I agree, we have been completely spoilt in the last 15 odd years but you can understand why people compare that era with what's going on right now given how fresh it in everyone's memories. Djokovic winning the next 6-10 Slams in a row also won't really be dull or boring as long as there's genuine competition through the draw and a lot of memorable matches to go with it. Right now we're in this phase where guys who looked promising 3-5 years ago (Zverev, Thiem, Tsitsipas, Shapovalov and co) have either gotten injured or just drastically declined, those who looked promising in the last year or two (Berretini and FAA) who have been either injured or rubbish. Given that Medvedev blows hot and cold and is largely a non-entity in 50% of the Slams in a year, any thrill at the top end of men's tennis right now is pretty much single handedly on the shoulders of Alcaraz and his ability to challenge Novak over five sets and across Slams. I don't care if he wins or not on Sunday but I really hope we finally get a Big Slam match this year that's one for the ages.
Tennis 2023
- Thread starter GuybrushThreepwood
- Start date
Alcaraz vs Djokovic final is the final which I hope everyone wanted. For some reason I think this will be far more interesting than RG match. RG match would have been historic if Alcaraz could sustain physicality. Not sure if it is me, but Wimbledon appears fast this time around. I don't think physicality will be a variable a all.
Djokovic has been far from impressive so anything can happen in the final.
Yeah, impossible to predict. I think it might be like Thiem match in Australia, but who knows. One guy can have a bad day.
One thing I know: previous matches don't mean much. The guy who can relax and hit freely might dominate or both could be tight and match be a grindfest. Can we finally see a match where both guys are going for it ? Just relentless slugfest? Nah, but we can hope.
Djokovic has been far from impressive so anything can happen in the final.
Yeah, impossible to predict. I think it might be like Thiem match in Australia, but who knows. One guy can have a bad day.
One thing I know: previous matches don't mean much. The guy who can relax and hit freely might dominate or both could be tight and match be a grindfest. Can we finally see a match where both guys are going for it ? Just relentless slugfest? Nah, but we can hope.
Based on grand slams, it is totally uncompetitive, like (in my opinion, a worse version of) Federer 04-07. The only reason he loses is if he finds a new way to get himself DQ.
I completely agree, you hope Sinner and Rune (though I doubt it tbh) can be meaningful in the next year or two alongside Novak's decline that has to come soonish but it would obviously have been miles better if one or two of the previous two crops before Alcaraz/sinner/Rune had really stepped up in level to consistently challenge or enter a meaningful rivalry rather than always feeling like you were waiting and hoping for a Novak drop off, which is a shitty mindset.
They haven't though across the board, disappointingly. But I still think there's broadly great tennis to watch despite that and it also is just more testament to Novak's greatness.
Nope. You've just tried to the move posts as per usual when called out on your insane bias. The Aussie Open is a more completive field and open because everyones fit and generally raring to go, Novak has 10 out 18, losing 8 times, and having multiple highly competitive matches against multiple opponents that went the distance - Nadal, Federer, Murray, Wawrinka, Tsonga all had epics with him, and there's a lot more that have been strongly competitive 4 setters etc.
In comparison, Nadal is 14 of 18 with 1 withdrawal, so only 3 losses, and realistically, in that run, there's been 4-5 highly competitive matches - essentially with 2 opponents, of which only actually one went the distance.
The more recent run is kind of comparable sure, but it's also the only time people started making a song and dance about the "easier run" criticism. No one was saying it about Federer, who in his 2 back to back 5 winning runs, had very little competitive full distance matches outside of Nadal, nor was he really all that tested up until facing Nadal at the French either, but no one gave a feck. But the outlier here? Hey look, the Aussie Open... a miraculous Safin performance that doesn't get the love it deserves because everyone just wanted Federer to continue winning and Djokovic's breakthrough, that also didn't get the respect it deserved because Federer lost.
Djokovic deals with a load of shit, but this shouldn't be one... even if he wins this one in a somewhat competitive final - it'd be a more interesting run than off the top of my 6 of Federer's, as well as his whole US run, and well... 12 of Nadal's Roland Garros'. Both the Hurkacz and Rublev were good despite tipping towards the inevitable.
People love dominance until it's not their guy or team.
I'm not even giving Novak shit but? It's not his fault or problem that he's not got anyone good enough to challenge and, to be honest, given that he's had to deal with Federer and/or Rafa his entire career, its hard to even begrudge him the current field. You're trying to make this about my (or other fans') biases with respective to their favorites when that is too narrow a view. I've backed Novak as GOAT for years on here, he's already passed Rafa and I couldn't care less if he goes on to touch 30 Slams at this point so this has nothing to do with "my guy". Sure, I'd enjoy the dominance if it was Rafa in place of Novak right now but irrespective of whose favorite is doing it, its impossible to acknowledge the dearth of any real challengers to this dominance. Even if we accept Nadal making RG complete domination and boring, that was still one Slam a year, which is incomparable to the kind of all-Slam dominance we're seeing right now and again, it's the complete lack of anyone even remotely being capable of even taking Novak to 5 sets, let alone beating him, is what's worrying about the level of tennis. The man is the GOAT and he's still phenomenal but at this age, it shouldn't be this easy for him.
Carlos aside, I concur that this is probably what the last next generation really hopes for and believes is the only way to win Slams. If that's what they're hoping for though, they'll face a lot of disappointment because given Novak's supreme fitness, I don't see him easing off in the next two years unless he starts hitting balls at umpires and ball girls all over the Slams. Or unless Covid makes a strong comeback.
Let’s be clear: nobody is begrudging Djokovic for being the GOAT and toying with three gen of opponents at 36. In fact, we can easily see that Hurkacz, Rublev and even Sinner were pretty near his level for most of their games. Point is, in the clutch zone the supremely experienced Novak (with a number of epic five setters in the past, both won and lost, under his belt) is unmatched by a long long distance, so that nobody can really think they can go the distance and win against him in normal conditions, be it three, four or five sets. They can just hope he self-sabotages himself, which basically makes every Slam a procession until he decides he has enough or his body gives up, not following his mind any more.
Honestly mate, you’re arguing the opposite. Few people that liked Federer or Nadal were single player fans.
Love this quote.
Even this one earlier in the tournament.
It would be more interesting if there was a classic match in there but the dynamic is quite interesting and I think Djokovic is loving it.
Even this one earlier in the tournament.
It would be more interesting if there was a classic match in there but the dynamic is quite interesting and I think Djokovic is loving it.
Maybe I'm completely off on this but I feel like he's also trying to whip up a rivalry and get these players to really challenge him. It would be more motivating for him also to have the gauntlet thrown down at him given the guy has only ever known major rivalries during his career.
I can definitely envisage a scenario in which Djokovic wins a competitive battle tomorrow, and then Alcaraz gains revenge by beating him in New York in September and preventing him from winning the calendar grand slam. I'm firmly rooting for Alcaraz to win tomorrow though. I find him a lot of fun to watch.
As this is Wimbledon, I'd make Djokovic the 60-40 favourite, while if this was a US Open final, I'd back Alcaraz to win. Things tend to land in Djokovic's favour (at least on tennis court) in Melbourne and Wimbledon, while they tend to land against him at the US Open. Title-wise, he has basically overachieved at Wimbledon, and underachieved at the US Open (though winning it 3 times is still of course very impressive). He could easily have something like 4 Wimbledon titles and 6 US Open titles, instead of 7 Wimbledon titles and 3 US Open titles.
A another example of that was Borg. He tended to have luck on his side at Wimbledon, but against him at the US Open. Instead of 5 Wimbledon titles and 0 US Open titles, he could easily have instead won 3 Wimbledon titles and 2 US Open titles, though in those days Wimbledon was clearly the biggest grand slam and the individual Wimbledon title count was more important than the overall grand slam title count.
As this is Wimbledon, I'd make Djokovic the 60-40 favourite, while if this was a US Open final, I'd back Alcaraz to win. Things tend to land in Djokovic's favour (at least on tennis court) in Melbourne and Wimbledon, while they tend to land against him at the US Open. Title-wise, he has basically overachieved at Wimbledon, and underachieved at the US Open (though winning it 3 times is still of course very impressive). He could easily have something like 4 Wimbledon titles and 6 US Open titles, instead of 7 Wimbledon titles and 3 US Open titles.
A another example of that was Borg. He tended to have luck on his side at Wimbledon, but against him at the US Open. Instead of 5 Wimbledon titles and 0 US Open titles, he could easily have instead won 3 Wimbledon titles and 2 US Open titles, though in those days Wimbledon was clearly the biggest grand slam and the individual Wimbledon title count was more important than the overall grand slam title count.
That felt like an important game for Jabeur. It had looked like nerves were starting to kick in. Interesting match so far but it feels like it's mostly Jabeur's errors that are keeping it interesting.
Yes, can't imagine this will be much of a fight unless Jabeur let's the occassion get to her.
Jabeur's first serve is costing her so far. This set should already be over.
Vondrousova is getting better. Jabeur isn't. I hope she can get her nerves under control.
Jabeur mentally lost that first set in the third game. Instead of steamrolling Vondrousova, she let her back in and couldn't get her service game off the ground.
She has to win the next few games. Just got to hold her service games.
She has to win the next few games. Just got to hold her service games.
First serves letting Jabeur down here. That said, Vondrousova is giving very little away, she plays every point and doesn't seem to make many unforced errors.
It's been so disappointing. She's really throwing this away.
Gotta have mental strength for tennis. Skills are just part of it.
Huh, I switched to the Feyenoord friendly after midway throigh the first set. Jabeur let the occasion get to her then?
Unfortunately, yes. She's made too many mistakes.
I think she'll drop this service game and that'll be that.
Too bad, I like Jabeur, she seems like a friendly person. Though Vondrousova might be too, dont know here really.
How can she win some points so easily as if she's swatting a fly, but then go smash the ball into the net or about 10 foot long in the next point.
Vondrousova serving for the match.
3 match points...
I've enjoyed watching her through this tournament and wanted her to win last year, too.
But, it's sad to say that I'm starting to wonder if she'll fall into that 'nearly' category. Clearly a very good player, but she's completely fluffed it here today. It was all set up for her today to win and she got off to a great start and then just completely crumbled. You just can't do that if you want to win things. This really was her tournament to win and she won't get a better chance. Sad to say, but...what a complete disappointment.
Great final from Vondrousova, agonising stuff from Jabeur. Disappointing match really - way too many unforced errors to be a good contest.
Yeah this will feel even worse than last year
It's hard to watch when neither player can hold their own serve. I agree that it was disappointing.
Clearly learnt from her French Open final defeat
It did feel like the weight of expectations got to her today. I don't know how she gets past that.
Amazing for Vondrousova who seems really cool!
Gutted for Ons and an awful final really, total flop and that will be a big blow to recover from now, this is much worse than last year!
Lovely scenes in her box!
Gutted for Ons and an awful final really, total flop and that will be a big blow to recover from now, this is much worse than last year!
Lovely scenes in her box!
That has to be the worst-ever performance in a grand slam final. Feel for Ons - no idea how she'll recover from this.
Didn't watch today but will be a tough one to recover from. Losing to Rybakina and Swiatek in finals is fair enough, but to seemingly not play well and lose in straight sets to a player you're favorite against will hurt.
I hooe she can get across the line one day but that kind of baggage can linger.
Occasion got to her.
If she wins it next year, I'd love to see biopic of the 3 years. That would be good shit.
If she wins it next year, I'd love to see biopic of the 3 years. That would be good shit.
Vondrousova's sister though... 
Honestly, I think it's far more likely she makes it a hat-trick of defeats. Mentally, she was all over the place today. Can't remember that last time I saw a competitor crumble that badly in a final. She knew it as well.
Yeah she got broke too many times at critical moments,started off well but didn't take a firm grip on that first set.
I do think that Jabeur puts far too much pressure on herself, in terms of representing Africa and Arab world. Yes of course a woman from Tunisia winning a grand slam title would have been a tremendous storyline, and it was certainly one that I wanted to see.
But ultimately away from the Olympics and team competitions, players in reality are representing themselves and not their countries.
Unfortunately she hit too many UEs today, her backhand was ineffective, and Vondrousova feasted on her serve.
But ultimately away from the Olympics and team competitions, players in reality are representing themselves and not their countries.
Unfortunately she hit too many UEs today, her backhand was ineffective, and Vondrousova feasted on her serve.