In Australia he got 13 wkts from 4 Mtchs at average of 35.23,considering the fielding standards of Pakistan i would say its not bad. Cairns could be decent stock bowlers for Skills.
Test Cricket draft: FINAL : Aldo vs Skills @ MCG, Melbourne
- Thread starter The Man Himself
- Start date
In Australia he got 13 wkts from 4 Mtchs at average of 35.23,considering the fielding standards of Pakistan i would say its not bad. Cairns could be decent stock bowlers for Skills.
You are equating all away games as games in Aus/Eng, which is simply not true.
In Australia he has 13 wickets in 8 innings at an average of 35. With 6 wickets coming in one innings alone.
Not sure that should be a factor unless we know of lots of catches being dropped in those 4 matches. Even if we know, given we don't know of similar situations for others, it can't be a factor.
I added his record in aus/south africa/nz and eng as I dont believe there is that much variety between the pitches nowadays. Thats a very respectable record while playing for a weaker side.
See above, thats aus,sa,nz and eng. All four countries have similar condition and in a draft where the ground is just an indicator I believe thats a better comparision.
Fair point mate.
All those 4 are not at all similar, even now. Note that in modern times also, Australia prepares batting friendly wickets against India (partially driven by commercial reasons and partially I guess knowing India's bowling is so shit otherwise too that in batting conditions they will never get 20 wickets). If you see their wickets in Ashes when Mitch Johnson destroyed England, they were very different to those vs India. The ball never swings as much in Australia as much in NZ/Eng. Eng pitches are slower as well compared to Australia.
Those numbers contain two matches in Srilanka in 2006 when he averaged 10! Once we remove that from the equation, his average increases.
Still thats not the main point here, as the conditions in NZ are nowhere similar to conditions in Australia and cannot be used as a barometer to gauge Asif's performance in Australia.
Al bowlers, Skills' 5 and Aldo's 4, do worse in Australia including Mcgrath. Only for McGrath, Holding and Roberts the difference compared to career average is less than or equal to 2. Steyn, Willis average little less than 30. Asif, Pollock and Bedser all above 30. If I have to make fair comparison, I would like to filter down McGrath further because as it is his home country, his record must be including some matches against Zimbabwe as well. Not sure if his avg worsens slightly because of that.
We can't just go by averages as sometimes a v.good bowler ends with a mediocre average even after bowling well if there is no support from team mates. Here, both teams have a good collective bunch who can complement each other. But if it is fine margins like this, then it is perhaps only way to judge.
We can't just go by averages as sometimes a v.good bowler ends with a mediocre average even after bowling well if there is no support from team mates. Here, both teams have a good collective bunch who can complement each other. But if it is fine margins like this, then it is perhaps only way to judge.
Aldo's bowling attack would win this game, not to mention Pollock who not only was an outstanding bowler but was very useful with the bat too.
How so? He is by far a better keeper than Walcott.
What are Walcott's credentials as a keeper that make him eligible to keep against the swing and pace of the likes of McGrath and Steyn? Tallon kept to Lindwall, Miller and O'Reilly and magnificently at that.
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That's not my understanding of the MCG in particular. Then again, I might be focusing too much on one pitch. I still don't think Australian pitches favor batting first much though, and no one is fielding any spinners to take proper advantage of day 4/5 deterioration.
But still Australians prefer to bat first most of the time when they had won the toss.
Its not necessary to be that only spinners take advantages of last day pitch, fast bowlers can too exploit it well,you would find those cracks on pitch especially on 5th day and when ball pitching on one of those may produce odd cut or might keep low which might be difficult for batsmen to predict it.
The biggest mismatch on the pitch is by far Lawry and Langer facing Holding and Roberts right at the start of the match at Melbourne.
You need a top notch opening pair there to face those two together at full pelt, given their variety and ability which they will use fully to their advantage.
Check out what Holding does to Boycott, a better opener than either of the two Skills has played here.
That's his first ball to Geoff Boycott in that unbelievable over where he gets him out at the end.
You need a top notch opening pair there to face those two together at full pelt, given their variety and ability which they will use fully to their advantage.
Check out what Holding does to Boycott, a better opener than either of the two Skills has played here.
That's his first ball to Geoff Boycott in that unbelievable over where he gets him out at the end.
Talking about his batting credentials.
Ok, but he's coming in at number 8, possibly 9 depending if we are well set in the second innings and want to continue the late tail-end fireworks being carried out by Pollock where Holding can be sent to do that.
I have 6 top notch specialist batsmen, which is more than good enough for any test. It's not like Cairns is scoring a century at 7 for him.
Had two draft games in the same day to contend with, man.Where were you in the SF when holding and garner were bowling to these openers?
Think people are saying that Tallon is pretty weak as a batsman and cannot be relied upon to provide runs. Also, it was Walcotts back problems that made him give up wicket-keeping. You just can't say that he was a bad keeper or an inferior keeper. Anyways its a moot point as he will be keeping to the likes of Cairns, Asif, Steyn and Mcgrath and not Warne, Murali or Kumble.
Cairns will barely contribute 20 with the bat and in all probability go wicketless. You know my thoughts on such players, absolutely no use in a match of such quality. I mentioned tallon because NM pointed out his batting which he's right to do but for me, he won't be needed as you said.
I believe in specialists, 6 + 4 top ones win you the test. Cairns, Shakib etc are pointless.
We lost by 1 vote
Like I said above, both of us are relying on our top 6 to make the difference with the runs. Tallon comes in at 8, as opposed to Dale Steyn who is coming in at 8 for him. So how does he have an advantage in terms of batting depth? Tallon was still a regular batsman part of the batting order for the Invincibles and has 9 FC centuries to his name. He may not provide a lot of runs but he'll be a lot better than Steyn at staying on the crease to partner a set batsman at the other end.
Walcott's keeping simply pales in comparison to Tallon's who has an argument to be one of the greatest ever, I don't understand how keeping to Asif, Steyn and McGrath suddenly is doable by anyone, who were the pacers of similar calibre specially in terms of swing to which Walcott kept?
There's no question that his keeping ability is a weakness in a game of this magnitude where one dropped catch or a misjudgement of bounce can prove extremely costly. If you are not going to give Tallon credit in terms of keeping in comparison to Walcott then there's little I can do here. One of the most obvious outcomes of this match-up, as far as I am concerned.
Yes, and I had read your match as well. I was already really tied up with the two games going on simultaneously plus regular weekday stuff, and also in football drafts we actually have a written rule that semi finalists don't vote in each other's games as it directly plays a part in deciding who they will face, to which I agree and hence refrained in the end.We lost by 1 vote
Not to say I knew who I was going to vote for, it was a pretty close one then.
Precisely.
As far as keeping goes, you'll be lucky to find a greater name. The likes of Bradman and Davo have great things to say about him like I quoted above, but most importantly one of the greatest keepers himself Evans raved about him.
How many keepers have won the Wisden Cricketer of the Year award? Should tell you something about his impact on the game, nevertheless in a side like the Invincibles where he was surrounded by star players yet managed to stand out.
It's pretty unfair if he doesn't get his due credit here, specially as Skills keeper doesn't compare anywhere to that and moreover is batting at no. 3 which is likely to put a lot more pressure on him. Keeping for a day or so and then coming to bat at 3, specially against my opening bowlers who are likely to bring in Walcott early to the pitch? His keeping or batting will suffer, like it usually does for such keeper-batsmen who bat ahead in the order.
Worth considering, if I lose this Tendulkar has lost all 4 matches in this draft. Where's the Indian national pride?
Alright, never mind.
As I said, Walcott gave up wicketkeeping after 15 tests because of his back problems. So its really difficult to say whether he was good or bad against seam or swing bowling. But he was picked in the Windies team for his wicket-keeping abilities. Surely that would suggest that he was at least a decent wicket-keeper who was not prone to fumbling catches.
Anyways, I just don't think Walcotts wicket-keeping abilities is really something this match turns on or would be the deciding factor.
Also, he has Cairns coming in at 7 surely he is the better batsman than Shaun Pollock.
The bigger problem that Skills' team has is that there is no partner for Cairns to score runs with. Not that anyone expects Cairns to make much difference, but in Asif, Willis, McGrath and Steyn he has 4 nos. 11 making up the players with whom Cairns will have to make a partnership going, which seems very unlilkely.
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Voted Skills.
@harshad
10/10. Top post. Will read again.
10/10. Top post. Will read again.
Opening bowlers with the new ball have to the damage here for either team to win - only one of them is facing the Greatest Opening Pair in history of the game. While Michael Holding and Andy Roberts - one half of possibly the greatest bowling attack ever - are bowling to Bill Lawry and Justin Langer. Solid batsmen no doubt, but they won't know what hit them.
Early in-roads at the start again, puts the team batting first under immense pressure. Something I would never have to face and my batting order is always likely to stay in command and control of the game, as opposed to repairing the damage done by the top order.
Lawry, Langer and Walcott who'll be coming into bat after keeping for an entire innings - against a full pelt barrage of Holding and Roberts with the new ball. Take your pick.
Early in-roads at the start again, puts the team batting first under immense pressure. Something I would never have to face and my batting order is always likely to stay in command and control of the game, as opposed to repairing the damage done by the top order.
Lawry, Langer and Walcott who'll be coming into bat after keeping for an entire innings - against a full pelt barrage of Holding and Roberts with the new ball. Take your pick.
I do feel you are attacking Walcott a little too much there. It's a lot more easier standing 20 yards behind the stumps rather than right up close to them. In that sense, I really don't see either keeper underperforming in their duties. But when it does come to batting, his keeper has the superior advantage imo. Yes, he's coming in at 3. But he's also batting first, so worst case scenario, his 2nd Innings might not be as good as the first.
Commenting on your earlier post, I wouldn't really rate Holding's batting in a draft of this nature. But you still have 6.5 excellent batsmen with Skills also having the same 6.5. The gulf in class is surely the bowling though.
I will just assume you are referring to the edited post
Exactly my point.
I would have even understood if he had someone like Imran or Botham coming in at 7 or 8 or a Gilchrist, but both batting line ups comprise of 6 specialist batsmen. Also, tail-enders value is a lot more in staying on the crease than scoring runs, and Tallon would do that better than Dale Steyn, no doubt.
Cairns against my bowling attack is likely not to contribute much either, which makes Tallon's batting ability rather irrelevant.
No doubt Walcott was never a weakness as a keeper but it's one thing to be a solid keeper but another one to have credentials keeping against Ray Lindwall, who was one of the fastest bowlers of his generation, Keith Miller and Bill O'Reilly and win the Wisden Cricketer of the Year award in an year which had that famous England tour. Walcott's keeping, or most other keepers for that matter, cannot stand up to that measure.
Agreed. If it does come to it, Tallon and Pollock at 7-8 are a slightly better bet than his 7-8. Might come in handy in the 4th Innings if it comes to it.
I did wish each team had atleast one spinner though. This all out pace attack from each sides does some injustice to the spinners.
Yet you picked him Mr Engineer
Yeah, I don't think Cairns is adding much value with the bat. I wonder how it would look had he dropped Cairns and retained Amla in his starting 11. Would have been a better match up between the two teams.
Sure do!I will just assume you are referring to the edited post
He still would have struggled with the bowling imo. Cairns atleast will add something with the ball. He is an intelligent bowler, has some good variety. Any swing, and he will relish it. Has a good slower one on him too if I am not mistaken.
Had he got Garner instead of sachin, subbed Cairns out and played swann, he would probably have won this game.