ten Hag vs The Players - Who do you think will win out?

Nah, it's time to start winning again.

I'm sure this set of players had enough of incompetent {Ole}, revengefull {Jose} and uninteresed {Ralph} managers and that ETH is a breath of fresh air to them.

They are probably also aware this is the last train for them to success. Fail under another manager, this time a real manager, and it's over for them.

I have a really good feeling about this.

It's gonna be a good season.
 
DavelinaJolie said:
I'm not sure how you draw the conclusion that feeling less restricted by Ronaldos presence not being there means less accountability? There's clearly a feeling that players need to feed Ronaldo opportunities which curbs other aspects of their play. That's not about accountability?
Click to expand...
No no, you just don't understand, the problem can't possibly be Ronaldo; it has to be everyone else that is just incapable of handling his "winner's mentality".
 
flappyjay said:
There you go, the team was trash because of poor backing and that got him sacked. Jose was not sacked for Pogba but for poor results.
Click to expand...
And how did those poor results come about? Jose has a lot of the blame but evidently the player he called out went out to be chronically inconsistent even after him. And the lack of backing set the precedent.
 
Last edited:
It absolutely has to be the manager.
And by getting rid of at least some of the players, the squad will take on board his methods and requirements.
It has got to work this time.
 
I think that it depends on recruitment, as always. Get the right quality and personalities in and it will carry a few of the stragglers in the squad with it.

It's not really ETH versus the players. Any manager has to get respect and trust. He doesn't necessarily have to be loved on a personal level. This is something Ralf massively ballsed up. It's down to the manager and his character and decision making to be able to motivate and inspire a team to follow him and boot out the ones that are unsuitable. So you can't really say "who will win", it's more a case of "how good is ETH?"
 
ole basically won this battle so it can't be that hard to win. mourinho and ralf were so toxic that they brought it on themselves. id see ETH closer to ole than to the other two in how he will deal with players and the media, I can see him standing up for his players and deflecting media attention ala fergie rather than mourinho and ralfs approach of everyone else's fault but theirs. i think this will help him win some loyalty from the dressing room.

Does anyone remember what happened with lvg? was he a kind of middle ground in man management?
 
yumtum said:
From the tweet about Ralf recommending Ronaldo be sold in January but being overruled because fear of fan backlash then it depends on the status of the player.

If the player in question is a fan favourite, then Ten Hag will be right under the bus.
Click to expand...
Who are the fan favourites right now though?

Sure there are players with varying sizes of personal fan clubs, but they are largely neutralised by the armies of people who can’t stand them. Just look at the Ronaldo thread :wenger:

On the subject of which, the vast majority of moderate/reasonable posters seem to be of the view that it hasn’t worked out and it would be better if he left, without spitting bitter bile.
 
I think the balance of power is kind of different this time round. While Ole was popular with fans, he was widely regarded as being a pretty limited manager and that a better manager might have done better with what was regarded as a pretty strong squad. Jose was not much better in terms of performances, but managed to be a lot less popular with fans too (bar a hardcore minority). RR was never really taken seriously, right or wrong. In all these cases the poor performances were generally blamed equally on players and manager, which made finger pointing by players easier.

With ETH, while he may "only" have come from the Dutch league, his record there is just about as good as it could reasonably be. The players at United on the other hand were not only awful last season, but many of them clearly downed tools at the end, and fan sentiment towards the players is as low as I can remember post-Fergie. As a result I think the manager's stock is far higher than the players this season.

Its always easier to get rid of a manager than an entire squad, which is why the chop often falls that way, but in this case I think it'll be a season or two before serious analysis blames the manager over the players. So if there is a fall out this season, I think there will be a lot more people siding with ETH. Not everyone, but tilted more that way than with previous managers.
 
Revaulx said:
Who are the fan favourites right now though?

Sure there are players with varying sizes of personal fan clubs, but they are largely neutralised by the armies of people who can’t stand them. Just look at the Ronaldo thread :wenger:

On the subject of which, the vast majority of moderate/reasonable posters seem to be of the view that it hasn’t worked out and it would be better if he left, without spitting bitter bile.
Click to expand...

There will probably some sort of metric they use, like the highest selling name on the shirt etc see Martial under Mourinho etc.
 
yumtum said:
There will probably some sort of metric they use, like the highest selling name on the shirt etc see Martial under Mourinho etc.
Click to expand...
That was then and this is now.

I’m hopeful that, unlike Woodward, Arnold actually believes that success on the field will lead to financial success.
 
TH will get backed by Murtough as he was the one pushing for him and Arnold agreed, according to many media sources. Murtough wont shit on him and has said he will be given time to develop the team. To me that means if he doesnt get on or cant make a player better, the player will be gone. In his 3rd season I think at least 9/10 players will be his own players in the starting 11, either bought in and/or promoted. As for leaks, the press will always make a mountain out of a molehill with Utd. Training is intense = doesnt like the way they train in the medias eyes.
 
At Ajax the players in the beginning didnt like Ten Hag. Then the results came after a shaky start. Then they became champions and after that had that Champions league run. Funny thing is that i was under the impression he wasnt a big fan of Donny. I think the signings of Frenky and Eriksen are crucial for the football he wants to play. And if the football is good most players and fans will be happy. But dont expect wonders, the transfer budget isnt big enough to solve all the problems in 1 year. A top striker is also needed and there is no budget for that. But who knows and het gets Martial back living up to his potential.
 
Amsterdam90s said:
At Ajax the players in the beginning didnt like Ten Hag. Then the results came after a shaky start. Then they became champions and after that had that Champions league run. Funny thing is that i was under the impression he wasnt a big fan of Donny. I think the signings of Frenky and Eriksen are crucial for the football he wants to play. And if the football is good most players and fans will be happy. But dont expect wonders, the transfer budget isnt big enough to solve all the problems in 1 year. A top striker is also needed and there is no budget for that. But who knows and het gets Martial back living up to his potential.
Click to expand...
Your right about budget being far too small for what we need. Eriksen on a Free will help but we need a CF on a Free also.
 
It has to be Ten Hag

Hopefully, the main antagonists have now left.
If left to manage the team properly, I think Ten Hag has the strength and ability to
turn things around, but there will be a few tantrums on the way.
Probably be a bit of a rollercoaster for us to watch for a while.

Ten Hag way or out
 
If Ronaldo goes really fast, Ten Hag will have a great season.
 
With Pogdawg gone and CR7 possilbly on his way. I don't see any marketable individual in the squad that could make the board consider not backing a manager in a standoff, especially if they can see his project is promising.
 
I'm generally a bit of a cynic and have had enough of modern football, but the starting point of this thread is terrible. They are literally on the same team. If either the manager or players lose out then it follows they all lose out. Do you honestly think that the players (whoever they are) don't want Ten Hag to succeed? Do you think Rashford, Fred, Varane, Dalot, whoever don't want to have a successful career and win medals? Why would their starting point to be against the manager?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sultan
VP89 said:
And how did those poor results come about? Jose has a lot of the blame but evidently the player he called out went out to be chronically inconsistent even after him. And the lack of backing set thr precedent.
Click to expand...
In what world is over $500M spent in 3 seasons not backing?
In what world can a manager claim he has all the tools to win a title (after over $400M spent in two seasons), fail, and the claim he wasn't backed?

Bizarre you keep pushing this false narrative.
 
altodevil said:
We've had successive managers now that have had players drop tools and leak information to the press that they aren't happy under them.

Recently we've had comments from Rashford that training has been difficult under Erik so far.

Ronaldo is set to leave, with it now being leaked that players are happy that they can be more 'expressive' without him. Less accountability on the pitch?

What say you - do you think Erik will win over the players or have enough turnover that a new culture can be instilled?

Or do you think he will end up like the rest of our managers post-Alec after 2/3 years?
Click to expand...
He has to, its that simple because if he doesnt where do we go from here?
 
MackRobinson said:
In what world is over $500M spent in 3 seasons not backing?
In what world can a manager claim he has all the tools to win a title (after over $400M spent in two seasons), fail, and the claim he wasn't backed?

Bizarre you keep pushing this false narrative.
Click to expand...
Where are you pulling these figures from?

Also the false narrative bit is quite hilarious, it's widely reported by pretty much everywhere that he wasnt backed to push on after season 2, where he got 81 points. Ole was backed more and had 74 or something like that, with no fecking cups on top.
 
Players vs manager :lol:

It was players vs manager when Ralf was in charge, because he was a fecking terrible manager who vilified the players from the very start. Not turning the players against you straight away is a pretty low bar for ETH to achieve.
 
flappyjay said:
By saying he wants to leave?
Click to expand...
Ronaldo made his position clear months ago; bring in quality players or I wont be around to watch the fall out. So far we have made one signing and its already July. Ronaldo is a winner, he thrives on competition and he loves Manchester United and wants to help restore the glory days, but that wont happen with our currennt squad; Ronaldo knows this even if our rubbish board dont. Our transfer policy is a joke.
 
VP89 said:
And how did those poor results come about? Jose has a lot of the blame but evidently the player he called out went out to be chronically inconsistent even after him. And the lack of backing set thr precedent.
Click to expand...
Please, not Pogba again; hes gone, thank goodness, forget him. I have.
 
Weird behaviour within the fanbase of setting our players out to be an uncoachable group whose only purpose is to get managers sacked. Goldbridge and co don't help but the negativity with regards to the players is at an irrational high.

By not making CL, all our players got a 20% drop in wages, I'm pretty sure none of them want us to be shite. Our players haven't been good enough and we've made poor management appointments, it really is that simple rather than making our players out to be scheming devils looking to get managers sacked at every turn.
 
Sadly, it's always easier to replace a manager.

We've had something of a clear out this summer, but there are still a few long-term tooldowners still in the squad.

Let's see if the club has learned!
 
redmanx said:
Ronaldo made his position clear months ago; bring in quality players or I wont be around to watch the fall out. So far we have made one signing and its already July. Ronaldo is a winner, he thrives on competition and he loves Manchester United and wants to help restore the glory days, but that wont happen with our currennt squad; Ronaldo knows this even if our rubbish board dont. Our transfer policy is a joke.
Click to expand...
We’re about to sign 3 or 4 players and our transfer policy is a joke?!

It’s Not football manager you don’t just bid snd then boom player is yours. Calm down mate.
 
VP89 said:
Where are you pulling these figures from?

Also the false narrative bit is quite hilarious, it's widely reported by pretty much everywhere that he wasnt backed to push on after season 2, where he got 81 points. Ole was backed more and had 74 or something like that, with no fecking cups on top.
Click to expand...
https://www.transfermarkt.us/manchester-united/alletransfers/verein/985

Incorrect. It was widely reported he wasn't allowed to purchase another central defender after he bought one in consecutive windows. It was also widely reported the board wasn't going to sanction a third consecutive $200M season of spending $200M on transfers after it was clear

a) many of his signing were looking like expensive flops
b) the sqaud was no where near a title challenge he said he could achieve (19 points behind City)

Let's not forget he said himself he was equipped to win the title AND didn't really need a third window after all the transfer business was concluded in the second season. This was BEFORE Alexis Sanchez was signed in the winter.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ho-primed-Premier-League-title-challenge.html
Mourinho could field the most expensive starting XI the Premier League has ever seen, featuring the country's two most expensive players — Pogba and Lukaku — costing a total of around £400m.
....
'Of course to buy lots of good players is important and better squads are better equipped to win the title. That is normal but not enough,' he stresses.

'I think every one of us in his own way is equipped to do it. I think Tottenham without any spending is equipped to win the title because they have fantastic team, fantastic manager, great stability and have been together for a long time.
....
Mourinho's confidence is largely because he feels United are a club that now carries his influence. 'I was thinking I needed three transfer windows, but after two I have a good group and the club as a football club is much better equipped.
Click to expand...

He was backed but not allowed a blank check to fix his mistakes, which were plenty.
 
MackRobinson said:
https://www.transfermarkt.us/manchester-united/alletransfers/verein/985

Incorrect. It was widely reported he wasn't allowed to purchase another central defender after he bought one in consecutive windows. It was also widely reported the board wasn't going to sanction a third consecutive $200M season of spending $200M on transfers after it was clear

a) many of his signing were looking like expensive flops
b) the sqaud was no where near a title challenge he said he could achieve (19 points behind City)

Let's not forget he said himself he was equipped to win the title AND didn't really need a third window after all the transfer business was concluded in the second season. This was BEFORE Alexis Sanchez was signed in the winter.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ho-primed-Premier-League-title-challenge.html


He was backed but not allowed a blank check to fix his mistakes, which were plenty.
Click to expand...
You just quoted an article that claimed Lukaku and Pogba cost 400m.

He got Baily as the only CB and couldn't upgrade in the CB area beyond that. He had to make Smalling and Jones work.

He spent money but proved progression with cups and the biggest tally since SAF. The idea not to back him but then go on to back Ole fecking Solskjaer is just insanely thick
 
Ten Hag all day long, this is a guy that won’t care who you are or how good you are, if you don’t buy into his plans then your out. Ten Hag will be given the time to build and create his own team how he wants.
 
VP89 said:
You just quoted an article that claimed Lukaku and Pogba cost 400m.
Click to expand...
You misread. It said the squad starting XI cost 400m.

VP89 said:
He got Baily as the only CB and couldn't upgrade in the CB area beyond that. He had to make Smalling and Jones work.
Click to expand...
Incorrect. He got Bailly and Lindelöf in consecutive windows.

VP89 said:
He spent money but proved progression with cups and the biggest tally since SAF. The idea not to back him but then go on to back Ole fecking Solskjaer is just insanely thick
Click to expand...
The results flattered the actual performances. Anyone who was actually watching the team would tell you that. Besides the beginning of the season, most of football was barely watchable and results like Sevilla (and his resulting rant about football heritage) didn't inspire any confidence.

If you or I were in charge of Manchester United and allowed him a 200M window after all that, would we not be absolute fools?
 
MackRobinson said:
You misread. It said the squad starting XI cost 400m.
Click to expand...
Unless Jose bought the entire XI, why are you claiming he spent 400m?

MackRobinson said:
Incorrect. He got Bailly and Lindelöf in consecutive windows.
Click to expand...
And what happened to Baily in his first couple years. Il give you a hint, he started very well and something occurred after whichever he was made of glass. Is that Joses fault?
MackRobinson said:
The results flattered the actual performances. Anyone who was actually watching the team would tell you that.
Click to expand...
No they didnt. There was a lot of friction reported between manager and a couple players, and the football wasnt exciting. But we didnt ride our luck as much as you're inferring.

The players he openly mugged off have also been the players who showed the most inconsistency and terrible performances post his departure.

Now I know you're making up history. We scored one of the most since SAF and ended with 81 pts and a goal difference of 40, which if I am not mistaken is one of the widest, if not the widest margin over the course of a season.

MackRobinson said:
Besides the beginning of the season, most of football was barely watchable and results like Sevilla (and his resulting rant about football heritage) didn't inspire any confidence.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this was annoying. But not a reason to forget backing him after doing very well in his second season.
MackRobinson said:
If you or I were in charge of Manchester United and allowed him a 200M window after all that, would we not be absolute fools?
Click to expand...
Well he wanted Perisic, Wilian, Maguire. Maguire we bought for a big fee when he was a year older anyway, Wilian would have been poor but Perisic I think was an astute buy for any club, even Spurs now.

I think what we went on to do was far more foolish. But back to my original point, we didnt back Jose at all post season 2, so dont pretend we did.
 
This player power thing is so greatly exaggerated on here it’s comical. Some of it is used to excuse our previous crap managers. Some of it is blown way out of proportion. Most of it is a reaction to the fact these players have no confidence and no management structure to help lift them out of that. If ETH is worth his salary he will quickly work to boost the confidence and morale of the squad which is the first objective of any decent manager. Ragnick doesn’t understand that and many of his fans didn’t either.
 
VP89 said:
Unless Jose bought the entire XI, why are you claiming he spent 400m?
Click to expand...
He did spend $400M. I posted the TransferMarkt link and you ignored it
https://www.transfermarkt.us/manchester-united/alletransfers/verein/985

VP89 said:
And what happened to Baily in his first couple years. Il give you a hint, he started very well and something occurred after whichever he was made of glass. Is that Joses fault?
Click to expand...
You're shifting goalposts. He bought CBs in consecutive windows and spent a good amount on them. He doesn't get a blank check to continually correct his mistakes.

VP89 said:
No they didnt. There was a lot of friction reported between manager and a couple players, and the football wasnt exciting. But we didnt ride our luck as much as you're inferring.
Click to expand...
Never said they rode their luck, but the results did flatter especially in the latter half of the season (see the 3-2 vs City). Moreover if the football was atrocious and dull why would you allow him to spend $200M again for more of that?

VP89 said:
The players he openly mugged off have also been the players who showed the most inconsistency and terrible performances post his departure.
Click to expand...
He bought most of them...

VP89 said:
Now I know you're making up history. We scored one of the most since SAF and ended with 81 pts and a goal difference of 40, which if I am not mistaken is one of the widest, if not the widest margin over the course of a season.
Click to expand...
Repeating myself again, most of this was due to how they started the beginning of the season. The first 7 games of the season had four 4-0 score lines (+19 differential during that stretch)

VP89 said:
Well he wanted Perisic, Wilian, Maguire. Maguire we bought for a big fee when he was a year older anyway, Wilian would have been poor but Perisic I think was an astute buy for any club, even Spurs now.
Click to expand...
Astute buy? He was signed on a free transfer. Regardless, do you honestly think any of those players would have made United into title contenders? You seem to be trying really hard to save face.

VP89 said:
I think what we went on to do was far more foolish. But back to my original point, we didnt back Jose at all post season 2, so dont pretend we did.
Click to expand...
Didn't back him at all? He spent $90M after the second season and still complained...

Again giving him free rein to buy as he did in the previous two seasons would have been disastrous for the club. It's crazy this is even a debate.
 
Amsterdam90s said:
At Ajax the players in the beginning didnt like Ten Hag. Then the results came after a shaky start. Then they became champions and after that had that Champions league run. Funny thing is that i was under the impression he wasnt a big fan of Donny. I think the signings of Frenky and Eriksen are crucial for the football he wants to play. And if the football is good most players and fans will be happy. But dont expect wonders, the transfer budget isnt big enough to solve all the problems in 1 year. A top striker is also needed and there is no budget for that. But who knows and het gets Martial back living up to his potential.
Click to expand...
That’s interesting.

I’d love it if Donny comes good here, but I’ve never been convinced that ETH has any great sentimental attachment to him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.