4 for 4 this season
Teams results after taking points from United
- Thread starter SER19
- Start date
I did this thread a year ago (great minds) and I thought of this thread when I saw Spurs' result.
With the amount of thrashings we've had and leads lost I think it points to us cowering and being mentally fragile.
It's got to a point where we're shitting our pants at home to Spurs for two seasons. We go into games not asserting ourselves against lower teams like Palace. I don't see these teams game raising that much, it's us cowering and making most teams look like world beaters, even championship teams last season. Our CL last season and now Twente, fold again while 2-0 at Porto.
We'll probably make Everton look good, and have commentators saying if Everton could play like this each they wouldn't be near the bottom of the league, when in reality we're worried about them and not confident in ourselves.
It's got to a point where we're shitting our pants at home to Spurs for two seasons. We go into games not asserting ourselves against lower teams like Palace. I don't see these teams game raising that much, it's us cowering and making most teams look like world beaters, even championship teams last season. Our CL last season and now Twente, fold again while 2-0 at Porto.
We'll probably make Everton look good, and have commentators saying if Everton could play like this each they wouldn't be near the bottom of the league, when in reality we're worried about them and not confident in ourselves.
Everybody tries harder against Man United. Even though We are completely bang average these days We are still a big scalp and those opposition players can tell their grandkids they played in a team that beat United. You only have to look at some of these teams celebrating like the just won the UCL final.
It is true, teams tend to try to win Cup final against us, once they do, many games after they lose or draw, and it is not only with Erik, regardless how much you hate him.
10/11 season under SAF we lost against Arsenal 1-0 away in 35th round, only for them to lose against Stoke 3-1 week later, to Villa week after that and drew last game of the season with Fulham. 1 point in three games.
We won two (Chelsea, Blackpool) drew Blackburn. 7 poinst in three games.
2008, Arsenal wins 2-1, Rafael scored at the of the game. Arsenal lost 2-1 against Stoke again week later. Week after they had 4-4 with Spurs.
We won our next two games, Hull and WHU.
18/19 season under Ole Arsenal won 2-0, 30th game of the season. 8 games left. They went on to win 3 (Newcastle, Burnley, Watford) drew one (Brighton) lost 4 ((Palace, Wolves, Leicester and Everton)
19/20 Palace won 2-0 at OT, 36th game of the season, next 2 games loss (Wolves) and a draw (Spurs). 1 point.
Liverpool, after wining their Cup final at Anfield (you know which game) lost 2 (Bournemouth, City) drew 2 (Arsenal, Chelsea) and won 1 (Leeds) in the next 5 games. Leeds was the fifth game. 5 points.
We, in the same period of time lost one, drew one, won three. 10 poins.
Can go on and on with this play like Brazil 1970, win th Cup final against United only to drop lots of points after and play rubbish, but I have to work a little bit..
10/11 season under SAF we lost against Arsenal 1-0 away in 35th round, only for them to lose against Stoke 3-1 week later, to Villa week after that and drew last game of the season with Fulham. 1 point in three games.
We won two (Chelsea, Blackpool) drew Blackburn. 7 poinst in three games.
2008, Arsenal wins 2-1, Rafael scored at the of the game. Arsenal lost 2-1 against Stoke again week later. Week after they had 4-4 with Spurs.
We won our next two games, Hull and WHU.
18/19 season under Ole Arsenal won 2-0, 30th game of the season. 8 games left. They went on to win 3 (Newcastle, Burnley, Watford) drew one (Brighton) lost 4 ((Palace, Wolves, Leicester and Everton)
19/20 Palace won 2-0 at OT, 36th game of the season, next 2 games loss (Wolves) and a draw (Spurs). 1 point.
Liverpool, after wining their Cup final at Anfield (you know which game) lost 2 (Bournemouth, City) drew 2 (Arsenal, Chelsea) and won 1 (Leeds) in the next 5 games. Leeds was the fifth game. 5 points.
We, in the same period of time lost one, drew one, won three. 10 poins.
Can go on and on with this play like Brazil 1970, win th Cup final against United only to drop lots of points after and play rubbish, but I have to work a little bit..
Brighton's next game was Arsenal away...bit of a hard one to win that.
4 teams took points from United in gamweeks 1-6, all 4 failed to win their next game.
United took points from 3 teams in gameweeks 1-6 and failed to win all 3 of our next games so we're the same game raisers. (Lost v Brighton after beating Fulham, drew with Palace after beating Southampton, lost to Spurs after drawing with Palace)
Can only do weeks 1-6 because while we've played 7, we don't know the next result yet.
Actually in the middle of doing this for all teams for this season. Bigger sample sizes would be better but I'm doing it manually and there's no way I've got any desire to do this for multiple seasons as it would take too long.
The biggest take away that I'm getting so far is that after someone takes points against you, whoever you are and whoever they are it's kind of hard for them to win the next game.
Makes sense if you think about it logically too. The average team is more likely to draw or lose any given game than they are to win it for a start. Throw in the fact that a home game is often followed by an away one and you can get this sort of pattern, take points off another in a home match by winning or drawing, fail to win away next match by losing or drawing. A very common pattern due to home advantage.
United took points from 3 teams in gameweeks 1-6 and failed to win all 3 of our next games so we're the same game raisers. (Lost v Brighton after beating Fulham, drew with Palace after beating Southampton, lost to Spurs after drawing with Palace)
Can only do weeks 1-6 because while we've played 7, we don't know the next result yet.
Actually in the middle of doing this for all teams for this season. Bigger sample sizes would be better but I'm doing it manually and there's no way I've got any desire to do this for multiple seasons as it would take too long.
The biggest take away that I'm getting so far is that after someone takes points against you, whoever you are and whoever they are it's kind of hard for them to win the next game.
Makes sense if you think about it logically too. The average team is more likely to draw or lose any given game than they are to win it for a start. Throw in the fact that a home game is often followed by an away one and you can get this sort of pattern, take points off another in a home match by winning or drawing, fail to win away next match by losing or drawing. A very common pattern due to home advantage.
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Clutching at straws here
how about a thread how teams perform before playing us?
how about a thread how teams perform before playing us?
United are game raisers themselves by that logic.
we beat Chelsea early in december and easily lost against Bournemouth the next week.
then we took a point from Liverpool yet lost easily against West Ham right after.
then we managed that comeback against Villa only to lose against Forest after that.
obviously we held Spurs to a draw in our next fixture.
we beat Chelsea early in december and easily lost against Bournemouth the next week.
then we took a point from Liverpool yet lost easily against West Ham right after.
then we managed that comeback against Villa only to lose against Forest after that.
obviously we held Spurs to a draw in our next fixture.
Here's my crappy spreadsheet:
On average teams have dropped points 60.26% of the time in their next game after taking points from anyone in their previous game so far this season.
While it is true that all 4 teams United have dropped points against this season have failed to win their next game, the opponents who have take points from Southampton failed to win in 6 out of 6, Forest 4 out of, Fulham 3 out of 3, and Palace 5 out of 6 in their next matches too.
As pointed out already, United took points from 3 opponents and we failed to win all our next matches as well. Did we game raise v Fulham, Southampton and Palace when we earned points aginst them only not to win next time out?
Only fair to mention it's happened to teams who took points off Arsenal, Villa and Liverpool 100% of the time as bigger sides who you might think are facing "game raisers" but one of Arsenal's was City who drew with Newcastle after taking points from them and it's so all over the place that there's no clear patterns I can make out as it's happening to a lot of the "smaller" teams as well all the time.
I think it's just to difficult to follow up a win or draw with a win in general.
Bears repeating from an earlier post I think fixtures play a part. A lot of the time you'll have a home game where it's easier to pick up points (taking them from your opponent) followed by an away one where it's harder to win and easier for them to take points from you.
On average teams have dropped points 60.26% of the time in their next game after taking points from anyone in their previous game so far this season.
While it is true that all 4 teams United have dropped points against this season have failed to win their next game, the opponents who have take points from Southampton failed to win in 6 out of 6, Forest 4 out of, Fulham 3 out of 3, and Palace 5 out of 6 in their next matches too.
As pointed out already, United took points from 3 opponents and we failed to win all our next matches as well. Did we game raise v Fulham, Southampton and Palace when we earned points aginst them only not to win next time out?
Only fair to mention it's happened to teams who took points off Arsenal, Villa and Liverpool 100% of the time as bigger sides who you might think are facing "game raisers" but one of Arsenal's was City who drew with Newcastle after taking points from them and it's so all over the place that there's no clear patterns I can make out as it's happening to a lot of the "smaller" teams as well all the time.
I think it's just to difficult to follow up a win or draw with a win in general.
Bears repeating from an earlier post I think fixtures play a part. A lot of the time you'll have a home game where it's easier to pick up points (taking them from your opponent) followed by an away one where it's harder to win and easier for them to take points from you.
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another one today, thats 5 from 6. Only villa have won their next one. As many have pointed out this may well just be a confirmation bias, but its nonetheless frustrating to see 
7 from 8 now
My uncle has made a fortune from this trend. At one point, it was as high as 90% of teams dropping points after beating us. It’s still happening today—he always bets on the opposing team not to take full points in their next game, even if it’s one of the top four. This has been going on for years. It seems the modern pro often struggles to raise their game again after securing a result at TOD
thats fascinating. obviously a bigger deal in fergie times, and teams just beat us now anyway, but i still think there's a breathing space teams get after beating united - there's nothing better for their fans still, and there's just a slight edge missing the following week. thats been my theory while we were succesful anyway, but obvioulsy less so now
So Fulham on Sunday you say...
8 times out of 9
I forgot all about this untill my uncle ask me after the game did I lump on Arsenal loss/draw.
Dammit
Forest at home to Villa Saturday evening. Villa banker!
Unlucky spurs unlucky Bournemouth
I really need to start chasing in on this if we are going to carry on loosing
I really need to start chasing in on this if we are going to carry on loosing
Correct me if im wrong but i believe that's now 12 out of 15. Maybe 11.
Southampton after playing their hearts out against us back to being abject shite against every other club. Cnuts.
It is because we are one of the easiest team to get a result against. We are so bad that every team believes that they can beat us so they try, some don't every try and win.
thats defintiely true to a degree, we're very easy to play against. i think what im talking about though is that even some decent teams will get an expected result against us, only to drop points unexpectdely in their next game. 12 from 15 is quite a lot. again not particularly saying theres anything huge to it, but i have noticed it since fergie years. The only possible leaning id have is that beating united gives a team enormous goodwill among fans still, and theres just a subconscious foot off the gas the following game. but thats just a theory