Surveillance Draft - R1- Invictus/Raees vs SirScholes

Who would win?

  • Invictus/Raees

    Votes: 15 53.6%
  • SirScholes

    Votes: 13 46.4%

  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .

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Invictus/Raees

TACTICAL OUTLINE


Hybrid 4-2-3-1 (4-3-3 in possession/4-5-1 out of possession).
Moderate defensive line.

Player Name - Player Position - Player Role

Jens Lehmann - Goalkeeper - Standard goalkeeper function.
Christian Ziege - Left wingback - Supplemental offensive width on the left flank.
Giorgio Chiellini - Left centerback - Versatile defender who can peel slightly wide as Ziege presses forward.
Alessandro Nesta - Right centerback - Defensive glue.
Juanfran Torres - Right fullback - Defensively astute fullback who can double up as a long-range line runner.
Edgar Davids - Left box-to-box - Destroyer, passer, dribbler, marker.
Michael Essien - Right box-to-box - Destroyer, passer, dribbler, marker.
Paul Scholes - 'Günter Netzer' role?? - dynamic eye-catching passer, manipulator of space, and proficient scorer who also possesses battling mentality.
Franck Ribéry - Left Winger/playmaker - Secondary creator and all-round wide offensive threat.
Ludovic Giuly - Right sided wide forward - Aggressive 'tactical piece' attacker who dribbled well, but also tracked back.
Davor Šuker - Mobile center forward - Quick striker who will make penetrative runs, link up with the wide forward and score when in range.

Defense

From the back, the defense is marshaled by the best centerback in the draft, Nesta; and beside him is a player well versed in the nuances of Italian style defending - Chiellini is not the flashiest name, but a proven fit when it comes to covering for left sided wingbacks without compromising on defensive duties in more central areas. Ziege was a comprehensive wingback who excelled in many departments - his long striding style is a good mesh with the player ahead of him (who hit his peak with Alaba), and his overall athletic ability is an asset in the defensive phase following forward ventures. Peaking with Bayern in the '90s, Ziege scored a total of 32 goals for the Bavarians in a 3 span, and was a standout component of the '96 German EURO winning team where he also kept a close check on McManaman in the semi-finals.

1315879_Germany.jpg

On the far right, Juanfran has faced off against Cristiano time and again, and has the defensive skillset, foresight, and lung capacity to try and limit the Portuguese wide forward.

Midfield

The midfield is well balanced - with each component being a good fit in the overall scheme. Davids and Essien is a monstrous base that can battle against even the most distinguished opposition, and Scholes is the wily operator who acts as the cherry on top with his ability to affect multiple phases of the game. Keen to distinguish Scholes here from more orthodox 10s - Rui Costa/Riquelme in that he had an influence not just in deeper areas, which allows the likes Essien/Davids to run ahead of him in certain situations, but also his ability in the box - where his penetrative threat equals some of the best. A unique threat in that respect, and an asset that well maximized in the context of this midfield.

* Essien will have the added task of tracking Iniesta - as and when required. Whereas Davids has more tactical freedom vs Pirlo/Mauro Silva - who weren't that good when it comes to penetrative dribbles. But when he does overpower Iniesta in the offensive phase, the Buffalo will provide a powerful subsidiary dribbling threat, with a hint of end product to boot.

Attack

Further forward - the trio of Ribéry, Šuker and Giuly provide the offensive thrust. The former duo peaked as Ballon D'Or Top 3 players, and offer exquisite quality. Additionally, all three were 'active' in the defensive phase of the game, and willing trackers - to provide more balance to the team's setup as it transitions between 451 and 433, and help the team defend from the front as a unit.


KEY OBSERVATIONS

1. Midfield balance - In our estimation, the trio of Scholes, Essien and Davids is more versatile, gritty and complete - with each play
er used to operating in multiple schemes/positions - without a discernible drop in quality. Pirlo operated at his best with a box-to-box + harrier (like Seedorf + Gattuso/De Rossi + Montolivo/Vidal + Marchisio/Pogba), and Iniesta thrived with two like minded players - a holding midfielder, and a right sided pass master (Busquets + Xavi). Great players here, but something doesn't quite add up there in terms of cohesiveness, and it does seem a bit defensively lightweight vs two athletic beasts - especially when Davids and Essien have room to track and physically challenge the duo of Pirlo and Iniesta.

2. Šuker's big match ability and mobility vs Terry + Popescu - Unsure about the fit of Terry (who played in deep defensive lines) with a wingback (Jarni) and someone who loved to venture with the ball while others covered for him (Popescu). There's a risk of defensive lapses in that particular area of the pitch - and Šuker's uncanny ability to buzz all around the final third and 'pop up' should come in handy in those situations.

Šuker's peak big match scoring ability was phenomenal, and his record vs Popescu's Barcelona in particular was impressive. Apart from being an International tournament wonder, Davor terrorized La Liga's premier defenses for 5 consecutive years whilst playing for Sevilla, and later Madrid.


3. Giuly doubling up vs Ronaldo - Ludo was an energetic whippet known for his team ethos, and will track back as an when required to gang up on Ronaldo with Juanfran. This will help frustrate the opposition's most prominent statistical threat.

4. Scholes' enigmatic positioning - The Ginger Prince is a nomad in this match. No set position, but instead has the license to drop into pockets - from central midfield - all the way up to the opposition box as a pseudo support striker (like in the 2002/2003 season where he scored 20 goals and led United to the title).

5. Relative workrate - Greater relative all-round workrate and 'lungs' throughout the team - especially in midfield and attack.

Additional wrinkle - Cristiano was/is at his best with primary forwards who bring him into play, whilst sacrificing their game to an extent - Benzema/Tévez/Rooney. There might be a conflict of interest with Gabigol - who was more of a sharpshooter in comparative terms - more of a pure 9. Meanwhile, Šuker is capable of providing the penetrative runs, all-round play, defense stretching ability and speed that Ribéry thrives on with his playmaking/dribbling ability.

PGG-formation-tactics.png
Draft-formation-tactics.png


SirScholes

4-3-3

In goal Abbondanzeri
Solid goalkeeper who played for Argentina, is he the best goalkeeper ever? No but he is reliable or was. Providing a safe pair of hands behind a pretty menising back 4

Fullbacks
Mihajlovic and Sagnol, 2 ultimate pros.
Mihajlovic is known for being a no nonsense tackler but also had fantastic long range passing and crossing that can set Ronnie of on a counter or cross for Batistuta
Sagnol equally strong going forward, my full backs will support for width but only one at any one time.

My CB pairing brings together two great readers of the game both good on the ball, both good at organizing both quick and neither afraid of a fight.

In midfield I have a trio, silva will stay back and cover for fullbacks if needed, known for his work rate and stamina he will be my Kante, makelele etc...

Pirlo and iniesta need little bigging up, two of this generations greatest midfielders. Pirlo sitting a little deeper than iniesta so he can dictate play, switch to either flank and pick out passes.
Iniesta will have more freedom to create havoc In the final third.

On the wings I'm lucky to have Ronaldo, a goal machine, at first he will start left with license to cut inside and go for goal. I can see give and goes with Andres being difficult to stop due to his pace and power.
When we the ball on the right, he and batistuta will provide a huge aerial threat.

Speaking of the right jay jay Okocha will start there, a joy to watch but also a tricky opponent capable of drifting past players.

Both Wingers will have license to switch flanks to get the most change out of the opposition, this would change the threat each would bring as Ronaldo would then look to get to the byline and cut it back for Batistuta or iniesta.

Lastly Batistuta, a striker that had it all, he will be my go to man when under pressure to hold play up and release one of the wingers.
He's also very capable on the ball with pace and power.

I am looking forward to seeing my opponents formation.
I believe Ronaldo and Batistuta would have too much power for any defense.
My own defense is made up of defenders good on the ball but no nonsense in tackling. Protected by silva it will be hard to break down.
 
@Raees @Invictus

Which Scholes is playing here? It seems you want a hybrid of the second-striker off Ruud plus the older passing machine

Are there any passing compilations of Scholes from when he played behind Ruud? His passing could well be close to when he played deeper but it doesn't seem the case from memory
 
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@Raees @Invictus

Which Scholes is playing here? It seems you want a hybrid of the second-striker off Ruud plus the older passing machine
Nope, not in the old passing machine role. Closer to this:



Premier League PFA Team of the Year: 2002–03

Still a really good passer (not as great as the older version, of course - but his pre 2006 passing get underrated for some odd reason). Crucially, a final third threat, and when he pushes up - Davids and Essien can handle business in the middle from a defensive standpoint. Additionally, given his workrate from that position (even in 2002/2003 he would drop deep), Davids and Essien will have that added freedom to drive through - a bit like Keane when he played as the box-to-box behind Paul.
 
@Raees @Invictus

Which Scholes is playing here? It seems you want a hybrid of the second-striker off Ruud plus the older passing machine

Are there any passing compilations of Scholes from when he played behind Ruud? His passing could well be close to when he played deeper but it doesn't seem the case from memory

Sorry mate, should have made it clearer was going to add 2002-05 to his playing position on the formation graphic.





Not meant to be posting in this match, but Second video shows how Scholes even when younger could drop deep and bomb forward in the same game and how agile/athletic he was compared to say your Riquelme's etc. He really was a force of nature with the ball and very different to post 2006 Scholes.

So if you want to see how he will be used please look at the first video, but for a greater flavour of what a young Scholes brings to the table, please watch both videos.
 
At a glance there seems to be an assumption I'd play Jarni but was mentioned I saw him too lightweight for this game so opted for a destroyer in mihajlovic who plugs any holes Jarni would leave.
He and along with pirlo are also the best free kick takers on the pitch which I would use for crosses in to ronaldo and batistuta.
There was a question mark over ronaldo and gab getting in each other's way but batistuta was also able to receive a ball from a midfielder back to goal and bring players in, this would leave ronaldo with the space behind to exploit.
 


Little vid just to enjoy, essien and davids were solid but I'm confident iniesta and pirlo would be able to handle the pressure they'd receive. Davidz would get sent off
 
Okocha seems overkill in a midfield that already has Iniesta and Pirlo, but otherwise SirScholes has a lot of quality and attacking punch there.
 
Have to say, that Iniesta - Cristiano combo on the left is intriguing, should work fantastically. Ronaldo/Iniesta/Batigol all have it in them to win the game on their own. Pirlo and Sinisa are very likely to score from a free-kick, although it would be hard to do without hurting Cristiano's feelings.

Love the sight of I/R team, although it does lack a star quality upfront. Scholes' passing skills were pretty much the same when he was younger - it was his experience and improved decision making that allowed him to dictate games single-handedly.
 
At a glance there seems to be an assumption I'd play Jarni but was mentioned I saw him too lightweight for this game so opted for a destroyer in mihajlovic who plugs any holes Jarni would leave.
He and along with pirlo are also the best free kick takers on the pitch which I would use for crosses in to ronaldo and batistuta.
Fair enough, mate. Though I do think Cristiano operates at his best with a proficient wingback dribbling threat behind him (Marcelo/Evra), since that diverts the attention of the opposition and opens up central channels for him to run into (which is where he thrives with his movement and cannon shot).
Mihajlović provides a slightly better defensive structure, but from a functional standpoint - isn't the best fit with Ronaldo, who should ideally be central to all offensive moves and plans.
 
Okocha seems overkill in a midfield that already has Iniesta and Pirlo, but otherwise SirScholes has a lot of quality and attacking punch there.
Agreed I maybe got carried away but I knew there would be a tactic of doubling up on ronaldo and wanted a player that could work either wing so Ronaldo could swap flanks if needed.
I'm not a big fan of McManaman, my memories of him are a wasteful winger, watches a highlight and saw plenty of dribbling past players followed by missing the target from inside the area.
Jay jay brings more troubles and unpredictability
 
Interesting matchup. SirScholes attack is much more impressive but Raees/Invictus defense and midfield cover for it is massive
I was expecting that, and to be fair he had to and done a great job, so many moving parts which could cause its own troubles tho
 
Respect to @SirScholes again for taking over a team middraft

This really looks like a classic offenses vs. defense match. I think Scholes/Stain have a clearly superior front 5 for attacking but Raees/Invictus have the better defense with Davids and Essien holding. Starting Sinisa was smart tactically from SS as they were already targeting Jarni as a weak spot.

To me I think the key matchup is Scholes-Mauro Silva. Raees/Inv really need Scholes for his tempo control, passing and service to the front 3. If R/I wins I can see Scholes being man of the match. really like the Uncle Jay-Jay pick as well. Exciting player that I always liked. Think I even picked him up on an PES file back in the day.
 
Scholes vs Scholes....only one winner here.
 
Respect to @SirScholes again for taking over a team middraft

This really looks like a classic offenses vs. defense match. I think Scholes/Stain have a clearly superior front 5 for attacking but Raees/Invictus have the better defense with Davids and Essien holding. Starting Sinisa was smart tactically from SS as they were already targeting Jarni as a weak spot.

To me I think the key matchup is Scholes-Mauro Silva. Raees/Inv really need Scholes for his tempo control, passing and service to the front 3. If R/I wins I can see Scholes being man of the match. really like the Uncle Jay-Jay pick as well. Exciting player that I always liked. Think I even picked him up on an PES file back in the day.

Agreed Scholes is a star player and someone I personally respect immensely, is be naive to say silva would stop him because he is too clever but he can offer a huge shield for the defence made up of huge talent so they can focus on keeping the rest quiet.
If Silva isn't stopping scholes davids and essien aren't stopping pirlo and iniesta.
Thank you for the shout I hope I do the stain proud. I moved away slightly from him wanting Jarni and Steve Mac in the team but handing me CR7 and Batistuta was a dream
 
Do think the tandem of Ribéry and Šuker is getting a bit underrated here. While they weren't high volume scorers or the most catchy names at face value, they're in line with the overall makeup of the team: scrappy operators who typically rose to the occasion.

Franck was an extraordinary playmaker from wider areas at his peak, and up there with Robben as one of the most complete passing + dribbling threads + penetrative threats over the last decade:



Arguably the most important offensive cog in the Bayern machine in the same timeframe, too - capping it off with inspired performances en route to the European Cup title.

FIFA Ballon d'Or: Third place 2013
Globe Soccer Best Footballer of the Year: 2013
Bundesliga top assists: 2011–12, 2012–13
UEFA Best Player in Europe Award: 2012–13

And Šuker can act as the perfect foil with his movement, workrate and eye for goal, so there aren't overt concerns regarding their symbiotic 'fit':



UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament: 1996
ESM Team of the Year: 1996–97
1998 FIFA World Cup Golden Shoe
1998 FIFA World Cup Silver Ball
Onze de Bronze: 1998
Ballon d'Or (Runner-up): 1998
FIFA World Player of the Year (Bronze Award): 1998

~100 clubs goals over a period of 4 seasons at Sevilla and Madrid was a quality return for that era, IMO. Not to mention, a peak of a goal per game at international level.

Additionally, Ribéry has the Alaba type athletic wingback to operate on the outside channel in Ziege - so the flank is built to his peak strengths.


 
if its individual recognition we are looking at then ronaldo takes the lot
 
if its individual recognition we are looking at then ronaldo takes the lot

Don't see the point in this almost retaliatory post, to be honest. Those two were getting highlighted purely because some of their accomplishments aren't always adequately recognized in the context of a draft. Doubt the same applies to Cristiano, we get it - he's the best offensive player in the draft after Messi and Fenómeno, and has a big list of accomplishments. That's a major selling point, and doesn't necessitate reiterating. It was not like we were bigging up the R1 pick in Nesta - whose credentials are almost universally acknowledged (similar to Cristiano), and who doesn't need hyping as an individual component of the team in this particular pool (again, similar to Cristiano).
 
Don't see the point in this almost retaliatory post, to be honest. Those two were getting highlighted purely because some of their accomplishments aren't always adequately recognized in the context of a draft. Doubt the same applies to Cristiano, we get it - he's the best offensive player in the draft after Messi and Fenómeno, and has a big list of accomplishments. That's a major selling point. But, it was not like we were bigging up the R1 pick in Nesta - whose credentials are almost universally acknowledged (similar to Cristiano), and who doesn't need hyping as an individual component of the team in this particular pool (again, similar to Cristiano).
apologies I wasn't trying to upset anyone, was aiming for humor. All the players in the drafts will be able to post great accomplishments :)
 
apologies I wasn't trying to upset anyone, was aiming for humor. All the players in the drafts will be able to post great accomplishments :)
Ah, don't mind me. Draft matchday threads typically bring out all the pent-up grumpiness. :p
 
I will launch 2 debates, one per team.

1. What do you think about the following presentation?

---- Davids -------- Scholes
----------- Essien

Sorry if I'm wrong but I see Scholes as a deep-lying playmaker or a regista while the presentation might suggest he would be asked to play high & closed to the offensive trio.

2. Happy to see Okocha here. I don't know Okocha version Bolton but I still remember him in Paris (98-02). He was usually deployed as a central playmaker who sometimes challeng the FB on the wings. So, he could do a good job here but, in this case, I would expect him to play as a right-side midfielder (and not as a winger), so to be close to Pirlo. In other words, I see a 4-4-2 here.

Don't get me wrong for once, there are no tactical flows and all the players can do the job.

Just curious to know more about your expectations about these players.