Test Cricket draft: SF : harshad vs Aldo @ Eden Gardens, Kolkata

[The Man Himself]

I am not convinced by Harshad's openers and it is one weakness I see if I break both teams down in different categories/department. Otherwise teams are evenly matched. Harshad does have a 5th bowler though and a spinner in Rhodes which can be advantage bowling 4th at Eden Gardens. Hence, to me it comes down to imagining how much lead will Aldo be able to build in first innings, if at all, because that will decide the match. Early inroads by removing Rhodes/Sehwag can put Harshad's team under pressure.

This match is more likely to be draw but we have to choose a winner!

 

[prath92]

I am not convinced by Harshad's openers and it is one weakness I see if I break both teams down in different categories/department. Otherwise teams are evenly matched. Harshad does have a 5th bowler though and a spinner in Rhodes which can be advantage bowling 4th at Eden Gardens. Hence, to me it comes down to imagining how much lead will Aldo be able to build in first innings, if at all, because that will decide the match. Early inroads by removing Rhodes/Sehwag can put Harshad's team under pressure.

This match is more likely to be draw but we have to choose a winner!

Sehwag and Dravid playing in India are key. Subcontinent pitches get the best out of them. Dravid will amply support and create a big partnership whenever he plays. Notable is the Laxman innings in Eden gardens itself. Sehwag is a lion in India and getting him out isn't as easy as we think. Especially in pitches with no bounce and pace where Roberts and pollock will have little impact. The presence of Azhar is another bonus again someone who is a master of these conditions.

I agree with aldo on spinners. Having subcontinent spinners are better than foreign ones. Shane warne had little impact in Kolkata when Harbhajan wreaked havoc.

So it all comes down to batsmen and having 3 Indian players give Harshad a slight edge. Not voting yet though.

 

[harshad]

That's good enough. There's no question in the fact that Sehwag has easily struggled more against the type of bowler pollock is. He doesn't have the patience to wait for the bad ball which will never come when Pollock is bowling. It's far too obvious and a quick analysis of his dismissals will prove that.

This is not entirely accurate. In Melbourne when Sehwag made 195 from 233 balls, he hit 25 4s and 5 6s. So thats 65 runs scored from 203 balls. I would say that he was plenty patient in his innings.

Even otherwise, assuming Sehwag does get out early, to Roberts or Pollock, I have Dravid coming in at 3 who has the capability to see out any bowling attack.

 

[Akshay]

Sehwag and Dravid playing in India are key. Subcontinent pitches get the best out of them. Dravid will amply support and create a big partnership whenever he plays. Notable is the Laxman innings in Eden gardens itself. Sehwag is a lion in India and getting him out isn't as easy as we think. Especially in pitches with no bounce and pace where Roberts and pollock will have little impact. The presence of Azhar is another bonus again someone who is a master of these conditions.

I agree with aldo on spinners. Having subcontinent spinners are better than foreign ones. Shane warne had little impact in Kolkata when Harbhajan wreaked havoc.

So it all comes down to batsmen and having 3 Indian players give Harshad a slight edge. Not voting yet though.

Sure, but is Sehwag in India better than Hobbs? Or Dravid in India better than Headley? I think the class of Aldo's top order still sets them apart regardless of where the match is being played. Harshad might have a slightly stronger 6-8 though.

 

[harshad]

Sehwag and Dravid playing in India are key. Subcontinent pitches get the best out of them. Dravid will amply support and create a big partnership whenever he plays. Notable is the Laxman innings in Eden gardens itself. Sehwag is a lion in India and getting him out isn't as easy as we think. Especially in pitches with no bounce and pace where Roberts and pollock will have little impact. The presence of Azhar is another bonus again someone who is a master of these conditions.

I agree with aldo on spinners. Having subcontinent spinners are better than foreign ones. Shane warne had little impact in Kolkata when Harbhajan wreaked havoc.

So it all comes down to batsmen and having 3 Indian players give Harshad a slight edge. Not voting yet though.

Won't you put that to the ability of Indian batsman to play spin bowlers.

 

[The Man Himself]

Sehwag and Dravid playing in India are key. Subcontinent pitches get the best out of them. Dravid will amply support and create a big partnership whenever he plays. Notable is the Laxman innings in Eden gardens itself. Sehwag is a lion in India and getting him out isn't as easy as we think. Especially in pitches with no bounce and pace where Roberts and pollock will have little impact. The presence of Azhar is another bonus again someone who is a master of these conditions.

I agree with aldo on spinners. Having subcontinent spinners are better than foreign ones. Shane warne had little impact in Kolkata when Harbhajan wreaked havoc.

So it all comes down to batsmen and having 3 Indian players give Harshad a slight edge. Not voting yet though.

Dravid was equally good home or away and yes Sehwag was lot better in home conditions but here is facing all top bowlers. With his style of play, if he is tied down with Aldo's bowlers can definitely do, Sehwag will struggle.

It is tough to call though. Harshad's weaker opening pair is negated by bowling 4th. As I said, one needs to wonder who will get first innings lead and by how much.

 

[prath92]

Sure, but is Sehwag in India better than Hobbs? Or Dravid in India better than Headley? I think the class of Aldo's top order still sets them apart regardless of where the match is being played. Harshad might have a slightly stronger 6-8 though.

Sehwag in India is a very dangerous batsman. Even capable of 300 and stuff. He isn't going to be intimidated by bowlers. Fast bowlers are going to struggle as well because of the lack of bounce and pace, which most depend on in either team.

Won't you put that to the ability of Indian batsman to play spin bowlers.

That's a point and plus now that I think of it, I think warne around early 2000s struggled with bans and partying controversies and stuff. Maybe that did play a role but again I have rarely seen many spinners taking full advantage of Indian pitches like Indian spinners do.

Dravid was equally good home or away and yes Sehwag was lot better in home conditions but here is facing all top bowlers. With his style of play, if he is tied down with Aldo's bowlers can definitely do, Sehwag will struggle.

It is tough to call though. Harshad's weaker opening pair is negated by bowling 4th. As I said, one needs to wonder who will get first innings lead and by how much.

The pitch will have little support for pace bowlers though. Roberts and pollock will struggle to perform the same way they normally thrive elsewhere. Sehwag on flat pitches will be dangerous.

 

[harshad]

Sehwag in India is a very dangerous batsman. Even capable of 300 and stuff. He isn't going to be intimidated by bowlers. Fast bowlers are going to struggle as well because of the lack of bounce and pace, which most depend on in either team.



That's a point and plus now that I think of it, I think warne around early 2000s struggled with bans and partying controversies and stuff. Maybe that did play a role but again I have rarely seen many spinners taking full advantage of Indian pitches like Indian spinners do.



The pitch will have little support for pace bowlers though. Roberts and pollock will struggle to perform the same way they normally thrive elsewhere. Sehwag on flat pitches will be dangerous.

I have seen Michael Clarke take six wickets at Mumbai though it was a crap pitch. I have also seen Shaun fecking Udal rip through the Indian batting on day 5 at Wankhede. Saqlain took 4 5fers in two tests against us.

 

[Varun]

Marshall, toss and an extra spinner has edged me towards harshad atm. I see absolutely nothing in it tbh and would expect a test here to be drawn because Aldo has the batting quality to bat through the 4th innings and secure a draw.

 

[Norris]

Not that impressed with Rhodes as a batsmen from what I read of him. But the rest of the squad looks good. Harshad seems to have the better pick of bowlers imo, but Aldo with the better set of Batsmen (Still didn't understand much about McCabe and Dexter though). Also while Tallon is praised very highly as a keeper by the likes of The Don, he probably won't be able to cut it with the bat. Baz would excel on the other hand. Close one. But Harshad batting first and having the superior set of bowlers and the fact it is in the sub-continent edges this for me. But Aldo could just as easily win this or draw it. Really difficult, probably one of those games where I might change my vote at a later point.

 

[Mani]

For me its the Aldo's batting,especially combination of batting he got will come better on this flat pitch,like the set of bowlers harshad possess but again this is flat pitch more runs on either side are inevitable.

 

[The Red Viper]

Love Harshad's bowling attack. But, Aldo's batting is beastly as well. That Top-4 is as good as it gets really. All of them are Top-3 in their positions. However, the fact that the match is being played in the sub-continent would help Harshad's batsmen, especially Viru and Azhar. But I am still unsure about Viru dealing against Pollock and Bedser with the new ball. Bracken used to cause him all sorts of problem in the sub-continent and both Pollock and Bedser are similar but much better bowlers. The key is, if Viru can see of the first ten-fifteen odd overs without getting out. Then the match would be impossible to call because there would be nothing between the teams. Ideally, I see this being a draw but if I have to pick a winner, I am going with Aldo. There's simply too much firepower in Aldo's batting which tilts the game in his favour IMO. Also, Lara is the best batsman I've seen against spin bowling. He is going to win it for Aldo in what would be a nail-biter of a match. Hard Luck, Harshad.

 

[The Red Viper]

Not that impressed with Rhodes as a batsmen from what I read of him. But the rest of the squad looks good. Harshad seems to have the better pick of bowlers imo, but Aldo with the better set of Batsmen (Still didn't understand much about McCabe and Dexter though). Also while Tallon is praised very highly as a keeper by the likes of The Don, he probably won't be able to cut it with the bat. Baz would excel on the other hand. Close one. But Harshad batting first and having the superior set of bowlers and the fact it is in the sub-continent edges this for me. But Aldo could just as easily win this or draw it. Really difficult, probably one of those games where I might change my vote at a later point.

Rhodes is such a difficult player to evaluate. He had two phases in his career. Similar to Afridi.

If you look at their overall record, you would be impressed by their all-round ability but both had two different phases in their career. One as a batsman and the other as a bowler. When they were good bowlers, they used to bat very low down the order. And when they used to bat high up the order, they weren't really know for their bowling.

 

[Norris]

Rhodes is such a difficult player to evaluate. He had two phases in his career. Similar to Afridi.

If you look at their overall record, you would be impressed by their all-round ability but both had two different phases in their career. One as a batsman and the other as a bowler. When they were good bowlers, they used to bat very low down the order. And when they used to bat high up the order, they weren't really know for their bowling.

Cheers, I didn't know that. But should that really happen ideally? I mean if you are a good bowler, you are a good bowler no matter what position you bat at and vice versa.
Harshad plans to use him as a batsman primarily, with him playing a more prominent role with the ball probably in the fourth innings. But depsite that, I expect him to cause more problems with the ball than the bat, with it being the sub-continent.

 

[harshad]

Cheers, I didn't know that. But should that really happen ideally? I mean if you are a good bowler, you are a good bowler no matter what position you bat at and vice versa.
Harshad plans to use him as a batsman primarily, with him playing a more prominent role with the ball probably in the fourth innings. But depsite that, I expect him to cause more problems with the ball than the bat, with it being the sub-continent.

In Rhodes' case it may be that age also played a factor. He was already 42 when international cricket resumed after the first world war. Prior to that, the emergence of Frank Wooley, Sydney Barnes would have contributed to his reduced number of overs. We can only speculate.

 

[harshad]

Well played @Aldo

 

[Moby]

Sehwag in India is a very dangerous batsman. Even capable of 300 and stuff. He isn't going to be intimidated by bowlers. Fast bowlers are going to struggle as well because of the lack of bounce and pace, which most depend on in either team.

Normally yes but again not in front of the bowlers whose style of play and quality is precisely what you need to trouble them.
This is what will happen at the start of day 1, not all the time of course but as I said one of the most certain things in this game:

@Varun The toss was very important and gives his team a better chance, but at the same time when one of his openers is out of his depth in this company and other being suspect against my bowling unit, it won't give them a chance to make a HUGE total and negates the toss advantage. Dravid and Pollock will be out in the first session on the pitch and would have to play very responsibly and wouldn't get the same comfort my 3-4-5-6 would. We really have a good chance of smashing a huge score here and killing the game.

Well played @Aldo

Not over yet.

 

[harshad]

Normally yes but again not in front of the bowlers whose style of play and quality is precisely what you need to trouble them.
This is what will happen at the start of day 1, not all the time of course but as I said one of the most certain things in this game:

@Varun The toss was very important and gives his team a better chance, but at the same time when one of his openers is out of his depth in this company and other being suspect against my bowling unit, it won't give them a chance to make a HUGE total and negates the toss advantage. Dravid and Pollock will be out in the first session on the pitch and would have to play very responsibly and wouldn't get the same comfort my 3-4-5-6 would. We really have a good chance of smashing a huge score here and killing the game.


Not over yet.

Don't agree with you that you will win, let alone as easily as you are suggesting; but this match its done. Given 15 people voted in the other Semi - Final, don't think anyone else is voting.

 

[Moby]

Don't agree with you that you will win, let alone as easily as you are suggesting; but this match its done. Given 15 people voted in the other Semi - Final, don't think anyone else is voting.

Easily? Not at all.
And I wrote in the OP itself that this will end in a draw most of the times. I would have been confident of a win had I been batting first but it is quite difficult to pull off a win in the subcontinent batting second.
However your chances of winning are far less. Good luck dismissing Herbert Sutcliffe when he has decided that he will be staying on the pitch, be it the last day. And then of course comes in Brian Lara and Stan McCabe. Your last day advantage wouldn't hold strong against these players who literally specialised in taking care of such conditions, with style.

 

[Moby]

Good game, @harshad .

 

[Varun]

@Varun The toss was very important and gives his team a better chance, but at the same time when one of his openers is out of his depth in this company and other being suspect against my bowling unit, it won't give them a chance to make a HUGE total and negates the toss advantage. Dravid and Pollock will be out in the first session on the pitch and would have to play very responsibly and wouldn't get the same comfort my 3-4-5-6 would. We really have a good chance of smashing a huge score here and killing the game.


Not over yet.

If both his openers fail, he won't put up a huge total, agreed. I'm expecting sehwag to do well though especially because Pollock, very good as he was, isn't a Mcgrath. I do like your batting more overall though as I said in my post, It's top drawer from start to finish. Him winning the toss nudged me towards him though. In other conditions, I'd back your team to win this.

 

[Akshay]

Congrats @Aldo. Looking forward to the final.

Commiserations @harshad, well done getting to the semis.

 

[Varun]

Didn't realise it had already ended when I posted

 

[Moby]

If both his openers fail, he won't put up a huge total, agreed. I'm expecting sehwag to do well though especially because Pollock, very good as he was, isn't a Mcgrath. I do like your batting more overall though as I said in my post, It's top drawer from start to finish. Him winning the toss nudged me towards him though. In other conditions, I'd back your team to win this.

He isn't, but who else from the modern era is more similar in terms of bowling style?
Sehwag even at his peak never earned a reputation of being completely reliable facing all types of bowling. He had his strengths, but he was never a complete player like Sachin for example and his weaknesses could be exploited, and were. Both Bedser and Pollock are well suited to stop his scoring and let the slightest of mistake being punished. He's not an opener I would rely on in such a tough game. I'd anyday have someone like Graeme Smith who may not be capable of scoring a quickfire 80 but over a longer course provides far more reliability and especially the fact that when the situation demands, he will stop his natural game and see out the attack, when Sehwag wouldn't give a feck about the situation and can give his wicket away even if it means putting the team in trouble.

 

[harshad]

He isn't, but who else from the modern era is more similar in terms of bowling style?
Sehwag even at his peak never earned a reputation of being completely reliable facing all types of bowling. He had his strengths, but he was never a complete player like Sachin for example and his weaknesses could be exploited, and were. Both Bedser and Pollock are well suited to stop his scoring and let the slightest of mistake being punished. He's not an opener I would rely on in such a tough game. I'd anyday have someone like Graeme Smith who may not be capable of scoring a quickfire 80 but over a longer course provides far more reliability and especially the fact that when the situation demands, he will stop his natural game and see out the attack, when Sehwag wouldn't give a feck about the situation and can give his wicket away even if it means putting the team in trouble.

For Bedser to come in and have a go at Sehwag, he would have survived the initial onslaught of Roberts and Pollock, meaning he would have been at the wicket for at least 40 odd min, had ample time to get his eye in.

good job on keeping the discussion on Sehwag and not letting it go to Dravid and Azharuddin who has a phenomenal record at Eden Gardens.

 

[Varun]

He isn't, but who else from the modern era is more similar in terms of bowling style?
Sehwag even at his peak never earned a reputation of being completely reliable facing all types of bowling. He had his strengths, but he was never a complete player like Sachin for example and his weaknesses could be exploited, and were. Both Bedser and Pollock are well suited to stop his scoring and let the slightest of mistake being punished. He's not an opener I would rely on in such a tough game. I'd anyday have someone like Graeme Smith who may not be capable of scoring a quickfire 80 but over a longer course provides far more reliability and especially the fact that when the situation demands, he will stop his natural game and see out the attack, when Sehwag wouldn't give a feck about the situation and can give his wicket away even if it means putting the team in trouble.

In terms of style, Pollock is definitely the closest modern day player you could find, I was talking about the quality. I do agree his openers needed to be better anyways, that was the biggest difference in the sides and had the test been played outside the subcontinent or if you'd won the toss, my vote would have been for you.

 

[Moby]

For Bedser to come in and have a go at Sehwag, he would have survived the initial onslaught of Roberts and Pollock, meaning he would have been at the wicket for at least 40 odd min, had ample time to get his eye in.

good job on keeping the discussion on Sehwag and not letting it go to Dravid and Azharuddin who has a phenomenal record at Eden Gardens.

Sehwag against Pollock was always going to be a strong case in my favour so I was going to discuss that more. No doubt on Dravid's quality of course, though he still won't get into my batting line up. In fact no one from your team would unless I plan to play Pollock lower down the order ahead of Dexter at 6.

 

[The Red Viper]

Cheers, I didn't know that. But should that really happen ideally? I mean if you are a good bowler, you are a good bowler no matter what position you bat at and vice versa.
Harshad plans to use him as a batsman primarily, with him playing a more prominent role with the ball probably in the fourth innings. But depsite that, I expect him to cause more problems with the ball than the bat, with it being the sub-continent.

Thats why I said, its tricky to judge such players.

 

[Moby]

In terms of style, Pollock is definitely the closest modern day player you could find, I was talking about the quality. I do agree his openers needed to be better anyways, that was the biggest difference in the sides and had the test been played outside the subcontinent or if you'd won the toss, my vote would have been for you.

Any bowler would pale in comparison to McGrath, but Pollock's hardly a noob. He possesses a wonderful cricketing brain just like Pidge and would be all over Viru and target that off stump. Of course Viru is an unpredictable player and can smash him or anyone when he wants, and I don't care about a few boundaries here, as long as I can see him as usual completely ignoring the bowler's skill and qualities and only playing his natural game. Players who cannot divert from their natural game would be a weakness here unless we are talking of someone like Viv Richards. And even he doesn't get away with it for some. Like I said I'm far more comfortable bowling to Sehwag even in the subcontinent than against someone who can counter me tactically and adjust his game to negate my strengths, like Sachin did every single innings and what made him so dominant against top bowlers. e.g. a Gavaskar here would spell trouble for me, I know he will wear out my opening bowlers and no matter how accurate or quick we try to bowl he will not give an inch. It's far more difficult bowling against those people than against the ones who are always due an error.

 

[harshad]

Sehwag against Pollock was always going to be a strong case in my favour so I was going to discuss that more. No doubt on Dravid's quality of course, though he still won't get into my batting line up. In fact no one from your team would unless I plan to play Pollock lower down the order ahead of Dexter at 6.

I would have Pollock over Lara any day. Also Compton over Dexter.

 

[Moby]

I would have Pollock over Lara any day.

Will disagree there, and I doubt you'll have many agreeing with you.
And I really am a big fan of Graeme, by all accounts a great sight watching him bat, but Lara is in a class of his own. That 153 was out of this world, it was like he had activated a cheat code. I can't imagine any other batsman doing that. What are the reasons that make you choose Pollock ahead of Lara?

http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/949999/practically-magic

 

[Varun]

Any bowler would pale in comparison to McGrath, but Pollock's hardly a noob. He possesses a wonderful cricketing brain just like Pidge and would be all over Viru and target that off stump. Of course Viru is an unpredictable player and can smash him or anyone when he wants, and I don't care about a few boundaries here, as long as I can see him as usual completely ignoring the bowler's skill and qualities and only playing his natural game. Players who cannot divert from their natural game would be a weakness here unless we are talking of someone like Viv Richards. And even he doesn't get away with it for some. Like I said I'm far more comfortable bowling to Sehwag even in the subcontinent than against someone who can counter me tactically and adjust his game to negate my strengths, like Sachin did every single innings and what made him so dominant against top bowlers. e.g. a Gavaskar here would spell trouble for me, I know he will wear out my opening bowlers and no matter how accurate or quick we try to bowl he will not give an inch. It's far more difficult bowling against those people than against the ones who are always due an error.

Sachin, Gavaskar, Viv. These are absolute legends who are in a different league to Sehwag. There's no arguments to be had there from anyone. Viru is as likely to perish for 10 odd as he is to get a big century though and the odds get better because of the pitch.

 

[Moby]

Viru is as likely to perish for 10 odd as he is to get a big century though and the odds get better because of the pitch.

Pretty much and that scope of error would be punished here, it's a legit weakness when you look at the two teams and negates his toss winning advantage.

 

[prath92]

Normally yes but again not in front of the bowlers whose style of play and quality is precisely what you need to trouble them.
This is what will happen at the start of day 1, not all the time of course but as I said one of the most certain things in this game:

Or this ?

 

[Moby]

Sachin, Gavaskar, Viv. These are absolute legends who are in a different league to Sehwag. There's no arguments to be had there from anyone. Viru is as likely to perish for 10 odd as he is to get a big century though and the odds get better because of the pitch.

And like I said I'd have Graeme Smith ahead of Sehwag, who's more his contemporary in terms of quality. I value out-thinking your opponent very highly and that is what matters the most in tough situations, specially in a 1v1 sport like cricket. And Sehwag's probably singing songs in his head when facing Roberts and Pollock. It has frustrated me throughout his career, that a man with so much talent couldn't even at a later stage had even a little bit of thought process on how to play according to the situation.

 

[Moby]

Or this ?

My post was in relevance to the style of bowling I had against Sehwag, not that you cannot find a video of him playing well against an accurate bowler. All arguments made in a hypothetical game reside on probabilities and odds, not absolutes.

 

[prath92]

My post was in relevance to the style of bowling I had against Sehwag, not that you cannot find a video of him playing well against an accurate bowler. All arguments made in a hypothetical game reside on probabilities and odds, not absolutes.

Exactly. As Varun said, Sehwag in subcontinent is more capable of taking on any bowling than otherwise. Of course you will find instances of him getting out cheaply but he is more than capable of playing the same bowlers off the attack.

 

[Varun]

And like I said I'd have Graeme Smith ahead of Sehwag, who's more his contemporary in terms of quality. I value out-thinking your opponent very highly and that is what matters the most in tough situations, specially in a 1v1 sport like cricket. And Sehwag's probably singing songs in his head when facing Roberts and Pollock. It has frustrated me throughout his career, that a man with so much talent couldn't even at a later stage had even a little bit of thought process on how to play according to the situation.

I'd probably have Smith over him too, atleast definitely if the tests were abroad. Re Sehwag, I think his carefree attitude is what made him the cricketer he was. I cannot see him playing a 100 ball 20 innings even if he tried. He'd just lose it after a while and get put.

Pretty much and that scope of error would be punished here, it's a legit weakness when you look at the two teams and negates his toss winning advantage.

It's a weakness yes but it's not like he hadn't done well against such bowling attacks. As you say to Prath, it's a matter of probability when it comes to drafts and you have to admit he's as likely to have a big ton as he is to going out early in this game.

 

[Moby]

Exactly. As Varun said, Sehwag in subcontinent is more capable of taking on any bowling than otherwise. Of course you will find instances of him getting out cheaply but he is more than capable of playing the same bowlers off the attack.

It's not an instance, it's a pattern throughout his career.
And what is important is the comparison here, when you can have batsmen who don't pose the uncertainty like Sehwag does, you'd qualify that as a weakness that will hurt his team. Put it like this:
He smashes a big score, I'll get a draw.
He goes early crippling his team's advantage and putting me in a strong position for the second innings, which is always a possible scenario with Sehwag.

 

[Moby]

you have to admit he's as likely to have a big ton as he is to going out early in this game.

I admit that, and you don't want that 50-50 scenario from a key batsman who needs to perform to give you that advantage you gained by winning the toss in such a tough game. There's nothing to defend Sehwag's lack of reliability, specially relatively.