Take That Circus tour

[moses]

But again, that doesnt make sense....

Essentially your saying you won't agree they're not like BB unless you personally like their songs because anything popular must be dross and only you, in your german prog rock shrined lair, can possibly gage what good music is!!

No, it doesnt work like that

Big Brother does not take any talent or Creativity to win, or to partake in

Writing a Song, and getting a string of those songs (not just one) into the charts, clearly does...

Now performing someone else's song doesn't nessesarily, which is why Boy Bands are usually derided, but since Take That DO perform songs they've written...they should be given credit for this

I'm saying you should name the good songs instead of trading on their popularity. I'm saying they had popular songs,not good ones. I'm just using BB as, popular does not equal good.

I'll give them as much credit as anyone who writes forgetable songs but will not stop seeing them as a smal part oftheir own success.
I could also argue that it does take a type of talent to win BB, but I'd be wrong.

 

[moses]

Karate class I believe, was an accident, I think they were just starting out at the time. Obviously famous enough that my dad knew who he was, but not famous enough that he wasn't avoiding karate classes with the general public!

As for songs, well it's personal preference aint it. With 11 UK number 1's, and a whole ream of album songs, there's plenty to choose from

I think most would cite the likes of Back for Good, Pray and Never Forget as being 'classic' Take That. All songs penned by Barlow

I'll give you Back For Good, but the rest are ordinary and I think far more popular than the talent within would dictate, which is where I was coming from all along.

You can't go against BB's popularity and bang on about Take That's chart success as a measure of how 'good' they are in my eyes.

 

[Mockney]

You could argue that, but you'd be being faceceous

As for songs...here's a few that are alright

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMSUnEOPY5I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X0IdnkLNLo&feature=related

oh and




and here's one that is definitely alright

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul_hcxlA5KU

 

[B Cantona]

I'll give you Back For Good, but the rest are ordinary and I think far more popular than the talent within would dictate, which is where I was coming from all along.

You can't go against BB's popularity and bang on about Take That's chart success as a measure of how 'good' they are in my eyes.

Mockneys already said it. Going on BB takes no talent whatsoever

To make that accusation of Take That is ridiculous. You can't 'manufacture' great live performances, it's something you have or don't, and Barlow has written enough songs which the public have adored to give the band credibility. I'm afraid you're not the authority on what is and isn't a good tune Moses!

Now let's delete this thread, and start a new one where we grunt and fart like proper blokes would

 

[Mockney]

.I'm afraid you're not the authority on what is and isn't a good tune Moses!

I think you'll find he is Brad...He works in the music industry!!

Now let's delete this thread, and start a new one where we grunt and fart like proper blokes would

This....please this

 

[moses]

You could argue that, but you'd be being faceceous

As for songs...here's a few that are alright

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfGVkuSziJg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMSUnEOPY5I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X0IdnkLNLo&feature=related


and here's one that is definitely alright : D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul_hcxlA5KU

words are a big part of songs and since they are not musicians the mainstay of this argument .... I got as far as "you and me girl we can ride on a star if you stay with me"

cack ... and you know it ... fecking amazing production though ... and only money buys that.

 

[Mockney]

You an arse

 

[B Cantona]

You an arse

 

[moses]

I think you'll find he is Brad...He works in the music industry!!

which gives me the chance to see music without production is all I meant by that ...

you both know a thing or two about football and can identify a shit tv show, but you are the great unwashed in matters musical ... have you heard coldplay ... like Take That except they can make music without a 27 piece orchestra ... and have sold loads of records, so they must be great ... see also Westlife and Girls Aloud ... some of them write their own songs too. Genius.

 

[Mockney]

Surprised as you may be to find this out...I've heard music live a few times!..Accoustic music too!! I know! Amazing isn't it that us great unwashed have been privilaged to hear music so stripped down!

I bet your a bit jealous now aren't you?

My point isn't that Take That are Great...I don't think they are...But I think they should be given credit..and snobs like you banding them in with packaged boybands is unfair in my book

 

[moses]

I'm afraid you're not the authority on what is and isn't a good tune Moses!

All I am saying is that their success is disproprtionate to their talent, if you dont belive this then you must believe they are among the most talented musicians Britain has ever produced.

 

[B Cantona]

For the love of all that is holy won't a woman take this bloody argument off our hands!!!

I'm this far (imagine me clasping two fingers together, but leaving a slight gap between) from giving myself a full facial and nail treatment, and putting a 'to let' sign on my behind...

 

[Mockney]

Jesus Lads!!..we've got up to 50 posts on this!...Lets bail before our willies fall off

 

[moses]

Surprised as you may be to find this out...I've heard music live a few times!..Accoustic music too!! I know! Amazing isn't it that us great unwashed have been privilaged to hear music so stripped down!

I bet your a bit jealous now aren't you?

My point isn't that Take That are Great...I don't think they are...But I think they should be given credit..and snobs like you banding them in with packaged boybands is unfair in my book

not jealous, just less distressed

and they are THE original packaged boyband Mockney, just because barlow can pen a song doesn't change this ... you are too ready to win an argument here. Come back in the morning and read it again.

 

[Mockney]

The Monkeys were THE Original Packaged Boy Band...

Followed a few decades later by New Kids on The Block


I thought you knew your music?

 

[moses]

Nobody better delete this thread where the BB two defend Take That to the hilt. I'm not ashamed of my snobbery or my German music, will you two be able to face the world without each other for solace.?

 

[moses]

The Monkeys were the Original Packaged Boy Band...

Followed a few decades later by New Kids on The Block

Don't be trying to make light of the Take That are not a packaged boyband comment

 

[Mockney]

We've been sent on an under cover mission by Livve to spread the virtue of Take That through out the forum....If we fail we'll be ghosted again and Brad will feck up the poker thread and send people into hysterics...So just agree so we can go to bed

 

[moses]

The Monkeys were THE Original Packaged Boy Band...

Followed a few decades later by New Kids on The Block


I thought you knew your music?

I know feck all about Girls Aloud or Rhihanna either , you and Brad be sure to keep me posted eh?

 

[Mockney]

I agree they're packaged moses, but I don't agree that it was only their packaging that got them where they are today or that they are the musical equivalent of Big Brother...I think both of those points are silly

 

[moses]

We've been sent on an under cover mission by Livve to spread the virtue of Take That through out the forum....If we fail we'll be ghosted again and Brad will feck up the poker thread and send people into hysterics...So just agree so we can go to bed

screw you, i got so into this i sat up in bed to type, i'm much further from slumber than i wa 10 mins ago

 

[moses]

I agree they're packaged moses, but I don't agree that it was only their packaging that got them where they are today or that they are the musical equivalent of Big Brother...I think both of those points are silly

aye, as ever it's somewhere in the middle (much nearer to my end of the spectrum though)

 

[B Cantona]

Nobody better delete this thread where the BB two defend Take That to the hilt. I'm not ashamed of my snobbery or my German music, will you two be able to face the world without each other for solace.?

I'm fond of a few Take That songs, I think they're another example of how Lancashire shits on the rest of England in every possible way... it's only you being a pompous arse that's led to this point!

The BB two will defend all those who are judged wrongly and harshly. If that's gay pop acts, so be it

 

[Mockney]

 

[moses]

I'm fond of a few Take That songs, I think they're another example of how Lancashire shits on the rest of England in every possible way... it's only you being a pompous arse that's led to this point!

The BB two will defend all those who are judged wrongly and harshly. If that's gay pop acts, so be it

My first reply to you that your regionalism was the only thing possible to overcome your other bias which is why you stuck up for them.

And you can call me pompous if you like but I really see a lack of talent in Take That in context of their success. I'm far from alone and it's far from musical snobbery. Thinking a 'good' film is better than an oscar winner or hollywood blockbuster is is shit is not snobbery. I like a lot of shitty and odd music for various reasons and this is more a music business question than one of taste. They got lucky, as all successful musicians do at some stage but they are no different to Boyzone and Westlife, they all wrote songs too; but were a manufactured boyband just like their english counterparts and each sold more records than their predecessors despite an ever shrinking cd sales market.

Much much deeper issue than talent which is all I ever said if you read back.

And I do think the workings of the music industry at that pop level where the audience is not cnuts like me is not unlike an audio version of the tv shows that we are told we like and the public do like - but critics and snobs like you two treat with disdain.

 

[B Cantona]

 

[moses]

Music snobbery will save the art from the accountants.

 

[moses]

ye should go, all those great songs you like by the talented Mr Barlow will be in it, I'll not be going; me and all the other music snobs/straight blokes/skinny women over 17 will be doing anything else at all.

 

[moses]

Did he get her back to the top of the charts again?

Did he get her back to the charts over and over again?

Are we still listening to the old and new music of Samamtha Mumba?

Just saw this now.

Nope, not after the one album of hits. But that's all he needed. He made a pop star, and he used the same methods in a much more crass way that he used for Boyzone, learned from Take That. He got her into films and American shows, more money for less investment ... he made her a pop star here ... so he could have a 'star' to sell people. People love the celebrities, they love famous people so much all it takes to be famous is fame. like Jade. And Take That. There is a degree of entertainment within but not enough, bands of this type is much less content based than a Radiohead. Much more disposable and shallow ,it has to be to succeed. Like Corrie, and other popular but unmentionable shows.

They were all selected from auditions too as far as I know.

 

[EricaNo7]

i like them a lot ( what's not to like ? )
comparing them to the return of other boybands from that era - boyzone, blue etc, really no comparison at all.
far more talent it would appear, and although i think gary barlow is a bit smug sometimes ( and also a liverpool fan, like owen ) he's an excellent songwriter.

 

[EricaNo7]

The Monkeys were THE Original Packaged Boy Band...

Followed a few decades later by New Kids on The Block


I thought you knew your music?

they were the monkees , mockney

 

[Wibble]

Thankfully I have never even heard any of their stuff post mid 90s because they have no profile out here whatsoever. Shame the same can't be said of that utter cnut Robbie Williams. Produced commerical tat of the worst sort no matter who writes the songs -as bad a Kylie.

I disliked them in the extreme in the 90s so I see no reason to like them again now.

 

[Livvie]

Karate class I believe, was an accident, I think they were just starting out at the time. Obviously famous enough that my dad knew who he was, but not famous enough that he wasn't avoiding karate classes with the general public!

As for songs, well it's personal preference aint it. With 11 UK number 1's, and a whole ream of album songs, there's plenty to choose from

I think most would cite the likes of Back for Good, Pray and Never Forget as being 'classic' Take That. All songs penned by Barlow

I've always thought Never Forget to be a great song, and brilliantly produced.

It's really strange (and annoying) how people are blind to any talent if it's not their taste.

Manufactured stars just don't last unless they have talent, and as well as the songs, TT are really good performers too. I've never heard of anyone leaving one of their shows feeling let down, and they're always sell outs.

 

[Livvie]

i like them a lot ( what's not to like ? )
comparing them to the return of other boybands from that era - boyzone, blue etc, really no comparison at all.
far more talent it would appear, and although i think gary barlow is a bit smug sometimes ( and also a liverpool fan, like owen ) he's an excellent songwriter.

Mark Owen had trials with United, and I always thought he was a United fan.

That's it then.

 

[Scholesgoals]

You should listen to moses, he is right.

its called the music industry for a reason.

 

[MUFCgal]

i like them a lot ( what's not to like ? )
comparing them to the return of other boybands from that era - boyzone, blue etc, really no comparison at all.
far more talent it would appear, and although i think gary barlow is a bit smug sometimes ( and also a liverpool fan, like owen ) he's an excellent songwriter.

Absolutely, they've more talent in them than any of the other boybands who were around. My uncle who is an avid rock fan and his favourite band is AC/DC said that Take That was one of the best gigs he's ever been at (he took his wife to see them) and I didn't think I'd ever hear him say a thing like that

I love Take That, always have and always will.

 

[Livvie]

You should listen to moses, he is right.

its called the music industry for a reason.

Don't be arrogant.

People like different things - don't tell me what I should or shouldn't like!

 

[Scholesgoals]

Don't be arrogant.

People like different things - don't tell me what I should or shouldn't like!

Right, enough!

I'm not telling anyone what they shouldnt like. That is not the issue, people keep falling back on this and its fecking silly.

To paraphrase bjork,

Music is a lot like food, filet mignon is often considered "good" food, where a banana is not, however to not eat a banana because it isnt filet mignon is just stupid. The same with music, you take more from music by listening to it all, in all its forms.

Now hopefully we can put that to bed.

If you have any experience of how the music industry works, you will realise that there are thousands and thousands of aspiring and brilliant artists that no big record company has any time for. To say its just about the quality of songs is naive at the very least. I'm sorry, its just true! Its not often that the best musicians rise to the top because music has become part of culture rather than a pure art. The music you listen to part defines you as a person - much like the clothes you wear. Music industry workers know this and use this to create a persona for you to buy into. Its just the way it works.

Honestly, i really couldnt care less what people listen to, just as long as they have an open mind. Some of the greatest records have been blatant pop, and they are genius in the way they work and hook you in, thats an art in itself.

 

[Eyepopper]

Jesus fecking Christ, otherwise rational people arguing about the musical credibility of That fecking That, I never thought I'd see it.

Like the songs all you want but dont be fooling yourself that they're anything other than a huge product from start to finish.

They're the musical equivalent of candy floss, if you like that fine, but dont make the mistake of claiming they have an ounce of musical credibility to make you feel better about it.

 

[Livvie]

Right, enough!

I'm not telling anyone what they shouldnt like. That is not the issue, people keep falling back on this and its fecking silly.

To paraphrase bjork,

Music is a lot like food, filet mignon is often considered "good" food, where a banana is not, however to not eat a banana because it isnt filet mignon is just stupid. The same with music, you take more from music by listening to it all, in all its forms.

Now hopefully we can put that to bed.

If you have any experience of how the music industry works, you will realise that there are thousands and thousands of aspiring and brilliant artists that no big record company has any time for. To say its just about the quality of songs is naive at the very least. I'm sorry, its just true! Its not often that the best musicians rise to the top because music has become part of culture rather than a pure art. The music you listen to part defines you as a person - much like the clothes you wear. Music industry workers know this and use this to create a persona for you to buy into. Its just the way it works.

Honestly, i really couldnt care less what people listen to, just as long as they have an open mind. Some of the greatest records have been blatant pop, and they are genius in the way they work and hook you in, thats an art in itself.

OK, apologies if I over-reacted - I assumed your attitude was like that of Eyepopper who I will now direct my ire at.

The music industry is no different to any other unfortunately. Take books - loads of would be novelists who can't get published, whilst crap like Katie Price is. And that's not being hypocritical - if there's a market for that dross, then fine, but she doesn't even write it herself.

Imho, Take That are good performers, can hold a tune together, and have a huge entertainment value for a lot of people. That makes them more than acceptable and a lot more than candy floss. Their successful comeback is partly down to an incredibly loyal fan base who stuck with them for ten years when they weren't even around, and now to a new generation of fans who they have won over.

They deserve a lot of respect because all that can't be just manufactured.