Pele 125 is more of a political statement than a pure football players list.
The All-time Auction Draft
- Thread starter Annahnomoss
- Start date
Aye. Pele's list is pish.*
*unless he's bigging up Zizinho, in which case his word is gospel.
ADD YOUR MATCH DATE TO THE LIST:
Monday, 25th May
Skizzo vs chrisg11
green_smiley vs berbasloth4
Tuesday, 26th May
Aldo vs Marty1968
Crappy vs Sjor
Thursday, 28th May
EAP vs Raees
Monday, 25th May
Skizzo vs chrisg11
green_smiley vs berbasloth4
Tuesday, 26th May
Aldo vs Marty1968
Crappy vs Sjor
Thursday, 28th May
EAP vs Raees
Had literally never heard of it until about two weeks ago. I don't really pay much attention to rankings TBH. The relative ranking of one player or another is probably about the last thing I would look into.
As I mentioned elsewhere, the delta between these players is usually 10%, 30% tops, usually minor nuances, and it really depends on the tactics deployed, teammates, etc. E.g. I would "rank" Schnellinger highest of those German leftbacks if deployed next to someone like Passarella. But then you look at MDFC and he has a proven pair in Vierchowod-Ferrara plus, guess what? Briegel, who also played alongside Vierchowod at Sampdoria. I've no idea how someone like -say- Camacho ranks relative to Briegel, but there's no doubt in my mind I'd play Briegel there ahead of Camacho.
So yeah, feck rankings.
It's really great because they list some forgotten greats there, like Erico, for example, of whom I first read there and just then made a research on him for myself. In terms of the actual ratings it's useless, because it's not the math, it's football.
Plus we have no way of verifying how much any of these guys know their stuff. To be fair most professional pundits are dodgy let alone going on the word of a random from the internet.. it is a good source though especially if you are a beginner like I am to the drafting stuff, great way to find out about lesser known players. It will come down to tactical fit as you said, the margins are very tight in a draft of this calibre. You can't really bluff your way through and make over-exaggerated claims.. everyone is proven here.
It's why I'd find it difficult to rank the German full-backs, as characteristically they are very different and each may have a case for being the best fit in certain arrangements.
Yeah, that's the only use I ever found from looking at them, going "wait, who the hell is that?" and checking him up.
@Annahnomoss @Skizzo Can we move our game to Wednesday please? I'm not going to be back until then so I can't do my write up.
Guys some amazing teams. Loving @Šjor Bepo @Cal? from a glance.
Aye, that definitely suits me better.@Edgar Allan Pillow .. have you done your write up, would you be prepared to start earlier than Thursday?
Everything of mine is in ready ready when you are @green_smiley
Ready
You need to add the three year peaks to all yours players mate, the rest of the post is ready to use?
Yeah.. just added the years
Waiting for answers from the admins whether or not I should tag them or get the posting rights of polls. Then we shall play draft gentlemen.
When?
I think @Damien can temporarily grant you permissions to create polls till the draft is going on?
Also, while on the subject, I seem to have the permission to add polls to threads I've created, though I don't see that option while creating a thread. I guess you might wanna remove that as I believe we are not supposed to have that either.
Also, while on the subject, I seem to have the permission to add polls to threads I've created, though I don't see that option while creating a thread. I guess you might wanna remove that as I believe we are not supposed to have that either.
I've sent mine in so whenever you want mate, down to you.. even today or whatever.
@Annahnomoss if you wanna start our game instead of the cancelled one, we both are ok with it. Start away!
It will start in a while!
Sure and don't worry I'll just respond when you're posting.
László Kubala
In January 1950, Kubala moved to Cinecitta in Italy, where he and Daučík formed a team known as ‘Hungaria’, consisting of fellow refugees. Later, a movie was made, entitled Kubala: The Stars Search of Peace. The story surrounded Kubala’s adversities before arriving in Spain. In one of his lines, he said, “That’s when I learned that in Spain I had found peace”. (Soccer in Spain: Politics, Literature, and Film by Timothy J. Ashton, Scarecrow Press, 2013)
That summer, ‘Hungaria’ embarked on a tour of Spain to play a series of friendlies against a Spain XI, Madrid XI and RCD Espanyol. It was in one of those matches that Kubala grabbed the attention of both Real Madrid, who immediately offered him a contract, and FC Barcelona’s chief scout, Josep Samitier.
Events surrounding Kubala’s signing are intriguing. It is believed that in 1950, while on a train with Kubala, Samitier deceived the intoxicated player into believing that he was heading for Madrid, when instead, he was Barcelona-bound! By the time Kubala reached his destination, he was sober and ready to negotiate. Whilst flashing Real Madrid’s drafted contract, he enticed Barcelona to match it. Barça exceeded his expectations – not only did they make him the highest-earning player in the club’s history, but Daučík would be coach. Some thought of the signing as trickery; others felt it was nifty business.
Kubala signed with Barcelona on June 15th 1950, but could not play until his FIFA ban was lifted the following year. In the interim, though, he was able to partake in friendlies.
Kubala, in his role as a modern attacking midfielder, introduced innovative football techniques, fuelled with his enthralling tricks, defence-ripping through-balls and toxic shots. He was also one of the greatest free-kick specialists around. In Barca: A People’s Passion (reissued) by Jimmy Burns (Bloomsbury, 2009), Burns described the player as someone who “brought a combination of skills that the club had until then rarely seen. He was quick on and off the ball, demonstrated extraordinary control when dribbling, showed an unrivalled vision and was always accurate in shooting and deadfalls.” Above all this, “it was around Kubala’s charisma and footballing skills that Barça overcame its post-war loss of confidence and shattered organisation, developing one of its strongest and most successful teams.”
Kubala and Camp Nou
During this period of immense success, the Barcelona grounds of Les Corts, which had an eventual capacity of 60,000 spectators, could no longer satisfy the demands of ‘Kubalamania’. As fans poured into the stadium, Barça was outgrowing it. The Hungarian’s arrival was deemed to be the motivating factor behind the Camp Nou coming into existence.
The Hungarian’s decade at the club (1951-’61), in which he played 329 games and scored 256 goals, resulted in: 4 league titles; 5 Copa del Generalísimo, 2 Inter-Cities Fairs Cups; 2 Copa Eva Duarte; and a Latin Cup. And the cherry on the cake…a tally of 14 hat-tricks!
He was voted as the best Barça player of all-time by the fans in the club’s centenary year in 1999.
In January 1950, Kubala moved to Cinecitta in Italy, where he and Daučík formed a team known as ‘Hungaria’, consisting of fellow refugees. Later, a movie was made, entitled Kubala: The Stars Search of Peace. The story surrounded Kubala’s adversities before arriving in Spain. In one of his lines, he said, “That’s when I learned that in Spain I had found peace”. (Soccer in Spain: Politics, Literature, and Film by Timothy J. Ashton, Scarecrow Press, 2013)
That summer, ‘Hungaria’ embarked on a tour of Spain to play a series of friendlies against a Spain XI, Madrid XI and RCD Espanyol. It was in one of those matches that Kubala grabbed the attention of both Real Madrid, who immediately offered him a contract, and FC Barcelona’s chief scout, Josep Samitier.
Events surrounding Kubala’s signing are intriguing. It is believed that in 1950, while on a train with Kubala, Samitier deceived the intoxicated player into believing that he was heading for Madrid, when instead, he was Barcelona-bound! By the time Kubala reached his destination, he was sober and ready to negotiate. Whilst flashing Real Madrid’s drafted contract, he enticed Barcelona to match it. Barça exceeded his expectations – not only did they make him the highest-earning player in the club’s history, but Daučík would be coach. Some thought of the signing as trickery; others felt it was nifty business.
Kubala signed with Barcelona on June 15th 1950, but could not play until his FIFA ban was lifted the following year. In the interim, though, he was able to partake in friendlies.
Kubala, in his role as a modern attacking midfielder, introduced innovative football techniques, fuelled with his enthralling tricks, defence-ripping through-balls and toxic shots. He was also one of the greatest free-kick specialists around. In Barca: A People’s Passion (reissued) by Jimmy Burns (Bloomsbury, 2009), Burns described the player as someone who “brought a combination of skills that the club had until then rarely seen. He was quick on and off the ball, demonstrated extraordinary control when dribbling, showed an unrivalled vision and was always accurate in shooting and deadfalls.” Above all this, “it was around Kubala’s charisma and footballing skills that Barça overcame its post-war loss of confidence and shattered organisation, developing one of its strongest and most successful teams.”
Kubala and Camp Nou
During this period of immense success, the Barcelona grounds of Les Corts, which had an eventual capacity of 60,000 spectators, could no longer satisfy the demands of ‘Kubalamania’. As fans poured into the stadium, Barça was outgrowing it. The Hungarian’s arrival was deemed to be the motivating factor behind the Camp Nou coming into existence.
The Hungarian’s decade at the club (1951-’61), in which he played 329 games and scored 256 goals, resulted in: 4 league titles; 5 Copa del Generalísimo, 2 Inter-Cities Fairs Cups; 2 Copa Eva Duarte; and a Latin Cup. And the cherry on the cake…a tally of 14 hat-tricks!
He was voted as the best Barça player of all-time by the fans in the club’s centenary year in 1999.
József Bozsik
Arguably the finest deep lying playmaker in football history was Hungary’s stellar right-half, Jozsef Bozsik. When the Magical Magyars are fondly remembered, it is often for the goalscoring exploits of Sandor Kocsis, the tactical innovations of Peter Palotas and Nandor Hidegkuti, and the all round brilliance of Ferenc Puskas. The result is that the metronomic qualities of Bozsik are frequently overlooked.
Given his lack of goalscoring prowess and the limited availability of footage it is perhaps inevitable that the name of Bozsik has largely been forgotten. Yet there are few historical players who would have been more valued in the modern game. For Bozsik possessed the gift that is the most valued in contemporary football and the hardest to find, that of time. He had the ability and composure to wait for the right option and to execute what few others could even see. In an era where such qualities are at a premium, Bozsik would have been peerless.
Style of Play
By the stage that he made his debut for the national team it was apparent that Bozsik’s decision making was one of the central strengths to his game. Not only was he able to spot the right pass at the right moment, his technique was impeccable. The youngster possessed a range of passing that allowed him to find distant targets, but he was also happy to play the simple ball if it meant retaining possession. Furthermore, he was almost impossible to dispossess as he shielded the ball so well from opponents.
Despite the arrival of the other great players at Honved, the pair of Bozsik and Puskas remained central to the team’s success. When Bozsik received the ball in his right-half position, his first thought was to try and play a cross-field diagonal pass to find Puskas at his typical inside-left. The source of so many of the goals scored by Puskas was this searching and unerring pass.
(For Hungary) With Hidegkuti pulling players out of their natural positions, space was constantly available to Bozsik. Given his ability to choose the right pass when placed under even the greatest pressure, he was in his element when allowed free reign.
Eventful Performances
Following Bozsik’s debut for Hungary in 1947 they set off on a run of results which saw them win ten of their next 14 games, including three consecutive 5-0 victories over Bulgaria, Sweden and Czechoslovakia. A 5-3 defeat away against Austria was a setback, but they immediately resumed their winning sequence. By the time they reached the 1952 Olympics in Helsinki, they had won nine of their last ten games, with the other a draw. In Finland the team continued their exceptional form, thrashing Italy, Turkey and Sweden before beating a fine Yugoslavia team 2-0 in the final.
One of the results of Hungary’s exceptional performance at the Olympics was the opportunity for a friendly with England. Following the 6-0 demolition of Sweden in the semi-finals, Stanley Rous, the secretary of the FA, proposed the two teams might meet at Wembley. The result, of course, was an historic 6-3 victory for Hungary, the first Continental team to win at Wembley.
The match was famous for many things: England’s first ever defeat at home to “foreign opposition” (the Republic of Ireland had beaten them at Goodison Park in 1949), the remarkable “drag-back” goal of Puskas, but most of all for the maelstrom caused in the English defence by the movement of Nandor Hidegkuti. Many players were to profit from the confusion the English defenders showed, but the man it was intended to benefit most was Jozsef Bozsik. Within fifty seconds of the game kicking off it was Bozsik’s pass that put Hidegkuti through to score. Later on in the match Bozsik scored the fourth goal of the game with a deflected free-kick.
(Against Uruguay; 1954) Arguably the finest game in the history of the sport saw two supreme attacking sides take it in turns to threaten the opposing goal. Hungary seemed certain winners at 2-0, but Uruguay fought back to force extra-time. Kocsis restored the Hungarian advantage before applying the killer blow with a header from Bozsik’s cross.
Arguably the finest deep lying playmaker in football history was Hungary’s stellar right-half, Jozsef Bozsik. When the Magical Magyars are fondly remembered, it is often for the goalscoring exploits of Sandor Kocsis, the tactical innovations of Peter Palotas and Nandor Hidegkuti, and the all round brilliance of Ferenc Puskas. The result is that the metronomic qualities of Bozsik are frequently overlooked.
Given his lack of goalscoring prowess and the limited availability of footage it is perhaps inevitable that the name of Bozsik has largely been forgotten. Yet there are few historical players who would have been more valued in the modern game. For Bozsik possessed the gift that is the most valued in contemporary football and the hardest to find, that of time. He had the ability and composure to wait for the right option and to execute what few others could even see. In an era where such qualities are at a premium, Bozsik would have been peerless.
Style of Play
By the stage that he made his debut for the national team it was apparent that Bozsik’s decision making was one of the central strengths to his game. Not only was he able to spot the right pass at the right moment, his technique was impeccable. The youngster possessed a range of passing that allowed him to find distant targets, but he was also happy to play the simple ball if it meant retaining possession. Furthermore, he was almost impossible to dispossess as he shielded the ball so well from opponents.
Despite the arrival of the other great players at Honved, the pair of Bozsik and Puskas remained central to the team’s success. When Bozsik received the ball in his right-half position, his first thought was to try and play a cross-field diagonal pass to find Puskas at his typical inside-left. The source of so many of the goals scored by Puskas was this searching and unerring pass.
(For Hungary) With Hidegkuti pulling players out of their natural positions, space was constantly available to Bozsik. Given his ability to choose the right pass when placed under even the greatest pressure, he was in his element when allowed free reign.
Eventful Performances
Following Bozsik’s debut for Hungary in 1947 they set off on a run of results which saw them win ten of their next 14 games, including three consecutive 5-0 victories over Bulgaria, Sweden and Czechoslovakia. A 5-3 defeat away against Austria was a setback, but they immediately resumed their winning sequence. By the time they reached the 1952 Olympics in Helsinki, they had won nine of their last ten games, with the other a draw. In Finland the team continued their exceptional form, thrashing Italy, Turkey and Sweden before beating a fine Yugoslavia team 2-0 in the final.
One of the results of Hungary’s exceptional performance at the Olympics was the opportunity for a friendly with England. Following the 6-0 demolition of Sweden in the semi-finals, Stanley Rous, the secretary of the FA, proposed the two teams might meet at Wembley. The result, of course, was an historic 6-3 victory for Hungary, the first Continental team to win at Wembley.
The match was famous for many things: England’s first ever defeat at home to “foreign opposition” (the Republic of Ireland had beaten them at Goodison Park in 1949), the remarkable “drag-back” goal of Puskas, but most of all for the maelstrom caused in the English defence by the movement of Nandor Hidegkuti. Many players were to profit from the confusion the English defenders showed, but the man it was intended to benefit most was Jozsef Bozsik. Within fifty seconds of the game kicking off it was Bozsik’s pass that put Hidegkuti through to score. Later on in the match Bozsik scored the fourth goal of the game with a deflected free-kick.
(Against Uruguay; 1954) Arguably the finest game in the history of the sport saw two supreme attacking sides take it in turns to threaten the opposing goal. Hungary seemed certain winners at 2-0, but Uruguay fought back to force extra-time. Kocsis restored the Hungarian advantage before applying the killer blow with a header from Bozsik’s cross.
Socrates
The first things most Botafogo de Ribeirão Preto fans noticed about the 17-year-old Socrates were his height – he stood approximately 6’3 tall – and his slender, willowy frame. They soon forgot about the teenager’s somewhat ungainly appearance when he got on the ball, though. Faster, much faster, than he looked, he had vision, an eye for goal and the insouciance to play cute back-heeled passes to his team-mates.
In the years that followed Socrates improved to such an extent that his velvet touch became his trademark. In the meantime, his speed of thought and acute intelligence would play an increasingly important role in the avenues he pursued off the pitch. In the early 1980s, by which time he had completed his medical studies and established himself as an idol with Corinthians and the national team, he would draw on these other attributes to make his influence felt outside the football world.
A player unlike any other, he proved that training at a slower pace to his team-mates would have no adverse impact on his career and that the Botafogo board made the right choice in allowing him to stay on at medical school.
Spain 1982
Years later, with his degree safely secured, he left O Fogão a hero and signed for Corinthians, completing his meteoric rise by earning a call-up to the national side ahead of the 1982 FIFA World Cup Spain™.
Appointed team captain by Seleção coach Tele Santana, Socrates struck up memorable partnerships with Zico and Falcao, the trio bewildering opponents with their quick interplay – which involved many a backheel – and continuous movement. Yet despite scoring superb goals against USSR and Italy, he ended the tournament in tears, along with millions of his compatriots, following a shock second-round defeat to the Paolo Rossi-inspired Italians.
It was with that fabled side that he introduced the ideas he would later apply in breaking down some of the preconceived notions that beset Brazilian football, a task in which he was aided by the close ties he forged with other similarly strong-minded players and by the freedom Santana gave to the team.
Between 1982 and 1984 Socrates’ Democracia Corinthiana won the Sao Paulo state title twice, though their biggest triumph was the political awareness they generated and the way in which the club’s idols took their ideas to audiences far beyond football. As an example of that, Socrates spoke at a number of rallies in support of Diretas Já, and even pledged that he would not go through with a proposed move to Fiorentina if the Corinthians board went back on the changes made at the club. The democratic ideals he helped introduced remained untouched, however, and he made the switch to Florence.
Quotes and Highlights
“When I started out at Botafogo I was nowhere near as physically strong as my opponents. I found myself up against some very fit people and I had to develop a different set of skills just to get by.” “I started to play one-touch passes only. I’d get the ball and pass it straightaway because I couldn’t handle any physical contact. I didn’t have the body for it. I was very tall and thin. I used whatever I could to play the ball first time, whether it was my backside, my knee, my elbow or my heel, which became my signature trick. It was a question of survival. It was my way of solving a problem and I ended up becoming a better player because of it.”
"Beauty comes first. Victory is secondary. What matters is joy."
"When I named one of my sons Fidel, my mother told me: ‘It’s a bit strong for a child.’ And I said: Mom, look what you did to me."
“There’s never been another player like Socrates in the history of Brazilian football,” enthused Juca Kfouri, one of Brazil’s most eminent sportswriters, in the film Ser Campeão é Detalhe – A Democracia Corinthiana
As his name suggests, Socrates Brasileiro Sampaio de Souza Vieira de Oliveira was more than just a great football star. He was, first and foremost, a great Brazilian.
http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/players/player=63627/
The first things most Botafogo de Ribeirão Preto fans noticed about the 17-year-old Socrates were his height – he stood approximately 6’3 tall – and his slender, willowy frame. They soon forgot about the teenager’s somewhat ungainly appearance when he got on the ball, though. Faster, much faster, than he looked, he had vision, an eye for goal and the insouciance to play cute back-heeled passes to his team-mates.
In the years that followed Socrates improved to such an extent that his velvet touch became his trademark. In the meantime, his speed of thought and acute intelligence would play an increasingly important role in the avenues he pursued off the pitch. In the early 1980s, by which time he had completed his medical studies and established himself as an idol with Corinthians and the national team, he would draw on these other attributes to make his influence felt outside the football world.
A player unlike any other, he proved that training at a slower pace to his team-mates would have no adverse impact on his career and that the Botafogo board made the right choice in allowing him to stay on at medical school.
Spain 1982
Years later, with his degree safely secured, he left O Fogão a hero and signed for Corinthians, completing his meteoric rise by earning a call-up to the national side ahead of the 1982 FIFA World Cup Spain™.
Appointed team captain by Seleção coach Tele Santana, Socrates struck up memorable partnerships with Zico and Falcao, the trio bewildering opponents with their quick interplay – which involved many a backheel – and continuous movement. Yet despite scoring superb goals against USSR and Italy, he ended the tournament in tears, along with millions of his compatriots, following a shock second-round defeat to the Paolo Rossi-inspired Italians.
It was with that fabled side that he introduced the ideas he would later apply in breaking down some of the preconceived notions that beset Brazilian football, a task in which he was aided by the close ties he forged with other similarly strong-minded players and by the freedom Santana gave to the team.
Between 1982 and 1984 Socrates’ Democracia Corinthiana won the Sao Paulo state title twice, though their biggest triumph was the political awareness they generated and the way in which the club’s idols took their ideas to audiences far beyond football. As an example of that, Socrates spoke at a number of rallies in support of Diretas Já, and even pledged that he would not go through with a proposed move to Fiorentina if the Corinthians board went back on the changes made at the club. The democratic ideals he helped introduced remained untouched, however, and he made the switch to Florence.
Quotes and Highlights
“When I started out at Botafogo I was nowhere near as physically strong as my opponents. I found myself up against some very fit people and I had to develop a different set of skills just to get by.” “I started to play one-touch passes only. I’d get the ball and pass it straightaway because I couldn’t handle any physical contact. I didn’t have the body for it. I was very tall and thin. I used whatever I could to play the ball first time, whether it was my backside, my knee, my elbow or my heel, which became my signature trick. It was a question of survival. It was my way of solving a problem and I ended up becoming a better player because of it.”
"Beauty comes first. Victory is secondary. What matters is joy."
"When I named one of my sons Fidel, my mother told me: ‘It’s a bit strong for a child.’ And I said: Mom, look what you did to me."
“There’s never been another player like Socrates in the history of Brazilian football,” enthused Juca Kfouri, one of Brazil’s most eminent sportswriters, in the film Ser Campeão é Detalhe – A Democracia Corinthiana
As his name suggests, Socrates Brasileiro Sampaio de Souza Vieira de Oliveira was more than just a great football star. He was, first and foremost, a great Brazilian.
http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/players/player=63627/
@Marty1968 I've sent my write up to Annah for our game tomorrow. Good luck!
tactics sent, good luck @crappycraperson
@Stobzilla
Guess we need to pick a date, I'll be travelling most of Wednesday, how about Thu or Fri?
Guess we need to pick a date, I'll be travelling most of Wednesday, how about Thu or Fri?
@Theon any thoughts yet on a date?
Tactics Sent
Just about to send mine in 10 mins or so....
@Annahnomoss - when are u starting our match
Going to have a coffee mate then I'll get the matches going.
I should be, not quite finished the write up yet but shouldn't be an issue. What time does it start?
15, UK time, works?
Yeh suits me mate.