The Americas Draft, R1: EAP/Sjor vs DavidG 7-5

Considering players at their peak, who will win the match?

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Chesterlestreet

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TEAM EAP/SJOR

Formation:
3-2-5

Defence: Ivan Cordoba - Hugo De Leon - Djalma Santos

Hugo De Leon is a three times Libertadores and Intercontinental Cup winning captain and a bonafide gremio Legend. He was one of the earliest foreign player to succeed in Brazil. A ball playing centre back in modern terms, he combined the Uruguayan force football with Brazilian flair and won titles with Gremio, Nacional and River Plate. Unafraid to step out and tackle or physically impose on opposition centre back, he was a born fighter and natural leader in heart of the defence.

Ivan Cordoba was a fast, energetic and athletic defender comfortable at center or left of the defence. He had pace, stamina, timing, man-marking ability and leadership skills and will be a solid defence against any opponent.

Djalma Santos needs no introduction. One of Brazil's greatest ever defenders also comfortable center and wide out.

Defensive Midfield: Obdulio Varela - Marcos Senna

Varela and Senna make for a dynamic shield in front of the defence.

Varela is one of the best DMs in this draft very capable in box to box role too. Though Ghiggia scored the all important goal in Maracanazo, it was Varela's strict marshaling of the defence that enabled Uruguay to stay in the game and pull out the win. A classic DM who can drop into defence, he was the rallying point for the Uruguayan team and a bonafide legend.

He's partnered by Marcos Senna, one of the best holding midfielders of his era. Varela's physicality and Senna's passing range and ability to dictate the pace of the game makes for a solid shield that is comfortable on the ball and can get the ball out to the front quickly.

Attacking Midfield / Inside Forwards: Pedro Rocha and Angelilo

Pedro Rocha is one of Uruguay's greatest footballers having represented them in 4 world cups. Exquisitely skillful he is as competent as a striker as he was a midfield link man. He moved with a casual and sinuous grace, at his best seeming to drift past opponents at will, displaying control, imagination and precision at the creative core of the team. There was dynamite as well as silk in the Rocha repertoire, and he was capable of erupting suddenly and explosively, delivering powerful shots with either foot.

Angelilo is a Inside Forward par excellance, Inter's captain and top scorer when he was there. Part of the Trio of Death (with Sivori and Maschio) known for their clinical finishing. He started off as a midfielder and covered to striker by Guillermo Stabile and played alongside Sivori. Adept in dropping back to link with midfield and create as well as to complete in the box, he was a complete player.

Outside / Centre Forwards: Neymar - Tostao - Jair da Costa

Neymar needs no introduction. Pace, dribbling, creating, finishing he's placed where he's comfortable and can do the most damage.

At his prime one of the best players in the world, Tostao's an intelligent player who's comfortable scoring as well we dropping back to create. Started his career as a Centre Midfielder he ended his reign at Cruzeiro with 249 goals, still the highest goalscorer there. Famous in 1970 WC for interchanging gameplay with Pele, here he's surrounded by players who can feed him and play off his creativity.

Part of Herrera's legendary Grande Inter team, Jair da Costa was a silky Right Outside Forward who can score and hold a flank on his own. He was a wide forward who was frequently asked to drop back to support midfield/defence and was an one man flank with Burgnich not venturing forward often. Here he can replicate the same partnership with Djalma.

Playing Style:

A compact 3 man defence. Both Cordoba and Djalma have operated in wide roles and will be comfortable with incoming threats from flanks. Hugo De Leon will spearhead the line with supporting shield of Varela and Senna ahead of him.

Once ball is recovered Varela's box-to-box abilities and Senna's passing enables smooth and quick transition to attack.

Both Rocha and Angelilo are comfortable dropping deep and linking with midfield. They'll alternate and connect with midfield and have a lethal trio to feed to. Neymar and Jair being comfortable goal scorers and Tostao dropping back to cause confusion it'll be a flexible and dynamic attack that'll cause problems to any defence

Your-teamaqer435431-formation-tactics.png
 


TEAM DAVIDG

Formation: 4-3-1-2 ( Similar to Brazil 2002 World cup winning side)

Style of play: Tiki taka and freedom of expression in The final third. With Michele Andreolo and Clodoaldo both being extremely comfortable on the ball, They will help dictate the play be it finding the runs on the flanks from Cafu and Sorin or popping the ball into the enigmatic Magico Gonzalez who can weave his Ronaldinho levels of magic. With two full backs both fit and adept enough at covering the flanks, there will be plenty of crosses flying in, with Rivaldo most likely to pull back to the edge of the box for cut-backs and unleash his All time great left foot.

Individual Instructions and mini profile:

GK- Keylor Navas. Champions league winner in his first proper full season between the sticks for Real Madrid. Definitely owed a few apologies from people at Madrid who didn't think he could hold a candle to De Gea.

RB- Cafu. 2x World cup winner and arguably the greatest right back of all time. One of the fittest players in the draft and capable of getting up and down for 90 minutes week in week out. He will be expected to play like we all know Cafu can play in this game.

CB: Aldair. Beside his buddy Cafu, like it was for Roma and Brazil, for whom he won the world cup in 1994. Had his number retired at Roma due to his contributions to the club. Calming influence with great speed and comfortable on the ball, not expecting anything fancy from him in this game, he will nullify as much of the opposition attack as he can and distribute the ball to Clodoaldo when possible.

CB: Thiago Silva. We all know what happened to Brazil's defence without him in 2014. Alongside Diego Godin for me in terms of the best Central defender in world football at the moment. Next to Aldair, he will keep a nice tight line and not push up too high, although both of them have the pace to recover should the ball end up in behind them.

LB: Juan Pablo Sorin. Capable of playing anywhere in defence or midfield, Sorin brings industry to the left hand side. He will be a bit more conservative with his forward runs than Cafu, however with my midfielders being comfortable on the ball and able to retain it well, he will always present an out-ball to the left hand side and will occasionally venture forward and in behind the opposition defence, where he can be potentially devastating in the air.

DM: Leonel Alvarez- On his day one of the purest defensive midfielders of all time. He was nigh on impossible to get past, and in this game he is playing the "Kante role", and consistently holding his defensive position when Cafu and Sorin make their way forward.

CM: Clodoaldo- A world cup winner and truly incredible ball-playing midfielder. His passage of play in the build-up to Carlos Alberto's famous 1970 final goal is what I expect from him in this game- excellent ball retention, impeccable dribbling and always finding his man with his pass. He will occasionally venture forward to help dictate the play in the final third, and i expect him to form am excellent partnership with Cafu in this side. With the oppositions left side no doubt wary of the threat of Cafu, Clodoaldo can keep the opposition guessing all day as to whether he will give Cafu the ball, or look as if he's going to give him it then dribble into space where he can make things happen.

CM: Michele Andreolo- World cup winner with Italy and Copa America winner with Uruguay, Andreolo was one of the better midfielders of his time, and one of the catalysts for the success of Bologna in the earlier years of Serie A ( 4 titles in 6 years). Andreolo himself said " The penalty area is too small to me, in midfield you breathe better" and as such he will not be venturing too far forward, sitting deeper with Alvarez and letting the more technical players do their thing.

AM: Magico Gonzalez. Named by Diego Maradona as one of the greatest players he has ever seen, " Magico" is one of the BEST player's you've never heard about. Despite his prodigious talent, Gonzalez was very vocal about preferring the nightlife of Cadiz, where he had his most successful period. On form, He is best compared to Ronaldinho, and he will be aiming to replicate the role R10 played throughout the 2002 world cup, dribbling for fun and dictating play in the final third. A handful for anyone.

SS: Rivaldo. World cup winner, and an all time great for Brazil with one of the most lethal left foots in the history of the game. Rivaldo will be mixing up his game, dropping deep, unleashing shots, using his strength in the box to get on the end of Cafu/ Sorin Crosses, dribbling, and generally causing havoc amongst the opposition defence. He has a free role in this side, and will pop up all over the place.

ST: Falcao. Prior to his Monaco move, Falcao was rated as one of the best centre forwards in the world by most people. Lethal in the air, expert at one-on ones, fantastic at link up play and capable of moments of brilliance, it is such a shame that we never got to see the best of him at Old Trafford. in his day, undeniably world class number 9.
 
Really interesting tactical battle here. Since I landed La Maquinha in the remake draft I've grown really fond of these 3-2-5 formations. I had originally considered a 5-4-1 hybrid which in hindsight would have been wrong as it could have effectively turned into attack v defence in favour of EAP/SJOR the whole game. Both teams are going to be devastating on the counter attack here , so thank god for cafus fitness and sorins industry , they really will be up and down the whole game. My midfield 3 is defensive minded enough that I don't see me being outnumbered.

Probably not gonna be able to comment too much on this but keen to see how this goes , very close for me.
 
This is for anyone on the forum reading who never really heard of Magico Gonzalez, one of the finer player complications in YouTube , some of the elasticos :drool:

 
On to the game...

I think we have a big advantage tactically here:

- Opponent's centralized approach ensures that the game will be played right in front of my compact defence. It'll be a crowded area and Magico will be sharing the space with Varela and Senna, which will hamper his gameplay to a great extent.

- His team creativity is channeled mostly through Magico and with him in same space as Varela/Senna, it'd not be that effective. Ofc, he can depend on crosses from fullbacks, but that leaves him vulnerable on the counter, considering I have 5 players upfront. Or Andreolo connecting with Rivaldo, but again those are not as effective without support from Magico. Bar Magico, his midfield lacks the creativity.
 
good luck to you as well @DavidG

Nice team, love this Magico guy at first glance and its always nice to see a Tiki Taka team...but the thing with Tiki Taka you have to get it spot on. I have 2 question marks and one that i know is not suited. That one is Falcao, i agree with you that he was the best number 9 in his prime but for Tiki Taka system you wont choose a number 9 but to be honest you can make it work with him in the team, its a minor issue but still an issue for me at least.
As for question marks, from you own description Andreolo doesnt sound like a Tiki Taka type of player and im not sure if Leonel Alvarez is a good fit because i dont know enough about him, this in the key position/role in your team and that guy in Busquets role needs to be a great match because without him there is no Tiki Taka. A classic DM or a player like Kante or even Kante himself is not a good match.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
On to the game...

I think we have a big advantage tactically here:

- Opponent's centralized approach ensures that the game will be played right in front of my compact defence. It'll be a crowded area and Magico will be sharing the space with Varela and Senna, which will hamper his gameplay to a great extent.

- His team creativity is channeled mostly through Magico and with him in same space as Varela/Senna, it'd not be that effective. Ofc, he can depend on crosses from fullbacks, but that leaves him vulnerable on the counter, considering I have 5 players upfront. Or Andreolo connecting with Rivaldo, but again those are not as effective without support from Magico. Bar Magico, his midfield lacks the creativity.
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You could argue I have a big advantage tactically too ( and obviously I to argue it) in transition , Cafu and sorin are going to cause your team nightmares. And Magico is not the only creative outlet here , I've mentioned that Rivaldo has a free role, and clodoaldo will also add creativity. To me , tiki take means comfortable on the ball , and lots of triangles developing for players to play around and I definitely have that here, I'm not trying to replicate the Spain 2010 set-up or Guardiolas Barcelona, it's just a general term for keeping the ball with nice quick passes and incisive , effective dribbling.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
On to the game...

I think we have a big advantage tactically here:

- Opponent's centralized approach ensures that the game will be played right in front of my compact defence. It'll be a crowded area and Magico will be sharing the space with Varela and Senna, which will hamper his gameplay to a great extent.
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Agreed, I think you get away with a back three without wing-backs because of the narrowness of the opposition - so tactically it's a good match-up for your team.

- His team creativity is channeled mostly through Magico and with him in same space as Varela/Senna, it'd not be that effective. Ofc, he can depend on crosses from fullbacks, but that leaves him vulnerable on the counter, considering I have 5 players upfront. Or Andreolo connecting with Rivaldo, but again those are not as effective without support from Magico. Bar Magico, his midfield lacks the creativity.
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If you use the Brazil 2002 3-5-2 model that DavidG refers to, they also lacked creativity - all the centre-backs and centre-midfielders were there to be solid and give the ball to the proper talent up the park or out wide. And it worked very well.
 
Gio said:
If you use the Brazil 2002 3-5-2 model that DavidG refers to, they also lacked creativity - all the centre-backs and centre-midfielders were there to be solid and give the ball to the proper talent up the park or out wide. And it worked very well.
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I'm not questioning the formation per se...just specifically in respect to players he sports and against my team. Brazil '02 mostly sported a back 3 with Lucio-Edmilson-Roque Junior, which game Carlos and Cafu to effectively function as midfielders in a 3-5-2 (more like 3-4-3). Not a standard back 4 here. Also Falcao here is a far more limited player and requires more support than Fenomeno. He'd not hold the defence or create much on his own.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I'm not questioning the formation per se...just specifically in respect to players he sports and against my team. Brazil '02 mostly sported a back 3 with Lucio-Edmilson-Roque Junior, which game Carlos and Cafu to effectively function as midfielders in a 3-5-2 (more like 3-4-3). Not a standard back 4 here. Also Falcao here is a far more limited player and requires more support than Fenomeno. He'd not hold the defence or create much on his own.
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Do we really judge the team based on its ability to resemble another team, though? Surely the '02 side is just a rough blueprint, not a binding principle by which DG's team lives or dies.

This is relatively even for me -- the point Gio makes about formation is one I agree with. The back three works because of the diamond formation on the other side. I'm not sure who wins, though. I like the balance DG's team has overall. Will take my time with this one.
 


Put this together to illustrate that it's not just a centrally focussed attack i have here. The picture shows where my players would likely be in attacking positions ( based on EAP/Sjor tactics and instructions) and the arrows illustrate their mentality when they lose the ball. I think Senna is struggling to deal with some of the pace on his side.

NOTE: This is not me saying that it would definitely pan out the way I have it in the graphic, it just illustrates that my side will have width to it in attack, and the ability of both those full backs to recover defensively really shouldn't be up for debate.

Also worth noting that although comfortable in the positions they are being asked to play here, Djalma was better as an out and out right back and Cordoba played more often on the right side of defence. Ivan Zamorano only played with Cordoba for one year at Inter, but still named him as his right back in his all time XI of players he played with. http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ivan-zamorano-perfect-xi
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Do we really judge the team based on its ability to resemble another team, though? Surely the '02 side is just a rough blueprint, not a binding principle by which DG's team lives or dies.

This is relatively even for me -- the point Gio makes about formation is one I agree with. The back three works because of the diamond formation on the other side. I'm not sure who wins, though. I like the balance DG's team has overall. Will take my time with this one.
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Ofc not. But when you use another team for blueprint, it's normal to point out the deficiencies that worked for the original team but may not in your recreation. For me, the back 3 was a crucial part of the 2002 side and made it tick which is lacking in his current side and I was just pointing that difference out. But then I digress, this should not be about comparison to 2002 side, but against each other.

As for balance, I don't see any major flaws in either of the teams. Both are perfectly functional. Comments are on about how the game might get played out.
 


An example of Falcao's hold up and link up play, at a pivotal point against a great side.
 
And this one of my favourite Goals of his showcasing his ability to do it on his own. God if we could have had him in this kind of form at OT :(

 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Ofc not. But when you use another team for blueprint, it's normal to point out the deficiencies that worked for the original team but may not in your recreation. For me, the back 3 was a crucial part of the 2002 side and made it tick which is lacking in his current side and I was just pointing that difference out. But then I digress, this should not be about comparison to 2002 side, but against each other.

As for balance, I don't see any major flaws in either of the teams. Both are perfectly functional. Comments are on about how the game might get played out.
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Fair points all round.
 
Big fan of diamonds (as is Edgar with Christmas trees :D) like Cafu and Aldair in that formation especially Cafu giving width and his attacking contribution.

I also like the Andreolo/Clodoaldo combo in CM and Rivaldo in free role. However - this formation plays in the hands of EAP/Sjor. The main threat is central, although Sorin/Rivaldo is an excellent flank in attacking sense and pretty fun to watch. EAP/S are well equipped to the threat with Varela/Senna sitting in front of the 3 defenders.

I love the EAP/Sjor formation and execution tho - Djalma is in his RCB role which fits very well. Like de Leon and Cordoba in their roles and Tostao/Neymar/Jair is a great attacking line.

A fun game IMO with lots of goals in it but I can see EAP/Sjor taking this one outscoring the opposition.
 
The link-up play was probably the only real issue with the peak Falcao, can't agree with the "fantastic" label.

Will need to read up more about De Leon, Angelilo and Andreolo before making the decision.

And Magico is one of the players that I just can't rate, I don't know whenever I'm under- or overrating him. Astonishing talent, but a very average career.
 
Despite the argument that David G is very narrow I doubt how well Neymar will play as an outside left without the support of a full-back bombing forward - he's really a wide-forward who's probably better suited to the inside forward role in this set-up. It's hardly decisive as Jair will provide genuine width and Sorin was never the best defensively.
 
Going off the top of my head here but I think Andreolo might be the only player to win the copa america and the world cup with countries from different continents?
 
DavidG said:
Going off the top of my head here but I think Andreolo might be the only player to win the copa america and the world cup with countries from different continents?
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Monti, Orsi - just off the top of my head

edit: Guaita also
 
Physiocrat said:
Despite the argument that David G is very narrow I doubt how well Neymar will play as an outside left without the support of a full-back bombing forward - he's really a wide-forward who's probably better suited to the inside forward role in this set-up. It's hardly decisive as Jair will provide genuine width and Sorin was never the best defensively.
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Thats why we paired him with Rocha on that left side and not the pure IF like we did on the opposite side. Both Neymar and Rocha will interchange between the roles as they are both equally good at creating and making off the ball runs.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I think we have a big advantage tactically here:

- Opponent's centralized approach ensures that the game will be played right in front of my compact defence. It'll be a crowded area and Magico will be sharing the space with Varela and Senna, which will hamper his gameplay to a great extent.
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On paper it may look like that but it still is a problem given when he's on attack your backline will need tremendous support from your midfield four especially out wide against his wingbacks both of whom are well known for their attacking forays. Also with Rivaldo in a free role with the ability to peel wide and drag Djalma out of his position leaving quite a bit of room in the middle. Normally in this setup you'd need your wingers to perform defensive duties out wide specially against opposition wingbacks here but I can't see someone like Neymar tracking Cafu back and that would be a problem in my opinion. Your left side is quite weak defensively - I've never rated Cordoba highly as a defender - as good as his athletic qualities were just being quick doesn't make you a top defender and I can see a prime Falcao turning him over like Sheva used to back in the day, with Cafu dominating that flank with little resistance.
 
Another one I really need a little more time to think on. For me I'd like to know a little more from EAP/Sjor on Angelilo. That front 5 seems very attacking focused and Angelilo was a player I know less than most in the draft.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Another one I really need a little more time to think on. For me I'd like to know a little more from EAP/Sjor on Angelilo. That front 5 seems very attacking focused and Angelilo was a player I know less than most in the draft.
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I watched a video of him where he scored 33 goals in 33 games for inter ( 1959) and in the beginning of the video he seems to be more of an actual striker than the position EAP/ Sjor have him in here, but the last few goals he pretty much operates in the exact space he appears to be in for this game.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Another one I really need a little more time to think on. For me I'd like to know a little more from EAP/Sjor on Angelilo. That front 5 seems very attacking focused and Angelilo was a player I know less than most in the draft.
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I went through 4, 5 articles about him and in the end there really isnt anything interesting in them, most cover his fallout with Helenio Herrera at Inter and his record season before that. Everything that is interesting you can pretty much find on wiki....
In official tournaments, Angelillo played 11 matches and scored 11 goals for the Argentina national team. During the 1957 South American Championship that Argentina won, Angelillo was tied for the second-most goals in the tournament, with eight in six matches, scoring in all matches but the last one against Peru. Upon their arrival in Italy, Angelillo and his countrymen [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Sivori']Omar Sivori and Humberto Maschio acquired the nickname The Angels with Dirty Faces (an ironic reference to the then-celebrated Angels with Dirty Faces movie), on account of their typically South American colour and flair. They were also known as The Trio of Death because of their clinical finishing.[/URL]
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In the 1958–59 Serie A season, Angelillo scored 33 goals in 33 matches, being the tournament's top scorer. His goal total was the highest since Gunnar Nordahl had scored 34 in the 1950–51 Serie A season, and no player since has scored as many goals in a Serie A season; the only player since Angelillo to break the 30 goal barrier was Luca Toni, who scored 31 goals during the 2005–06 Serie A season.
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Peak years:
1956------Boca------29---------14
1957------Boca-------5----------2
1957-58--Inter------34---------16
1958-59--Inter------33---------33
1959-60--Inter------31---------11
1960-61--Inter------15----------8
1961-62--Roma----24----------10
 
Aldo said:
On paper it may look like that but it still is a problem given when he's on attack your backline will need tremendous support from your midfield four especially out wide against his wingbacks both of whom are well known for their attacking forays. Also with Rivaldo in a free role with the ability to peel wide and drag Djalma out of his position leaving quite a bit of room in the middle. Normally in this setup you'd need your wingers to perform defensive duties out wide specially against opposition wingbacks here but I can't see someone like Neymar tracking Cafu back and that would be a problem in my opinion. Your left side is quite weak defensively - I've never rated Cordoba highly as a defender - as good as his athletic qualities were just being quick doesn't make you a top defender and I can see a prime Falcao turning him over like Sheva used to back in the day, with Cafu dominating that flank with little resistance.
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Ofc, I have Varela there for the exact reason. As I mention in OP, he was a master in marshalling the defence for Uruguay against the Brazilians and kept them in the game till they could grab one on their own. Cordoba and Djalma are comfortable out wide and when Varela drops back in support, I doubt there'll be any weakness to exploit. On the flip side, I'd say it also makes him vulnerable on the counter, a quick pass from Senna to Rocha and he has abundance of lethal forwards at his disposal. I still fancy Jair to come ahead of Sorin.

Why would Neymar want to track Cafu back? He's not a wide midfielder and it's not his job. He'll utilize the space left behind Cafu to receive pass on the counter. Back 3 + Varela/Senna should be sufficient to handle the attack.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
Thats why we paired him with Rocha on that left side and not the pure IF like we did on the opposite side. Both Neymar and Rocha will interchange between the roles as they are both equally good at creating and making off the ball runs.
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From the gifs and the videos though Rocha seems a pretty central player.
 
I went for DavidG but I am still open to potential changes. I just feel EAP/Sjor build-up seems very dependent on Rocha and Angelilo dropping deeper and that leads to a more predictable build-up that is easier to contain perhaps.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
I went for DavidG but I am still open to potential changes. I just feel EAP/Sjor build-up seems very dependent on Rocha and Angelilo dropping deeper and that leads to a more predictable build-up that is easier to contain perhaps.
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Rocha is considered a all time great uruguayan player for his ability to do just that. Couple of points for you to consider:

My team has multiple ways to bring the ball forward. Both Rocha and/or Angelilo can drop back. Or it could even be Tostao who played an exact similar role with with Pele to great success. Both Varela and Senna are great in getting the ball forward quickly too. Jair was a one-man flank for Grande Inter and regularly dropped back to get the ball from the midfield and power through. All in my forward line are lethal goal scorers too.

On the flip side, David needs Magiko to do a #10 role and with him occupied by by DMs. Clodoaldo and Andreolo are good on the ball, but neither can run the game without Magicko. He needs Cafu to bring the bite back on his attack, but then with De Leon, I can physically match whatever falcao can throw his head at.

I also feel that Falcao lacks the link up dynamism to bring others into play. Too much work for Rivaldo to in a crowded area around my box.
 
DavidG said:


Put this together to illustrate that it's not just a centrally focussed attack i have here. The picture shows where my players would likely be in attacking positions ( based on EAP/Sjor tactics and instructions) and the arrows illustrate their mentality when they lose the ball. I think Senna is struggling to deal with some of the pace on his side.

NOTE: This is not me saying that it would definitely pan out the way I have it in the graphic, it just illustrates that my side will have width to it in attack, and the ability of both those full backs to recover defensively really shouldn't be up for debate.

Also worth noting that although comfortable in the positions they are being asked to play here, Djalma was better as an out and out right back and Cordoba played more often on the right side of defence. Ivan Zamorano only played with Cordoba for one year at Inter, but still named him as his right back in his all time XI of players he played with. http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ivan-zamorano-perfect-xi
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Both of your fullbacks are going forward at the same time?
 
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