It has been specified multiple times that they are using a younger version of Scholes, have you seen him play? Quite a different player to a midfield conductor of later years. And no, your presentation is significantly worse.
Surveillance Draft - R1- Invictus/Raees vs SirScholes
- Thread starter green_smiley
- Start date
Injury update - 30 min
No injuries for both sides in 30 min
Oh, we can't see the votes now, can we? A shame.
@Mods, grant me power to create polls
Okocha on the wing instead of McManaman is a strange decision imo, and i'm a fan of Okocha
Jay jay offers a significant bigger threat than McManaman, despite playing for one of the best teams in the world in the 4 years he was at Real scored 8 goals
We considered that as an option against certain oppositions, but felt these were the only viable routes to bring out the best in every central midfield player:
1. Post 2005-2006 Scholes:
-----Davids-------------------Essien-----
-----------------Scholes------------------
Paul in the slightly offset deep lying playmaker role where he pull the strings while Davids and Essien act as the enforcers. A bit like this, but with added presence around him:
This way he can use his experience and array of passing to try and control the game.
2. Circa 2002 Scholes:
-----------------------Scholes-----------------------
-----Davids-----------------------------Essien------
This was arguably his peak as an all-round weapon (often playing ahead of the likes of Keane + Butt/Neville/Djembe²). Not as good at passing as the experienced version, but a more offense oriented creator in the final third, a more dynamic midfield presence, and - he scored 20 club goals in a season at his peak. Given the nature of the opposition, this was a better option, in our estimation - especially since we get additional goals from midfield without losing a significant amount of control over the match in terms of passing foresight against the duo of Pirlo and Iniesta.
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...choles-manchester-united-strike-partners.aspx
Plus, Davids and Essien are still in roles that compliment their skillsets.
Essien shouldn't really be counted or given the task of the enforcer. Let him box to box or you lose a lot of offensive flair he adds with his strong runs forward.
Essien isn't being asked to play the enforcer role, to be fair, which is something @Raees has already addressed. What was touched upon is the ability of both Davids and Essien to provide solid workrate off the ball. As it turns out, Iniesta's on the inside left channel - so Essien will keep an eye on him. Against a different set of personnel, it could've been Davids on the opposition's inside right channel, and he has the skillset to track dangerous runners, too.
Both players can alternate, and provide the attacking box-to-box impetus depending on the 'lay' of the match. That complete skillset in both phases of the game and versatility is one of the biggest draws of having players like them, and as a combination, they don't necessarily need dedicated enforcers, IMO - even though they played with Makélélé, Deschamps.
Both players can alternate, and provide the attacking box-to-box impetus depending on the 'lay' of the match. That complete skillset in both phases of the game and versatility is one of the biggest draws of having players like them, and as a combination, they don't necessarily need dedicated enforcers, IMO - even though they played with Makélélé, Deschamps.
As an extension of the Essien scrutiny, perhaps Pirlo's fit as a right sided central midfielder needs to be addressed, too. Can he adequately fulfill a Xavi-esque function (on and off the ball - especially in terms of movement and pressing) when he always played with runners around him from a deep-set central position?
Typically a central DLP with box-to-box players or harriers around him for Milan:
Typically a central DLP with box-to-box players at Juventus (including Marschisio - who was defensively astute, and provided a fair bit of bite with Vidal - who went of lung bursting runs to create additional space for Andrea to exploit):
Typically a central DLP with high workrate players around him for Italy at his peak (EURO 2012):
Can he function at a high level when the team isn't quite built to his strengths? And he isn't sitting right in front of the central defensive core - with a panoramic view of the entire pitch.
Typically a central DLP with box-to-box players or harriers around him for Milan:
Typically a central DLP with box-to-box players at Juventus (including Marschisio - who was defensively astute, and provided a fair bit of bite with Vidal - who went of lung bursting runs to create additional space for Andrea to exploit):
Typically a central DLP with high workrate players around him for Italy at his peak (EURO 2012):
Can he function at a high level when the team isn't quite built to his strengths? And he isn't sitting right in front of the central defensive core - with a panoramic view of the entire pitch.
Injury update - 60 min
No injuries for both sides in 60 min
I'm confused.
Just to clarify, I don't think there's any problems in your midfield or Essien is out of position/role, I just find it hard to understand why you are playing it both ends with calling him a defensive enforcer when it fits you and a box to box when that one fits you better
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WTF.. really? @Invictus ...
@VivaJanuzaj - sorry that was meant to say, not just enforcer role. Essien obviously can enforce and play attacking in the same game, it is what he built his entire career on so seems a strange criticism of our use of him.
But he is a defensive B2B player, I still don't understand. When has Essien been reknowned for being an attack orientated B2B player? he's reknowned for his toughness, like a Keano and yes he is also good on the ball and a fantastic talent but it is the entire package which makes him the player he is. To say he can't be a defensive enforcer and a B2B player in the same game makes no sense at all to me. Part of his B2B game is to be a defensive enforcer? Davids likewise.
Damn! And so late in the game! Should be a win on a technicality
Thanks again, Scholesy. I like that Mihajlovic is playing. Jarni was too attacking for that left side with Iniesta and Ronaldo and in hindsight i should have picked Pessotto. Would have played McManaman, though 
Happy to bow out guys, serious feck up on our part. Apologies @SirScholes @The Stain. We can put out a replacement side, but probably too late in the day for that.
I just voted to see the score so you know. If it were up to me i'd just let it carry on. You wouldn't have made that pick had you known so..
Yeah but it goes against the spirit of the entire draft.
I don't have a problem with it in the general way, but when you put him in the same side with Iniesta/Ronaldo and expect him to the the job on them while contributing to the attacking phase is a lot to ask even from an engine like Essien and although I rate him higher than most you really want to decide better on what are the priorities for him. In general I'd say your midfield trio is flawless and I like the juanfran v ronaldo matchup, but with a proper back four I'd like Essien better because this formation kinda makes me feel like you ask him for some RB protection while stopping Iniesta.
Never mind
We will continue this discussion another time.
@Physiocrat @green_smiley - we would like to withdraw from the match. Me and @Invictus decided it is not fair for us to go on.
Well played @The Stain, @SirScholes - fantastic team, and scope for top quality reinforcements. That offense is top notch, especially in relative terms with the elimination of Messi + Fenómeno. Couple defensive additions, a little bit of luck, and the finals should be firmly in sight. Good luck!
Also, cheers for managing the draft @Physiocrat @green_smiley.
Also, cheers for managing the draft @Physiocrat @green_smiley.
Think a sub for a corrected side, and tagging all the managers who voted (for both teams) should do it. Withdrawing from the match seems harsh, esp since the error wasn't spotted till late into the match or by anyone during the drafting phase.
The votes aren't visible
Well played @The Stain, @SirScholes - fantastic team, and scope for top quality reinforcements. That offense is top notch, especially in relative terms with the elimination of Messi + Fenómeno. Couple defensive additions, a little bit of luck, and the finals should be firmly in sight. Good luck!
Also, cheers for managing the draft @Physiocrat @green_smiley.
Thank you both for your conciliatory attitude. I was thinking what could be done and the only solution seemed to be giving a defualt win to SirScholes. I really liked your side and enjoyed watching the old Scholes videos. What's interesting in that Newcastle video is that Scholes actually played on the left out of possession with Giggs/Forlan playing off Ruud- John O'Shea was the relatively attacking left back with Wes Brown the defensive full back behind Ole on the other side. Given that O'Shea isn't that attacking most of the attacks were down the right and then Scholes pops up inside left to score. All this is to say, if you played Scholes on the left in a draft, I'm not sure it would go down well.
The votes aren't visible
I think it wasn't highlighted as an option when the poll was created and you can't edit it after the fact.
Yeah, we've been here earlier, there is no way to make them visible now, just specified for Joga that we can't tag the voted managers
This is a wonderful video of Scholes v France in Euro 2004 playing from the left. Tremendous even playing in a unusual role and look at how none of the great French midfielders can get anywhere near him.. in an alien formation, he still manages to look utterly world class.
A fitting note to bid farewell on.
Random thoughts:
- I like both teams that possess players known for controlling the game and whose main strenghts are the left side
- Challenging for Okocha to prevent Ziege attacking. Of course, Cr7 is not a gift for Juanfran torres but Giuly.
- The centre of gravity of Ribéry-Suker-Giuly will disturb the opposing defenders.
- I like both teams that possess players known for controlling the game and whose main strenghts are the left side
- Challenging for Okocha to prevent Ziege attacking. Of course, Cr7 is not a gift for Juanfran torres but Giuly.
- The centre of gravity of Ribéry-Suker-Giuly will disturb the opposing defenders.
What's the issue?
Oh, that's a pity. Voted for you guys I thought you had a more balanced squad and really excellent midfield, spearheaded by one of my favorite Scholes versions.
Ziege and Lehmann were in Germany World Cup Squad in 2002 thereby meaning Raees and Invictus had fielded an ineligible team.
Hey guys are you sure? That's might generous I double checked your nesta chellini duo but chellini didn't get picked for the squad, didn't give two thoughts about ze GermansWell played @The Stain, @SirScholes - fantastic team, and scope for top quality reinforcements. That offense is top notch, especially in relative terms with the elimination of Messi + Fenómeno. Couple defensive additions, a little bit of luck, and the finals should be firmly in sight. Good luck!
Also, cheers for managing the draft @Physiocrat @green_smiley.
Feel a little dirty going through, I'll try to learn from you guys in building a team I think that's where you kept getting votes, the balance was on point
Tricky situation. Had the mistake been picked up before the votes went in, it would have been easier to resolve. Although I think it would have been a reasonable option to re-start the game or do the tag route as Joga suggested, it's very noble to pull out and would have been a bigger problem had it been picked up later down the line.
Yeah, I don't think anyone would mind this. Simply reset the poll and edit the new formation into the OP
Agreed, right decision. Didn't we once have someone disqualified for bringing on an ineligible player just for a runout in a virtually won game?
And it's not like Ziege and Lehmann both being in a German squad is the hardest of things to check
Shane, that was a lovely midfield trio.