Dylan, Floyd, Mozart, Bowie, Miles Davis, Chet Baker, Ella, BB King, Hank Williams, Aretha? Great is mostly obvious even if it doesn't match your taste?
Music Taylor Swift
- Thread starter ha_rooney
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Dylan, Floyd, Mozart, Bowie, Miles Davis, Chet Baker, Ella, BB King, Hank Williams, Aretha? Great is mostly obvious even if it doesn't match your taste?
100%. She's a fully credible artist.
I would never judge a teenager’s taste in music. Whatever works for them is fine by me. Although I probably do find her music equally as annoying as anything else they listen to. I haven’t heard any of their music that properly sets my teeth on edge and I would prefer challenging to bland any day.
It’s the adult superfans I find a bit strange. And I’m conscious this is just me being judgemental. But I’ve always been that way. Can’t help it.
I agree that those that write and perform their own music are a level above the rest, and to be “Great”, for me, you must write and perform.
Janis Joplin for example isn’t in that top tier, for me. She’s rock star, yes, but not a legendary musician.
Alicia Keys >Taylor Swift if you want to talk about people who are great all around musicians. Woman plays multiple instruments, composes, writes and has a great voice and can do it all live on stage. Maybe not the composing thing at the same time but she is fantastic playing instruments and singing at the same time.
Being credited as a songwriter doesn't hold as much weight as it used to given that artists often get credited for the smallest of input in order to benefit from royalties.
That's not directed specifically at Tay Tay, though it's not a coincidence that her success went stratospheric when she began sharing songwriting duties with people like Max Martin, Jack Antonoff and Aaron Dessner.
An excellent point, I heard recently about those guys. They wrote "Save Your Tears" by The Weeknd too, amazing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheiron_Studios
Not a fan myself but she’s quite clearly objectively miles better than the majority of the swamp that is current popular music. Recording her music all over again to get rights to it is also totally badass. And she made Kanye look like the monumental cnut he is. Plus MAGA and Fox going after her means I have to root for her…so I guess what I’m saying is sign me up @Samid.
Now, Olivia Rodrigo. She's stealing my heart. And of course Sia. TS? Pass
I don’t think they hate her. It’s just that when something decent becomes revered and deified then there’s usually a reaction from the bewildered (me included).
I am a huge Alicia Keys fan, but i have heard many people who seen her live saying that her voice dont hold up at all as on records.
She is an amazing all around musician as you say thought.
Also she’s a homewrecker. Taylor would neverrrr
Never everrrrr.
Soon to be TS's usurper
We should start a thread to rival this oneSoon to be TS's usurper
So this is where all the Messi v Ronaldo guys are at. Comparisons for life
Ah from an industry POV it's not that bewildering. She is musically good, really driven, smart, and just edgy enough for a bit of Girl Power vibes to make her interesting and marketable.
You're all wrong, Aaliyah is the real queen (rip )
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I guess that’s the point. She’s become a lot bigger than just interesting and marketable. As with anything that blows up there’s a ‘wave’ surrounding her. And personally I can’t see the musical quality to substantiate it so it’s very heavily tilted towards the marketing aspect - which I’ll always find odd. I mean decent or good I suppose but nothing beyond that. I always refer to Michael Jackson who is the most absurdly popular artist (possibly person in general even) during my lifetime. He wasn’t “musically good” though - even as someone who isn’t a big fan of mainstream pop, he was quite clearly a phenomenally talented artist. Swift’s music is just so generic - but I suppose it’s in line with the direction mainstream music as a whole has gone - all the brilliant music has been shoved into the indie space.
Marketable and generic are not mutually exclusive. It's often a big plus, bizarrely. The bigger the reach of a platform more generic it needs to be.
Nothing against her, I'm just a bit baffled that I don't know any song of her, even if I look up her hits and listen to them for a few seconds. And there's a lot of songs of other pop stars I didn't manage to escape over the years.
If her songs have one constant quality it’s how remarkably forgettable they are. As you say, there’s been loads of bang average pop songs over the years that actually manage to leave an impression. Yet somehow the biggest selling artist in the world right now (I think?) hasn’t managed to write a single ear worm. It’s almost impressive.
Shake it off is an ear worm surely? It’s the only one I really know and can name by her but annoyingly it’s now in my head responding to you. Thanks.
The other side of the same coin is that her songs often seem familiar on first listen. It's formulaic and they don't challenge your ears or emotions at all.
Actually, yeah. That’s kind of memorable? The chorus anyway. Have no clue how the verse to that song goes. So one song has a memorable chorus. How many albums though?
A few are in my head but only because one of my kids learned guitar to a few of her tunes. Which as an aside is a mark of her worth. Inspiring kids to play guitar is a big plus.
It's not really that weird that something that is quite approachable and not too challenging becomes really popular. It's the same in many art genres, because the average consumer is not someone that necessarily goes deep into analyzing the quality of the art. They want something comfortable and catchy, when it comes to music. You could maybe make a parallel to the Marvel movies. They are super generic and predictable, but somehow also the biggest thing ever, because they are well produced with good looking actors and a lot of mind-numbing action.
That’s actually a good comaprison. I dislike Marvel crap too.
Exactly.
I’m totally not the demographic so I don’t knowingly know many songs by her - let alone albums!!! Just checked out the Spotify top 5 and the first 4 I think I’ve heard a few times but they’re pretty generic - Cardigan was the 5th and I had no idea that was by her - good song. Found out it was written by the National guy who I love and they’ve done an album called Folklore with him producing/co-writing - that includes Exile with Bon Ivor which is a cracking song. I may listen to the whole album sometime as it seems well reviewed.
I watch Rick Beato occasionally on YouTube and he does the top 20 Spotify videos where he’s goes through the chart every month - it is predominantly total dirge but when the likes of an Eilish, Swift, Rodrigo et al song pops up it always sticks out to me because at least they actually resemble what I think of as music with structure and chord progressions and a melody and even the occasional real instrument! If you compare Swift to all music ever created then sure - it’s difficult to understand why she’s so big - but compared to her pop contemporaries? I think I get it.
It’s not weird but it is quite depressing, if you like cinema (or music) Although I guess at least Swift’s popularity doesn’t throttle new music in the same way shitty franchise remakes are taking up all the cinema screens.
The TAYCU
That Folklore album is the only Taylor Swift album I’ve listened to a few times. One of my kids likes it. It’s ok. But, at the end of the day, it’s still a pale imitation of the music from the artists she gets to write/sing on it.
Anyway. Music taste is personal and all that. I happen to think Taylor Swift’s stuff isn’t a patch on other, similar, pop musicians such as Billie Eilish, or Sia, or Lorde, or even Harry fecking Styles! But ho hum, their music isn’t aimed at people like me, so what do I know?!
How many of her albums have memorable choruses?
I mean…
Taylor Swift: Our Song, Teardrops on My Guitar, Tim McGraw, Picture to Burn, Should’ve Said No
Fearless: Love Story, You Belong With Me
Speak Now: Mean, Back to December, Mine
Red: WANEGBT, 22, I Knew You Were Trouble
1989: Blank Space, Shake It Off, Bad Blood, Wildest Dreams, Style
Reputation: Look What You Made Me Do
Lover: You Need to Calm Down, Cruel Summer
evermore/folklore: [these albums weren’t made to have catchy choruses]
Midnights: Karma, Anti-Hero, Lavender Haze, Bejeweled
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I don't know. I'm not too depressed at what other people choose to watch and listen to. I've stayed away from the Marvel movies myself, but I do find it a bit funny when Martin Scorcese bitches about it, I have to admit. The cinema problem is more a reaction to how the industry has changed with streaming, to my knowledge. I remember listening to a podcast once that explained how 20 years ago the studios could rely on DVD sales as a significant revenue stream for their projects, which came on top of the box office. That has now gone entirely and not been adequately replaced by streaming fees, which means the studios have been more risk averse. They need something "bankable" either in terms of actors, director or a known franchise to go ahead with an expensive production. Still, plenty of good stuff is being produced and watched in cinemas.
When it comes to Tay Tay Swizzle, she is actually doing something good for musicians in encouraging them to own their own music, so they don't get screwed over by record labels. Of course, she is in a unique position to do it, but it's still a good story.
Harry is an empty shell, a pretty shell, but he's no Tay Tay. Billie is on a different level to all of them.
Couldn’t hum a melody from a single one of those tunes. And I’ve surely heard them, given her status. In one ear and out the other. Bland bland bland.
EDIT: Actually, Shake it Off chorus, as discussed.
I think that says more about you than it does the choruses
Spotify streaming stats for reference…
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Pogue arguing he can't remember songs he probably has never listened too. Out-Pogueing yourself friend. It's a little bit sad and boring the amount of effort you're putting in to somehow be condescending in here.
Folklore is an excellent album. Definitely give it a listen from start to finish.