Thanks.
Teacher beheaded near Paris after showing cartoons of Prophet Muhammad
- Thread starter SinNombre
- Start date
Thanks.
Can’t find any from the most recent incident, but here are some that sparked the Danish kerfuffle (violent protests erupted from it):
https://face-of-muhammed.blogspot.com/2006/12/12-muhammed-drawings.html?m=1
As you can see, they were obviously ‘bad’ enough to incite violent riots. Embarrassing.
Hebdo’s were more visceral, just can’t find them all together.
So in killing someone because of the caricatures, you are no more than reinforcing their messages in the first place.
Honest to God the World can be a crazy place at times.
Thanks..
Thanks..
Yeah, so it's not something to turn your nose up at, but it's not an accelerating trend. It's a persisent problem on a relatively small scale. Portraying it that way is what leads people to "the world is going to shit and I wouldn't want to be here in 50 years", which can have very destructive consequences, so it's worth contrasting that portrayal against the facts. On the whole, on this wider issue, things are not getting worse. That doesn't mean they're at an acceptable level nor does it mean they won't blow up again, but the overarching narrative is not so bleak.
I'm from a country that produced and suffered some of the most destructive acts of terrorism against political and religious "others" in the 70s. The only word for chopping off someone's head is barbaric, but that word also perfectly describes the damage done by DIY bombs. It escalated to a crazy level and seemed like an intractable problem, but it did reach a peak, and things did get better. Acts of barbarism still exist on the same ideological grounds but to a much lesser degree. So it is worth recognising when these things peak, and what direction they are actually going in. Otherwise the very act of discussing it as a "war" that is "bubbling up" can indirectly contribute to that problem becoming worse.
Surely the people who have carried out these attacks (especially the original attack) must realise that doing so will mean that the quite obscure caricatures will now be seen worldwide.
Other than money/land and greed, surely religion is responsible for the most murders in human history.
Other than money/land and greed, surely religion is responsible for the most murders in human history.
Absolutely it is. Just look at the crusades. These weren’t for the betterment of the heathen, they were to keep trade routes open through mass slaughter & subjugation.
Deaths for which religions are responsible make those committed by Pol Pot, Hitler, & Stalin look quaint in comparison.
No, not the fault of the victim at all.
Did the attacker have any history of mental illness?
Other than religion?
Thats your opinion, but religion isn't classed as a mental illness where I'm from...I don't believe it is in the US either
At this point you shouldn't mesh up the two together.
- ISIS had a lot of commanders/people from Chechnya, but those are the guys who were active in Chechnya in the 90's/early 00's – and had to flee or be killed
- Current Chechnya certainly has a leaning towards a very radical interpretation of Islam, but the only thing they don't have is ISIS connections. This is the only reason Kadyrov is still at power – basically at some point Putin cut a deal with Kadyrov-senior (who had been blown up by terrorists at some point later) that gave Chechnya a de-facto autonomy & an enormous financial backing in the exchange of them getting rid of their inner radical Islamic terrorism problem
- More so, I'd argue that the current religious radicalisation of Chechnya has only one goal – to create a more controlled state with a certain set of punishable rules around the figure of their national leader (so it's more of a totalitarian state than a truly religious one)
No, it’s not technically, but delusions often lead to poor decisions.
Apparently the teacher was using the Hebdo cartoons in his class:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/charlie-hebdo-cartoons-paris-french-newspaper-shooting_n_6429552
I think we're shocked and horrified by the actual beheading. If the same man is shot i think it really disentizied the issue.
Man lost his life daily for smaller issue than faith, altercations, money, hard feeling etc. Murders happens everywhere on daily basis.
Gotta be honest, reading about random shooting doesnt even made me flinch these days, but actually beheading a person in 2020? That's something. I dont know what to make of it.
I feel the same.
A shooting is instantaneous, the results happen immediately. A beheading is a laborious process, the sheer amount of time spent hacking through bone, skin, sinew, etc., isn't quick at all. Toss in the struggle & noise by the victim, it’s an horrific process.
Shove that ignorant comment up your arse. Islam and any other stupid fecking religion hasn't brought anything but murder and pain upon this world. Stupid and utter idiotic to believe in shit like that as an adult. Even more so if you go and kill others for it.
Oh yeah definitely, there is a babarism to it that is incomprehensible. That's why I referenced DIY bombs rather than guns. They were the most popular form of destruction in the Troubles and they were absolutely barbaric.
The other thing that's shocking about the beheading is how personal it is, there's almost a kind of twisted intimacy to it. But DIY bombs are right at the other end of the spectrum, and in a sense, that's just as bad. The fact that they could (and often did) blow up early and hurt the "wrong" people, the fact that they encouraged indiscriminate destruction, and the absurd number of ghastly injuries that came with the "successful" killing, it creates a very different kind of feeling, but it was barbaric in its own way.
Barbaric destruction is all too common in many, many kinds of terrorism from many, many parts of the world, and I don't think we should think of this one as uniquely barbaric, and thus uniquely worth of our attention. But absolutely, it's hard to imagine how anyone can think of a beheading and not feel deep revulsion.
Took Europe centuries to finally reach a stage of common sense. These guys won't take us back to the middle ages again with their brainless faith in Allah.
"The problem is not Saudi."
The state that financed 9/11? That chopped up Jamal Khashoggi?
They're not the problem but they're very much at the epicentre of it.
The state that financed 9/11? That chopped up Jamal Khashoggi?
They're not the problem but they're very much at the epicentre of it.
Absolutely. The way things are talked about is often more important than the way things actually are. The 'Clash of Civilizations' ideology is not a diagnosis, but a self-fulfilling prophecy.
ISIS's terrorism in the West aimed at turning a large enough portion of Western non-Muslims against their Muslim population. They hoped hostility and attacks on Western Muslims would force them to join their ranks. Looking at this thread, the first part of that strategy still works a treat. Ironically best with people who think of themselves as enlightened rationalists.
The chance of one dying in an act of terror is minuscule, in Europe. Comparable to dying in an airplane accident or being struck by lightning. But we’re reminded all the time. This happens “all the time” in Europe. And we know with a very high degree of certainty who will and who will not execute these acts. It’s become a normality, to the point where people say it’s nothing, even make excuses for it. Don’t react to it, it doesn’t happen that often
It is a book of peace, etc., it’s twisted minds, twisting it’s meaning, and so on. Yet we are all scared of criticising this one particular idea in public, who only a very few, twisted minds would defend.It is a brain virus, and likely to escalate in parallel with other social problems and rising numbers who adhere to the idea.
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We can chicken-egg this all day long, but how about just not beheading a professional for doing his job?
Agree
Exactly, it’s called terrorism for a reason of course people will react.
Well you sure showed me. Quite the breadth of knowledge you've got in there.
Anyway I'm done trying to police the Pepe squad around here. It just seems to make them grow back stronger.
What can I say to this? I'm all for not beheading teachers, in case you had any doubts.
You also haven't understood my position. It's actually: neither be the chicken, nor the egg. A criticism of Islamists as much as of Western identitarians.
Please. In no way is there a similar level of criticism against both sides in your only post in this thread. That’s some mental gymnastics.
Do you think ISIS get off lightly there with their 'provoke a civil war to bring forth the apocalyptic final battle' strategy?
As relevant as ever
It’s not as neat or simple to blame it solely on ISIS. ISIS may have the ultimate delivery vechicle, but the psychosis involved here is far greater than any single terrorist element. I’m equally contemptuous of all religions, especially those that can radicalize its followers to commit acts like this.
Just in your use of vocabulary, you weren’t trying to criticize equally.
This is a ridiculous thing to say.
Mate I'd actually apply for guardianship for anyone that in this day and age still believes in God so get off your high horse. It's funny though that religious people think they've got some sort of higher knowledge than anyone else when it's the exact opposite most of the time and whenever their stupid believes are questioned they turn stubborn or even aggressive.
It's absolutely not. For all it potentially good intent it's always been interpreted in ways that brought nothing but despair.
Or they behead people.
That’s bullshit I think you’ll find many people that believe in God or attend Mass are very humble and don’t try to shove anything down your throat the way non-believers seem to do.
You maybe have made up your mind from watching too much TV, but your ordinary ever day Christian or Muslin aren’t like that at all.
The problem with stating things in absolutes is they're always wrong. See?
I'm not religious and absolutely agree that religion has caused incredible pain, but the positive elements of religion have been so plain to see throughout history that pretending they don't exist means your argument can't be taken seriously. It brings to mind many of the flaws you yourself state exist in religious people.
Many non-believers don't shove it in your face, and many believers do. I had someone spend half an hour yesterday telling me how Turkey survived the war because they were with god, and anyone who doesn't have that is in for an eternity of pain. He thought he was an exemplary muslim who holds humility at the core of his belief. Everyone thinks they are the "good" kind of believer / non-believer, and they exist across the spectrum of fanaticism.
Venezuela isn't a Western country.
It's on the west side of the map
It would be an interesting experiment in this debate on censorship and restrictions on free speech if we censored and removed all the parts and verses from all canonical religious scriptures and books that we in 2020 find "offensive" and "problematic" and see what we are left with. I'm sure someone must have done it already.
It’d look worse than the Mueller Report.