That Nani red card against Real Madrid

amolbhatia50k said:
Let’s also ban bicycle kicks while we are at it.
Click to expand...
Dumb comparison, but for your information bicycle kids have repeatedly been whistled back by the ref when deemed to have endangered opponents. Usually without a card, just a freekick, but technically it would be entirely within the scope of the rules to send somebody off if they nailed somebody hard during a bicycle kick. So yeah, they aren't illegal per se, but they very much already are and have been since ages when done in a dangerous manner.

But this isn't about bicycle kicks. It's about Nani jumping off and then nailing Arbeola in the ribs with the sole of his boot with his full body weight behind it. Unintentionally, sure, but that's irrelevant as I already laid out. That is "serious foul play" as defined by the rules and can very much result in a sending-off, as explained. And again, that was the rules in 2013 as much as it is today.

You may not like that, you might wish that the rules should be different, but that has no bearing on the reality on how things are.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Pep left after 11/12, Barca’s manager that season was Tito Villanova iirc, and he was out halfway through the season with cancer.
Click to expand...

Good point, I thought that was the season after. They were still elite that season. 100 points in the league, Messi's 60 goals. They or Bayern would have made light work of us. Possibly Dortmund too.
 
G3079 said:
Dumb comparison, but for your information bicycle kids have repeatedly been whistled back by the ref when deemed to have endangered opponents. Usually without a card, just a freekick, but technically it would be entirely within the scope of the rules to send somebody off if they nailed somebody hard during a bicycle kick. So yeah, they aren't illegal per se, but they very much already are and have been since ages when done in a dangerous manner.

But this isn't about bicycle kicks. It's about Nani jumping off and then nailing Arbeola in the ribs with the sole of his boot with his full body weight behind it. Unintentionally, sure, but that's irrelevant as I already laid out. That is "serious foul play" as defined by the rules and can very much result in a sending-off, as explained. And again, that was the rules in 2013 as much as it is today.

You may not like that, you might wish that the rules should be different, but that has no bearing on the reality on how things are.
Click to expand...
Not really as the intention is extremely important. Otherwise most bicycle kicks would be ruled out as they tend to have a defender (unless they’re shit) in the vicinity of the attackers foot. Call them all out I say - let’s also not allow defenders within 2 yards of any attacker while we’re at it.
 
It’s not a red, but they get given.

If we’re talking injustices that potentially stopped us winning the CL, the Scholes offside goal against Jose’s Porto in 2004 was the biggest feck up. Had three players playing him onside and it was still ruled out. If it’d been given we probably go on to win that game. Porto then went on to beat Lyon, Deportivo La Coruna, and then Monaco in the final.
 
Harsh at the time but don't really care. That Bayern team would've smashed us if we got through.
 
Not as furious as I was at the time, still think because of the nature of it, it wasn’t a red.

In todays game, it’s a red.
 
RobinLFC said:
It's much closer to the Mane on Ederson challenge a few years ago than it is to the Doku challenge yesterday. And the Caf basically unanimously thought the Mane one was a red.

Can't say I even remember the Nani challenge, but back then football rules were completely different so pretty pointless to compare it to today's laws. I think no one could complain right now if a red is shown for such a challenge. Back in the days, probably a harsh one (and an outlier, given that e.g. De Jong on Alonso wasn't a red although it should've been).
Click to expand...

Mane was completely nuts in that match. He jumped in studs first more than once and Ederson and him had some verbal arguments before this happened. Also Nani didnt see the player, Mane was looking at Ederson and then did that.
Its completely different.
 
J2J said:
Harsh at the time but don't really care. That Bayern team would've smashed us if we got through.
Click to expand...
This get thrown about a lot but it seems to rest solely on that 7-0 against Barca, who was done on the counter the year previous by Di Matteo’s Chelsea. Bayern didn’t smash Dortmund in the final and before Cakir decided to derail our season we’ve won or drawn all of the ‘big’ games that season, including away at Anfield.

We weren’t playing pretty football that season but effective, as evidenced by the bazillion of points we had on City by Feb, and were more than competitive in big games. Bayern were the best side at the time but had we gone up against them it would be much more of a match than that 10/11 final.
 
J2J said:
Harsh at the time but don't really care. That Bayern team would've smashed us if we got through.
Click to expand...

OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
Good point, I thought that was the season after. They were still elite that season. 100 points in the league, Messi's 60 goals. They or Bayern would have made light work of us. Possibly Dortmund too.
Click to expand...


This is still SAF era we're talking about, not the current banter era. I wouldn't count us out against any team with SAF at the helm.

Underdogs, perhaps, but Chelsea just beat Bayern in the final at the Allianz the previous year. See off Madrid and the momentum may well have carried us all the way.
 
He only had eyes on the ball, foot was not dangerously high, opponent jumped into him.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Not really as the intention is extremely important. Otherwise most bicycle kicks would be ruled out as they tend to have a defender (unless they’re shit) in the vicinity of the attackers foot. Call them all out I say - let’s also not allow defenders within 2 yards of any attacker while we’re at it.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Another important aspect here is that Nani challenged for the ball with the high foot, and then Marcelo ran into that situation from behind, so Nani was not able to see who or what was coming. If anything, Marcelo created a dangerous situation for himself. Never in a million years was that a red card. I'm not even sure it should have been a free kick.
 
Rossa said:
Indeed. Another important aspect here is that Nani challenged for the ball with the high foot, and then Marcelo ran into that situation from behind, so Nani was not able to see who or what was coming. If anything, Marcelo created a dangerous situation for himself. Never in a million years was that a red card. I'm not even sure it should have been a free kick.
Click to expand...
If the defender had just hung back he would have then been in a foot race with Nani and his nearest teammate was in the centre of the pitch. Madrid had too many players forward and the defence was exposed. He deliberately ran into Nani to try and buy a free kick rather than have to defend a run on goal.

The fact that Nani's foot was high at the moment of contact is what got Madrid the extra benefit of sending off our most creative player on the pitch. Never forget that the Translator was very good at the dark arts and while he made a big deal of saying it was an unfair decision after the game it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't a tactic he'd discussed with his defenders before the game.
 
Still viscerally pissed about that decision. It was a strong yellow, but never a red.
 
What still infuriates me the most is that in the exact same match, the Real Madrid keeper jumped for the ball at a corner, missed it completely and then as a result punched Vidic in the face.

Nothing happened and nobody remembers it, but in the VAR era that situation would've been a penalty kick and a red for Lopez.

duffer said:
It's soft but not the terrible call some on here make out to be.
Click to expand...

So it the context of what happened during that match and the disproportional advantage the sending off gave Real Madrid, it absolutely was a terrible call.
 
Henrik Larsson said:
What still infuriates me the most is that in the exact same match, the Real Madrid keeper jumped for the ball at a corner, missed it completely and then as a result punched Vidic in the face.

Nothing happened and nobody remembers it, but in the VAR era that situation would've been a penalty kick and a red for Lopez.



So it the context of what happened during that match and the disproportional advantage the sending off gave Real Madrid, it absolutely was a terrible call.
Click to expand...

Also the rugby tackle on Welbeck in the first leg, and then the ref ending the game early because we were counter attacking and looked like we might score.

Probably the most convinced I've been that a game/tie has been fixed...well definitely of our games anyway. Not really that much more unconvinced now either, especially with refs and players being caught match fixing Champions League games.

There were a lot of decisions over one tie that all favoured the same team and were very difficult to explain as mistakes. One weird decision is hard to fathom, four or five and its into the realms of the least reasonable explanation being it was by accident.

I suppose Chelsea would point to the Barcelona game as worse, but one of the biggest errors in that was the ref sending off a Barcelona player while they were a goal down, and then they only equalised with seconds left with zero input from the ref, which doesn't fit into any kind of narrative.
 
That was 100% proof that the referee has never played the game.

It’s a red card if Nani was looking at the defender but he is looking at the ball it’s is a genuine attempt to control the ball, anyone who played the game knows it but unfortunately rules are made and enforced by those who were probably geeks and last pick in school.

even with Var and this high bar low bar shite it probably wouldn’t have been overturn.
 
I think the most annoying thing about it is, even if it's an understandable decision, there wasn't really any demand for him to be sent off.

Nani was on the floor for ages before he got up and was sent off. Even the Madrid players were just waiting for the game to restart, it caught everyone off-guard including Mourinho who couldn't believe his luck.

The ref could have just restarted the game or gave a yellow and it never would have been spoken of again, no one would have been arsed.

It's one of those obvious times the ref has blatantly decided he wants to be the centre of attention.
 
2 man midfield said:
I think Dortmund would’ve knocked us out the round after
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure. They should've been knocked out by Malaga. If anything, if two big decisions didn't go the way of Madrid and Dortmund, it probably would've been us vs Malaga.
 
Ref had it in for English clubs for sure and I need no proof other than his expression at the time. SAF would back me up on that and i don't doubt his rage-pointing at the final whistle included at least one similar acusation. Keane's angry-faced 'contrarian' reaction to it in the studio got my systolic up to the low 200s as well. TBF it looked like he was going through a mentally frail phase at the time.
 
I was so upset, it was a truly great European tie, United were playing well, and without Nani there was an inevitability about how the rest of the night would go. Terrible decision.
 
This red card gives me PTSD every time I see it. This, the Lanpard goal for England against Germany, probably Maradona’s handball, all moments where you’re certain football is rife with bribery for a brief second.
 
Since this thread (thanks @VorZakone :D ) I've been on a bit of a Nani binge. Came across his performance:




Until the red, we were better over two legs and Varane should've seen red as @noodlehair pointed out above. RvP (despite missing a few chances) and Welbeck were our best two in the first leg, and Welbeck and Giggs were our best in the second leg before we crumbled after the red card from memory. Welbeck really stepped up in this tie, and Giggs was rolling back the years!

Here are Welbeck and van Persie's first leg performances:




 
One of the top 5 shock reds I can remember in my decades watching football.

Beckham and Rooney in international tournaments and Nani.

Nani is made worse by the fact you'll see similar in English football frequently without even a yellow.
 
crossy1686 said:
This red card gives me PTSD every time I see it. This, the Lanpard goal for England against Germany, probably Maradona’s handball, all moments where you’re certain football is rife with bribery for a brief second.
Click to expand...

Koeman not getting the most obvious red in history v Platt. Then scoring the winner.
 
VorZakone said:
So it's been about a decade since that red card. And in that decade I've often seen similar looking moments where I thought to myself "Nani got red for this" and no red card was given...

So...anyone changed their mind on it whether it was a red?

Click to expand...

Never a red. Ref was on the take!
 
English teams used to get fecked over rotten back in them days and before in Europe it was great watching the games but you would always be on a knife edge knowing you would get some shite decisions or the other team going over with the slightest contact and then keeping the ball for 10 minutes.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Never a red. Ref was on the take!
Click to expand...

I heard that the UEFA refs were trained in foul spotting in those days using English club videos - mainly Chelsea. UEFA were institutionally biased towards Real, Barca and Bayern but whether it tipped over into actual corruption is hard to say. It's known that Barca face domestic referee bribing charges going back two decades so let's not pretend european football is anything but extremely corrupt.

https://www.reuters.com/sports/socc...tion-aiding-barca-referee-scandal-2023-09-05/
 
I was mad at the time and felt it was very harsh, with my 2024 eyes I weirdly see it as a clear red, just shows how the game has changed our perceptions over the past few years, probably more so since VAR.

I don't think this would be overturned by VAR for sure and not sure that it should be.
 
This foul lives rent free on your heads. :lol:

It can be seen as a soft red but I don't think is as controversial as you guys make it out to be. In the slow motion you can even notice how Nani extends his leg after making contact with Arbeloa. Then there are the claims about United being the better team over two legs, dominating us, etc. :rolleyes:
 
glazed said:
I heard that the UEFA refs were trained in foul spotting in those days using English club videos - mainly Chelsea. UEFA were institutionally biased towards Real, Barca and Bayern but whether it tipped over into actual corruption is hard to say. It's known that Barca face domestic referee bribing charges going back two decades so let's not pretend european football is anything but extremely corrupt.

https://www.reuters.com/sports/socc...tion-aiding-barca-referee-scandal-2023-09-05/
Click to expand...
Wouldn't surprise me.

I also remember the Drogba "it's a disgrace". Which, although funny as a rival of Chelsea at the time, was dodgy af.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.