Test draft Match 5 - NM vs Prath

[Varun]

Welcome to the fifth match of the test draft!

• Judge the players on their peaks excluding any 6-12 month purple patch.

• Vote for the team you think will win a 3 match test series between these 2 sides based on the given nature of pitches.

1. 1st test: Good batting pitch.
2. 2nd test: Slow wicket which gets worse as the game goes on and will assist spinners heavily.
3. 3rd test: Green top. Assists pace, seam and swing bowling.

Team Prath:

Pitch 1 & 3

1. Mathew Hayden
2. Alec Stewart (wk)
3. Jonathan Trott
4. Mahela Jayawardene
5. Steven Smith
6. Asif Iqbal
7. Heath Streak (C)
8. Wasim Akram
9. Paul Reiffel
10. Bishen Singh Bedi
11. Joel Garner

Pitch 2:

1. Mathew Hayden
2. Alec Stewart (wk)
3. Jonathan Trott
4. Mahela Jayawardene
5. Steven Smith
6. Asif Iqbal
7. Heath Streak (C)
8. Wasim Akram
9. Bishen Singh Bedi
10. Ashley Mallet
11. Joel Garner

Team NM:

1. Boycott
2. Anwar
3. Dean Jones
4. Greg Chappen
5. Cullinan
6. Prior
7. Hadlee
8. Peter Pollock
9. Gillespie
10. Southee
11. Underwood

 

[Varun]

Prath Write up:

Batting Stats

Bowling Stats

 

[Varun]

Spoiler: Batting

Batting
Opening the batting is Mathew Hayden, who has an average of over 50 in Test Cricket. Arguably Australia’s best opener for the last 25 years, Hayden has 30 centuries and being Australian, is an excellent player of pace and he is also well versed vs spin, having a successful personal tour vs India in 2001, one of the only Aussie batsmen who could deal with Harbhajan that series. Can punish bad balls very well and once held the record of highest individual score (380) in 2003. Alongside him is Alec Stewart, a seasoned English batsmen with over 8000 runs in Test (he is the third highest scorer for England in Test Cricket). He could take on fast bowling very well and has 15 centuries. He has also played 133 tests, highest capped English player yet and is a legend among English faithful. He started his career as an opening batsmen and has played in most positions but his best position remains the opening spot.

Middle Order contains Jonathan Trott at 3, another English batsman who was at his peak the top ranked Test Batsman. He was instrumental in England’s Ashes wins in 2010-11 and 2013. He also scored a century in his first Test, the fourth Ashes Test in 2009. He was also England’s best player of spin, alongside Pietersen. He was excellent against pace as he has multiple centuries against Australia. If not for his long term stress related illness due to which he had to retire prematurely, he could have had a more illustrious career. Following him at 4 is Mahela Jayawardene who is one of the best SL Test batsmen of his era and one of the best in the world as well. Could handle both spin and pace very well and has a high score of 374 vs South Africa. Has at least one test century against all Test Playing countries. Good at stabilising the innings and building a score. He was voted best Test Player in 2007 In at 5 is Steven Smith, current Australian captain and world no.1 Test batsman. Has an incredible average of at least 40 in all regions that he has played in with a career average of 60. Even amongst the modern batsman, it is quite a rare achievement that hasn’t been replicated by any of his contemporaries either. He has excellent Hand to Eye co-ordination which helps him play spin and pace bowling excellently and effortlessly. At 6, Pakistani batsman Asif Iqbal, who was a flambuoyant batsman of the late 60s and 70s. He was noted for his excellent footwork and his ability to play technical shots such as cover drives and cuts. He was such a key player that in his last test, he was given a standing ovation, upon dismissal, at Eden Gardens, a rare feat for a Pakistani player in India.

Following him are excellent batting options in Heath Streak who has a very good batsman and quite often required to rescue a Zimbabwe Team from collapse. Also Wasim Akram was hailed by his contemporaries, notably Greg Chappell, as a very good all-rounder in the ilk of Imran Khan, Richard Hadlee and Kapil Dev, quite capable of scoring Test Centuries and causing mayhem down the order. Paul Reiffel is another stubborn tail-end batsman with 6 half-centuries. He is famous for his support for captain Steve Waugh in a match winning innings at Old Trafford in 1997. Waugh wrote in his book about that incident “I found a willing ally in Paul Reiffel, who was clearly a very talented batsman but who often played not to his ability but to the number next to his name. Like many down the batting order, all he needed in order to prosper was a dash of inspiration and a touch of encouragement”. He followed it up with many key knocks down the order for Australia.

Tailenders Bedi and Garner aren’t options at batting though they both have test fifties so would probably provide a bit of resistance.

Spoiler: Bowling

Bowling
Opening the bowling on one end is arguably one of the best fast bowlers the world has seen in terms of variation and pure destruction. Wasim Akram changed the perception of fast bowling forever and with his brilliant swinging ability. He was able to swing it to the batsmen and away from the batsmen often perplexing the most brilliant of batsmen. He was hard to pick up and scoring against him wasn’t easy. Capable of bowling swinging Yorkers at 145 kmph and 115kmph and capable of bowling unplayable bouncers as well. Will quite rightly be a handful for the opposition batsmen. Curtly Ambrose once said that “Wasim Akram does things that he could only dream of doing”. Viv Richards said “the day before I had to face him, I couldn’t get sleep.”

From the other end, another bowler of a different variety. Joel Garner, master of pace, accuracy and rattling the batsmen with his run up. With his height of 209cm, he was capable of bowling bouncers even off balls which land in good length zone. He was one of the most effective and reliable bowlers of WI in an era where they had fast bowlers aplenty. He was known for being unplayable through the square region. Again will be difficult to handle.

Supporting them is the man who often had to take his country’s bowling burden on his own back. Heath Streak, with immense stamina and strength, carried the Zimbabwe attack for much of his career and is unquestionably among the greatest players his country has produced. He had the ability to bowl outswing at good pace and with excellent control, as he showed at Lord's in 2000 when he was virtually a one-man attack. These qualities made him the first Zimbabwean to reach 100 Test wickets and later, 200 wickets. He would be more effective here with better support than he normally received for his country and without the need to carry the attack on his own.

Supporting is Paul Reiffel, an Australian cricketer of the 90s era, Reiffel was a reliable support bowler to the better strike bowlers that they had like Mcdermott, Hughes, later McGrath and Fleming. His biggest strength was his ability to keep the batsmen on a tight leash with his admirable control over tight line and length. He had the ability to take wickets at the right time and work hard even in dead pitches bowling accurately and economically.

The spin option is Bishen Singh Bedi, a left arm spinner who was one of the best spinners India has ever produced and led India’s spin attack at a time India weren’t short of quality spinners. He was stealthy, silent and deadly, a master of deception who conjured variations in flight, loop, spin and pace without any perceptible change in action. He bowled with a big heart too, challenging the batsman to hit over the top by giving the ball plenty of air, and was a consistent wicket-taker for most of his career. His strike rate was good enough for a spinner of his era - Lance Gibbs (87), Underwood (73) E Prasanna (76) B Chandrashekhar (66) S Venkataraghavan (95) for instance.

Other spin option in the squad is Ashley Mallett, who is arguably Australia’s best finger spinner since World War 2. He was instrumental in Australia’s series win over India in 1969, its last before its next such win in 2004. He outshone even the Indian spinners with 28 wickets in the entire series of 5 tests and was hailed by even the Indian players as hard to play (India had the likes of Gavaskar Pataudi and Vishwanath in the side). He will be used in the pitch assisting spin bowlers

Other bowling options
Asif Iqbal is a very good bowling option. He has a Test average of 28. Initially he began his career as a test opening fast bowler but later due to an injury he turned himself into a batting allrounder bowling medium pacers. If required he can bowl his medium pacers, especially in the slow wickets in pitch 2.

Similarly, Steven Smith started his career as a genuine leg spinner capable of batting. He later transitioned to the best batsman of his era but he is still capable of bowling few overs and taking wickets. Especially in the spin assisted Pitch 2.

 

[Varun]

Strategies

Spoiler: Pitch 1

Pitches 1 and 3
Ashley Mallet will sit these ones out and Paul Reiffel will come in

Opposition have excellent batsmen in Chappell, Anwar, Boycott and all but I can match them quite well in terms of bowling. Garner was hard to face for most of the batsmen of that era often quoted as unplayable. And Akram was equally destructive against batsmen as well. With Streak, Reiffel both of whom were very effective (had SRs just over 60 and average of 28 and 26 respectively, which is good for support bowlers), wicket taking isnt a problem for them. Bedi will bowl overs and can chip in with a few wickets as well.

We have batsman capable of scoring well against fast or spin bowlers. Hadlee is undoubtedly a world class bowler but the other bowlers, as good as they are, aren’t exceptional or unplayable that the likes of Stewart, Hayden, Trott etc. haven’t already faced well in their careers. They are also excellent at the batting positions they are playing here.

Spoiler: Pitch 2

Pitch 2
Ashley Mallet will come in and Paul Reiffel will sit this one out

This pitch favours spinners heavily. I will play 2 spinners in this game in Bedi and Mallett. Both are extremely good spinners with ability to take wickets as evidenced by their careers. Add to this, Akram’s ability to take advantage of slow pitches and use it to swing the ball effectively causing confusion as well as Steven Smith’s legspin can also be helpful in this pitch as an additional option. Bowlers like Garner and Streak will not be able to receive much help from the pitch much, though Garner is known for generating bounce even on nothing pitches. But their load will be reduced by 2 top spinners and Akram who together have the ability to take 15 wickets at the least.

Opposition have one major spinner in Underwood. Even he wasn’t a genuine spinner of the ball more of medium pace going by records and articles. Even otherwise, he doesn’t have support from the other end to get maximum benefit out of the pitch. Coupled with the fact that our batsmen aren’t alien to batting against spin or pace, it wouldn’t be an issue to score more than the opponents. Alec Stewart has been known to slightly struggle against spinners like Warne, but in this game with Underwood being the only recognised spinner in the squad, it wont be a big issue.

videos

Spoiler: Akram vs Aus- 1990

Spoiler: Prasanna on Mallett

Spoiler: Prasanna on Bedi - Most intelligent spinner

Spoiler: Reiffel vs WI -1997

Spoiler: Boycott on Garner - No one could hit Joel

 

[Varun]

Spoiler: Stewart on Akram - He took wickets at will

Spoiler: Akram on Stewart - He was never scared of any bowler

Spoiler: stewart 100 vs WI - 1994

Spoiler: Hayden 203 vs India - 2001

Spoiler: Hayden 197 vs England - 2002

 

[Varun]

Spoiler: Jayawardene 119 vs Eng - 2006

Spoiler: Trott 135 vs Aus - 2011

Spoiler: Steven Smith 138 vs NZ

Spoiler: Steven Smith 115 vs Eng

 

[Varun]

NM Write up:

Graphic:

Here is my write up:

Openers:
Not much to be said here. Geoff Boycott is one of the best of this draft, and will ensure one end is held firm. Two of my favorite quotes about him from the cricnfo bio: " If ever a defence appeared to be impenetrable it was that of Yorkshireman Geoff Boycott when his mind was set on staying in." and " How valuable he was to England is shown by the fact that only 20 of his 108 Tests ended in defeat, mainly when he failed." Alongside him, Saeed Anwar was one of the better openers of the 90s - did well most places, and was a great strokemaker when in form. I think they make a great opening pairing.

Middle Order:
Dean Jones may be known as a ODI player, but he was a solid test batsman, averaging 48 at 3. His job will be to keep the score ticking along. His dedication can't be doubted - he ended up in hospital after making a 200 in the famous tied test.
Following him is one of the greats - Greg Chappell. I'll just use Cricinfo again - "Greg Chappell was the foremost Australian batsman of his generation. A formidable talent, he also had the iron self-will to harness his abilities to best effect." "The outstanding batting of his career left no trace on the record-books, his 621 runs at 69 in five unauthorised World Series Cricket "SuperTests" in the Caribbean in 1979, off a West Indian attack of unprecedented hostility." He was simply great everywhere he played.
Following him is Daryl Cullinan. A very good middle order batsman. Some facts: Warne only got him out 4/12 times. He has scored 100s against Murali and averages 50+ in India and 40+ against Sri Lanka, so he isn't a poor player of spin. Very solid, and will complement Chappell well.
Next up is Matt Prior, one of the better wicketkeeper batsmen for England. He has played well everywhere, and actually has a better record away than at home. His average is brought down by his disastrous (non peak) final year and a half, or he would be held in higher esteem.

Lower Order:
Sir Richard Hadlee is one of the greatest all rounders ever. He will support the middle order, and ensure the tail wags when the time comes. Peter Pollock is a handy lower order batsman, averaging 21 in the 60s. Jason Gillespie is as dogged as they come. Pollock and Gillespie are more than capable of holding one end while the middle order and Hadlee do their job. Tim Southee will hit a few sixes before getting out (he is known for that) and Derek Underwood is probably cannon fodder against the atacks in this draft.

Bowling:
1. Sir Richard Hadlee is simply one of the greatest swing bowlers ever. Great everywhere, and better away than at home. He is my spearhead. Per cricinfo " His lithe, whippy, side-on action made life uncomfortable for all the great batsmen of his era, as he extracted pace, bounce and movement from even the least responsive of surfaces." Still has the most 5 and 10 wicket hauls ever for a non-spinner.

2. Peter Pollock was SA's premier fast bowler of the 60s. Averaged 24 in his limited career, and was very good in all the countries he bowled in. Another case of "what-if" for SA along with his brother Graeme and Barry Richards

3. Jason Gillespie formed (statistically) Australia's best ever opening bowling combination with McGrath. Per cricinfo, "few Australian fast men can have owned such deep wells of tenacity. Gillespie bowls long spells in the hottest conditions - always uncomplainingly, and always with the seam upright and the ball jagging both ways." He is a great strike bowler AND a workhorse - a great combination.

4. Tim Southee is one of the better outswing bowlers today, he will be very useful on the swing friendly pitch, and provide 5th bowler support on the others.

5. Derek Underwood - "Deadly". A unique spinner, he bowled spin at a medium pace, and was known for destroying opposition on rain affected pitch. Nevertherless (per cricinfo) "When conditions were right he would turn the ball extravagantly, but on good pitches, against good players, he would still take plentiful wickets through his unfailing accuracy. Batsmen, infuriated or entranced by the unhittable length and line firing at them with the remorseless regularity of a bowling machine, would very often commit cricketing suicide in their frustration." He was successful in most countries, and did very well in India -showing that he was brilliant on spin friendly pitches too. He has a good record there (avg of 26.5) unlike the GOATS( Warne and Murali) who struggled there.

Why I'll win:

1. Better Openers - Boycott is better than Hayden (who never had to face the attacks Boycott did) and Anwar is simply much better than a keeping Stewart. Stewart's average when keeping is only 35ish.

2. Better middle Order - Jones is as good (if not better than Trott) who couldn't face short bowling and had (I think) issues keeping his nerve. Chappell is simply much better than Jayawardene, who will be a sitting duck in seamer friendly conditions (see his average in SA, Eng, Aus and NZ. The guy simply isn't that good). Smith is better than Cullinan, I'll give that. I'd rank Prior equal or a shade ahead of Iqbal, simply using the numbers. I don't know enough about Iqbal to do a better analysis than that.

3. Greater depth in bowling - His front line is better, Akram and Garner is scary. However, beyond that, I have greater depth. As a unit, Hadlee, Pollock, Gillespie and Southee is not far from Garner, Akram, Streak and Reiffel. Underwood is simply a better spinner than Mallett or Bedi.

I reckon I have the far superior batting line up, and will have very good chances to win the tests on flat and seaming conditions. In spinning conditions, having one spinner only may put me at a disadvantage, but I have full faith in my team to at least draw. (Not Hadlee was very good in spinner friendly wickets too - can share stats on that if needed)

 

[Varun]

@NM @prath92 Game on, good luck!

 

[prath92]

1. Firstly I don't understand why to take keeping average while batting. It's not like he had to keep while batting. It's true he was often played as a pure batsman in his early days but he was the main keeper.

2. I think streak and reiffel are much better than you give them credit for. Streak carried the Zimbabwe attack single handedly most of the time. Neither of them are in anyway inferior to Southee who doesn't belong in the same group. It's not that I don't respect modern bowlers but southee isn't anything special at all.

3. Bedi was much better spinner than underwood imo. Underwood from what I've read isn't a spinner per se. He bowled medium pace and was more of a swinger. Plus he was more effective in sticky wickets that used to exist in England then.

Ashley Mallett was a terrific spinner. He was the highest wicket taker in the 1969 Indian tour at a time when very few foreign bowlers could outspin the Indians. (Even Warne wasn't particularly great in India about 30 years later which makes his achievement all the more special). E Prasanna (in the video above) calls him one of the best he has seen and ranks him alongside Venkatraghavan.

3. Jayawardene has a decent record in Eng and Aus averaging above 30 in both. He played majorly when cricket hadn't yet been spoilt by the t20 advent so it's not a bad record. I don't consider average as anything more than indicators. Above 30 is considered good enough and below is poor. He has a 100 in Lord's too. Not that it makes him better than Chappell but he wasn't a sitting duck in seam pitches. Not to mention only one is played in a truly seam pitch so it doesn't matter either way.

4. As for trott, he was instrumental in two ashes wins. In his peak he was the best test batsmen in the world. He had a long term illness due to which he had to quit cricket but it's nothing to show he was wilting under pressure (I know you didn't dismiss him but just putting it there )

I think overall it's a decent batting lineup. Yours is superior I agree but isn't far superior as you say. It's quite capable of playing well. My batsmen have faced bowlers like Walsh, Akhtar, Steyn and all (or in Asif s case, the bowlers of 70s)

Bowling though I would have to say mine is superior. Akram and garner are probably the best of their era (boycott called garner unplayable - video above) and Akram was someone who could find movement on nothing pitches (said by Alec Stewart- video above). Streak again was an excellent bowler for windies destroying top teams like Pakistan and England. Reiffel also had excellent bowling accuracy and was a very good support bowler. He was a mainstay in Australian team for years

 

[Mani]

Two quality teams and it would be really unlucky whoever looses this.

 

[Norris]

Is it just me or do both teams have pretty long tails ? Iqbal and Prior seem to be the last set of recognized batsmen.

 

[Skills]

Initial instinct says Prath but I need to research some of NMs players.

 

[Akshay]

Yep, two great spinners, strong bowling attacks and some quality batsmen.

A few thoughts. I think Stewart only played 6 or so Tests as both opener and WK? Might be wrong on the exact number. I'd definitely rate Prior as a better WK than him. Chappell, Boycott and Hayden are the stand-out batsmen.

Bowling wise, I think Mallett has a good record on spin-friendly pitches and I think the combination with Bedi probably tilts the second match in Prath's favour. On the third pitch, Akram + Garner will be deadly. Really like this pairing; the two complement each other nicely. I'm not certain who is opening the bowling on NM's side - Hadlee/Pollock?

Overall NM's batting is better but I'm not sure if it's enough to make up for Prath's bowling advantage.

 

[NM]

1. Firstly I don't understand why to take keeping average while batting. It's not like he had to keep while batting. It's true he was often played as a pure batsman in his early days but he was the main keeper.

2. I think streak and reiffel are much better than you give them credit for. Streak carried the Zimbabwe attack single handedly most of the time. Neither of them are in anyway inferior to Southee who doesn't belong in the same group. It's not that I don't respect modern bowlers but southee isn't anything special at all.

3. Bedi was much better spinner than underwood imo. Underwood from what I've read isn't a spinner per se. He bowled medium pace and was more of a swinger. Plus he was more effective in sticky wickets that used to exist in England then.

Ashley Mallett was a terrific spinner. He was the highest wicket taker in the 1969 Indian tour at a time when very few foreign bowlers could outspin the Indians. (Even Warne wasn't particularly great in India about 30 years later which makes his achievement all the more special). E Prasanna (in the video above) calls him one of the best he has seen and ranks him alongside Venkatraghavan.

3. Jayawardene has a decent record in Eng and Aus averaging above 30 in both. He played majorly when cricket hadn't yet been spoilt by the t20 advent so it's not a bad record. I don't consider average as anything more than indicators. Above 30 is considered good enough and below is poor. He has a 100 in Lord's too. Not that it makes him better than Chappell but he wasn't a sitting duck in seam pitches. Not to mention only one is played in a truly seam pitch so it doesn't matter either way.

4. As for trott, he was instrumental in two ashes wins. In his peak he was the best test batsmen in the world. He had a long term illness due to which he had to quit cricket but it's nothing to show he was wilting under pressure (I know you didn't dismiss him but just putting it there )

I think overall it's a decent batting lineup. Yours is superior I agree but isn't far superior as you say. It's quite capable of playing well. My batsmen have faced bowlers like Walsh, Akhtar, Steyn and all (or in Asif s case, the bowlers of 70s)

Bowling though I would have to say mine is superior. Akram and garner are probably the best of their era (boycott called garner unplayable - video above) and Akram was someone who could find movement on nothing pitches (said by Alec Stewart- video above). Streak again was an excellent bowler for windies destroying top teams like Pakistan and England. Reiffel also had excellent bowling accuracy and was a very good support bowler. He was a mainstay in Australian team for years

ok let's go to work

1. If you don't understand the impact keeping has on batting, I don't know what to tell you. Keeping for rest of the inning had no impact? That's nuts. In this draft, if used as a keeper, he is an average batsman and no more. Sorry. As a keeper, your back gets affected, and your concentration gets affected. Come on mate.

2. He was very good in India, and was a spinner. Please read up about him. Kumble wasn't a spinner either then I guess?

3. Above 30 in test cricket is considered good enough??????? Dude stop. Jayawardene is 35 in Eng, 31 in Aus and 27 in NZ and SA. He can't play the moving ball. PERIOD.

4. I didn't dismiss Trott but the short ball did

I honestly think its simple. Both my openers are better (Boycott> Hayden and Anwar >> Stewart as keeper. My thoughts on Jayawardene are clear. Akram of course is a goat, but Hadlee is clearly the better allrounder (and equal at least as a bowler). I think it would be better for your team if the coach knew what team Streak played for, and Reiffel was NEVER a mainstay. He went in and out if I remember correctly.

Overall, I win bud.

 

[NM]

Initial instinct says Prath but I need to research some of NMs players.

Who do you need more info on bud?

Yep, two great spinners, strong bowling attacks and some quality batsmen.

A few thoughts. I think Stewart only played 6 or so Tests as both opener and WK? Might be wrong on the exact number. I'd definitely rate Prior as a better WK than him. Chappell, Boycott and Hayden are the stand-out batsmen.

Bowling wise, I think Mallett has a good record on spin-friendly pitches and I think the combination with Bedi probably tilts the second match in Prath's favour. On the third pitch, Akram + Garner will be deadly. Really like this pairing; the two complement each other nicely. I'm not certain who is opening the bowling on NM's side - Hadlee/Pollock?

Overall NM's batting is better but I'm not sure if it's enough to make up for Prath's bowling advantage.

Stewart played 82 as keeper and averaged 35. Prior is a better keeper and batsman.

Hadlee and Pollock are opening. Read up on Pollock, he was very good too. I also think Underwood is being sadly underrated. He averaged 25 in India when the likes of Warne and Murali averaged 30s and 40s. Additionally, Jayawardene simply wasn't very good and is a walking wicket against good bowling. See his averages I posted in SA,NZ,Aus,Eng.

 

[Raees]

Two quality teams and it would be really unlucky whoever looses this.

Agreed.. littered with quality. This match definitely needs alot of reading up and thinking about before making a call who would win. Well drafted guys.

 

[NM]

Gillespie was part of statistically the best opening partnership ever with McGrath for Aus. I don't understand how we can clearly say his pace attack is far better than mine. Hadlee was a GOAT for his time, and was brilliant every freaking where, including dead pitches. Pollock is a hostile fast bowler, and Gillespie was both a swing bowler and work horse. That's discounting Southee, who is decent for NZ too, and very good against right handers. I think Hayden is the only leftie amongst his batsmen? We have to consider that too!

 

[Skills]

Is it just me or do both teams have pretty long tails ? Iqbal and Prior seem to be the last set of recognized batsmen.

Hadlees a proper all-rounder and Pollock seemsseems to have a decent record. Southee and Gillespie are a very decent tail IMO. Streak and Akram are very decent bats too.

Who do you need more info on bud?



Stewart played 82 as keeper and averaged 35. Prior is a better keeper and batsman.

Hadlee and Pollock are opening. Read up on Pollock, he was very good too. I also think Underwood is being sadly underrated. He averaged 25 in India when the likes of Warne and Murali averaged 30s and 40s. Additionally, Jayawardene simply wasn't very good and is a walking wicket against good bowling. See his averages I posted in SA,NZ,Aus,Eng.

The two I've never really look into before are Pollock and Dean Jones (the test batsman - I'm aware he was a formidable ODI player!). So I will read up more on these two, before I form a better opinion.

 

[Varun]

2 very good teams.

Initial thoughts after a glance:

NM has the better openers and the much better 3-4 but Prath having the better opening bowlers helps him balance that. That said, there's a big drop in quality in his pace attack after that with Streak who was good at a stretch. On the other hand, NM has the slightly worse opening attack but Gillespie is a very good 3rd pacer to have. 2 very good spinners on each side with Prath having an extra one but I dont know much about him.

Need to know more about Iqbal, Mallet and Pollock.

 

[NM]

Is it just me or do both teams have pretty long tails ? Iqbal and Prior seem to be the last set of recognized batsmen.

Hadlee is a proper all rounder. He was compared to Imran and Kapil. He can bat properly. Pollock averaged 24, and Gillespie is renknowned for being hard to dismiss. If you are Indian, you know this better than most. Southee is also known for hitting sixes - what tailender is known for that?

Akram SHOULD have been an all rounder but he never focussed on his batting, and Streak could hold his end.

 

[NM]

Any questions I can answer while I'm here? I'll try and post things about Pollock since there seem to be questions about him. I'm surprised there are no questions about Prath's number 6, who I know nothing about.

Also, are people rating JAyawardene here?

 

[Nighteyes]

I'd say Streak and Akram together will offer more with the bat than Hadlee alone will. You can even add Reiffel to the mix for prath who was a pretty decent bat himself. Of all the "big" all rounders Hadlee is clearly the worst batsmen of the lot. NM unquestionably has the longer tail here and with Akram and Garner in the other team the tail won't last too long.

 

[Varun]

Any questions I can answer while I'm here? I'll try and post things about Pollock since there seem to be questions about him. I'm surprised there are no questions about Prath's number 6, who I know nothing about.

Also, are people rating JAyawardene here?

I did. Mallet and Iqbal are 2 players on his side I need to know more about. Pollock on your side.

Jayawardena is bang average. He'll be a non entity in the 3rd test and his influence in the other 2 tests would depend on the top 3 staying long enough to blunt the new ball substantially. If he comes in early with a quality pacer still operating, he's hopeless no matter the pitch conditions.

 

[Nighteyes]

Just had a look at the stats

Hadlee averages 27. Akram, Streak and Reiffel average 22, 22 and 26 respectively.

 

[prath92]

2 very good teams.

Initial thoughts after a glance:

NM has the better openers and the much better 3-4 but Prath having the better opening bowlers helps him balance that. That said, there's a big drop in quality in his pace attack after that with Streak who was good at a stretch. On the other hand, NM has the slightly worse opening attack but Gillespie is a very good 3rd pacer to have. 2 very good spinners on each side with Prath having an extra one but I dont know much about him.

Need to know more about Iqbal, Mallet and Pollock.

That 5 minute video on top where Prasanna has chosen his favourite spinners of all time and one of them is Mallett. The guy wasn't a world class bowler like Murali but was effective as an off spinner. In 1969 as I said, he took 28 wickets in a 5 match series in India (Prasanna and Bedi were part of it and pras took 26 wickets).

I don't agree that streak wasn't good. He was very effective especially in England. His problem was Zimbabwe bowling wasn't good enough for tests and he got no support.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/zimbabwe/content/story/94692.html

Same with reiffel who was always an excellent bowler for Australia in an Angus Fraser like role as in he will work extremely hard and bowl accurately and consistently.

http://www.cricketcountry.com/artic...-had-great-control-over-line-and-length-25390

 

[Varun]

I'd say Streak and Akram together will offer more with the bat than Hadlee alone will. You can even add Reiffel to the mix for prath who was a pretty decent bat himself. Of all the "big" all rounders Hadlee is clearly the worst batsmen of the lot. NM unquestionably has the longer tail here and with Akram and Garner in the other team the tail won't last too long.

I know I differ from most on here when it comes to things like these but when it comes to these all star test drafts, such bit part contributors become meaningless. Sure, Akram + Streak > Hadlee alone as you say but how many runs do you actually see these 3 scoring vs pacers like Hadlee, Akram, Garner etc? Its pretty negligible in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Akshay]

Hadlee and Pollock are opening. Read up on Pollock, he was very good too. I also think Underwood is being sadly underrated. He averaged 25 in India when the likes of Warne and Murali averaged 30s and 40s. Additionally, Jayawardene simply wasn't very good and is a walking wicket against good bowling. See his averages I posted in SA,NZ,Aus,Eng.

Yeah, I like Pollock. Better than Streak and Reiffel for me. Interesting that Underwood did very well in seaming conditions as well, I hadn't considered that angle.

 

[NM]

I'd say Streak and Akram together will offer more with the bat than Hadlee alone will. You can even add Reiffel to the mix for prath who was a pretty decent bat himself. Of all the "big" all rounders Hadlee is clearly the worst batsmen of the lot. NM unquestionably has the longer tail here and with Akram and Garner in the other team the tail won't last too long.

Pollock averaged over 20 and Gillespie is very difficult to dismiss too. I certainly don't see it as a longer tail. Hadlee averaged 3 runs less than Kapil

@Varun I wouldn't discount Hadlee or Akram here IMO. Hadlee was a batsman, and Akram should have been one. He just didn't apply himself

 

[NM]

Yeah, I like Pollock. Better than Streak and Reiffel for me. Interesting that Underwood did very well in seaming conditions as well, I hadn't considered that angle.

Underwood did well everywhere except WI if I remember correctly. IMO he is my surprise weapon. He is known for getting batsmen out on flat wickets too. Per cricinfo - "When conditions were right he would turn the ball extravagantly, but on good pitches, against good players, he would still take plentiful wickets through his unfailing accuracy. Batsmen, infuriated or entranced by the unhittable length and line firing at them with the remorseless regularity of a bowling machine, would very often commit cricketing suicide in their frustration."

He will be useful on the flat too, as well as the swinging conditions.

 

[Mani]

It looks like NM has advantage in batting with Boycott /Anwar/Jones/Chappell and Parth with his opening bowling combo(Wasim/Garner). As well we need to note Hadlee had done all alone with the NZ side the whole career. Reiffel is good 3rd bowler but I'm not sure how good Iqbal /Mallet.

 

[Nighteyes]

Trott does struggle against bounce but he only struggled against Johnson who was bowling unbelievably quick. Are any of @NM bowlers that quick? That said NM's top 4 is certainly better than prath's. The lower order on the other hand is where prath has the edge. The pace and swing Garner and Akram is not something tailenders handle too well.

 

[prath92]

An article on Asif Iqbal

http://www.cricketcountry.com/artic...n-who-was-once-ar-bukhatir-s-man-friday-27621

 

[Norris]

Hadlees a proper all-rounder and Pollock seemsseems to have a decent record. Southee and Gillespie are a very decent tail IMO. Streak and Akram are very decent bats too.

Hadlee is a proper all rounder. He was compared to Imran and Kapil. He can bat properly. Pollock averaged 24, and Gillespie is renknowned for being hard to dismiss. If you are Indian, you know this better than most. Southee is also known for hitting sixes - what tailender is known for that?

Akram SHOULD have been an all rounder but he never focused on his batting, and Streak could hold his end.

Southee, Gillespie etc are decent tails for a normal test match, but when Garner-Akram are going to bowl to them, it's a different story. Agreed, Hadlee is an All-round great. That courtesy extend to Akram as well, but I've always pictured both of them to be mostly bowling all-rounders.

 

[prath92]

Trott does struggle against bounce but he only struggled against Johnson who was bowling unbelievably quick. Are any of @NM bowlers that quick? That said NM's top 4 is certainly better than prath's. The lower order on the other hand is where prath has the edge. The pace and swing Garner and Akram is not something tailenders handle too well.

Johnson was just godly in that series. Trott has 6 centuries against Australia on the whole. You make it sound as if he is suresh raina

 

[Nighteyes]

I know I differ from most on here when it comes to things like these but when it comes to these all star test drafts, such bit part contributors become meaningless. Sure, Akram + Streak > Hadlee alone as you say but how many runs do you actually see these 3 scoring vs pacers like Hadlee, Akram, Garner etc? Its pretty negligible in the grand scheme of things.

No, I agree. In fact that was the point I was trying to make. Hadlee being an allrounder is not of much relevance here when you have 3 others players in the other team who are more than handy with the bat themselves. Also, surviving against Hadlee and co would be much easier than Akram and Garner. So I'd give prath a slight edge here.

 

[Nighteyes]

Pollock averaged over 20 and Gillespie is very difficult to dismiss too. I certainly don't see it as a longer tail. Hadlee averaged 3 runs less than Kapil

@Varun I wouldn't discount Hadlee or Akram here IMO. Hadlee was a batsman, and Akram should have been one. He just didn't apply himself

Reiffell averages 1 run less than Hadlee.

 

[Norris]

Just had a look at the stats

Hadlee averages 27. Akram, Streak and Reiffel average 22, 22 and 26 respectively.

I saw those stats too, which is why I questioned the tail for both teams. But Hadlee has scored 150+ and Akram has that double century to his name against Zimbabwe. It's just a question of whether such feats should be included as part of their batting ability or not.

 

[Norris]

I know I differ from most on here when it comes to things like these but when it comes to these all star test drafts, such bit part contributors become meaningless. Sure, Akram + Streak > Hadlee alone as you say but how many runs do you actually see these 3 scoring vs pacers like Hadlee, Akram, Garner etc? Its pretty negligible in the grand scheme of things.

You are not alone in that. I feel having proper specialist players is better than these all-rounders, especially a plethora of them. One all-rounder you can get away with, but both teams (Especially Prath has quite a few), it's difficult to justify. Imo, the only really true All-rounder of that 1980's era was Beefy. The others excelled more in one discipline or the other.

 

[prath92]

I did. Mallet and Iqbal are 2 players on his side I need to know more about. Pollock on your side.

Jayawardena is bang average. He'll be a non entity in the 3rd test and his influence in the other 2 tests would depend on the top 3 staying long enough to blunt the new ball substantially. If he comes in early with a quality pacer still operating, he's hopeless no matter the pitch conditions.

I don't agree. Jayawardene was excellent in batting wickets. He scored 374 on a flat wicket vs South Africa that had ntini steyn nel and all who were all pretty fast. And he is also very good vs spin. To call him bang average is a bit much.

 

[prath92]

You are not alone in that. I feel having proper specialist players is better than these all-rounders, especially a plethora of them. One all-rounder you can get away with, but both teams (Especially Prath has quite a few), it's difficult to justify. Imo, the only really true All-rounder of that 1980's era was Beefy. The others excelled more in one discipline or the other.

But most teams had keepers as 7s and very few could actually bat well, at least well enough to make a difference. Guys like Jack Russell Healy and all were hardly any better as batsmen than streak and all