Surveillance Draft - QF - Physiocrat vs Tuppet

Who would win?

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    27
  • Poll closed .

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Physiocrat

Tactics

4231 out of possession, 3232 in possession

In possession the team looks like:

----------Signori---Ruud---------
Serginho---Riquelme---Laudrup---
---------De Rossi--Modric---------
-----Campbell-T Silva-Thuram---

Defensive Line High (very little pace up front for Tuppet)
Moderate/High risk possession team (possession with a purpose) stretching the play both laterally and vertically.

Player Name - Player Position - Player Role

Oliver Kahn - Goalkeeper - Stop the opposition from scoring
Thiago Silva - Centre Back - Ball Playing CB/ Covering Defender
Sol Campbell - Centre Back - Stopper
Lilian Thuram - Right Back - Defensive
Serginho - Left Back - Attacking
Daniele De Rossi - Defensive Midfielder - Holding and Destroying Midfielder
Luka Modric - Central Midfielder – Creative CM
Juan Roman Riquelme - Attacking Midfielder – Classic No.10 Playmaker
Brian Laudrup - Right Wing – Roaming Winger
Beppe Signori - Left Wing – Goalscoring Inside Left
Ruud van Nistelrooy - Centre Forward – Cultured Target Man

Bench- Geremi, Leighton Baines, David Silva

NB. Since Sol Campbell is captain I'm guaranteed a monstrous performance and no accusations of racism.


Squad Numbers for Injuries:

Thiago Silva 5
Sol Campbell 4
Lilian Thuram 2
Serginho 3
Daniele De Rossi 6
Luka Modric 8
Juan Roman Riquelme 10
Brian Laudrup 7
Beppe Signori 11
Ruud van Nistelrooy 9

Physio-67-87-formation-tactics.png
tuppet-formation-tactics.png


Tuppet

Subs: 12. Panucci, 13. Ince, 14. Kostadinov

Tactics:
We'll be lining up in a 4-3-1-2 formation. To get the obvious out of the way, it is a narrow formation in attack. While all of Forlan, Zidane, Enrique, Evra & Arce are capable in attacking from wide positions (Esp Arce who was a great crosser from deep), there is clearly no focus on kicking it wide and crossing it in wingplay. This focus through the middle is intentional as I want the game to flow through Zidane, who is my best player and is the best attacker on the field. Its in this exact same formation he achieved super stardom at Juventus. Ancelotti once remarked that its because of Zidane he had to abandon his favorite 4-4-2 & 4-3-3 and move to 4-3-1-2 formations, as it maximized Zidane's talents.

Attack:
Ibra and Forlan makes a classic Targetman-Poacher duo. While they clearly are more complete than just those roles, still Ibra with his physicality, ariel ability and hold up play, and Forlan with his finishing, work rate and positioning fulfill these roles very well. Both are great technician and Ibra's creativity does not clash with Zidane, who used to play with Del Piero as one of the front two in similar formation at Juve.

Midfield:
Schweinsteiger & Enrique would play as shuttlers in left and right CM positions. Both have great technique along with work rate and both have experience in playing as left & right wingers respectively. This allows them to patrol wide areas effectively especially covering the full backs. Sousa is another one in my midfield who marries passing ability with defensive solidity, playing as holding midfielder. This midfield with its tireless running and technical ability is built to provide the platform on which Zidane can shine.

Defense:
Both Stam & Kompany are all round defenders - strong in tackle, while also decent on ball. While they don't have Bonucci's ability on ball, having Sousa as deep lying midfielder mitigates it to some extent. Evra and Arce are both balanced fullbacks, providing width in attack but also maintaining shape in defese. Usually one would stay back when the other is attacking to make sure we have numbers to defend a counter. Finally Petr Cech rounds off as one of the finest striker Premier league has seen.

Overall I think my team should have major share of possession, which combined with 2 lethal forwards and creativity of Zidane should result in goals. On the other hand I have enough solidity at back and in the mid to hold off physio's counter attacks.
 
Odd. Schweinsteiger, a former RW, on the left. Lucho, a former leftback who found his best form attacking the inside left channel, right.

Competent yes, optimal no.
 
Arce is going to have a torrid time with Serginho and Signori. They saw off Javier Zanetti last game so Arce will be less of an issue.

P Sousa is a good pivot but far from the ideal midfielder to stop Riquelme from probing passes to Laudrup, Ruud and Signori. De Rossi is much better suited style wise to stunt Zidane.

Also I still don't buy Ibra and Zidane. Mainly because Ibra drops deep in central areas and wants to be a creative force. Del Piero was creative but would drift leftwards allowing Zidane space. Zidane at Real did have Raul dropping deep centrally he was much more of a second striker than creator so there was little clashing
 
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As a number purist I'm most concerned about Arce sporting 3 and Serginho 2. And Godrup should have 11, not 7, although that one is more forgivable.
 
Physiocrat said:
Also Signori popping in the gap between Kompany and Arce is definitely a weakness that can be exploited.
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That gap has a name, Jaap Stam, not sure that he'll agree with the "weakness" label
 
antohan said:
Odd. Schweinsteiger, a former RW, on the left. Lucho, a former leftback who found his best form attacking the inside left channel, right.

Competent yes, optimal no.
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I always though that Schweiny at his peak played closer to the left, and that's definitely my preferred version of him.

From that game against Barca

Pressing scheme 1 and 2

Bayern-vs-Barcelona-Bayern-Pressing.png
Bayern-vs-Barcelona-Bayern-Jagen2.png


Won't argue about Enrique as you definitely have seen more of him, I'm comfortable with him in any position, really
 
harms said:
That gap has a name, Jaap Stam, not sure that he'll agree with the "weakness" label
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My mistake. I somehow thought they were the other way around. Stam is a great defender no doubt and it will be a great tussle between and Signori. I just think he'll be having to help Arce out quite a bit. Also I'm glad that Kompany's on Ruud as I'm confident the latter can get the better of him with his intelligent movement; he'll also win aerial duels too.
 
antohan said:
Odd. Schweinsteiger, a former RW, on the left. Lucho, a former leftback who found his best form attacking the inside left channel, right.

Competent yes, optimal no.
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But I'd suggest that Luis Enrique offers more bursting threat from his side, whereas on the left-central channel you've already got Zidane's tendency to drift left and Forlan dropping into the inside-left pocket cluttering that area.
 
Not to mention Lucho played right wing as well, so I don't see the issue there.

Schweini on the left, again don't see a major issue there either. We are picking faults with arguable two of the most versatile midfielders in this match. Schweini in the recent game where he came off the bench, he was occupying a left midfield position at times and looked very comfortable.. pretty sure I've seen him down that flank on a number of occasions at his peak.

Anyway does anyone mind telling me more about Signori.. the only thing I know about him was that he was class for me on Fifa 95 on the megadrive but my knowledge on him is limited. Would he be a tough match-up for Arce?
 
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Gio said:
As a number purist I'm most concerned about Arce sporting 3 and Serginho 2. And Godrup should have 11, not 7, although that one is more forgivable.
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Serginho has number 3. I based my numbers from the old 235 hence T Silva having 5 like the old centre halves.
 
harms said:
I always though that Schweiny at his peak played closer to the left, and that's definitely my preferred version of him.

From that game against Barca

Pressing scheme 1 and 2

Bayern-vs-Barcelona-Bayern-Pressing.png
Bayern-vs-Barcelona-Bayern-Jagen2.png


Won't argue about Enrique as you definitely have seen more of him, I'm comfortable with him in any position, really
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Yeah, personally I think his best was on the left, but this is a diamond so, given the necessary width-providing remit, you would expect him right.

Both are competent, as I said, and it may be more down to the fine margin of who is in front of them, but if you think about that aspect of their role it is odd.

Furthermore, Zidane usually drifts left, si I'd rather the more creative BFS on the right. Also, Lucho is a menace aerially, so you'd rather he was on the other side to Ibra.

All points to a swap really.
 
Gio said:
But I'd suggest that Luis Enrique offers more bursting threat from his side, whereas on the left-central channel you've already got Zidane's tendency to drift left and Forlan dropping into the inside-left pocket cluttering that area.
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Yeah, that's fair. Although the crux of the issue there really isn't about Lucho but a separate one on Zidane-Forlan.

See above for other aspects.
 
Raees said:
Not to mention Lucho played right wing as well, so I don't see the issue there.

Schweini on the left, again don't see a major issue there either. We are picking faults with arguable two of the most versatile midfielders in this match. Schweini in the recent game where he came off the bench, he was occupying a left midfield position at times and looked very comfortable.. pretty sure I've seen him down that flank on a number of occasions at his peak.

Anyway does anyone mind telling me more about Signori.. the only thing I know about him was that he was class for me on Fifa 95 on the megadrive but my knowledge on him is limited. Would he be a tough match-up for Arce?
Click to expand...
Not faults, just plenty of relevant finer details to consider to optimise.
 
Raees said:
Not to mention Lucho played right wing as well, so I don't see the issue there.

Schweini on the left, again don't see a major issue there either. We are picking faults with arguable two of the most versatile midfielders in this match. Schweini in the recent game where he came off the bench, he was occupying a left midfield position at times and looked very comfortable.. pretty sure I've seen him down that flank on a number of occasions at his peak.

Anyway does anyone mind telling me more about Signori.. the only thing I know about him was that he was class for me on Fifa 95 on the megadrive but my knowledge on him is limited. Would he be a tough match-up for Paddy?
Click to expand...

107 goals in 155 games for Lazio in the mid-90s in Serie A. Top Scorer in the 92-93, 93-94 and the 95-96 (jointly held) seasons. In those seasons (between 92-96) he played 114 league games scoring 90 goals which is an incredible 0.79 goals per game in the defensively strong Serie A. In comparison Batistuta's best four consecutive seasons, between 97/98 -00-01 (I know it's a bit later but I wanted a four season comparison) he played 117 league games and scored 85 goals averaging 0.73 goals a game. Now Signori may not score quite as many in this position than he did at Lazio but he'll be a huge threat against Arce. Here's Signori's 10 ten goals. You can also easily find a compliation of all his Serie A goals on YouTube.



Evra faces Laudrup btw. This is a good all touches compilation for Fiorentina. He assist for the first goal is exactly the kind of play Ruud will thrive on.

 
antohan said:
Not faults, just plenty of relevant finer details to consider to optimise.
Click to expand...

Oh don't get me wrong, it does matter especially when trying to differentiate between two top sides as we have here.. we've seen with Pogba how which side a midfielder plays is incredibly vital. Just saying with the players in question, they both have previous in playing the sides they have been positioned here and are the type of players imo who wouldn't drop in performance if featured on any side of that diamond.

Lucho played left back, but he also played right winger. So he is comfortable on either side of the pitch. Bastian, I have seen play left wing as well as on the right when he was breaking through and I have seen him play either side of the midfield.. looks very comfortable and if anything when he's down the left, he dribbles more with it and can cut in and unleash that shot.
 
This is a bit of a slow thread.

@Aldo

Out of interest why did you vote for Tuppet? There have only been two votes so far the other being me voting for myself.
 
Don't really see an issue with Schweinsteiger on the left. One of his most iconic performances (Bronze game in the 2006 WC against Portugal, can't embed YouTube video) came from playing there, when he cut in from the left twice, scoring two fantastic goals (and forcing an own goal with a free kick from a left sided position). However it can be argued that he's in a more defensive position in this lineup compared to the one he was in in 2006.
 
harms said:
Not sure that his goalscoring record backs up your claim.
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:lol: Damn!! well if anyone has not guessed it right, I meant GK.

On Schweini - Lucho positions in midfield most stuff is covered by others. Just another point which I forgot to add to OP is that Lucho would be more attacking of the duo, because well he is more attacking. So in attack I want Lucho to pull right, while Zidane/Forlan can pull left.

Physiocrat said:
Arce is going to have a torrid time with Serginho and Signori. They saw off Javier Zanetti last game so Arce will be less of an issue.

P Sousa is a good pivot but far from the ideal midfielder to stop Riquelme from probing passes to Laudrup, Ruud and Signori. De Rossi is much better suited style wise to stunt Zidane.

Also I still don't buy Ibra and Zidane. Mainly because Ibra drops deep in central areas and wants to be a creative force. Del Piero was creative but would drift leftwards allowing Zidane space. Zidane at Real did have Raul dropping deep centrally he was much more of a second striker than creator so there was little clashing
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You have already drawn your formation while in possession showing Signori mostly in central position. Not sure Signori would even face Arce that much, Serginho I am sure Arce can handle. There is also Enrique and Stam to help him out, I think defensively the wing is secure.

P Sousa is not stopping Riquelme alone either. As a pivot in diamond, the only players I would take above him are Alonso or Pirlo in this draft, so you can see the kind of profile of midfielder I was looking for. Which is why I have 2 very complete and defensively solid midfielders in Schweini and Enrique in defensive phase. Zidane vs Modric-De Rossi on the other hand seem far more like a mismatch to me. On peak form Zidane can destroy the best of defensive midfielders.

I have already mentioned Zidane has played with Del Piero who was far more of a playmaker than Ibra. Raul is probably more comparable to Ibra and Zidane worked well with him as well. His dropping deep is overstated to me anyway, he does it for Sweden because there he has to be the hub of game as their best player. When you need a target man to maintain a presence in the box, he provides it very well, as you can see from our games. In one of his best seasons with Milan, he was playing exactly this role, with Robinho on left and Boateng behind him and Ibra was exceptional as a target man.
 
Schweini has played more on the right, being on the left in those games was down to Schneider providing the width on the RW(he's better in the attacking sense and in that sense in general than Schweini) and Lahm with more opportunity to bomb forward so it made sense having a tucked in Schweini on the leftish side. That doesn't mean that he's spend his peak there so to speak.

It's more of a formation and tactics thing.

In general sense I agree with @antohan - they are better off swapped.

In this case however you have Evra with license to roam forward and both Forlan and Zidane naturally inclined to move to the left in the final third. So a more tucked in Schweini makes sense and he'll be more central rather and provide cover.

On the other hand you have Lucho providing the width in the attacking third with Ibra pretty central and Arce supporting so he's better off there.

As for the game itself. I don't rate Signori in that role as I mentioned in the previous game with Physio. Having Riquelme in the hole and Ruud doesn't help it at all as it would require Signori being more on the wing than centrally which he liked best.

Furthermore I can see Tuppet controlling the midfield. Sousa, Schweni and Lucho will trump De Rossi and Modric in the middle with Riquelme offering feck all. I can see Tuppet controlling the midfield and I can't see De Rossi stopping Zidane who will dictate the game.
 
Gone for Tuppet here. I prefer the balance to his side - the only question mark I'd really have is over Arce because I don't remember too much of him. I don't really see a massive issue even if Zlatan did drop deeper at times. There'd still be a striker up there who is capable of finishing, and I don't think De Rossi and Modric would be able to shackle both Zidane and Ibra. Bastian, Sousa and Lucho is more than good enough for this game, and I like Stam and Kompany at the back.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Schweini has played more on the right, being on the left in those games was down to Schneider providing the width on the RW(he's better in the attacking sense and in that sense in general than Schweini) and Lahm with more opportunity to bomb forward so it made sense having a tucked in Schweini on the leftish side. That doesn't mean that he's spend his peak there so to speak.

It's more of a formation and tactics thing.

In general sense I agree with @antohan - they are better off swapped.

In this case however you have Evra with license to roam forward and both Forlan and Zidane naturally inclined to move to the left in the final third. So a more tucked in Schweini makes sense and he'll be more central rather and provide cover.

On the other hand you have Lucho providing the width in the attacking third with Ibra pretty central and Arce supporting so he's better off there.

As for the game itself. I don't rate Signori in that role as I mentioned in the previous game with Physio. Having Riquelme in the hole and Ruud doesn't help it at all as it would require Signori being more on the wing than centrally which he liked best.

Furthermore I can see Tuppet controlling the midfield. Sousa, Schweni and Lucho will trump De Rossi and Modric in the middle with Riquelme offering feck all. I can see Tuppet controlling the midfield and I can't see De Rossi stopping Zidane who will dictate the game.
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I'd agree with that. As said, I was on a cab going to a meeting and individually it looked odd but it was bound to go down to fit with the other parts.

No swap, no.

@Raees, I love Lucho anywhere, and RW is fine, but his beastly goalscoring form under Robson was in the inside left channel.
 
antohan said:
I love Lucho anywhere
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Puts my fandom for El Principe and Pupi to shame!

@Physiocrat Enigma covered most of the points I was going to type. My biggest gripe is that Riquelme has come against an incredibly tough midfield here who bring incredible workrate, tenacity and mental toughness to the table. A lot of your forward punch depends on him having a great game and that looks a bit bleak here. As well as his lack of defensive effort on the other side with both Bastian and Lucho contributing in attack would leave things unbalanced.
 
antohan said:
No swap, no.

@Raees, I love Lucho anywhere, and RW is fine, but his beastly goalscoring form under Robson was in the inside left channel.
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No worries Anto, you learn something new each draft.. my assumption based on following drafts was that Lucho is boss everywhere but interesting to know even he had an optimal position in terms of specific midfield position.
 
Tuppet said:
You have already drawn your formation while in possession showing Signori mostly in central position. Not sure Signori would even face Arce that much, Serginho I am sure Arce can handle. There is also Enrique and Stam to help him out, I think defensively the wing is secure.
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Serginho pops up with three assists and a goal against Inter. He has some serious attacking prowess which he is at liberty to use which will be exploited by Signori and Ruud.



Tuppet said:
P Sousa is not stopping Riquelme alone either. As a pivot in diamond, the only players I would take above him are Alonso or Pirlo in this draft, so you can see the kind of profile of midfielder I was looking for. Which is why I have 2 very complete and defensively solid midfielders in Schweini and Enrique in defensive phase. Zidane vs Modric-De Rossi on the other hand seem far more like a mismatch to me. On peak form Zidane can destroy the best of defensive midfielders.
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I understand how you were setting up I'd just prefer someone like Mascherano to be on a pure playmaker. Also unless you want you full-backs one-one you'll need at least one of Enrique or Bastian outwide so in reality, in most cases, it will be Riquelme vs Sousa and Bastian/Enrique which is a far less intimidating than you imply. When Riquelme has the platform to perform, he does- the 2006 World Cup is testimony to that. And if any of the lurkers don't know how good he is:



Tuppet said:
I have already mentioned Zidane has played with Del Piero who was far more of a playmaker than Ibra. Raul is probably more comparable to Ibra and Zidane worked well with him as well. His dropping deep is overstated to me anyway, he does it for Sweden because there he has to be the hub of game as their best player. When you need a target man to maintain a presence in the box, he provides it very well, as you can see from our games. In one of his best seasons with Milan, he was playing exactly this role, with Robinho on left and Boateng behind him and Ibra was exceptional as a target man.
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If you want to use Ibra as a target man he can do the job well but it removes from his game what made him special. Also his finishing is erratic. It wasn't the no reason that the UK press didn't rate him since in the big games in the CL he bottled it a lot - Ruud on the other hand is a far more clinical finisher and would be much better suited to the role you're playing Ibra.

Forlan, whilst being a quality player, is up against Thuram (a GOAT defensive right-back) and one of the great CBs of out time Thiago Silva. I don't see him getting much joy at all there. Ruud up against Kompany (who is the worst CB on the pitch) will have far more joy than Ibra or Forlan.
 
Another word on De Rossi who is being rather underrated. At his height he was Serie A player of the year in 2009. He has over 400 games for Roma and 110 for Italy. He has played DM and sweeper but combines them with a tenaciousness of a traditional DM enforcer, only Mascherano is better at blending these traits in this pool. He was also considered the man to sort out Utd's midfield years ago and was constantly linked. His performances recently haven't been up to his 2009 best but it shouldn't cloud our peak judgement of him.



This video shows quite well his passing range as well as he positional intelligence and his tackling prowess.
 
Yeah I would add Mascherano to the list of DMs I would have taken over Sousa as well, mostly because Mascherano's passing is underrated. But then again Sousa is not some no mark midfielder. He has won back to back champions league with two different clubs in this exact role. So its not like he would not be perfectly suitable to stop Riquelme, but to add to it obviously Schweini and Enrique going to help out.

I rate Riquelme but I don't think you have perfect platform for him here anyway. Signori/Ruud/Laudrup neither is going to work hard for him. The 4-3-1-2 formation would actually be perfect for him. Its the goto formation for the Argentine Enganche role, where 3 midfielder does dirty work for him and it liberates him from any defensive duties. In 2006 world cup for example he had Mascherano - Cambiasso behind him.
 
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Tuppet said:
Yeah I would add Mascherano to the list of DMs I would have taken over Sousa as well, mostly because Mascherano's passing is underrated. But then again Sousa is not some no mark midfielder. He has won back to back champions league with two different clubs in this exact role. So its not like he would not be perfectly suitable to stop Riquelme, but to add to it obviously Schweini and Enrique going to help out.

I rate Riquelme but I don't think you have perfect platform for him here anyway. Signori/Ruud/Laudrup neither is going to work much hard. The 4-3-1-2 formation would actually be perfect for him. Its the goto formation for the Argentine Enganche role, where 3 midfielder does dirty work for him and it liberates him from any defensive duties. In 2006 world cup for example he had Mascherano - Cambiasso behind him.
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He did but Modric is no slouch defensively. Not as solid as the above but certianly can do a job. This also brings me to remind everyone jsut how good Modric is- since peak Xavi he has been the world's best CM bar none. Excellent range of short and long passing, work-rate and intelligence. There is no team in the world in which he would not improve their side.

This recent all touches compilation vs Barca shows his excellent passing range, dribbling and defensive nous.

 
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