Summer 2019 Midfield Rebuild

Fer said:
Do you consider Gueye a better signing than Ndidi for the DM position?
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Yeah at this moment i rate above Ndidi. Gueye is smaller and quicker. Ndidi is a tall guy, still on the development curve. Im not impress of Ndidi. My first dcm choice is Kante. But Chelsea got transfer banned and i dont think Lampard will sell Kante in the future.

I really like Gueye combination passing football. Quick and precise passing football.

I was looking after another option to Kante. Then Gueye pop up first on my head. He still has the running legs. I saw him on the late stage of African nation cup. Its when i was satisfy with his quick precise passing combination football. From A to B, he use to hit the target. And he had decent acceleration and speed. Still summer 2019.
 
4-2-3-1 with 2 CMs is Ole's response to not getting another CM.

5 players for 2 slots is for me plenty, the overall quality of it though.. need more better quality CM.

About 16 more days left.

That said, at least this open up the #10/CAM slot meaning we have 3 attackers supporting the sole striker.
= more chances hopefully for the likes of Gomes, Chong and Greenwood to get more games then.

Gomes hasn't sign new contract and have 6 months left before free. Need games to be convinced.

No new CMs meant more chances for McT, Pereira and Fred to improve. Once they do, we'll benefit and save money.

:lol:So many ifs there. And another..
If things go according to plan, it won't be a bad situation at all.
 
LuckyScout78 said:
Yeah at this moment i rate above Ndidi. Gueye is smaller and quicker. Ndidi is a tall guy, still on the development curve. Im not impress of Ndidi. My first dcm choice is Kante. But Chelsea got transfer banned and i dont think Lampard will sell Kante in the future.

I really like Gueye combination passing football. Quick and precise passing football.

I was looking after another option to Kante. Then Gueye pop up first on my head. He still has the running legs. I saw him on the late stage of African nation cup. Its when i was satisfy with his quick precise passing combination football. From A to B, he use to hit the target. And he had decent acceleration and speed. Still summer 2019.
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Players like Kante, Verrati, Casemiro, Rodri, Fabinho, Jorginho, De Jong are unrealistic in my opinion. That's way I didn't consider Kante.

Gueye would be a good signing in the 4231 formation we have been using considering his price and what he would offer to our team. If Ole wants young players, then Ndidi could be one be of the best options available.
 
Fer said:
Players like Kante, Verrati, Casemiro, Rodri, Fabinho, Jorginho, De Jong are unrealistic in my opinion. That's way I didn't consider Kante.
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They are more than realistic potentially. Unrealistic is Messi - fair enough. Others are not.
 
I think most agree that we seriously lack quality in this area on the field. PP got the abilities, but needs players behind him that can play out of defense so that PP does not have to drop deep every time and players that can spread the ball.

Among the rest of the options available:
Matic: Slower than before in his movement and takes to much time on the ball. To slow to play in a pressing and high-intensity approach.
Fred: The definition of inconsistency. Can not trust him to receive and pass the ball close to our own goal.
Pereira: Can pass and got the technical ability and desire. Seems unable to find his position on the pitch. Can play multiple positions and offer us decent set-piece delivery.
McTominay: Zero-sum player. Seldom does something bad, but then again not doing much positive either. Perfect backup.

When we knew that Herrera was going to leave, then it was clear to most of us that we needed two new starters in midfield and luckily for us at that time there was several players available that would be able to improve our starting 11 for attainable prices:

We might have tried for them, but they choose other teams: Rabiot, Rodri, Ndombele.
Players that we should have been able to get: Brandt, Barella, Sensi, Tielemans, Demirbay, Sarabia, Fornals.

With so many players that have moved clubs, the number and quality of players that are left and could be attainable are fewer than before the window opened. If we are going to buy players from the EPL now, it would be very costly. And the likes of Ndidi and Rice does not have the ability on the ball, and Neves would be to expensive and might not want to join us. Bruno Fernandes is a finisher and not a player that would suit into a midfield with PP, still the one we are most likely to sign....

Given that the number of options available are limited and we seriously lack players that can protect our defenders while at the same time being able to pass the ball we should go for Grillitsch and Marc Roca.

We could play either in a 4-3-3 with Roca(B2B) - Grillitsch(Controlling) - Pogba(Same role as for Juventus) or in a 4-2-3-1 with Pogba as CAM and the two others as holding midfielders.

Grillitsch:

Roca:
 
We can’t sign a good midfielder because Woodward much rather works on adding an official toilet paper sponsor than strengthening the squad.
 
What is our first choice midfield as it stands?

I'm assuming Matic, McTominay and Pogba in a 3?
 
Fosu-Mens said:
I think most agree that we seriously lack quality in this area on the field. PP got the abilities, but needs players behind him that can play out of defense so that PP does not have to drop deep every time and players that can spread the ball.

Among the rest of the options available:
Matic: Slower than before in his movement and takes to much time on the ball. To slow to play in a pressing and high-intensity approach.
Fred: The definition of inconsistency. Can not trust him to receive and pass the ball close to our own goal.
Pereira: Can pass and got the technical ability and desire. Seems unable to find his position on the pitch. Can play multiple positions and offer us decent set-piece delivery.
McTominay: Zero-sum player. Seldom does something bad, but then again not doing much positive either. Perfect backup.

When we knew that Herrera was going to leave, then it was clear to most of us that we needed two new starters in midfield and luckily for us at that time there was several players available that would be able to improve our starting 11 for attainable prices:

We might have tried for them, but they choose other teams: Rabiot, Rodri, Ndombele.
Players that we should have been able to get: Brandt, Barella, Sensi, Tielemans, Demirbay, Sarabia, Fornals.

With so many players that have moved clubs, the number and quality of players that are left and could be attainable are fewer than before the window opened. If we are going to buy players from the EPL now, it would be very costly. And the likes of Ndidi and Rice does not have the ability on the ball, and Neves would be to expensive and might not want to join us. Bruno Fernandes is a finisher and not a player that would suit into a midfield with PP, still the one we are most likely to sign....

Given that the number of options available are limited and we seriously lack players that can protect our defenders while at the same time being able to pass the ball we should go for Grillitsch and Marc Roca.

We could play either in a 4-3-3 with Roca(B2B) - Grillitsch(Controlling) - Pogba(Same role as for Juventus) or in a 4-2-3-1 with Pogba as CAM and the two others as holding midfielders.

Grillitsch:

Roca:
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No Sean Longstaff is the only midfielder who can improve us.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
What is our first choice midfield as it stands?

I'm assuming Matic, McTominay and Pogba in a 3?
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Hasn't 4-2-3-1 been the preferred line up in pre-season? If that is the case then I expect McTominay and Pogba and then a number 10 in front of them (one of Andreas, Mata or Lingard)
 
Alemar said:
Pogba, McTominay and NOT Matic from the looks of it. He is the worst option currently :(
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Nah Matic will definitely be in there imo, he's the only one who can really play that role. Which also shows very clearly where we should be focusing our recruitment efforts (as well as CB)! I've still got a (sinking) feeling that we'll end up buying Lemina close to the deadline just because he's freely available at a cheapish price, to give Matic some rotation.
 
charlenefan said:
Hasn't 4-2-3-1 been the preferred line up in pre-season? If that is the case then I expect McTominay and Pogba and then a number 10 in front of them (one of Andreas, Mata or Lingard)
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Maybe but is Pogba McT too attacking as a pivot pair? And then you also get the alternative issue that none of those 10s are great.
 
Alemar said:
Have you watched any of the pre-season games? Matic is shambolic, nearly anyone is currently a better choice :(
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No I haven't got MUTV and pre season is meaningless. Just about building up fitness. A few youngsters always get playing time pre season, doesn't mean they'll be playing come match day 1.
 
At the moment, bloody hell our best midfield I guess your looking at Pogba, McT, Pereira/Fred?

Does not fill me with much confidence that, looks like it will be Longstaff or nobody.

What I would give now for an out of nowhere bid for any of Neves/Rice/Doucoure
 
I still find it mind boggling that a club of our size and ambition is still in this situation with our midfield. Every other club seems to be better equipped. Yes I know smaller clubs haven't got a Pogba in them but they all seem to have more balanced and complete midfields in relation to their budgets.

McT may well step up this term, I think he can but that still leaves us really light on serious and competitive midfield quality in our starting 11. Crazy we didn't actually go for Tielemans or Neves. They were totally attainable targets and would have bolstered us no end! Couple that with Bruno and we'd have been pretty much sorted. I try an not be negative but I really expected more this window.
 
Hawks2008 said:
No Sean Longstaff is the only midfielder who can improve us.
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Ohh yeah. Sorry. I completely forgot that we could only buy players that are either British or PL-proven. Their abilities as players are not nearly as important as their nationality.

I assume we evaluate players based on these criteria ranked according to importance:
1. The number of Instagram followers.
2. The number of Twitter followers.
3. How many clicks and likes will this transfer generate?
4. Is he(gender specified due to the woman's team being better at recruitment thus should not be part of this list of recruitment criteria) British?
5. Is he PL proven?
6. Is he championship proven?
7. Will he accept not challenging for anything over the next 10 years.
.
.
.
.
Xn. Does he suit the needs of the starting 11 and the squad?
Xn+1. Is he any good?
 
StrettyEnder07 said:
At the moment, bloody hell our best midfield I guess your looking at Pogba, McT, Pereira/Fred?

Does not fill me with much confidence that, looks like it will be Longstaff or nobody.

What I would give now for an out of nowhere bid for any of Neves/Rice/Doucoure
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Well, better and cheaper players out there than trying to buy important players from EPL clubs towards the end of the window. Also, Rice does not offer that much more compared to McTominay.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Well, better and cheaper players out there than trying to buy important players from EPL clubs towards the end of the window. Also, Rice does not offer that much more compared to McTominay.
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Think Doucoure has an agreement with Watford to leave this summer, premier league proven, athletic box to box midfielder who is obtainable.

Neves is just pure class, yeah he would probably cost you 50m or so.

Rice very good, Pogba Rice McT midfield, do me big time.

Although buying a cheaper CM from another league who would probably take a year to settle in does sound tempting......
 
Doubt this will happen now. Look at the time it has taken to get AWB done.

Look how long Maguire is taken - might not happen now

If we want to buy a PL player, it is harder these days and Ed wooward needs 16 weeks not 16 days.
 
StrettyEnder07 said:
Think Doucoure has an agreement with Watford to leave this summer, premier league proven, athletic box to box midfielder who is obtainable.

Neves is just pure class, yeah he would probably cost you 50m or so.

Rice very good, Pogba Rice McT midfield, do me big time.

Although buying a cheaper CM from another league who would probably take a year to settle in does sound tempting......
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Difference between buying a player early in the window compared to the end of it, especially when there are no release clauses involved and the clubs you are buying from does not need to sell.

Doucoure would be the one I would have gone for among those you mention.
Moutinho looked and played better than Neves, who is not as good as people portray him to be.
Rice is not a bad defensive midfielder but limited with the ball. He could still become good since his touch is decent/consistent.

We could get both Roca and Grillitsch for the price of Neves or Rice. Unfortunately for us, we seem to disregard players, not in the league or British.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Difference between buying a player early in the window compared to the end of it, especially when there are no release clauses involved and the clubs you are buying from does not need to sell.

Doucoure would be the one I would have gone for among those you mention.
Moutinho looked and played better than Neves, who is not as good as people portray him to be.
Rice is not a bad defensive midfielder but limited with the ball. He could still become good since his touch is decent/consistent.

We could get both Roca and Grillitsch for the price of Neves or Rice. Unfortunately for us, we seem to disregard players, not in the league or British.
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We seem to disregard our own players. McTominay is better than both of those fecking nobodies.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Difference between buying a player early in the window compared to the end of it, especially when there are no release clauses involved and the clubs you are buying from does not need to sell.

Doucoure would be the one I would have gone for among those you mention.
Moutinho looked and played better than Neves, who is not as good as people portray him to be.
Rice is not a bad defensive midfielder but limited with the ball. He could still become good since his touch is decent/consistent.

We could get both Roca and Grillitsch for the price of Neves or Rice. Unfortunately for us, we seem to disregard players, not in the league or British.
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Not going to lie, could not even tell you who Roca and Grillitsch are haha

Doucoure looks class, I was similar to you on Rice but watched him quite a bit last year and think he is a very very good player.

And re Neves I am a big fan, every time have watched him, the two of them have just ran everything, his passing, shooting etc very good.

Would personally take any of them but we do need at least one if not two, both of who need to hit the ground running, we don't need another Fred situation.
 
StrettyEnder07 said:
Not going to lie, could not even tell you who Roca and Grillitsch are haha

Doucoure looks class, I was similar to you on Rice but watched him quite a bit last year and think he is a very very good player.

And re Neves I am a big fan, every time have watched him, the two of them have just ran everything, his passing, shooting etc very good.

Would personally take any of them but we do need at least one if not two, both of who need to hit the ground running, we don't need another Fred situation.
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Moutinho ran everything. He was making that clock tick. Neves would improve our starting 11, but that is not saying much.
Doucoure is like Sissoko without the brainfarts.
Rice is nothing special if you follow other leagues.
Grillitsch and Roca are good passers with good range, decent technical abilities, can use both feet, can defend. They are balanced midfielders that have a consistent technique, which was something Fred never had and based on the few clips available before his signing, one could see that he was a messy and inconsistent player.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Moutinho ran everything. He was making that clock tick. Neves would improve our starting 11, but that is not saying much.
Doucoure is like Sissoko without the brainfarts.
Rice is nothing special if you follow other leagues.
Grillitsch and Roca are good passers with good range, decent technical abilities, can use both feet, can defend. They are balanced midfielders that have a consistent technique, which was something Fred never had and based on the few clips available before his signing, one could see that he was a messy and inconsistent player.
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Moutinho is a very intelligent player, compliment each other very well, I'm obviously more of a fan of Neves than you, each to their own.
Doucourse, yeah maybe a bit like Sissoko but on another level to him imo
Rice very good passing, reads the game well, intercepts well, plays between the lines, for me doing it in England means a hell of a lot more than doing it Spain/Germany/France/Italy where the competition is nowhere near as competitive.
Before we signed Fred, the same was being said about him, great forward passing, gets about the pitch, tenacious, tackles, reads it well, distributes it well, hits a good free kick, he was superb in the UCL when Shaktar got to the last 16.
 
StrettyEnder07 said:
Moutinho is a very intelligent player, compliment each other very well, I'm obviously more of a fan of Neves than you, each to their own.
Doucourse, yeah maybe a bit like Sissoko but on another level to him imo
Rice very good passing, reads the game well, intercepts well, plays between the lines, for me doing it in England means a hell of a lot more than doing it Spain/Germany/France/Italy where the competition is nowhere near as competitive.
Before we signed Fred, the same was being said about him, great forward passing, gets about the pitch, tenacious, tackles, reads it well, distributes it well, hits a good free kick, he was superb in the UCL when Shaktar got to the last 16.
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What i am alluding to with Fred is that one could see that his first touch and passing was not consistent, and his stats and highlights did not portray is actual ability as a player.

Some elements of the game are transferable to other leagues and clubs: i.e. abilities on the ball, passing, technical skill, physical abilities. Performance, on the other hand, is more challenging to evaluate. So depends on what elements of the game you evaluate when comparing players from other leagues.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
What i am alluding to with Fred is that one could see that his first touch and passing was not consistent, and his stats and highlights did not portray is actual ability as a player.

Some elements of the game are transferable to other leagues and clubs: i.e. abilities on the ball, passing, technical skill, physical abilities. Performance, on the other hand, is more challenging to evaluate. So depends on what elements of the game you evaluate when comparing players from other leagues.
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Yep, which is something we have been very poor at doing. Not seen either of the two lads you talked about play so can't comment. What I would like is a midfielder or two to come in and hit the ground running, the same as Maguire will do, no bedding in, no getting use to the league, improving us from the off.

Whether Roca and the other lad would do that, not to sure.
 
StrettyEnder07 said:
Yep, which is something we have been very poor at doing. Not seen either of the two lads you talked about play so can't comment. What I would like is a midfielder or two to come in and hit the ground running, the same as Maguire will do, no bedding in, no getting use to the league, improving us from the off.

Whether Roca and the other lad would do that, not to sure.
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And being experienced in the EPL does not directly translate into being able to "hit the ground running" for a new club. One could buy a player from a team in Serie A playing the same "style" as you and he would most likely adapt faster compared to a player from a team in the EPL playing in a different "system". Thinking that since Maguire or Neves or another player plays in the same league then this translates directly into performing for a new team in the same league is not correct.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
And being experienced in the EPL does not directly translate into being able to "hit the ground running" for a new club. One could buy a player from a team in Serie A playing the same "style" as you and he would most likely adapt faster compared to a player from a team in the EPL playing in a different "system". Thinking that since Maguire or Neves or another player plays in the same league then this translates directly into performing for a new team in the same league is not correct.
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Jesus wept, sounds like you woke up just to disagree with anything said. You don't think that Maguire/Neves/Rice/Doucoure would not hit the ground running if they signed for us, good on you, I personally disagree and think they would.

If you disagree with me, I won't lose any sleep over it haha
 
StrettyEnder07 said:
Jesus wept, sounds like you woke up just to disagree with anything said. You don't think that Maguire/Neves/Rice/Doucoure would not hit the ground running if they signed for us, good on you, I personally disagree and think they would.

If you disagree with me, I won't lose any sleep over it haha
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I'm not disagreeing with you that they might hit the ground running, only that the sentiment about being "PL-proven" is not what is the most important factor when moving clubs and the new player's ability to adapt fast.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
I'm not disagreeing with you that they might hit the ground running, only that the sentiment about being "PL-proven" is not what is the most important factor when moving clubs and the new player's ability to adapt fast.
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Not saying it is the most important factor but 9 times out of 10 it helps an awful lot, Sanchez aside of course, no one seen that coming.
 
StrettyEnder07 said:
Not saying it is the most important factor but 9 times out of 10 it helps an awful lot, Sanchez aside of course, no one seen that coming.
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If I could choose between two identical players for the same fee, where one played in the EPL in a similar system to the other player for a team in La Liga or Bundesliga, I would definetively choose the EPL player.

Some Arsenal supporters thought his "out of form" was Sanchez started his decline. And i think that he was a Club and not manager transfer, and a thorough scouting process might have identified this.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
If I could choose between two identical players for the same fee, where one played in the EPL in a similar system to the other player for a team in La Liga or Bundesliga, I would definetively choose the EPL player.

Some Arsenal supporters thought his "out of form" was Sanchez started his decline. And i think that he was a Club and not manager transfer, and a thorough scouting process might have identified this.
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Yeah few people have said that, not sure what his stats were the season before we bought him.

Fingers crossed with this new pressing style of play Ole wants to play this year, he may well come good, fingers crossed!
 
McTom, Perreira and Fred.

These lads are going to have to make a real step up this season, or we're in for a world of pain.
 
if we were planning on buying a midfielder we'd have done it by now surely

not like there haven't been good options about is there
 
With Ole at the wheel, this is the best we will get. Selling Herrera and not replacing him will cost him he's job. They'll give him till Christmas.
 
Will Singh said:
With Ole at the wheel, this is the best we will get. Selling Herrera and not replacing him will cost him he's job. They'll give him till Christmas.
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We mustn't fall into the trap of overrating Herrera.
He must have been here about 5 years, and was only a regular for a few months here and there.

Short of what we needed if we're honest.
 
Sandikan said:
We mustn't fall into the trap of overrating Herrera.
He must have been here about 5 years, and was only a regular for a few months here and there.

Short of what we needed if we're honest.
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:lol: He had a season where his stats were comparable to Kante and Gueye as a ball winner and did he not win POTY for us that year.

By no means is he irreplaceable but the squad is worse for not having him and currently not having anyone who can do the things he was good at.
 
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If Pogba goes, then I think we could be in for Milinkovic-Savic, and Fernandes. I'm sure we have probably made inquiries about these two players (and probably half a dozen more), but there is a big difference between enquiring, and making a bid, even if the club's have more or less agreed on a price. These 'purchases' I would think would depend on the decision, and I would think well before the transfer deadline, as we don't want to leave ourselves high and dry with a late bid from another club.
 
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