it.
First of all, I think he means he is not going to ask his DoJ to investigate Trump. That will probably be left to whoever is AG.
The second thing is that investigating a previous administration was politically difficult at the best of times. Johnson-Nixon, Clinton-Bush, Obama-Bush Jr. There is a reason they all walked away from it. Doing it in this climate would be impossible.
 
Wonder what reaction would be in the same scenario just positions swaped.
 
WI_Red said:
It's not even an argument. Even in WWII we had the internment camps. This country is just too big and too diverse within it's "bigness" to ever be united. This election was just so weird. Places like Florida and Montana voted Republican but still passed liberal policies like marijuana legalization, minimum wage increase and medicare expansion. This country is far more liberal than it lets on when it comes to local and state legislation. I just can't wrap my head around why those same people religiously vote republican at the Federal level when those people will try to undue what they voted for at the state level.
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It's big, it's diverse and it's random as you eluded to with some state results.
But it's not helped by a broken, convoluted political system and a far right Republican party.
 
Adisa said:
The second thing is that investigating a previous administration was politically difficult at the best of times. Johnson-Nixon, Clinton-Bush, Obama-Bush Jr. There is a reason they all walked away from it.
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Nixon walked away from prosecuting Johnson? Clinton from HW? What was happening there?
 
Dante said:
The United States is at its most divided since the Civil War.

It would show a lack of leadership to take action that would widen that gap.
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How many times does this policy of appeasement have to be shown to be bullshit before people accept its bullshit? Remember when Obama was elected? Remember how divided everyone was, and how Obama promised to not pursue Bush and how he was going to bring the country back together? So how did that work out? Because he genuinely did try, and the Republicans spat in his face for it. And now 4 years later things are 10 times as bad. So now we're going to do it all again right, with an even worse ex-President who isn't going anywhere and will certainly spend the next four years screaming about the election being stolen no matter what the Democrats try and do?

Seriously enough already. The GOP have gone total war, and they're shaking the foundations of the country to their core. Either the Democrats step up and fight back properly or America is fecked. If the GOP can literally break the law openly and brazenly and walk away scot free afterwards, then why would they obey the law? Why would their next candidate not lie, cheat and steal at every opportunity if the Dems send the message that they will never hold them accountable regardless?
 
Organic Potatoes said:
HW pardoned some involved in Iran-Contra under Reagan, is that what you’re talking about?

And Johnson preceded Nixon, Ford pardoned him as part of a deal for his resignation.
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I meant Ford, sorry.
And yes on the first part. There were calls for Clinton to investigate Bush.
 
berbatrick said:


another qualification added. maybe the utopia promised by kamala harris is on its way.

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Worst student debt forgiveness plan I ever heard. A really bad idea that is just offensive to people really struggling.
 
golden_blunder said:
No, but since there were only 2 candidates then surely you take the lesser of 2 evils and hope for more progressive options in 4 years time
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I think it's possible to say both: Biden worked and it's great that Trump has lost; but Biden will nonetheless be a poor president for progressive issues. From my perspective, it is useful to start talking about that ASAP. Biden is picking is transition team and cabinet members right now, so any pressure from the left has to be exerted from the get-go to try and nudge Biden ever so slightly to the left in his picks (which is probably the maximum achievable right now). And this pressure needs to continue to exist throughout his presidency to make clear at all times the getting rid of Trump was just a first step, not the end game. Otherwise, the Dems will think that the Biden profile is pretty much perfect and needs no change for the next election. As a progressive, you want them to think a step left is required next. (In the hopes that there will actually be something to choose next time. As some are suggesting, the Dems might be grooming Harris to run as Biden's successor with the exact same political profile.)

WI_Red said:
It's not even an argument. Even in WWII we had the internment camps. This country is just too big and too diverse within it's "bigness" to ever be united. This election was just so weird. Places like Florida and Montana voted Republican but still passed liberal policies like marijuana legalization, minimum wage increase and medicare expansion. This country is far more liberal than it lets on when it comes to local and state legislation. I just can't wrap my head around why those same people religiously vote republican at the Federal level when those people will try to undue what they voted for at the state level.
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I don't live in the US so I don't have on-the-ground experience with this, but as I mentioned before somewhere on here, I was reading that most Americans agree on a lot of political issue. If parties (and especially the GOP) weren't feeding partisanship by artificially creating wedge issues (like abortion and gun control), you would not have this sick climate on the federal level (and seeping into other levels), and actually a lot of collaboration on most of what actually matters in people's daily lives.

For what it's worth, it's a bit similar in Canada. except on the oil/environment balance, Alberta is not that deeply different from e.g. Quebec, but especially the current Alberta conservative leadership is really playing up Alberta's isolated position on key issues in Canada, creating an impression of deep differences. They have short-term goals for this, but long-term, it can be really damaging.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
HW pardoned some involved in Iran-Contra under Reagan, is that what you’re talking about?

And Johnson preceded Nixon, Ford pardoned him as part of a deal for his resignation.
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William Barr was the one called upon to clean up Iran Contra iirc.
 
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