It's never been about just top clubs/players playing more football even though that's an argument trotted out. League 1/2 clubs will play 50+ games a season and sometimes 60ish if they end up doing well in any respective competition.
Sudden burst of ACL injuries
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It's never been about just top clubs/players playing more football even though that's an argument trotted out. League 1/2 clubs will play 50+ games a season and sometimes 60ish if they end up doing well in any respective competition.
Feel for you mate. Just never the same again.
Sure. Which is equally absurd.
I was watching the highlights between France and Gibraltar. And I was thinking what is the point of the regulars (Mbappe, Griezmann etc) playing? I know fixtures have increased but some coaches also don't help their players. I remember in another international break also watching Portugal vs lichnestein and the score was 5-0 or something and then Martinez took Bruno out at the 90th minute.
Imagine Mbappe getting a serious injury at the 89th minute vs Gibraltar.
Imagine Mbappe getting a serious injury at the 89th minute vs Gibraltar.
Winter world cup won't have helped. Nor the extra long Covid season.
Teams pressing much more in the last 10 years,might excerpt more stress on the knees. Possibly generally running more as well.
Then there's other possible factors like Covid or the Vax. Until there's a big study that's just pure speculation.
Whatever the cause it's bad for the game, Real and Barca losing key players, as well as lots of EPL teams.
The competition becomes about keeping players fit and the spectacle suffers.
Teams pressing much more in the last 10 years,might excerpt more stress on the knees. Possibly generally running more as well.
Then there's other possible factors like Covid or the Vax. Until there's a big study that's just pure speculation.
Whatever the cause it's bad for the game, Real and Barca losing key players, as well as lots of EPL teams.
The competition becomes about keeping players fit and the spectacle suffers.
I bet many of the big egos would want to statpad against those minnows and coaches are too afraid to go against them.
it can easily be a coincidence at these numbers
I don’t think it has anything to do with more games. There are 25+ players in squads and 5 subs made in each game.
In the past, the same players played pretty much every game, 1 sub, there were more league games, cup replays and awful pitches.
The style of play has a lot more to do with it. No player only plays 1 position anymore, there’s little hoofing, all players are pressing, passing and turning more. This will likely have a much bigger impact.
In the past, the same players played pretty much every game, 1 sub, there were more league games, cup replays and awful pitches.
The style of play has a lot more to do with it. No player only plays 1 position anymore, there’s little hoofing, all players are pressing, passing and turning more. This will likely have a much bigger impact.
Yep same here. Had ACL Recon, one miniscus repair and one partially removed 5 months ago. Rehab is brutal and I hugely doubt I will ever even get to 75% of where I was before (I'm 34). Feel for these players that do it.
Cheers
Ah shit, sorry fella. I got lucky in that I didn't do any damage to my miniscuses, so it was "just" the ACL. Stick with rehab, do a million squats, RDL's and hamstring curls and hopefully you'll be reet!
Also 34. Tore ACL and LCL (as well as partial PCL and MCL tears) back in 2016. Just had my second knee surgery this year to fix the LCL which never healed and replace the now stretched out (bc no LCL) ACL cadaver ligament I had put in back in 2016. Knee never has and never will be the same. And the LCL+ACL surgery was so much worse than just ACL surgery in 2016 as the LCL isn’t arthroscopic.
It’s amazing that some of these athletes bounce back from these injuries (many don’t of course).
good luck with your recovery
I had a scope and ACL surgery. Rehabbing the second made ruined any desire I had to play professional sports. I had my surgery over 15 years ago and still experience soreness.
Yeah stat padding has become far too prominent, the aftermath of players growing up watching Ronaldo/Messi do the same. People will not look at individual matches and let's say Mbappé scores 6 goals in two games against Gibraltar at awards time and say 'he scored 43 in 42 games'... when if he hadn't played those two games it would be 37 in 40, which could be the difference stupidly enough.
It's the freaking turf.
Well yes true aha. Still part of the musculoskeletal system.also being a pedant, but your ACL isn't a muscle
I guess if we ignore ligaments and just looked at muscles, we’d be seeing an unprecedented amount of muscular injuries in the game if there was any link to covid.
It’s a bit of a catch 22 as it feels like a lot of these injuries could be avoided with players being given adequate rest, but there’s so much money and pressure in the game, most coaches aren’t going to risk not playing their best players all the time.
Gavi having 27 caps for Spain at 19 is utterly insane.
Gavi having 27 caps for Spain at 19 is utterly insane.
One thing I've noticed is that it doesn't just seem to be limited to football, it seems to be happening more and more in other sports too such as rugby and American football.
I wonder if it's more to do with players pushing themselves physically to their limits as much as anything?
I wonder if it's more to do with players pushing themselves physically to their limits as much as anything?
Yea, I remember a few years ago even, we saw like legit 2 week worth of pure vacation pics from our footballers - Luke Shaw at beach etc.. Just hanging about, doing stupid shit with friends etc. You barely see it anymore - not because they won't post it. Because I can't see where you see them plan a 2week+ vacation event - the summer tours in Asia/USA are insane how long they are and how much not football related shit is there. It should be like 3 weeks before seasons starts max to get the fitness up.
The NFL added two extra games a couple of years ago, which is more significant than it sounds.
I would say in alongside to the power output of elite level athletes and amount games being played, the footwear probably has a big part in it. All the sprint heels, ankle lock tech, stud patterns, etc. are built for maximum grip, which means you can put maximal force along different planes of movement, very quickly.
I would guess we probably don't condition well enough in single leg exercises or train in a way that prepares the ligaments for those sort of loads and aren't used to that amount of stress - maybe they never can be? Spit balling here, but I've had some knee issues (more patellar tendon) and when I strained my MCL (self diagnosed), I had to really focus on exercises that can help me load it gradually in the stressed positions.
Yamal will likely be the same. 16 and already has 4.
Bellingham has 27 for England at 20.
Has there been any mention of modern pitches being a factor? They seem to be better and better drained, with a higher and higher proportion of artificial fibres. So modern footballers don’t ever get to play on a soft, forgiving surface. It’s closer to astroturf than a conventional grass pitch. And astroturf has been quite strongly associated with knee injuries. When was the last time you saw a footballer with muddy kit?!?
I’ve recently started to worry about my son injuring his ACL given how much football he’s playing. He’s 11 years old but at times he’s playing 4 games a week with 3 training sessions - it’s an absurd amount of football and suspect lack of recovery time is a contributory factor to these injuries.
I’m not sure moving back and forth from 4G to grass helps either as it’s difficult to find firm ground boots that work on both.
I’m not sure moving back and forth from 4G to grass helps either as it’s difficult to find firm ground boots that work on both.
It won’t matter a jot to any of the governing bodies. They’ll still keep pushing for more and more games to be played. All they’re interested in is money, money and more money.
I wouldn't worry too much about the volume at that age, just make sure you tell him to never play through injury.
From a stud pattern perspective, you can't really get something that works proper soft ground and 4g, but the main thing is to make sure on 4g the firm ground boots don't have blade type stud patterns - conical studs are the best. There's some good YouTube videos if you search on boots to use on multi ground types.
Wow… one of those moments when you notice a thing that has been aparent for ages. Good point
They’re fairly bullet proof at that age. They’re fundamentally not able put enough force through muscles/ligaments to cause any damage. You’ll basically never see a 10 year old with a torn hamstring.
From puberty onwards you’ll need to be more careful. Heavier frame, more powerful muscles. Plus the collisions are much more intense. Zero rest days in a week does seem a bit mad. It’s also not great for their physical development to only train in only one sport and that timetable wouldn’t allow him do anything else.
@Pogue Mahone @Lash
That’s really helpful both thank you - sounds like I’m overthinking it which is a relief. I was close to pulling him out at least one team but will keep monitoring it for the moment.
He was at a cat 1 academy for three years but was released last year and he’s now ironically playing more football than when he was signed. I do think the amount of football kids play these days is ridiculous as he’s not the only one of his friends playing this much football. There are a few at one of his grassroots teams (the one I coach at) who like him play for two or three teams - no chance any of us did that when we were kids.
Plus there seems to be a lot more access to training and matches with professional clubs even outside the academy structure. When I was playing it seemed to be you were either signed or you weren’t, whereas now the vast majority of clubs have development squads and sometimes even teams even beyond that.
My hypothesis reading this thread and other things like it was that kids were playing too much nowadays and it was causing complications - as I say very relieved if it’s not something to worry about massively at this age.
Bit of an aside but I do think the trend towards more and more structured football is very interesting. I can only compare to myself but it does feel like a lot more kids take it seriously from a younger age. It might be why we’re seeing more talented players coming through nationally.
That’s really helpful both thank you - sounds like I’m overthinking it which is a relief. I was close to pulling him out at least one team but will keep monitoring it for the moment.
He was at a cat 1 academy for three years but was released last year and he’s now ironically playing more football than when he was signed. I do think the amount of football kids play these days is ridiculous as he’s not the only one of his friends playing this much football. There are a few at one of his grassroots teams (the one I coach at) who like him play for two or three teams - no chance any of us did that when we were kids.
Plus there seems to be a lot more access to training and matches with professional clubs even outside the academy structure. When I was playing it seemed to be you were either signed or you weren’t, whereas now the vast majority of clubs have development squads and sometimes even teams even beyond that.
My hypothesis reading this thread and other things like it was that kids were playing too much nowadays and it was causing complications - as I say very relieved if it’s not something to worry about massively at this age.
Bit of an aside but I do think the trend towards more and more structured football is very interesting. I can only compare to myself but it does feel like a lot more kids take it seriously from a younger age. It might be why we’re seeing more talented players coming through nationally.
Can’t remember who posted this earlier on in the thread but it’s a really smart initiative to help protect kids knees. I shared it with the coaches at my son’s club and they’ve integrated these sessions into their training schedules from U14 up.
https://poweruptoplay.org/
Cheers @Pogue Mahone
I saw this at the time and circulated it to all my parents. Agree it’s excellent.
I saw this at the time and circulated it to all my parents. Agree it’s excellent.
That's really cool to hear this is coming in at this age. I do a lot of that stuff in my workouts now as I'm a kneesovertoesguy convert and always had slithers of it in my workouts prior due to dabbling in yoga and weightlifting - wish I'd focussed on it sooner.
Oh yeah. I feel exactly the same. I popped my ACL 10 years ago and the only effort I ever made to strengthen the joint has all been after the fact. Way too late. It’s allowed me to still play sports despite rupturing the graft a year after surgery, so there’s that. But the hamstring they took the tendon from is permanently weak. Which sucks. I’d say all of this could have been avoided if I’d followed the routines my son is doing now. When I did my ACL there wasn’t even much force involved. Just a sudden turn.
Yeah, I've thankfully never had a serious knee injury like an ACL rupture, but had several close shaves with knee injuries - one was being hit by a car while running! I've played and trained through discomfort too many times (because I'm an idiot) and not built back up properly - until COVID and finally had the opportunity forced on me. Damage was probably already done though and have the same feeling of a permanent weakness, but just have to be careful not to take it too far now. Wisdom is a byproduct of living though!
The thing is if you already call them up and start them in these type of dead rubber games, there is no point in subbing them out early. I meant the players would play at their training mode. It's not that more demanding for these players at their level. IIRC, Pogba last France call up, he injured himself during the training session with them. There are players can sit out of NT call up, and still injured during training for the club such as Martial.
So the issue here is lack of break from football, than saving the players tens of minutes of playing time in lowest gear. The players themselves maybe the ones who want to play in this type of games to statpad their personal record, too. And new call up would love to play with the starter of the teams in hope of forming a great chemistry that ensure their future call up in the squad.
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The epidemic cannot be contained.
New research out suggesting that increased schedule combined with intensity of modern game is causing this.
I think that's the conclusion most of us would have come to.
In other news, FIFA are planning to expand the club world cup.
Yes, pressing in the modern game and the schedule. It's a combination of factors. Possibly diet and other things too.
Other sports haven't seen such a huge increase in acl, mcl etc so it's not just one external factor.
No surprise, increase it games means more stress and strain on the supporting muscles around the knee, as soon as they weaken, its up to the ligament to provide support.