The Americas Draft, R1: onenil vs Raees 7-5

Considering players at their peak, who will win the match?

  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .

Chesterlestreet

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TEAM ONENILTOTHEARSENAL

Ballet Bonito

This team and tactic is built on Tele Santana’s 1982 Brazil team as a foundation with an emphasis on making the adjustments that history shows could have benefited Brazil. In Brazil, Santana’s striker and goalkeeper selections were widely questioned. The few weaknesses shown at the world cup support this wariness at the time. My goal was preserve the heart, spirit and beautiful play of the 1982 team (Zico and Socrates) while making subtle adjustments to overcome the weaknesses shown against Italy in particular. Improving the defense and granting Careca the chance to play with Zico and Socrates in their primes were goals in drafting.


Superior Defensive Organization: Domingos Da Guia was widely the best defender in the world in the late 30s and early 40s. He led the Brazilian team that first gathered international renown at the World Cup in France being named to Best XI of the Cup. He was highly praised by Uruguay legend Obdulio Varela. More than just a great athlete, Domingos provides calm and organized leadership. He leads the defense and offers qualities that no Brazilian CB of 1982 could equal. Gilmar gives the side Brazil’s best keeper rather than a keeper that most Brazilians wished was overlooked in favor of Emerson Leao. Julio Cesar and Gilberto add strength and positional awareness while Eyzaguirre can run a flank effectively.


Upgraded Offensive Balance: Many attacking moves from Brazil died with the striker Serginho. He was not nearly as good as Careca or the snubbed Reinaldo. This forced both Falcao and even Cerezo to play more attacking than they should have while Junior shifted into defensive midfield half spaces frequently - which is actually an older tactic. This was inefficient and not ideal. By adding Careca and upgrading on Eder with Leonel Sanchez the offensive potency of this attack is shifted to the point of the spear instead of the unbalanced middle. The Careca-Zico-Socrates-Sanchez attacking quartet balances the team more than the midfield focused attack of Tele Santana where many moves died with superfluous Serginho.


  • Zico and Socrates offer a unique synergy. They have tremendous chemistry, playing together for not just country but even club at times. Their qualities complementing each other perfectly as a 10 and 8. This is the heart of my team.

  • Ballet Azul - I wanted a set or a few pairs of actual teammates from other sides that played a similar (or at least as close as possible) to fill my pool 2 slots. This would preserve team chemistry and fluidity from my pool 2 selections. El Ballet Azul Universidad de Chile edition fits this criteria perfectly. They started with a bit of a La Masia approach back in the post-war period in Chile ensuring both a bond among teammates and higher degree of familiarity. This makes them a perfect complement to the Brazilian jogo bonito players.

Tactic Explanation

Zico and Socrates will interchange fluidly as they frequently did. Both can drift wide and provide threats from the right or even swap temporarily with Careca and charge into the created open space. Careca, used to roaming at Napoli and opening space for Maradona, can function seamlessly here. Sanchez stretches the defense from the left flank and supplies a variety of threats with his dangerous left foot. Ruben Marcos will be more positionally aware than Santana’s use of Falcao and the all action midfielder will be breaking up plays all over while still situationally contributing to the offense. Marcos has the awareness and experience to smother the opponent’s no.10, his role at Universidad de Chile.


Gilberto Yearwood complements this by patiently controlling the space in front of the center backs while Marcos roams. Together they are not as flashy as Falcao-Cerezo but form a more solid foundation. With Careca spearheading a more skillful attack, less offense is needed out of central midfield but more positional awareness. Domingos marshalls the defense while Julio Cesar functions as the strong, fast athletic stopper. The fullbacks are given conditional license to attack ensuring both will not be caught too far up at the same time.


Keys to Victory


  • Zico-Socrates-Careca-Sanchez can do here what Brazil did to Argentina in Espana’82. Fluid, attacking combinations should provide numerous unpredictable scoring opportunities. Different players contribute situationally: Marinho, Marcos and Eyzaguirre. Domingos and send occasional long passes from center defense.

  • Set pieces. Despite the focus on beautiful attacking football, we are very solid at all forms of set pieces. We have many free kick takers who have scored fabulous goals like Socrates and Zico. We also have many strong and/or tall players with good aerial ability in Domingos, Gilberto Yearwood, Julio Cesar and Socrates. Zico has even beaten Fillol on a free kick under high pressure in the World Cup.

ZICO
Rooster of Quintino. Considered by many to be the best player in the world in the late 1970s and early 1980s. 333 goals in 435 games at the Maracanã. 52 goals in 59 official games in calendar year 1982 which some consider his best. Capable of dominating games with his technique and combinations. Best XI of the 1982 World Cup. Three times the South American Footballer of the Year (‘77, ‘81, ‘82).

SOCRATES (C)
Doctor. One of the most unique footballers to ever play. Master of the back heel pass and unpredictable actions. The captain, heart and metronome of the 1980 - 1986 Brazil selections. Amazing reader of the game. Could intelligently pop up between the holding midfielders to dictate pace of the match or swap fluidly with Zico and exploit the right flank. Tele Santana even played him as a false9 striker in several matches. 172 goals in 297 appearances for Corinthians. Best XI of the 1982 World Cup.

DOMINGOS Da Guia
Divine Master. Won Uruguayan, Brazilian, Argentine leagues three years in a row becoming a massive legend in all three countries. Brought mental strength and instilled a calm resolute quality in his team’s play. Best XI of the 1938 World Cup. Best player of the 1945 South American Championship.

CARECA
There are even Italians who believe had Careca been the striker in Espana‘82, Brazil would have won. He partnered with Maradona in the famous Ma-Gi-Ca trio that won the Scudetto over the legendary European champion AC Milan side. Best XI of the 1986 World Cup.

Leonel SANCHEZ
Left wing of el Ballet Azul of the Universidad de Chile. Known for his rocket left foot. Sanchez tied for the Golden Boot at the 1962 World Cup. Not one to back down from bullying, he is also known by @harms for his “neat left hook”.

Luis EYZAGUIRRE
Fifo. Controller of right flank for Ballet Azu of the U. Selected for the Rest of the World squad vs. England in 1963. Fifo was one of the first side backs to stay close to the line and not move into midfield but stretch and dominate the flanks.


Ruben MARCOS
Seven Lungs. Charged with smothering the best central midfielder of the opposition for Ballet Azul, Marcos has the engine and intelligence to even contribute goals on big occasions like the World Cup.

JULIO CESAR
A strong, fast and intelligent stopper noted for his aerial ability and positioning in addition to physical traits. He also formed a legendary partnership with Matthias Sammer in Dortmund’s Champions League winning campaign of 96/97. Won the UEFA Cup with Juventus. Best XI of the 1986 World Cup.

MARINHO Chagas
The Blonde Witch. Known for his attacking play on the left flank but still strong and fast enough to offer solid defense. Second in the South American Player of the Year voting in 1974 and given Placar’s Best in Position award in ‘72,’73 and ‘81.

GILBERTO Yearwood
Considered Honduras’ greatest player by many Central Americans. A powerful and elegant defensive midfielder who never panicked holding his ground. His 1982 World Cup performances against Spain and Yugoslavia were rated 5 / 6 by France Football.

GILMAR
Pele was at Santos since 1956, Zito since 1952, Coutinho since 1958. Yet Santos did not start dominating Brazilian leagues,Copa Libertadores and European sides until Santos signed Corinthians’ keeper Gilmar. The missing piece of the winning puzzle was Gilmar.

5gWgpZV.jpg
 


TEAM RAEES
  • Formation: 3-2-2-3
  • Style of Play: Imagine a Pep-esque team with dazzlingly direct possession play and cutting edge coming from the wide players and a very nimble striker up top. Two dovetailing 8/10hybrids like David Silva/KDB but one of them is one of the greatest south american players ever playing in his best position of insight right forward and a balanced midfield pairing which can pick the ball up, spray it around as well as keep it defensively tight. Defenders who are all comfortable on the ball and two aggressive dribbling but goalscoring wingers, both arguably in the top 5 of south american wingers.
  • Thoughts on the opposition: Very classy opponent, with Zico/Socrates, Careca up top.. DDG in defence, and a whole host of solid respected internationals throughout. I think he will score goals against me but my aim is to outscore him and take him on in a toe to toe battle and take control of possession. Where I can outmanoeuvre him..
  1. Midfield battle - I think my midfield 4 of the defensively industrious Kante-esque Benitez (European Cup winner of 1963 - could also play CB/RB), midfield general Falcao and the supremely gifted attacking midfielders (Recoba and Moreno) would edge the opposition midfield and take control.. Di Stefano said he felt inferior to Moreno, which says everything about his class and Recoba who is inconsistent has so much class around him, if he fails to fire.. it doesn't make an iota of difference. If he fires, then wow what a midfield square.
  2. Attack v defence - my attacking 5 is ridiculously talented and free flowing. I think it could break down even a GOAT south american defence, but in this match up I envisage it would be very hard for him to keep my team down to even 2 goals. Da Guia, is a legendary defender who lost his cool in the biggest tournament of his career.. the World Cup, gifting Italy the victory by losing his temper and giving away a penalty. In contrast my attackers are big match operators, Jairzinho and Orsi are both world cup winners, so is Petrone who was Uruguays leading marksmen during the 1920's where they won successive Olympic golds.
  3. My Back three and greatest GK from South America - Three centre backs with excellent pedigree and all are considered thinking man's defenders - not thugs.. hence why I selected Orlando over Tejera as he is considered more of a Vidic. In a back three, I think it is important to have very flexible defenders who can defend the flanks as well as centrally, nimble on their feet and good pace. Orlando is described by Tim Vickery as second only to Da Guia in Brazil's all time stakes and in his opinion had Orlando not been banished in 1962 (for moving to River Plate), he would have been a double WC winner and the best Brazilian CB of all time. Filliol, winner of the 78 WC is usually considered the greatest goalkeeper from the continent and was famed for his exceptional reflexes and unerring ability to block shots which seemed destined for the back of the net.

    * Fillol - WC Winner 1978 - keeper of the tourney award, first keeper to win South American player of the year award
    * Orlando - WC 1958 Winner, became a legend in Argentina for River Plate, banned from 1962 WC .. in Vickery's All Time XI
    * Ayala - Regarded as one of the best central defenders of his generation, he stood out for his leadership and ability in the air
    * Montero - His international reputation is "fearsome, immovable and essential, in a back line that conquered Italy and Europe"
    * Benitez - Peru's greatest DM alongside Velasquez, but conquered Italy and Europe, winning 1963 CL - great athleticism
    * Falcao - One of the greatest CM's of all time, part of that glorious 82 team - the King of Rome
    * Recoba - One of the most gifted yet inconsistent footballers, deadly deadly left foot, with insane dribbling/creativity.
    * Moreno - 'La Maquina legend' for many who saw him play he is the greatest player of all time, even better than Di Stéfano.
    * Jairzinho - Scored in every game in 1970 WC Finals and gave Fachetti a beasting, worthy successor to Garrincha
    * Orsi - WC 1934 Winner - he was an extremely quick player, with excellent technical ability, who was renowned for his dribbling skills and his use of feints to beat opponents.
    * Pedro - “The Artillery Man” The best striker of the World during the 1920s, and is regarded as the greatest Uruguayan striker of all-time. He is one of the fastest footballer in his era , was timed in the hundred metres at 11 seconds, was noted for his aggressive, positional play and powerful shooting.
 
I can only see one lineup ?

EDIT: Haha nevermind I was too early!
 
First thoughts are Leonel Sanchez looks very dangerous, backed up by Marinho Chagas I think Raees' team might have a weakness on that side.
 
As a 1982 remake and upgrade, that's a fine effort. The central midfield pair is perhaps somewhat pragmatic in comparison, but that's no bad thing to be honest. Particularly like the Chagas selection, he drifted into that inside-left channel a lot in 1974. In a clash of styles, Zico would likely get a lot of joy here against Montero.

Ballsy attempt from Raees at a 3-2-2-3. Moreno especially looks custom-designed for that role. I always have concerns about defensive width without full-backs or wing-backs around, but certainly the back three unit are well chosen.
 
I dont like Recoba's role here at all, nor the explanation for what will happen if he isn't on form.
 
DavidG said:
I dont like Recoba's role here at all, nor the explanation for what will happen if he isn't on form.
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Yes, I'm a big Recoba fan myself, but it's a fairly pivotal tactical role he has here and, if he doesn't fancy it, could unravel the whole midfield set-up.
 
@Raees I think you can get more out of moreno defensively in this team. Given your set up isnt too far off that of La maquina, It makes sense for me to have Moreno helping out on the right side as opposed to going infield where your arrow indicates. There are a fair few quotes around that describe him as getting back to cover the whole of the right side, giving some much needed help to Orlando who is really up against it with Leonel Sanchez coming at him.
 
Tactics wise, I feel using a version of the WM with no wide defenders is a mistake against my set-up. Leonel Sanchez, top scorer at the 1962 World Cup, with Marinho supporting that flank is going to cause a lot of problems on that side. I also see that causing some trouble for Falcao who is positioned on that side and will have to help out defensively, thus dragging him out of position and limiting his natural play.

I can also see problems for Recoba in this set-up as he seems starved for space. I can see problems like the graphic below where Recoba ends up blocking off passing lanes for Orsi thus limiting the effectiveness. Even Recoba's manager does not seem confident of him performing in the role given.

http://spielverlagerung.com/wp-cont...016/08/Arsenals-redundant-overload.png?78d311

@DavidG I whipped it up in photoshop when I had a little extra time. This website I found later has good jersey graphics along with a lot of good WC stats

http://www.everyfourthyear.com/worldcup1982/
 
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Jayvin said:
First thoughts are Leonel Sanchez looks very dangerous, backed up by Marinho Chagas I think Raees' team might have a weakness on that side.
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Sanchez and Chagas will be going down a flank which has Jairzinho, Moreno, Falcao and Orlando (arguably my best defender). So I think if anything he has his work cut out on that flank.. not me.
 
Gio said:
Yes, I'm a big Recoba fan myself, but it's a fairly pivotal tactical role he has here and, if he doesn't fancy it, could unravel the whole midfield set-up.
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The thing with Recoba is that he is neither a winger at his best, nor as a pure number 10. he's abit like a nuclear powered David Silva and that is exactly how I intend to play him. Silva and De Bruyne is my blueprint here.. and I think Recoba will have tons of freedom when my side is in possession to do what he does best.

Off the ball, I concede that flank looks vulnerable but he is playing Sanchez on the left, not the right.. so it plays into my hand tactically.
 
Physiocrat said:
@Raees How high is you defensive line?
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Balanced, but I wouldn't say it is deep.. I am looking to dictate the possession so obviously my backline will act as a backboard to play off. I don't want to give space for Zico and Socrates to take control, I want to dictate the game to them.
 
Raees said:
The thing with Recoba is that he is neither a winger at his best, nor as a pure number 10. he's abit like a nuclear powered David Silva and that is exactly how I intend to play him. Silva and De Bruyne is my blueprint here.. and I think Recoba will have tons of freedom when my side is in possession to do what he does best.

Off the ball, I concede that flank looks vulnerable but he is playing Sanchez on the left, not the right.. so it plays into my hand tactically.
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I don't think he ever came close to replicating David Silva's work rate off the ball and consistent involvement on the ball. He was an impact player basically, who was always prone to vanishing for large chunks of a match. I don't think he's the right man for a rather demanding defensive brief of covering the left flank. I still remember my jaw hitting the floor watching his Inter debut live and I'm happy to see him gtting picked here, but I think he really needs to be used closer to goal with minimal defensive responsibilities. That debut though :drool:

 
Orlando at the 1958 World Cup played on the left side of center defense next to Nilton Santos in a back 4. Here is an interview with Bellini where he states, "I took it upon myself to tackle an opponent entering the defence from our right, a striker from the left being handled by Orlando."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/23/bellini

Here Orlando is being asked to play on the right side of a back 3 up against a natural left winger selected as 40th best South American in IFHHS century poll. That is out of his natural comfort zone. Leonel Sanchez is going to drag Orlando very far to cover that flank.

This leaves only 3 natural defenders (Montero-Ayala-Benitez) to cover the entire center and right side against Zico-Socrates-Careca. I will take that 3v3 all game. I think it will be very hard to win the possession game against me when my attacking players that thrive in space have been given that much free space with no wide defenders.

I see the lack of side backs as the decisive tactical difference considering the level of the players here, especially Orlando (or even Falcao) having to cover out of position.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Not one to back down from bullying, he is also known by @harms for his “neat left hook”.
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He is? Not saying that he isn't, but my memory isn't what it used to be, did I say that?

I rarely like 1982 remakes but this one looks quite nice.

Btw, was Eder even picked? :( He had one hell of a left hook!
 
Onenil's formation depends heavily on fullbacks tos succeed and they'll get punished with Orsi/Jairzinho on the counter esp with Falcao orchestrating from the middle. It'll be a high scoring match for sure and Raees will take it by 4-3 or something like that imo.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Onenil's formation depends heavily on fullbacks tos succeed and they'll get punished with Orsi/Jairzinho on the counter esp with Falcao orchestrating from the middle. It'll be a high scoring match for sure and Raees will take it by 4-3 or something like that imo.
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My attack does not depend heavily on fullbacks and even less so against a WM formation. My attacking quartet alone is going to give a back 3 of three CBs with only 1 natural DM an awful lot of problems especially when the right CB tasked to cover a top 50 winger (Orlando) is used to playing on the opposite side of the pitch. Orlando never played as a make shift RB which is what is being asked of him here.
 
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oneniltothearsenal said:
My attack does not depend heavily on fullbacks and even less so against a WM formation. My attacking quartet alone is going to give a back 3 of three CBs with only 1 natural DM an awful lot of problems especially when one CB (Orlando) is used to playing on the left side of the pitch and never played as a make shift RB which is asked of him here.
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He is a right footed CB, known for his speed and ability to read the game.. it isn't an ideal fit granted, but its not like I am playing Silvestre on the RCB slot.. he's got more than enough to his game to do a job there.

Plus Sanchez isn't like Alexis Sanchez, he's a goalscoring playmaker like a Rivelino style..

Mainly a left winger but also a centre forward and sometimes used in midfield as playmaker, he was most known for his rocket shot with his left foot, solid set piece taker, not too fast and playing instinctively, had good technique and ball control, very aggressive even controversial behaviour sometimes. It was formed in the lower divisions of the club Universidad de Chile , which came with eleven years. Already during his stay in the youth set the "U" everyone started talking about a lefty who played 16 years as a veteran and aimed too high. He started playing as a left entreala excelled in the creation of game and in the end, though he had the qualities of a playmaker.
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I'd rather have rock solid defender there, then a right back who is better at defending against an archetypal winger which Sanchez is not.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
My attack does not depend heavily on fullbacks and even less so against a WM formation. My attacking quartet alone is going to give a back 3 of three CBs with only 1 natural DM an awful lot of problems especially when one CB (Orlando) is used to playing on the left side of the pitch and never played as a make shift RB which is asked of him here.
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Imo, he can stretch your defence more. Both Orsi and Jairzinho can and will operate wide as well cut in and Moreno is a well rounded player and a big threat in the box himself. On the flip side, I expect his defence to stay compact and let Falcao conduct the game. You certainly have advantage of better players (Zico vs Montero) but in a crowded box, it'll be difficult for your team to score.

Mmm good point on Orlando. I somehow missed that. Let me read up on Orlando a bit more, but if that's the case, it'll be too much of a liability against Sanchez and I may have to change my vote.
 
I think people need to read up on Sanchez more. He's being made out to be a George Best when he isn't even a fast dribbling sort of player, he's an intelligent playmaker who possesses good movement and is a goalscorer. More like a Robert Pires/Rivelino style winger but even then that would be giving him too much credit for his dribbling. He's not renowned for his dribbling at all.

That type of wide player is not going to be tearing Orlando a new one, who is one of the fastest CB's Brazil has ever had.

http://www.pesmitidelcalcio.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2446
 
Also I think more needs to be made of my attacking quintet..

Raimundo Orsi

Greatest winger of the Pre World War II era. One of the greatest players of his time, and one of the best ever players in his position, Orsi was a quick left-footed winger, who usually played on the left flank, due to his crossing ability. A prolific goalscorer, he was an accurate finisher, both with his head and his feet, and he excelled in the air and acrobatically; because of this he was also capable of playing as a striker, and on the right flank, a position in which he was able to make diagonal attacking runs or cut into the centre to shoot with his stronger foot. Nicknamed "Mumo", despite his lack of shooting power and physical strength, he was an extremely quick player, with excellent technical ability, who was renowned for his dribbling skills and his use of feints to beat opponents. He was also an accurate penalty kick take


Recoba




Moreno

(Argentina): I heard many South American old enough journalists saying that he was better than Pele and Di Stefano (actually, he played with Di Stefano in
River). Unfortunately, for political reasons Argentina excluded itself from international soccer in its best time (late fourties and early fifties).
While Uruguay and Brasil dominated the WC, Argentina had dominated both of them in the South America arena at the time.

Jairzinho:


Pedro Petrone:

The Artillery Man” Pedro Petrone is the best striker of the World during the 1920s, and is regarded as the greatest Uruguayan striker of all-time. He is one of the fastest footballer in his era , was timed in the hundred metres at 11 seconds, was noted for his aggressive, positional play and powerful shooting. Petrone is also one of the most prolific scorers in history of Uruguayan league. His performance for Uruguay was in the state of so impressive. But still, He was not in his prime in the 1930 world cup consenting Hector Castro to be a starter instead but he still won 2 times Olympic Game which was very close to World Cup tournament in that era. Petrone holds the record most topscorer in history of Copa America Game with 3 time

Petrone was also very smart in positioning and together with enormous speed and power of his shots he surely was one of the best ever Urruguayan players. In his first training with Fiorentina Petrone smashed the ball towards the goal, the ball went over the crossbar and continued to fly till finally breaking the window on the old building located 300 meters from pitch. His shots often left opponents wounded, goalkeepers unconsious and the nets broken.
  • Caps : 28 Games (27 Goals)
  • World Cup Participation : 1930 (1 Games)
  • Professional Score Record : 203 Goals/ 192 Games
  • Club Honours : 2 Times Uruguay Champions
  • International Honours : 2 Times Copa America Winners (1923, 1924)
  • 2 Times Olympic Game Gold Medal (1924, 1928)
  • 1930 FIFA World Cup Winners
  • Individual Achievement : 1 Time Italian Series A Top Scorer
  • 1924 Olympic Game Top Scorer
  • 3 Times Copa America Top Scorer (1923, 1924, 1927)
  • 1924 Copa America Best Player
 
Raees said:
I think people need to read up on Sanchez more. He's being made out to be a George Best when he isn't even a fast dribbling sort of player, he's an intelligent playmaker who possesses good movement and is a goalscorer. More like a Robert Pires/Rivelino style winger but even then that would be giving him too much credit for his dribbling. He's not renowned for his dribbling at all.

That type of wide player is not going to be tearing Orlando a new one, who is one of the fastest CB's Brazil has ever had.

http://www.pesmitidelcalcio.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2446
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The thing is, speed doesn't make someone capable of playing any position outside their comfort zone especially against a player rated 40th South American of the 20th century. Orlando is used to playing on the left side of center defense. Leonel Sanchez lived most of his career on the opposite flank and half space. Orlando is going to have to come very far out, well outside the zone he played his career. Sanchez doesn't have to be George Best to win free kicks like this:

Orlando simply isn't a right back and you are tasking him with that role. He is playing in a zone of the pitch he never really played with only the he is fast claim as evidence that he can handle that role in an all-time draft. However you try to handle Sanchez, you are losing a center defender and leaving only 3 to try to contain Zico-Socrates- Careca with a lot of space. Its going to open up a lot more goal scoring opportunities than I will face.

Your tactic is basically a WM. Mine will play in this game a lot like a 4-2-4. This gives me an inherent tactical advantage as 4-2-4 is what made the WM outdated. The no wide defenders is simply a tactical disadvantage because you are conceding a lot of space against my team. Your defense is simply dragged further out of their natural zones too much. I don't see how you can win the ball back.

I have attackers like Zico, Socrates and Careca who are not just adept at perfectly exploiting that open space, but exploiting that open space together as teammates.
 
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oneniltothearsenal said:
The thing is, speed doesn't make someone capable of playing any position outside their comfort zone especially against a player rated 40th South American of the 20th century. Orlando is used to playing on the left side of center defense. Leonel Sanchez lived most of his career on the opposite flank and half space. Orlando is going to have to come very far out, well outside the zone he played most of his career. Sanchez doesn't have to be George Best to win free kicks like this:

Orlando simply isn't a right back and you are tasking him with that role. He is playing in a zone of the pitch he never really played with only the he is fast claim as evidence that he can handle that role in an all-time draft. However you try to handle Sanchez, you are losing a center defender and leaving only 3 to try to contain Zico-Socrates- Careca with a lot of space. Its going to open up a lot more goal scoring opportunities than I will face.

Your tactic is basically a WM. Mine will play in this game a lot like a 4-2-4. This gives me an inherent tactical advantage as 4-2-4 is what made the WM outdated. The no wide defenders is simply a tactical disadvantage because you are conceding a lot of space against my team. Your defense is simply dragged further out of their natural zones too much. I don't see how you can win the ball back.

I have attackers like Zico, Socrates and Careca who are not just adept at perfectly exploiting that open space, but exploiting that open space together as teammates.
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I disagree because Zico and Careca are your only quick players. Most of your players all operate in central areas - Sanchez included. You have no one in your side to stretch my defence and make me have to defend down the flanks.. so having three central defenders, gives me the advantage.

If you had a Orsi, instead of Sanchez.. I'd be in more trouble because Orlando would have to go out and defend that flank. You don't.

Then you also forget to mention, I have Victor Benitez who will be man marking Zico.. he is super quick, incredible roadrunner of a DM who is perfectly suited to taking on a Zico.. Socrates as great as he is, isn't some attacking phenom who will attack me with pace.. he's a thinking mans footballer, and again if anyone knows how to stop him it would be his Brazilian Team mate Falcao.

So that leaves Sanchez and Carera, the latter is pacey but I have got Ayala at CB, no mug and Sanchez will need to drift into central areas to have an impact and I will have Orlando there who is one of the best readers of the game and very quick.

Not saying you won't score goals, of course you could.. you have some great players but I don't see you scoring more than 2 max in this game. Whereas my attacking quintet has way more potency about it. It has pace, width, flair and proven ability to win the big games.
 
I'd like to know more about Orlando whose role would be to block Leo Sanchez.

Montero is a strong stopper capable to play as a LB so is pretty versatile.
 
Downcast said:
I'd like to know more about Orlando whose role would be to block Leo Sanchez.

Montero is a strong stopper capable to play as a LB so is pretty versatile.
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"In the Mouth I was a versatile player. Of those playing in various positions. I played on the right side, on the left, center and even the steering wheel. Some time later elected me captain of the team. That for me was a surprise. I did not think . a foreign player could get to be captain of a team outside their country so we were three times champions of Argentina, after a long time without titles "(Orlando - Headline Sports Magazine, n.35, June / 1978)
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https://translate.google.co.uk/tran....com/2010/09/orlando-pecanha.html&prev=search

To the great playmaker Didi, Orlando was the best Brazilian player in the World Cup in Sweden. Therefore, no exaggeration to express the view that he was the best centerback in the history of Brazilian football
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ORLANDO PECANHA ...(TIM VICKERY)

Brazilian football lost one of its all-time greats last week when Orlando Peçanha died at the age of 74.

If he had to go, then maybe the forces of destiny and the gods of soccer thought it appropriate to take him on the eve of Carnaval. Perhaps they were trying to make a point, juxtaposing his loss with the start of the country's great party. Because as revelers fill the streets from Rio to Recife, there are many who like to see Brazilian soccer as one giant Carnaval, everyone more concerned with having fun than with the result, in a fabulous land full of skilled strikers and inept defenders.

It is a nonsensical point of view that does a monstrous disservice to those who have played defense for Brazil -- and none has done it better than Orlando Peçanha.

In a low-scoring game like soccer, it is simply not possible to win titles while giving away cheap goals, and the record shows that no one is better at winning titles than Brazil. Statistics reveal that in World Cups very few can better Brazil's defensive record. This is not only a result of the individual ability of the likes of Orlando but also the intense tactical experimentation that occurred in the Brazilian game around the middle of the last century.

It was Brazil that came up with the idea of the back four. The old WM system had space for three defenders -- two fullbacks and a center back (who formed the base of the M). Coming up against superb strikers every week in domestic soccer concentrated the minds of Brazilian coaches, who hit upon the idea of placing another man in the heart of the defense. Now there would always be cover; one would mark and the other would be spare, ready to mop up the danger if his colleague was beaten. And so the modern back four was born.

The Brazilians played the system in Sweden in 1958, the first time they won the World Cup, and still the only time they have won it in Europe. The heart of their defense would quickly become the classic center back pairing. There was big, towering Bellini, the team captain, with few technical flourishes, but highly effective at dealing with the aerial threat. And alongside him there was Orlando.

Excellent in the tackle and blessed with the crucial defender's gift of being able to read the game and sense danger before it appeared, Orlando was made for the role. The 1958 side was perhaps the most stereotypically "Brazilian" of all the country's World Cup-winning teams. The older members of the 1970 side I have spoken to seem to agree that man for man the '58 boys were better. The squad in Sweden could count on the youthfulPele, Garrincha's twisting fullbacks inside and out down the right wing,Didi's pulling the strings in midfield and Nilton Santos' charging forward elegantly from left back. But one of the notable facts of that campaign is that Brazil did not concede a goal until the semifinal. Such defensive solidity permitted the front players to take risks and express themselves.

According to veteran journalist Sergio Cabral, in the opinion of Didi, the brains of that 1958 team, Orlando was Brazil's best player in the World Cup. But Orlando couldn't receive the same praise when Brazil retained its title in Chile four years later. By this time he had left Vasco da Gama in his native Rio and joined Boca Juniors in Buenos Aires. He was an idol in Argentina, but it made not the slightest difference to his international ambitions. Brazil did not select players who were based abroad, and so, much to his regret, Orlando was not included on the squad.

He returned home in time for a last hurrah at the 1966 World Cup in England. A year earlier he left Boca and joined Santos to ensure that he would be eligible for selection. In hindsight, he might have wished he had stayed in Argentina.

It is not a World Cup that Brazil can look back on with any fondness. Orlando, 30 at the time, did not play in the first two matches. But after Brazil was beaten soundly by Hungary in the second, his introduction was one of nine changes made for the final group game against Portugal. With Pele kicked out of the game and opposing striker Eusebio on fire, Brazil lost 3-1 and was eliminated from the tournament.

Some 35 years later, I gently asked Orlando whether he had been too old for the competition. Not a bit, he replied. He was as good as ever, but the team had been undone by chaotic organization. His professional pride was still bruised by the result. In the 30 official games he played for his country, this was the only time he was on the losing side. And in those 30 games, the team conceded just 23 goals.

It is a magnificent record, and it goes to show that in the country of Carnaval the strikers and attacking midfielders might be full of feints and dummies and dance steps of individual inspiration, but there is also a strong defensive tradition of center backs who are just as skilled in their own, less eye-catching arts.
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@Raees Thanks for the answer.

Not so many contributions from the other managers, maybe because they are not Uruguyan and don't have a PhD in tactics.:D
 
Anyone else think Raees team would benefit from Victor Benitez and Falcao swapping sides? From what I've read about Benitez he was a pretty versatile player who was adept in a defensive role as well as midfield (Raees even mentions it in the OP), so he seems like a better fit than Falcao to help out Raees' right side against Sanchez and Marinho.

I'll add that I reckon Raees' left side of Orsi and Recoba could have some success attacking Eyzaguirre.
 
Raees said:
So that leaves Sanchez and Carera, the latter is pacey but I have got Ayala at CB, no mug and Sanchez will need to drift into central areas to have an impact and I will have Orlando there who is one of the best readers of the game and very quick.

Not saying you won't score goals, of course you could.. you have some great players but I don't see you scoring more than 2 max in this game. Whereas my attacking quintet has way more potency about it. It has pace, width, flair and proven ability to win the big games.
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The main difference to me is my attackers are used to playing together with complete fluidity. You have Recoba, Moreno and Orsi all using the same space the way you set it up. That would be the space right in between Marcos, Gilberto, Julio Cesar, Domingos and Eyzaguirre. This plays into a zone between all my players who are comfortable reclaiming the ball and containing the danger.

With my holding midfielders and Julio Cesar I can keep Moreno and Recoba well contained and starved of space much easier. The advantage of having wide defenders that can handle wide attacks much better than 3 CBs in a WM. My defense and holding mids have plenty of strength and pace while the tactical mismatch is going to favor my defense being naturally more suited to contain and negate your WM. Also, 4-2-4 formations frequently got many goals against WM.

Raees said:
I disagree because Zico and Careca are your only quick players. Most of your players all operate in central areas - Sanchez included. You have no one in your side to stretch my defence and make me have to defend down the flanks.. so having three central defenders, gives me the advantage.

If you had a Orsi, instead of Sanchez.. I'd be in more trouble because Orlando would have to go out and defend that flank. You don't.
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I am trying to understand this. You are not going to defend that side and just instruct Orlando to stay in the center? You will leave that entire flank undefended and allow Leonel all that space with his left foot that scored from outside the box against Lev Yashin?

Stretching a defense is not just about speed but about manipulation of space and the ball as well. You are conceding both flanks to me for the most part. That gives me a lot more space to work with while I have the technicians to exploit that space. However you try it, its a mismatch

Then you also forget to mention, I have Victor Benitez who will be man marking Zico.. he is super quick, incredible roadrunner of a DM who is perfectly suited to taking on a Zico.. Socrates as great as he is, isn't some attacking phenom who will attack me with pace.. he's a thinking mans footballer, and again if anyone knows how to stop him it would be his Brazilian Team mate Falcao.
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For what its worth, Benitez started that '63 Cup final for Milan as the right side centre half in a 2-3-5 , basically the position R. Andrade played for Uruguay in 1950. You have him man marking Zico on the opposite side than where he played the final that gives him most of his reputation. Again this is much more in Zico's comfort zone than Benitez'. Benitez will get dragged out to the other flank and all over the pitch. That will open up a huge amount of space in the center that Socrates and Careca can definitely exploit.

Socrates was definitely quick enough in his prime. Not everything comes down to who is the absolute fastest. You can't just reduce tactics to a footrace. Fluidly moving with Zico and Careca who he has great team chemistry. And the vision and passing technique to unlock the defense.

Also Socrates was an attacking phenom. Pele said he plays better backwards than most do forwards. That counts as an attacking phenom for me (172 goals in 297 matches for Corinthians plus assists and dictating play). Just because he'd find much joy cutting through a WM with only one natural holding mid. He is another player capable of scoring amazing goals from outside the box.

'The ball is faster than any player' ;)





Careca is going to be dragging your other two center defenders out of position opening up a lot of space, especially since you are saying Benitez is going to man mark Zico. Its going to consistently create open space like he did in this match 4-1 win over Saachi's Milan, a defensive powerhouse. If you look at the goals, Careca is great at drawing defenders out of position as well as scoring on his own.

 
Raees said:
Petrone was also very smart in positioning and together with enormous speed and power of his shots he surely was one of the best ever Urruguayan players. In his first training with Fiorentina Petrone smashed the ball towards the goal, the ball went over the crossbar and continued to fly till finally breaking the window on the old building located 300 meters from pitch. His shots often left opponents wounded, goalkeepers unconsious and the nets broken.
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I'm smelling bullshit with this one. Unless this is his right peg:

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This is a close one but I'm going Raees for a classic 4-3 win. His narrow back three won't be that exposed due to the lack of natural width on onenil's side. That said Recoba is in an odd position but Benitez and Falcao will be fine shielding the back three saying he only has one DM underestimates Falcao's defensive abilities.

I really like the Zico, Socrates and Careca trio it's just you've come up against a somehwat left-field approach which I can see working well against you.
 
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