The best team you've ever seen playing

sincher said:
Sorry to say this but I think the Liverpool side of the late 80s would have given that Milan side a hell of a game.
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Several teams did anyway. @devilish makes it sound like they dominated the football world with ease, but they needed their fair share of luck to win the two European Cups. They were pretty much out of the European Cup in 1988 against Belgrad, had a player sent off and were 1-0 down in the return leg (the first leg ended 1-1). Then fog came up, so thick, that the game was called off and replayed the next day. They got a new chance with 11 men, it ended in a draw and Milan went through on penalties. They could have easily gone out against Heynckes' first Bayern side in the semifinals in 1990 as well, both teams created enough chances to win the tie and in the end Milan went through on away goals in extra time.

They never won the league and the European Cup in the same season either and while Serie A was clearly the strongest league in the world back then, there were several other fantastic European teams, that might be signficiantly underrated today. I'd argue there were as many, if not more, real top teams than we have today, because the foreigner rule prevented that smaller leagues lost all their top players early. That Belgrad side, that should have kicked Milan out in 1989, kept their team together and went on to win the European Cup in 1991. A truely great side, fantastic to watch.

That being sad, it's hard to argue against Sacchi's Milan team being one of the greatest, if not the greatest, team of all time. In full flow, they were the best I've ever seen. They could starve you off possession, they could sit deep and counterattack and they were strong and physical and could bully the opponent if they had to. In a way they were just flawless, something that you probably can't say about Pep's Barca, even though Milan was less dominant, less consistent.
 
Yeah, Pep's Barca too for me. Three of the best players ever, not only in the same team but all at their prime and with many years of experiene of playing together too - unstoppable. AC Milan from about 2003-2007 where great to watch, as someone said, world class player in nearly all 11 positions.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
To me Barca were the better side because they were essentially Spain but with Messi leading their attack. Both ridiculously good, but Barca get my vote.
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Yeah exactly. The reason Barca were less dominant, ironically, is because Spain had the benefit of having loads of Barca players who are used to playing with each other week in week out. That's a tremendous advantage at international level. Imagine if Messi had been playing for Spain!
 
When people talk about Pep's Barcelona it's only ever three names mentioned. I know Xavi, Iniesta and Messi were a cut above everyone except Ronaldo in that period, but not enough credit is given to their team mates.

Pique was brilliant then, he had the warrior and Barca legend Puyol beside him and Alves was fantastic to watch back then, he had a unique understanding with Messi and was easily the best attacking full back in the world.

Busquets is mainly thought of as a cheat, many ignore what an important cog he was in Pep's machine. He allowed Xavi and Iniesta to do their thing.

Pedro as well, under Guardiola he had a very impressive goalscoring tally and really looked like he could be a great player for a long time. Hasn't worked for him since but he was excellent to watch in that team.
 
Barney said:
Always find it amusing when this team are put into the conversation. I know they won three trophies, but there have been significantly better United sides since as well as other teams who would have beat them too.
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An English team hadn't won the CL for donkeys years at that point, English football was quite a long way behind, so yeah I agree there are teams who would have beaten them, I don't think maybe people would argue that. They definitely deserve a mention though, that whole midfield 4 and goalkeeper were genuinely top class, as was Cole and Yorke's understanding up front. Very exciting football too.
 
soap said:
Yeah, Pep's Barca too for me. Three of the best players ever, not only in the same team but all at their prime and with many years of experiene of playing together too - unstoppable. AC Milan from about 2003-2007 where great to watch, as someone said, world class player in nearly all 11 positions.
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That team is basically cheating.
 
soap said:
They had Rui Costa on the bench too :lol:
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And one of the great poachers of the time - Inzaghi.

It's so sad to see such a great a club in the state they're in now. You lot think you've had it bad since Fergie retired but take one look at Milan and you'll realise you've had it easy.
 
JamesB__ said:
And one of the great poachers of the time - Inzaghi.

It's so sad to see such a great a club in the state they're in now. You lot think you've had it bad since Fergie retired but take one look at Milan and you'll realise you've had it easy.
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Oh I somehow forgot Inzaghi. Weird player. Very little tangible skill, just scored "lucky" goals so frequently it can't be called luck. I watched a compilation of all of his career goals, there were maybe 2 good ones and a handful of nice headers, mental.
 
I really enjoyed watching the Barca team that had Ronaldinho/Eto'o/Guily in attack with Messi playing every so often.

Midfield of Deco/Xavi/Vanbommel or Marquez with Iniesta coming on from the bench.

Great team.
 
JamesB__ said:
8370097.jpg


That team is basically cheating.
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Disgusting team, so much talent I mean Stam, Nesta, Maldini and Cafu in a defence is not fair :lol:, but then you look at the midfield and attack. One of the most magical teams ever, back when nobody wanted to draw AC Milan in the Champions League.
 
Balu said:
Several teams did anyway. @devilish makes it sound like they dominated the football world with ease, but they needed their fair share of luck to win the two European Cups. They were pretty much out of the European Cup in 1988 against Belgrad, had a player sent off and were 1-0 down in the return leg (the first leg ended 1-1). Then fog came up, so thick, that the game was called off and replayed the next day. They got a new chance with 11 men, it ended in a draw and Milan went through on penalties. They could have easily gone out against Heynckes' first Bayern side in the semifinals in 1990 as well, both teams created enough chances to win the tie and in the end Milan went through on away goals in extra time.

They never won the league and the European Cup in the same season either and while Serie A was clearly the strongest league in the world back then, there were several other fantastic European teams, that might be signficiantly underrated today. I'd argue there were as many, if not more, real top teams than we have today, because the foreigner rule prevented that smaller leagues lost all their top players early. That Belgrad side, that should have kicked Milan out in 1989, kept their team together and went on to win the European Cup in 1991. A truely great side, fantastic to watch.

That being sad, it's hard to argue against Sacchi's Milan team being one of the greatest, if not the greatest, team of all time. In full flow, they were the best I've ever seen. They could starve you off possession, they could sit deep and counterattack and they were strong and physical and could bully the opponent if they had to. In a way they were just flawless, something that you probably can't say about Pep's Barca, even though Milan was less dominant, less consistent.
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I agree with most of you said. However let me focus on what I disagree with.


AC Milan wasn't as dominant as Barcelona. That depends on how you see it. Under Sacchi AC Milan won the European cup, the Super cup and the Intercontinental Super cup for 2 years in a row. The year before they won the Serie A title. That does sound like dominance to me. However that says just part of the story. To understand if and why AC Milan weren't as 'dominant' as Barcelona under Pep you need to give a close look of AC Milan pre Sacchi and post Sacchi

a- Pep became Barcelona's manager when they were at the brink of greatness. Sacchi found a somehow different scenario. He found a team who hasn't been able to win the league for the past nine years and had just finished 5th in the league and 7th in the year before. In 4 years the man was able to win the league title in his first year, the CL and Supercoppa in the second year, the CL, Intercontinental cup and European cup the year after, 3 successful years in 4.

b- Sacchi left in 1991 however how much influence had he on the Milan success in the latter years? Most of the players who won back to back titles (4 Serie A titles) and a CL in 1994 played under Sacchi. In the 93-94 final 6 out of 11 players had played under Sacchi. Capello himself was Sacchi's man.

Ultimately you can safely say that while Barcelona under Pep won 2 CL, Sacchi's team won 3 (1 under Capello). Pep Guardiola's Barcelona won 4 league titles, AC Milan under Sacchi or his second Capello won 5. When you consider that the Serie A in the 80s-90s was much tougher back then La Liga then its easy to deduce who was the most dominant team.
 
devilish said:
When you consider that the Serie A in the 80s-90s was much tougher back then La Liga then its easy to deduce who was the most dominant team.
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That makes no sense. Yes, Serie A was much tougher back then and I sure as hell won't start comparing how many points they collected in the league to prove a point, that would be silly because of the different strengths of the leagues. But Milan finished 2nd and 3rd while winning European Cups, that's simply not dominance. And as great as Maradona and Matthäus were, when they lead Napoli and Inter to league titles, those teams weren't all time great sides, yet still finished above Milan. No team in Europe would have beaten Pep's Barca to a league title between the 2008/09 and 2010/11 seasons. That's dominance. I don't think that makes Pep's team necessarily the better side, let alone the more exciting one. It sure as hell means they were more dominant though.

I also don't like to include Capello's team in that discussion. If Barca win the CL this year, does that really reflect that much back on Pep's team? It's exactly the same time frame and probably around the same number of players swapped out. I don't buy that. Sure, there's still some influence there, but Capello's Milan side never reached the same heights even though they were actually more dominant and consistent in their performances.
 
Balu said:
That makes no sense. Yes, Serie A was much tougher back then and I sure as hell won't start comparing how many points they collected in the league to prove a point, that would be silly because of the different strengths of the leagues. But Milan finished 2nd and 3rd while winning European Cups, that's simply not dominance. And as great as Maradona and Matthäus were, when they lead Napoli and Inter to league titles, those teams weren't all time great sides, yet still finished above Milan. No team in Europe would have beaten Pep's Barca to a league title between the 2008/09 and 2010/11 seasons. That's dominance. I don't think that makes Pep's team necessarily the better side, let alone the more exciting one. It sure as hell means they were more dominant though.

I also don't like to include Capello's team in that discussion. If Barca win the CL this year, does that really reflect that much back on Pep's team? It's exactly the same time frame and probably around the same number of players swapped out. I don't buy that. Sure, there's still some influence there, but Capello's Milan side never reached the same heights even though they were actually more dominant and consistent in their performances.
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I don't think it silly at all. To give you an idea Fiorentina had players like Dunga and Roberto Baggio in their team back in 1989-1990 and they finished just 1 point away from relegation. During that same season the league was won by small team Napoli who had a certain Diego Armando Maradona in their team, alongside Careca and Zola. Which small La Liga teams could field players of that calibre during Pep's era?

Regarding your second point its open to interpretation. If Phelan took over SAF and he immediately won the league with a team mostly built by SAF would that be Phelan's or SAF's team?
 
devilish said:
Regarding your second point its open to interpretation. If Phelan took over SAF and he immediately won the league with a team mostly built by SAF would that be Phelan's or SAF's team?
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That's different. Fair enough if you talk about Capello's first league title. Vilanova won the league with a club record points total the first season after Pep left, of course Pep still deserves some credit for it. By the time Capello won the CL, the team was a lot more different though. The same as it would be today with Barca.

devilish said:
I don't think it silly at all. To give you an idea Fiorentina had players like Dunga and Roberto Baggio in their team back in 1989-1990 and they finished just 1 point away from relegation. During that same season the league was won by small team Napoli who had a certain Diego Armando Maradona in their team, alongside Careca and Zola. Which small La Liga teams could field players of that calibre during Pep's era?
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Apples and oranges. Comparing leagues before and after the EU foreigner rule/Bosman is impossible. It changed everything. I'd understand your point if we compared Milan with Real's Galactico side from 1998 to 2002. Then you could argue that Real failed to dominate when they should while it's somewhat understandable that Sacchi's Milan didn't. You simply can't expect more than what Pep's Barca did in the league though, that's as dominant as you can be. And it's not like Real didn't try to beat them to it in 2009/10 and 10/11.
 
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Balu said:
That's different. Fair enough if you talk about Capello's first league title. Vilanova won the league with a club record points total the first season after Pep left, of course Pep still deserves some credit for it. By the time Capello won the CL, the team was a lot more different though. The same as it would be today with Barca.


Apples and oranges. Comparing leagues before and after the EU foreigner rule/Bosman is impossible. It changed everything. I'd understand your point if we compared Milan with Real's Galactico side from 1998 to 2002. Then you could argue that Real failed to dominate when they should while it's somewhat understandable that Sacchi's Milan didn't. You simply can't expect more than what Pep's Barca did in the league though, that's as
dominant as you can be. And it's not like Real didn't try to beat them to it in 2009/10 and 10/11.
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a- 6 of the players who playing in Capello's CL final were actually Sacchi players (1993-1994). Its not surprising since Sacchi left the club just 2 years earlier.

b- And yet you didn't answered my question. Were there players of the calibre of Baggio, Careca, Zola, Maradona etc playing in the smaller La Liga teams? Cause that's what Milan faced during that era in their bid of winning the league. Between 1980 and 1993 (13 yrs) the league was won by 7 different teams (Inter, Roma, Juventus, Milan, Napoli, Verona, Sampdoria). To have the same thing in La Liga you need to go back to around 1980 (25 yrs) (Atletico Madrid, Barcelona, Real, Valencia, Deportivo La Coruna, Athletico Bilbao, Real Sociedad). Thats how competitive the Serie A was back in the day.
 
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devilish said:
And yet you didn't answered my question.
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I don't think it matters to be honest. The to me important question isn't 'what team played in the stronger league' but 'did the team consistently play to the best of their abilisties in the league they're placed in'. We can't dismiss every other team in world football just because they didn't play in Serie A during the 80's and 90's. Different times, different rules, different expectations to fulfill.

But no, of course not. I'm not sure why you even want me to answer that. I never argued against it, I actually used it as an explanation why it's somewhat acceptable that Sacchi's Milan didn't dominate the league the same way Pep's Barca did.
 
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