Teams results after taking points from United

SER19

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Is it me, or has this been a trend for a long time? I don't know if there's any way to see if it's actually an outlier in terms of results, but so far this season, all three teams to take points off us, failed to win their next game. It's not just this season, it's something I noticed alot through the years, usually just in frustration of seeing teams give an almighty showing against united only to lose to a poor team with a whimper a week later.

Has anybody else noticed this?

In case it wasn't obviously clear - im not talking about just ten hag. I remember Middlesbrough beating us in 98 as if their lives depended on it then going about 3 months without winning
 
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In the past team has to raise their game against us, but now we are just easy to play against. Teams don’t even have to play well to get a result against us now.

We gave Liverpool what will probably lay be their easiest away win of the season and every other team other than Bournemouth has been a tougher opponent in the league.
 
We're a midtable side under Ten Hag. The idea that anyone needs an 'almighty showing' to get a result against us is hilarious.
 
Any team in the PL playing against ETH side know, they are always in the game even if they are behing and in injurytime. Sometimes it's difficult to see how average a manager is until someone else comes along and totally revolutionises the players (ask Villa fans when Wmery took over from Gerrard) and i hope if Ineos do their job properly, we will be seeing the same thing!
 
In Ole's last game we lost 4-1 to Watford
They went on to lose 6 in a row on an 11 game winless run and never won a home game again that season
 
United is a shit team so it’s easier to take points off United

We finished 8th last season and are currently 11th. We’re a mid table team.
 
I see this is going into anti ten hag predictability. Im talking about over many years not just under ten hag.
 
DOTA said:
You may misunderstood it, I am not sure.

I just mean it is a sign of how tortured we have been over the years that we go looking for these patterns.
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I get that context.

I wasn't looking for a pattern though, myself and some United fan friends noticed it years ago.

Maybe some conformation bias but i do wonder if beating United, even crap United, takes a certain pressure of a team for a week or two, and they lose a bit of an edge. Im not suggesting anybody 'game raises' against modern United
 
Leftback99 said:
Yes but be honest at what prompted it.
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As I've said in the thread, a long run of noticing it. Going back years. May be confirmation bias, but if it's not I've shared my theory on why teams lose an edge after beating United, even current poor United
 
It's obvious really. Playing United is when other teams get the most attention.
 
SER19 said:
I get that context.

I wasn't looking for a pattern though, myself and some United fan friends noticed it years ago.

Maybe some conformation bias but i do wonder if beating United, even crap United, takes a certain pressure of a team for a week or two, and they lose a bit of an edge. Im not suggesting anybody 'game raises' against modern United
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It's still a big deal to beat us, and it isn't an exaggeration to say that for many players it is a 'cup final' of sorts. I'm not saying this so much in the context of them raising their game (for many years, there hasn't always been much of a need) but in terms of the hangover players get after a quick rush of success.

Maybe for players who are used to losing more weeks than they win, that hangover can be exacerbated and obviously when they're scrambling for points anyway, it has even more of an impact.
 
SER19 said:
I see this is going into anti ten hag predictability. Im talking about over many years not just under ten hag.
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One example I remember was the infamous 5-3 Leicester game under Van Gaal. Just checked, they failed to win their next 13 league games.
 
SER19 said:
Is it me, or has this been a trend for a long time? I don't know if there's any way to see if it's actually an outlier in terms of results, but so far this season, all three teams to take points off us, failed to win their next game. It's not just this season, it's something I noticed alot through the years, usually just in frustration of seeing teams give an almighty showing against united only to lose to a poor team with a whimper a week later.

Has anybody else noticed this?

In case it wasn't obviously clear - im not talking about just ten hag. I remember Middlesbrough beating us in 98 as if their lives depended on it then going about 3 months without winning
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Twente didn't give an "almighty showing". They were absolutely god awful. But we are our own worst enemy and our players are just one mistake away from a goal at any given moment in a match, and usually it costs us badly. Even in the final against Man City, Onana gifted them a terrible goal.

To be quite honest, we're not very good. Sure some teams raise their game against us, but I'm pretty certain that these days most of the league tries to raise their game for City or Liverpool too, and generally that's because they have to. For us, they raise their game and beat us - see Brighton or whoever.
 
didz said:
It's still a big deal to beat us, and it isn't an exaggeration to say that for many players it is a 'cup final' of sorts. I'm not saying this so much in the context of them raising their game (for many years, there hasn't always been much of a need) but in terms of the hangover players get after a quick rush of success.

Maybe for players who are used to losing more weeks than they win, that hangover can be exacerbated and obviously when they're scrambling for points anyway, it has even more of an impact.
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Thats part my feeling though obviously I'd need actual data to see if im talking rubbish.

People have jumped on it and willingly pretended I'm suggesting teams have to game raise to beat us these days. I had a quick look at fergies last season and 4 of the 9 teams that took points didn't win the following week, and 1 more went on a terrible run shortly after beating us. (we also drew the final game so no next week game)

That's not a massively convincing stat, about 50%, but taking points off that van persie United team wasn't easy, and even then it didn't seem to inject momentum for teams
 
GazTheLegend said:
Twente didn't give an "almighty showing". They were absolutely god awful. But we are our own worst enemy and our players are just one mistake away from a goal at any given moment in a match, and usually it costs us badly. Even in the final against Man City, Onana gifted them a terrible goal.

To be quite honest, we're not very good. Sure some teams raise their game against us, but I'm pretty certain that these days most of the league tries to raise their game for City or Liverpool too, and generally that's because they have to. For us, they raise their game and beat us - see Brighton or whoever.
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I can see why, but I think you've taken me up wrong. I've tried to clarify in subsequent posts
 
I think just after Fergie teams did raise their level in order to beat us, if they could just run a little faster, try a little harder they'd win.

These days, I'm not even sure teams need to raise their game that much
 
SER19 said:
Thats part my feeling though obviously I'd need actual data to see if im talking rubbish.

People have jumped on it and willingly pretended I'm suggesting teams have to game raise to beat us these days. I had a quick look at fergies last season and 4 of the 9 teams that took points didn't win the following week, and 1 more went on a terrible run shortly after beating us. (we also drew the final game so no next week game)

That's not a massively convincing stat, about 50%, but taking points off that van persie United team wasn't easy, and even then it didn't seem to inject momentum for teams
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Unfortunately we now have a much, much larger sample size of teams beating us in the league and I wouldn't be surprised if that data bore out a more convincing statistics as a result.
 
I remember an old interview with Fergie in the mid 90s when he complained about this sort of thing. He said angrily that players would raise their game so highly against United and revert to being shite the following week, and said if they played to that level consistently they'd be playing for better teams.

If I recall correctly I think this may have been the interview that pushed Keegan over the edge into his "I'd love it if we beat them" rant.
 
I always thought "teams raising their game against us" was actually us shitting the pants, or just other psychological phenomenon that probably has a name. But I certainly don't get the feeling we're losing points because other teams have an amazing game. Maybe it's just an even game that goes wrong for us in the end (feels like that has been the case this season), but not as a rule under Ten Hag, or even under Ole for that matter.
 
SER19 said:
Thats part my feeling though obviously I'd need actual data to see if im talking rubbish.

People have jumped on it and willingly pretended I'm suggesting teams have to game raise to beat us these days. I had a quick look at fergies last season and 4 of the 9 teams that took points didn't win the following week, and 1 more went on a terrible run shortly after beating us. (we also drew the final game so no next week game)

That's not a massively convincing stat, about 50%, but taking points off that van persie United team wasn't easy, and even then it didn't seem to inject momentum for teams
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I have to agree with your original "analysis", as over the years this beating us and failing in their next match has, I feel, been quite a frequent occurrence. Perhaps this recurrence seems bizarre considering our current lame and flawed performances, but I still go with the belief that we , especially in the eyes of opposing players and managers, are a massive club, and a very much prized scalp for them. They possibly put that bit more into playing us, ( god knows why with this motley crew?), and it possibly affects their next game.
 
DavidDeSchmikes said:
In Ole's last game we lost 4-1 to Watford
They went on to lose 6 in a row on an 11 game winless run and never won a home game again that season
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We also fecking drew 0-0 at home with them later that season. I’m pretty sure that we were the only team who failed to beat them that season.
 
Back in the day teams used to up their game when Utd came to town nowadays we are basically playing teams who are our level or know our weaknesses and a manager that doesn’t plan around the opposition .
 
We lost 14 games last season in the PL, of those 14 losses 5 teams failed to win their next game after beating us, 2 of them were Crystal Palace and Nottingham Forest. We're just average, nothing else. I am sure once upon of time teams raised their game way above their average to be able to beat us, don't think that applies anymore
 
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DarkLord1984 said:
I remember an old interview with Fergie in the mid 90s when he complained about this sort of thing. He said angrily that players would raise their game so highly against United and revert to being shite the following week, and said if they played to that level consistently they'd be playing for better teams.

If I recall correctly I think this may have been the interview that pushed Keegan over the edge into his "I'd love it if we beat them" rant.
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Yes you're correct and Ferguson was correct at the time too. I don't think the same thing occurs now as others have pointed out, we're just an easier scalp overall. But despite this, I still think beating Man United remains a high point for plenty of supporters and allows players some breathing room in the following game
 
It's more a sign of how easy we are to beat than the next game for those sides
 
SER19 said:
Is it me, or has this been a trend for a long time? I don't know if there's any way to see if it's actually an outlier in terms of results, but so far this season, all three teams to take points off us, failed to win their next game. It's not just this season, it's something I noticed alot through the years, usually just in frustration of seeing teams give an almighty showing against united only to lose to a poor team with a whimper a week later.

Has anybody else noticed this?

In case it wasn't obviously clear - im not talking about just ten hag. I remember Middlesbrough beating us in 98 as if their lives depended on it then going about 3 months without winning
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You write as if this anomaly is seen with "a world beating side".

I'm sure there is a similar picture with other midtable sides like Bournemouth, Brentford and Everton.

When will people actually realise that we are an upper midtable side? We haven't been an elite side for well over a decade now.
 
TheLord said:
You write as if this anomaly is seen with "a world beating side".

I'm sure there is a similar picture with other midtable sides like Bournemouth, Brentford and Everton.

When will people actually realise that we are an upper midtable side? We haven't been an elite side for well over a decade now.
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I think you've made the same, reasonable misunderstanding as many others. Nothing at all in OP suggests United are a world beating side or have been anything but mediocre for a decade
 
SER19 said:
I think you've made the same, reasonable misunderstanding as many others. Nothing at all in OP suggests United are a world beating side or have been anything but mediocre for a decade
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My point is that this must be a very common theme among upper midtable and lower midtable sides. Nothing that merits a new thread, respectfully.

Yes, if this were to happen with City or Madrid, then it would be something to thoroughly dissect.
 
Denis79 said:
We lost 14 games last season in the PL, of those 14 losses 5 teams failed to win their next game after beating us, 2 of them were Crystal Palace and Nottingham Forest. We're just average, nothing else. I am sure once upon of time teams raised their game way above their average to be able to beat us, don't think that applies anymore
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thanks for doing the numbers on that. Its not quite what was suggested though as you narrowed things to losses for united. Given that we will likely lose to top clubs like city and liverpool, theyre more likely to win their subsequent matches. If you expand to draws, from 6 draws, 5 of those teams failed to win their next game - so assuming your figures are correct, we dropped points in 20 games last season, and 10 times, teams failed to win the following game. So 50%. Again, maybe that's normal and the figure plays out for all clubs. Its just something that occurred to me. Would be interesting to see over seasons but its a lot of work to dig into. So far this season is 100%, but will obviously see how that plays out
 
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