Superman: Man Of Steel

The problem with Superman is Superman. The fact he was one of the first (or possibly the first? Geeks will have to school me here) shows. You'd never get away with creating a character like that now.

So what does your new superhero do?

Everything.

Everything?

Yeah. He can do anything.

Can he fly?

Yeah yeah. He can do everything. He shoots lasers from his eyes too..And frost from his breath...Basically everything. It's super cool.

So what's his weakness?

He doesn't have one.

Well, he's got to have a weakness. Otherwise where will the drama come from? If he just stops everyone doing bad things, then that isn't much of a story.

Right, shit. Errrrrr well he's allergic to something.

What's he allergic to?

A rock or something

What kind of rock?

Oh, from his home world. Yeah. It's part of his home world.

He's allergic to his own home world?

Yeah.

That doesn't make much sense.

Well Ok, part of his home world. There's this thing and ..well he's allergic to it alright?

Ok, so where's his home world?

Oh it was destroyed. That's the first thing that happens right....

Wait, so how do people get this rock thing then?

Errr...well they do. It's around. Like there's loads of it about.

How?

There just is.

That doesn't make any sense

You don't make any sense.

What?

Shut up.
 
The problem with Superman is that he is a super hero. And all super hero films/books/comics/tv shows are universally shit and made to entertain the mentally sub-normal.
 
Super hero stories are on the same level as wrestling. Pathetic nonsense in silly costumes.
 
MAN WALKS BACK INTO OFFICE:

Wait, wait, I've got some more stuff.

Oh christ.

Basically, he's a reporter.

He's a reporter?

Yeah.

Why?

I dunno, so he can report on things and find out what's happening.

Hold on, can't he do everything?

Yeah.

So he's got, like, super hearing too right?

Yeah definitely. He can hear anything from anywhere.

So why does he need to be a reporter?

I dunno..he does though. That's his disguise.

Why does he need a disguise?

Errr, well, so that the bad guys can't hurt those close to him. Cos they don't know who he is.

Oh ok. That's cool. So who's close to him?

Louis Lane. She's this chick he works with right, she's a reporter too.

Oh ok. And he goes out with her, when he's disguised right?

No. She thinks he's an idiot when he's disguised.

Ok.

But she loves Superman right. She's like obsessed with him. That's like, the really cool bit. The irony.

Ok. But he ignores her as Superman right?

No, Superman bangs her. And like, saves her all the time and basically does whatever she wants.

Superman bangs her?

Yeah.

So...sorry, you're losing me, why does he need a disguise again?

So that....well so people dont know who he's close to...or...well something like that.

So what is this disguise then? Cos, well, those pictures you sent me are just of a man in his pants. There wasn't really anything covering his face...So how does he disguise himself? Can he change his face?

No, he can't do that.

Oh ok. So...?

Well, what he does right.....he wears glasses!

Get out.

But no one knows it's him right..

Get out. Now
 
Mockney said:
MAN WALKS BACK INTO OFFICE:

Wait, wait, I've got some more stuff.

Oh christ.

Basically, he's a reporter.

He's a reporter?

Yeah.

Why?

I dunno, so he can report on things and find out what's happening.

Hold on, can't he do everything?

Yeah.

So he's got, like, super hearing too right?

Yeah definitely. He can hear anything from anywhere.

So why does he need to be a reporter?

I dunno..he does though. That's his disguise.

Why does he need a disguise?

Errr, well, so that the bad guys can't hurt those close to him. Cos they don't know who he is.

Oh ok. That's cool. So who's close to him?

Louis Lane. She's this chick he works with right, she's a reporter too.

Oh ok. And he goes out with her, when he's disguised right?

No. She thinks he's an idiot when he's disguised.

Ok.

But she loves Superman right. She's like obsessed with him. That's like, the really cool bit. The irony.

Ok. But he ignores her as Superman right?

No, Superman bangs her. And like, saves her all the time and basically does whatever she wants.

Superman bangs her?

Yeah.

So...sorry, you're losing me, why does he need a disguise again?

So that....well so people dont know who he's close to...or...well something like that.

So what is this disguise then? Cos, well, those pictures you sent me are just of a man in his pants. There wasn't really anything covering his face...So how does he disguise himself? Can he change his face?

No, he can't do that.

Oh ok. So...?

Well, what he does right.....he wears glasses!

Get out.

But no one knows it's him right..

Get out. Now
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:lol: You have to take a leap of faith with comic book characters otherwise you can dumb them all down like that.
 
Of course, but there are degrees of it. Things should still have a semblance of sense about them and the characters should still have a strong personality, no matter how silly their pants are. Otherwise you could say that about any fiction in any genre.

The basic Batman premise, which was only created a few years after Superman's is a far stronger story for example. Man's parents are killed when he's a kid, man grows up to fight crime in a mask using his enormous wealth. He has his limits and he has his own motivation. Already from that you get a sense of why the character's doing this and how. Even if it is ostensibly about a mentally unhinged loon who dresses up as a flying rat and enjoys the company of small boys in his underground cave.

Someone mentioned the Hulk earlier. Another good one. Man battles with his inner demons and anger issues. It's Jekyll & Hyde redux.

Superman is an especially weak character. Man who can do everything. He's seminal and old and iconic etc..But he's still a weak character. He's a Mary Sue practically. Or whatever the boy version of that is. (EDIT: apparently it's Gary Stu)
 
You would really hate Martian Manhunter.

He can fly, he's super strong, he's fast, he can turn invisible, he can change shape, he can become intangible, he can read minds, he's got "Martian vision" and he's really intelligent. His weakness is fire. Sometimes. Sometimes he's just afraid of fire.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
Super hero stories are on the same level as wrestling. Pathetic nonsense in silly costumes.
Click to expand...

I am inclined to agree. Though I very much liked Nolan's Batman movies. I also liked the Iron Main movies, and I guess some of the Spider-Man movies weren't terrible.

It's also part of why I hate the Borg in Star Trek. They're just too good. Might as well pack up now, because there's no way we're going to defea- oh wait, unlikely weakness. Sweet.
 
When Superman was firts created , he couldn't fly, he was superstrong but not to the level he is shown as now (Spiderman is stronger in comparison), he was fast but nowhere near the level is he now ( about 100 mph) , he had supersense, but not to the level he has now, telescopic site, hearing peoples conversations in the next room, no heat vision, nor was he indestuctable, bullets couldn't hurt him but large artillery or a speeding train would kill him. Also he could control the features on his face so he could change his appearance to utilise the Clark Kent persona as well as donning the glasses. Unfortuanetly the original artist wasn't that good and they didn't want him appearing to different so the kids wouldn't get confused, eventually they just forgot about it. He was orginally created as the idea of King David returned (seriously). What people need to realise about golden age characters is they weren't invented to be superhoeros but gangster busters Dick tracy type characters were all the rage back then, In the Batman and Superman you had the evolution of the genre into these 2 characters, one who had the finances the will, the reason and became the ultimate gangbuster in a human sense, the next step was Superman, an alien with extraordinary abilities. It was only during the 40's when they amped him up, the world of the Gangster was waning, now they had World War to deal with grabbing the kids attention, so they expanded him beyond belief. (You want a better idea, watch the Watchmen ( or even better read it) it's all about the history of comics and not floppy blue penises) Anyway modern times, when Superman tales are done best is when they exploit what he is, the man of tomorrow, a god amongst men. Not a brooding hero. Just fun and dumb action where the impossible doesn't need explaining in every minute detail, nor the psychology behind thieir every brooding action.
Best Superman stories and interpretations to read:
John Byrnes revamp.
Kingdom Come.
Red Son.
Birthright.
What ever happened to the man of tomorrow.
All Star Superman.
The death ofSuperman ( not the 90's doomsday stuff).
For the man who has everything.
 
Superman got so powerful at one point that he actually blew out a star. That was back in the 50's or 60's.
He was gradually being made more and more powerful by the comic book writers, that they began having trouble finding conflict for Superman to deal with. It got to the point where there was nothing he couldn't do, no trouble he couldn't handle. I mean, he blew out a star.
 
Mockney said:
The problem with Superman is Superman. The fact he was one of the first (or possibly the first? Geeks will have to school me here) shows. You'd never get away with creating a character like that now.

So what does your new superhero do?

Everything.

Everything?

Yeah. He can do anything.

Can he fly?

Yeah yeah. He can do everything. He shoots lasers from his eyes too..And frost from his breath...Basically everything. It's super cool.

So what's his weakness?

He doesn't have one.

Well, he's got to have a weakness. Otherwise where will the drama come from? If he just stops everyone doing bad things, then that isn't much of a story.

Right, shit. Errrrrr well he's allergic to something.

What's he allergic to?

A rock or something

What kind of rock?

Oh, from his home world. Yeah. It's part of his home world.

He's allergic to his own home world?

Yeah.

That doesn't make much sense.

Well Ok, part of his home world. There's this thing and ..well he's allergic to it alright?

Ok, so where's his home world?

Oh it was destroyed. That's the first thing that happens right....

Wait, so how do people get this rock thing then?

Errr...well they do. It's around. Like there's loads of it about.

How?

There just is.

That doesn't make any sense

You don't make any sense.

What?

Shut up.
Click to expand...

Nobody would ever buy that as an idea pitched to them. That's why such an event as you describe never happened. The original Superman was just a strong guy who came from another world and could run as fast as a train, jump as high as a 20 storey building and lift tremendous weights. Then, other media not written by the original comics creators came along like radio shows and cartoons and they added extra powers. Now Superman could fly and do all kinds of things. They made him so powerful that people lost interest because he was never in any danger. That's when they invented kryptonite to overcome that problem, which caused a lot of problems in itself.

The disguise thing was for a couple of reasons, one of which was as a joke against Lois Lane, who was supposed to be a great investigative journalist but she was so wrapped up in her obsession with Superman that she didn't even notice the guy she worked with everyday was the same man. She dismisses a decent man because only Superman is good enough for her. Obviously comics were mainly aimed at kids in the 30s and 40s and though they would not have got the joke, they didn't really think past the fact that Superman and his alterego dressed differently and acted differently. Also, in the cartoons, they had completely different voices as well. It is like how sometimes you'll see an actor in a completely different role and wonder if it really is them. Obviously the fact that his disguise was so flimsy set up a lot of stories over the years where characters would start to suspect they were the same person and the fun was in seeing how he continued to convince them otherwise.

I'm looking forward to this film, I must admit. I don't expect much from it though. A lot of slo-mo is guaranteed, but I don't know why they are going over the Zod storyline again. We've already had two films of it (the first Superman film is unlikely to be beat, despite some dated effects and a few cheesy scenes) and he wasn't even a big villain in the comics. Also, nobody will top Terence Stamp's Zod, there's no point trying.
 
609366-588184_fncr_cv7_large_super.jpg
 
decorativeed said:
I'm looking forward to this film, I must admit. I don't expect much from it though. A lot of slo-mo is guaranteed, but I don't know why they are going over the Zod storyline again. We've already had two films of it (the first Superman film is unlikely to be beat, despite some dated effects and a few cheesy scenes) and he wasn't even a big villain in the comics. Also, nobody will top Terence Stamp's Zod, there's no point trying.
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Got to admit the choice of Zod over the likes of Brainiac or Darkseid is daft for me. Also hoping Zack curbs is visual style for this a bit. He along with Bay really need to get an understanding of visual pacing. How can the site of big robots batling out become so visually dull so quickly is beyond me.
 
Of course, Superman at his most comic-booky and overpowered is also Superman at his most hilarious.

Superman Is A Dick

I wouldn't mind seeing Darkseid and the New Gods in their own film. I highly doubt it will ever happen though.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
:lol: Some of those are brilliant.

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1296_4_048.jpg


Superheroes are for gimps.
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That was a horrible time for comics, see that thing in the top right corner. You have to see that that was the biggest handcuffs on the creative diversity of american comics ever. Imagine a film rating stricter than 'U' and that it was the only one allowed. Thank god it died it's death in the 80's.
 
Wonder Pigeon said:
You would really hate Martian Manhunter.

He can fly, he's super strong, he's fast, he can turn invisible, he can change shape, he can become intangible, he can read minds, he's got "Martian vision" and he's really intelligent. His weakness is fire. Sometimes. Sometimes he's just afraid of fire.
Click to expand...

He would have been horrible in 'Nam. Do fireworks work against him or does he know better?

I'm no superhero nerd but I do know the names of most and basic storyline. Watching the Justice League animated shows, this guy poked my interest bone the most. He's just not used as much in the shows because when he crops up danger gets erased.
 
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