Im afraid I will have to agree with Mr Gooner,in the overall context of the seasons performance,our fraities lay in the defence,and the midfields lack of confidence in it.I have never seen the defence so unsure and to be honest incompetent in the basic skills of defending.The midfield is fine,we need to get competent skillful athletic defenders for next season or else things will get worse ie a right back and a central defender
Stop this best midfield in world crap!!!!! Open your eyes...
- Thread starter ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC
- Start date
Err! It's not just Mr. Gooner that's said it, is it?
One thing's for sure, if I was an arse fan I wouldn't get carried away just yet. You never know but does anyone on here really think we'll lose 6 matches before xmas again?
One thing's for sure, if I was an arse fan I wouldn't get carried away just yet. You never know but does anyone on here really think we'll lose 6 matches before xmas again?
I watched MUTV before - wanna know what I saw?
RE: VERON
Keano was defending the foreign lads, saying we should judge them over 3 years not 1! Look at Pires now, he was quite poor last season. Clearly players SHOULD be judged and not defended blindlyp, but they do need a chance.
He also said that he WAS having a dig at the more established players. They been here long enough and they haven't done enough recently. This guy talks nothing but sense - he is DA MAN. I hope he becomes manager one day cos this guy has something special about him, you can see it in the way he walks.
Veron has had a bad year, but he will grow into his role if given the chance in that position next to Keane. We've been expecting the new Cantona when Veron plays a different position further back - alot less freedom and a totally different set of responsibilities.
RE: VERON
Keano was defending the foreign lads, saying we should judge them over 3 years not 1! Look at Pires now, he was quite poor last season. Clearly players SHOULD be judged and not defended blindlyp, but they do need a chance.
He also said that he WAS having a dig at the more established players. They been here long enough and they haven't done enough recently. This guy talks nothing but sense - he is DA MAN. I hope he becomes manager one day cos this guy has something special about him, you can see it in the way he walks.
Veron has had a bad year, but he will grow into his role if given the chance in that position next to Keane. We've been expecting the new Cantona when Veron plays a different position further back - alot less freedom and a totally different set of responsibilities.
At last some real debat on this bloody forum. Shoalin is absolutely right in most of the big games this season our midfield didn't turn up and things have definitely got to be shaken up for the future. We won the treble three seasons ago and at the time the giggs-scholes- keane- beckham midfield was the best. But times have changed and as Liverpool, Arsenal, Bayer and Bayern have all proved we need to freshen things up and Veron is only the beginning.
Who from your back five would feasably displace
anybody in the defence of Us Pool Chelsea and Leeds
------------------------------------------------
Possibly Gary Neville but can't think of anyone else. Let's not forget that we beat Chelsea 3-0 and Leeds 4-3 ( 4-1 up remember) both away. But these games were AFTER xmas and supports my point of the sloppy game before.
If you seriously think we'll lose 6 again before xmas, it's not just Wenger having an adrenolin rush. Do you seriously also think that our defence won't be added to over summer and, if so, only by some 3rd division reject? We lost 9 matches and you lost 3, but you still couldn't stamp your authority on the table during the vast majority of the season.
Don't forget you performed better than expected. We performed far worse and it was still in contention until @ 3 matches.
anybody in the defence of Us Pool Chelsea and Leeds
------------------------------------------------
Possibly Gary Neville but can't think of anyone else. Let's not forget that we beat Chelsea 3-0 and Leeds 4-3 ( 4-1 up remember) both away. But these games were AFTER xmas and supports my point of the sloppy game before.
If you seriously think we'll lose 6 again before xmas, it's not just Wenger having an adrenolin rush. Do you seriously also think that our defence won't be added to over summer and, if so, only by some 3rd division reject? We lost 9 matches and you lost 3, but you still couldn't stamp your authority on the table during the vast majority of the season.
Don't forget you performed better than expected. We performed far worse and it was still in contention until @ 3 matches.
The way our team plays this is how it is - ANY TEAM can beat us and we can beat ANY TEAM.
This includes lowly teams like Ipswitch and Man City. Cos at times this year we have made opponents look good by giving them space and letting them all look like Zidanes as they rush past. Of course some teams are still not good enough to take advantage.
Other times when our midfield turns on the heat we can breeze past anyone in the world, Deportivo springs to mind.
I like that new Addidas Ad with Beckham - Cometh the hour, cometh the man.
Well the hours been and gone and how many of our players could that line apply to? Try to keep it clean eh?
This includes lowly teams like Ipswitch and Man City. Cos at times this year we have made opponents look good by giving them space and letting them all look like Zidanes as they rush past. Of course some teams are still not good enough to take advantage.
Other times when our midfield turns on the heat we can breeze past anyone in the world, Deportivo springs to mind.
I like that new Addidas Ad with Beckham - Cometh the hour, cometh the man.
Well the hours been and gone and how many of our players could that line apply to? Try to keep it clean eh?
Originally posted by fjred:
<strong>Who from your back five would feasably displace
anybody in the defence of Us Pool Chelsea and Leeds
------------------------------------------------
Possibly Gary Neville but can't think of anyone else. Let's not forget that we beat Chelsea 3-0 and Leeds 4-3 ( 4-1 up remember) both away. But these games were AFTER xmas and supports my point of the sloppy game before.
If you seriously think we'll lose 6 again before xmas, it's not just Wenger having an adrenolin rush. Do you seriously also think that our defence won't be added to over summer and, if so, only by some 3rd division reject? We lost 9 matches and you lost 3, but you still couldn't stamp your authority on the table during the vast majority of the season.
Don't forget you performed better than expected. We performed far worse and it was still in contention until @ 3 matches.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You see fj here's one of the nitty gritty problems for ALL you lot . I'm not up for a fight here but you'r unwillingness to recognises you were not even second best is fecking irritating .
FACT - Don't dare mention that Chelsea away game mate. They had a cup final four days later and they ROLLED OVER Anyone with half a football brain can see that . DONT include that game as a valid kosher great performance - I could have cobbled together my local pub side and they'd have beaten Chesea then - BE REAL man .
you DID answer the w=question in the first line
maybe Neville but nobody else . There you've said it - you have confirmed your defence was poor enough that none of them them could challenge for a place at five other top clubs .
Now logically following on from that look no further as to why you finished THIRD .
"We lost 9 matches and you lost 3"
YES - LOOK at that mate - 18 points you're poor defence and weak management threw away . I'spose that's Wengers fault ?
", but you still couldn't stamp your authority on the table during the vast majority of the season."
Well mate what do you call the "vast majority " of the season ? 13 consecutive games on the bounce setting a new modern day record !! How much 'stamping of authority' do we have to do here
Is'pose on this one you can change it that's NOT Wneger's fault but our great run was caused by your poor defence !!!!!
<img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" /> <img src="graemlins/annoyed.gif" border="0" alt="[Annoyed]" />
Unbeaten AWAY - for the season - Yep you're right - More injuries suspensions than any other side too .
10 points difference
YEP YOU'R RIGHT AGAIN .
And before I vent my spleen here's another thing . In the fixture run-in from about Feb onwards we were playing catch up with you and Pool more or less two games in hand but behind apart from a brief moment in March I think .
I am of the opinion that had the games got levelled out and we got to April 7/8 points clear of you both - all games equal - we'gd have run away with it . It's likely you'd have finishe 12 points behind.
I must check out the new Manchester version of the dictionary about the words
ACCEPTANCE
GRACEFULLY
Gooner - you're right we were poor, the poorest season we have had since we first won the Premiership. BUT we still managed to hang in until the 2nd to last game.
I'm sure that says SOMETHING.
Arsenal were deserving champions, I loved their football. Unlike Liverpool. Congratulations.
But I think next year will be different, I see Houllier making all the right moves in the transfer market. He is systematically erasing all his teams weaknesses - defence, keeper, over reliance on Owen, width etc. Its as if he was playing Championship Manager how easy he makes it look to plug a gap.
His team are gonna be invincible if Man Utd and Arsenal dont do something amazing.
I'm sure that says SOMETHING.
Arsenal were deserving champions, I loved their football. Unlike Liverpool. Congratulations.
But I think next year will be different, I see Houllier making all the right moves in the transfer market. He is systematically erasing all his teams weaknesses - defence, keeper, over reliance on Owen, width etc. Its as if he was playing Championship Manager how easy he makes it look to plug a gap.
His team are gonna be invincible if Man Utd and Arsenal dont do something amazing.
Our defence is poor. But isn't this thread about the midfield?
I wouldn't swap the midfield because imo they are the best.
That isn't ungracious I hope. There have been several members of this forum who congratulated Arsenal, so don't just hit on a few comments and choose to forget all the positive things that were said about Arsenal.
I'm sure there were a lot of Arsenal fans who felt their team was better than United over the past few years. It's called supporting your team - some do it better than others, some do it in different ways. But you will find exactly the same kind of attitudes everywhere.
I wouldn't swap the midfield because imo they are the best.
That isn't ungracious I hope. There have been several members of this forum who congratulated Arsenal, so don't just hit on a few comments and choose to forget all the positive things that were said about Arsenal.
I'm sure there were a lot of Arsenal fans who felt their team was better than United over the past few years. It's called supporting your team - some do it better than others, some do it in different ways. But you will find exactly the same kind of attitudes everywhere.
Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>I wouldn't swap the midfield because imo they are the best.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Agreed. On form they can not be matched.
10 points difference
-----------------------------------------------
Just what are you talking about? It finished 10 pts. but up until we played you it was still, theoretically, in contention. Given that you only lost 3 matches, were unbeaten away and we lost NINE matches you simply didn't stamp your authority did you? That doesn't support Wenger's theory of 'balance of power' does it? Neither does your comparitive record of the past 10 years. I also think Chelsea would prefer a CL place to winning the FA cup not to mention your point was what I said last year relating to the L/pool defeat 4 days before the first leg against Bayern and wan't accepted even by some of our naive supporters on 'ere.
I've got no problem with Arsenal at all. We have similar club problems and you've been there or thereabouts all the time. Respect is due. I've got a lot more problems with the mouthy pretenders elsewhere.
However, lets not get carried away! Can you really see us not getting some decent defenders and losing 6 matches before xmas again? I don't think either and so do most knowledgeable pundits, Do you?
As for the St. Houllier comments above, keep takin' the tablets!
-----------------------------------------------
Just what are you talking about? It finished 10 pts. but up until we played you it was still, theoretically, in contention. Given that you only lost 3 matches, were unbeaten away and we lost NINE matches you simply didn't stamp your authority did you? That doesn't support Wenger's theory of 'balance of power' does it? Neither does your comparitive record of the past 10 years. I also think Chelsea would prefer a CL place to winning the FA cup not to mention your point was what I said last year relating to the L/pool defeat 4 days before the first leg against Bayern and wan't accepted even by some of our naive supporters on 'ere.
I've got no problem with Arsenal at all. We have similar club problems and you've been there or thereabouts all the time. Respect is due. I've got a lot more problems with the mouthy pretenders elsewhere.
However, lets not get carried away! Can you really see us not getting some decent defenders and losing 6 matches before xmas again? I don't think either and so do most knowledgeable pundits, Do you?
As for the St. Houllier comments above, keep takin' the tablets!
No matter how I can see the competition of next season can only be hotter. Neither Houllier nor Wengar will stand still in this summer, they will continue to improve their teams and they can only become better in next season. Therefore we must also improve hugely. Not only in buying players, but also in the mentality aspect. I'm sure the century of "winning the league before Easter" has gone. Our old players must stop their complacency and arrogance, and return to their mentality and fighting spirit to the level in 1999 or before. Only then do we have the chance to get back the league title next season.
We need to focus on improving our weaknesses and not worry about what the opposition does in the summer.
Werent we linked to all the big names last summer (defenders) Hofland, Thuram, Nesta etc....
What makes any of you think that we will get decent cover this summer.....
When Blanc signed for us last summer - he had been told he was to be playing with Stam... And look what happened!
As United fans - you all need to get it into your heads that - we have no divine right to sign big players just because we are Manchester United. We would all play for them because we support them- but Hofland et al dont!!!
Houllier and Wenger have slowly tightened the noose around fergies neck - they to have turned there respective clubs around and now Arse and Liverpool are JUST AS desirable clubs for big star names as we are!
Remember the Cisse saga last summer - Raoul was banging on about what an excellent signing hed be, he was right - Fergie tried to get him and look where hes likely to end up....
This isnt Championship Manager chaps and chapesses... its not fantasy!!!
Id be over the moon if we sign Thuram or Hofland or Nesta etc.... but we tried last year when we were the ONLY team in England...... now there are at least 2 more teams in England!!!
Put yourself in a neautrals shoes - what has Manchester got that Madrid or Rome hasnt - (smog).
If I was a neutral - I know where id rather play!!
And theres nothing wrong with our midfield - give Veron time, it worked for Pires.
What makes any of you think that we will get decent cover this summer.....
When Blanc signed for us last summer - he had been told he was to be playing with Stam... And look what happened!
As United fans - you all need to get it into your heads that - we have no divine right to sign big players just because we are Manchester United. We would all play for them because we support them- but Hofland et al dont!!!
Houllier and Wenger have slowly tightened the noose around fergies neck - they to have turned there respective clubs around and now Arse and Liverpool are JUST AS desirable clubs for big star names as we are!
Remember the Cisse saga last summer - Raoul was banging on about what an excellent signing hed be, he was right - Fergie tried to get him and look where hes likely to end up....
This isnt Championship Manager chaps and chapesses... its not fantasy!!!
Id be over the moon if we sign Thuram or Hofland or Nesta etc.... but we tried last year when we were the ONLY team in England...... now there are at least 2 more teams in England!!!
Put yourself in a neautrals shoes - what has Manchester got that Madrid or Rome hasnt - (smog).
If I was a neutral - I know where id rather play!!
And theres nothing wrong with our midfield - give Veron time, it worked for Pires.
What has l/pool got that Madrid and Rome havn't? certainly worse than Manchester! Lets also not forget that we got Stam, RVN (Arsenal tried, remember) and Veron. There are some cases where it applies that they would prefer to go to the sun but not always!
The problem with Thuram was the money wasn't it? Rumours are it's not the case any more! Wasn't there this shit about PSV and UTD signing a pre contract agreement over Hofland? Prefer Ayala anyway!
The problem with Thuram was the money wasn't it? Rumours are it's not the case any more! Wasn't there this shit about PSV and UTD signing a pre contract agreement over Hofland? Prefer Ayala anyway!
There has also been talk of Hofland going to Arse with Van Bommel - alegidly both seen there!
Lets face it - most of the French players are gonna go somewhere with a French manager - Does Cisse honestly believe Liverpool are superior to United or is he going because of Houlliers influence....
And before you say - Mickey turned down pool for us - they were an average team then!!
And out of all the top teams - who wanted Veron???
He wanted out of Italy cos of the passport fiasco, madrid had zidane?
Did anyone actually put a bid in for him other than us?
I think its funny that you all assume we will get all these top players - when why should they choose OT over Anfield,Highbury or abroad?
Lets face it - most of the French players are gonna go somewhere with a French manager - Does Cisse honestly believe Liverpool are superior to United or is he going because of Houlliers influence....
And before you say - Mickey turned down pool for us - they were an average team then!!
And out of all the top teams - who wanted Veron???
He wanted out of Italy cos of the passport fiasco, madrid had zidane?
Did anyone actually put a bid in for him other than us?
I think its funny that you all assume we will get all these top players - when why should they choose OT over Anfield,Highbury or abroad?
Didn't Inter want Veron and bid for him? Didn't Arse bid for RVN? How come we got Barthez? Why should someone prefer L/pool to us? When has anyone ever chosen them over us? The place is a f'kin dive! I live in London and it sure aint Rome or Madrid. The way you lot talk we'd be lucky to get a 3rd. div. player.
Has it ever dawned that players (agents) create auctions to up the ante? particularly so when they mention they might go to your arch enemies! Lets wait and see eh?
We' ve still got a great midfield - one of the best - which will show itself again when it doesn't have to shore up the defence for most of the match!
Has it ever dawned that players (agents) create auctions to up the ante? particularly so when they mention they might go to your arch enemies! Lets wait and see eh?
We' ve still got a great midfield - one of the best - which will show itself again when it doesn't have to shore up the defence for most of the match!
I feel that Arsenal will sign one or two decent players in the summer, Wenger is shrewd when it comes to purchases. He also has a lot of players coming back from injury, these will be like new signings, so they are going to be hard to beat.
Wenger has a knack of buying players, fitting them into his system, and inproving them as players. He can spot potential in so called average players and he brings them on. Wenger must have surrounded himself with top notch coaches, fitness coaches and scouts. SAF has his family members doing some of these roles? Are they as effective as they could be?
Manchester United had a good system that worked for 10 years in the midfield. Two wide men with pace who can cross a ball Kanchelskis, Sharpe, Gillespie, Blomquist, Giggs etc... Then we have two hard men ball winners in the middle, Robson, Butt, Keane, Ince etc.... Now where does Veron fit into this, simply put he doesn't. There is no doubting that he is a world class player in a system that fits him, but does our system fit him, I feel not. I predict that he will be the player of the World Cup, and could very possibly lift the WC at the end of the tournament.
I can uderstand why Fergie bought him, but you feel that Wenger would not have made the same mistakes?
Wenger has a knack of buying players, fitting them into his system, and inproving them as players. He can spot potential in so called average players and he brings them on. Wenger must have surrounded himself with top notch coaches, fitness coaches and scouts. SAF has his family members doing some of these roles? Are they as effective as they could be?
Manchester United had a good system that worked for 10 years in the midfield. Two wide men with pace who can cross a ball Kanchelskis, Sharpe, Gillespie, Blomquist, Giggs etc... Then we have two hard men ball winners in the middle, Robson, Butt, Keane, Ince etc.... Now where does Veron fit into this, simply put he doesn't. There is no doubting that he is a world class player in a system that fits him, but does our system fit him, I feel not. I predict that he will be the player of the World Cup, and could very possibly lift the WC at the end of the tournament.
I can uderstand why Fergie bought him, but you feel that Wenger would not have made the same mistakes?
Hornchurc -h I do sympathise with you all about Veron .
He is a world class player .
ACtually Wenger would not have to do much in our current system .
He would fit beautifully in as Veiira has no pretensions to get forward as Roy K does . THIS is the crux of the Veron midfield problem . Two titans going at it .
Vieira as a personality is very diferent from Keane , less dominant vocally and forcably although as physically strongly present as the Irishman .
Roy Keane IS the captain and has to rule , he is not content to allow Veron the responsiblity to create everything .
This of course is THE problem . If Veron was at the Arse he would succeed massively because of the different vibe in the side. Any dominance comes from the back from Adams and now Sol and Keown even Ash Cole . This would allow Veron his own space further forward to create .
It's nobody's fault just the way the personality / chemistry works in people .
Personally I am not that worried we do not have a Veron because I think we have potentially his equal in the budding Edu . His long ball game is tremendous his control tight his his economy of passing is brilliant hardly ever giving the ball away and you may have noticed on 8th he's as hard as nails ! too . That is where I think Veron is weak . You CAN get on top of him as a player , he needs a Keane Vieira alongside (just behind ) him .
But now maybe with the hard mental presence of Roy .
He is a world class player .
ACtually Wenger would not have to do much in our current system .
He would fit beautifully in as Veiira has no pretensions to get forward as Roy K does . THIS is the crux of the Veron midfield problem . Two titans going at it .
Vieira as a personality is very diferent from Keane , less dominant vocally and forcably although as physically strongly present as the Irishman .
Roy Keane IS the captain and has to rule , he is not content to allow Veron the responsiblity to create everything .
This of course is THE problem . If Veron was at the Arse he would succeed massively because of the different vibe in the side. Any dominance comes from the back from Adams and now Sol and Keown even Ash Cole . This would allow Veron his own space further forward to create .
It's nobody's fault just the way the personality / chemistry works in people .
Personally I am not that worried we do not have a Veron because I think we have potentially his equal in the budding Edu . His long ball game is tremendous his control tight his his economy of passing is brilliant hardly ever giving the ball away and you may have noticed on 8th he's as hard as nails ! too . That is where I think Veron is weak . You CAN get on top of him as a player , he needs a Keane Vieira alongside (just behind ) him .
But now maybe with the hard mental presence of Roy .
I am cliinging to the memory of three or four early season games [after the first couple of draws] when Seba was still confident. Once he had threee or four games under his belt, he and Keano looke unstopable. Even rival team supporters at work commented on how good the pairing looked and what a bright season ahead united had. As we know that did not happen and most of the reasons have been discussed. We can see know that a lot of people in english soccer are indicating Seba will shine in the world cup. He can bring this back to united next season. Imagine the two of them [Seba & Keano] in the midfield after BOTH having great WC's. I for one lament our poor season [by our own high standards] these things happen, I look forward to next season. the addition of one or two players is inevitable but I would not get too carried aaway. these players have a lot of pride and will work 150% harder next year. thins back to the last time utd came runners up, the following season was up to our usual standard.
Add 1 quality CB, Back up Giggs with Damien Duf and we'll see a recovery.
We'll see how well the gooners deal with defending the title against a hungry UTD!!!
Add 1 quality CB, Back up Giggs with Damien Duf and we'll see a recovery.
We'll see how well the gooners deal with defending the title against a hungry UTD!!!
It will be great but I think you'll find prising the PL title back a very different proposition to 99 .
Agree about Houllier , he's been very good at repairing parts of his side quietly and clamly .
I still feel they will not progress untill they have a guaranteed creative player playing week in week out . The Littmeanan's of theis world are luxuries but you won't get really close to big title unless you can accomodate them into the side .
Anelka will be a problem - be sure of it .
They may get one great season out of him but it's debateable .
Also Carragher and Murphy are NOT the class and Gerrard apart from injuries is very inconsistant in the BIG games imo . He's far from the finished article .
My biggest fears are
1 that Fergy gets his head straight tactically and managerially and
2 gets in another Stam
Personally I think even if 2 happened , 1 is over
anyways .
Should be a cracking season that's for sure .
World Cup recovery may also come into it too . Historically successful world cups team players have gone on to have mediocre seasons .
Here's to France not making the 2 stage !!
Some hope !
Agree about Houllier , he's been very good at repairing parts of his side quietly and clamly .
I still feel they will not progress untill they have a guaranteed creative player playing week in week out . The Littmeanan's of theis world are luxuries but you won't get really close to big title unless you can accomodate them into the side .
Anelka will be a problem - be sure of it .
They may get one great season out of him but it's debateable .
Also Carragher and Murphy are NOT the class and Gerrard apart from injuries is very inconsistant in the BIG games imo . He's far from the finished article .
My biggest fears are
1 that Fergy gets his head straight tactically and managerially and
2 gets in another Stam
Personally I think even if 2 happened , 1 is over
anyways .
Should be a cracking season that's for sure .
World Cup recovery may also come into it too . Historically successful world cups team players have gone on to have mediocre seasons .
Here's to France not making the 2 stage !!
Some hope !
I would be much happier if Fergie had a No2 of the quality of McClaren. He has relied on a coach for a long time and at the moment he has yes men around him. I was hoping that Boro would go down so that we might get McClaren back.
BTW Jopub how do you think you will cope if a) Viera does go to Real (or wherever) and b) age, injury, retirement etc changes your defense significantly.
I'm not saying you will fall apart but if I were an Arsenal fan (perish the thought ) I would be very concerned if say Adams and Viera weren't there next year.
BTW Jopub how do you think you will cope if a) Viera does go to Real (or wherever) and b) age, injury, retirement etc changes your defense significantly.
I'm not saying you will fall apart but if I were an Arsenal fan (perish the thought
) I would be very concerned if say Adams and Viera weren't there next year.Originally posted by ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC:
<strong>Too many idiots are blaming the defence for our lack of silverware </strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
How stupid can people get
Afternoon Wibbs
The Vieira situation is very interesting .
There has been a fallacy regarding his form and value to us this season .
He as been very poor compared to previous years a drop off in form of about 30% I'd say . ( That's a large drop in standard for a world class player )
There was more than one occasion when Wenger could have justifiable dropped him . In Oct / Nove his whole mind, body language , was somewher else .
The shannanigans he got up to last close season regarding Marc Roger his agent touting him around Europe as available for 25 million was so so dissapointing . Of all the players we would not have imagined him behaving in this way .
There's nothing wrong with wanting to play at the top of your profession for as much money as you can get . But his lack of honesty in the whole sorry business took him down in the estimation of the majority of Arsenal fans .
I also personally believe the loss of the cup final to Pool really hit him hard .
Understandable he was shocked that
a he could personally play so brilliantly
b that the team could dominate so awesomely
AND LOSE .
Face it for him it's been runners up three times in the PL the EUFA CUp and the FA . Zidane in his lughole at internationals giving it the big gee up so yeah the boy was unhappy .
I think that as resulted in this last season .
Myself I always felt as long as he hits form in the last 6 weeks of the season we'll get through victoriously . His form imroved from end of March onwards . When Pires got injured Paddy came through in the games that had to be fought for more than the free flowing football that swept all before .
Fortunatley and more importantly IMO Parlour got back from imjury and Edu with games under his belt got on the pace and got stronger and stronger . This helped Vieira greatly - Our midfield now has a strength about it not there before not since Petit ( on top form only ).
We also got some brillaint results WITHOUT Vieira ( Liverpool away ) which also showed us we do win without him ( Similarly applies to Keane although he's more important to you I feel ) .
Vieira as a player is actually quite weak in some areas - his use of the ball is often abysmally poor - his negativity having won it often cause many a great move to break down as he looks for a sidewards pass when Henry and Pires or Wiltord are up and away .
His negativity at getting forward enough to score .
On the positive side as a ball winner he's unmatched and his protection of the defence is legendary .
It's a great job this 'holding job' and one that leaves you looking very goood as you're not operating in areas of the field where the opposition clamp down on you and for my money I want him doing more as he has the pwer to get forward and creat great options when moving at pace twenty yards futher forward .
That Vieira seems to have gone .
We would miss him but if you'd have asked me that this time last year it would have been unthinkable but now we'd still cope and be very strong too . Believe Edu is as hard as nails and a quality passer of the ball and can finish as well .
For me , he is the future , he will be the man
I'd like Vieira to stay , lets face it, he'd be a fool not to now , he loves London , we have met his 'winning ' demands and I also sense that Real Madrid are not as strong as people say . I think Zidane 's is looking for an easier life and would get it if Vieira played behind him .
Right this second and I'm gutted we did not get through but I'd fancy us against Real right now .
I think they will decline .
Defence wise Sol is here and will become the collosus as Tone goes . This 2nd position is definitely up for grabs Keown is 35 and Upson although quality , is just tooo nice . I always wanted Rio alongside Sol but that's not goona happen so I think we may have to go shopping there .
Saying that I do believe that Sol and Rio have NOT been convincing together in England shirts - We'll soon find out !!)
Stam ? that would be taking the piss a bit I think
Good to talk
The Vieira situation is very interesting .
There has been a fallacy regarding his form and value to us this season .
He as been very poor compared to previous years a drop off in form of about 30% I'd say . ( That's a large drop in standard for a world class player )
There was more than one occasion when Wenger could have justifiable dropped him . In Oct / Nove his whole mind, body language , was somewher else .
The shannanigans he got up to last close season regarding Marc Roger his agent touting him around Europe as available for 25 million was so so dissapointing . Of all the players we would not have imagined him behaving in this way .
There's nothing wrong with wanting to play at the top of your profession for as much money as you can get . But his lack of honesty in the whole sorry business took him down in the estimation of the majority of Arsenal fans .
I also personally believe the loss of the cup final to Pool really hit him hard .
Understandable he was shocked that
a he could personally play so brilliantly
b that the team could dominate so awesomely
AND LOSE .
Face it for him it's been runners up three times in the PL the EUFA CUp and the FA . Zidane in his lughole at internationals giving it the big gee up so yeah the boy was unhappy .
I think that as resulted in this last season .
Myself I always felt as long as he hits form in the last 6 weeks of the season we'll get through victoriously . His form imroved from end of March onwards . When Pires got injured Paddy came through in the games that had to be fought for more than the free flowing football that swept all before .
Fortunatley and more importantly IMO Parlour got back from imjury and Edu with games under his belt got on the pace and got stronger and stronger . This helped Vieira greatly - Our midfield now has a strength about it not there before not since Petit ( on top form only ).
We also got some brillaint results WITHOUT Vieira ( Liverpool away ) which also showed us we do win without him ( Similarly applies to Keane although he's more important to you I feel ) .
Vieira as a player is actually quite weak in some areas - his use of the ball is often abysmally poor - his negativity having won it often cause many a great move to break down as he looks for a sidewards pass when Henry and Pires or Wiltord are up and away .
His negativity at getting forward enough to score .
On the positive side as a ball winner he's unmatched and his protection of the defence is legendary .
It's a great job this 'holding job' and one that leaves you looking very goood as you're not operating in areas of the field where the opposition clamp down on you and for my money I want him doing more as he has the pwer to get forward and creat great options when moving at pace twenty yards futher forward .
That Vieira seems to have gone .
We would miss him but if you'd have asked me that this time last year it would have been unthinkable but now we'd still cope and be very strong too . Believe Edu is as hard as nails and a quality passer of the ball and can finish as well .
For me , he is the future , he will be the man
I'd like Vieira to stay , lets face it, he'd be a fool not to now , he loves London , we have met his 'winning ' demands and I also sense that Real Madrid are not as strong as people say . I think Zidane 's is looking for an easier life and would get it if Vieira played behind him .
Right this second and I'm gutted we did not get through but I'd fancy us against Real right now .
I think they will decline .
Defence wise Sol is here and will become the collosus as Tone goes . This 2nd position is definitely up for grabs Keown is 35 and Upson although quality , is just tooo nice . I always wanted Rio alongside Sol but that's not goona happen so I think we may have to go shopping there .
Saying that I do believe that Sol and Rio have NOT been convincing together in England shirts - We'll soon find out !!)
Stam ? that would be taking the piss a bit I think
Good to talk
You are welcome to Stam, although replacing Adams with another donkey might be good for us
And I think next season will be even more interesting than this one. We can't afford another poor season, your lot need to consolidate and improve if you aren't to be dismissed as a team that can rise to the occasion in England a couple of times a decade and Liverpool need to improve full stop. They can get away with being close in the PL this year but they (hopefully) won't have the excuse of a sick manager next year. Another year without a major trophy and they will be living on the memory of winning all those secondary trophys (OK and the FA cup) last year. CL will be very important as a yardstick for all concerned.
And I think next season will be even more interesting than this one. We can't afford another poor season, your lot need to consolidate and improve if you aren't to be dismissed as a team that can rise to the occasion in England a couple of times a decade and Liverpool need to improve full stop. They can get away with being close in the PL this year but they (hopefully) won't have the excuse of a sick manager next year. Another year without a major trophy and they will be living on the memory of winning all those secondary trophys (OK and the FA cup) last year. CL will be very important as a yardstick for all concerned.
Originally posted by Wibble:
<strong>You are welcome to Stam, although replacing Adams with another donkey might be good for us
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Dont know how you can say that mate!!!
Id have Stam back at the drop of a hat!
Stam at 50% of what he was is better than Blanc is now!
Well, propably u'r right, becouse third place it's not the best place for us.......
We have got graet, really graet footballers, and you cando nothng just blaming them... WE MUST STICK TOGETHER AND BELIVE THAT NEXT YEAR WILL E BETTER.
se ya
We have got graet, really graet footballers, and you cando nothng just blaming them... WE MUST STICK TOGETHER AND BELIVE THAT NEXT YEAR WILL E BETTER.
se ya
I agree that Vieira has been living on past reputation this season, I feel he has become complacent, and has played poorly for the majority of last season. Arsenal have an embarrassment of riches in midfield. I feel that Arsenals weakness is the defence, Campbell is looking good, but Cole is injury prone, Adams is past it, Upson not up to it, Lauren is never a right back, Luzenberg (sp??) is not up to it either, Arsenal need to invest in at the back. I feel it could be good for Arsenal to get rid of Vieira at the moment, because he must have caused considerable unrest at the club, with his will I, won’t I leave. Arsenal could get a kings ransom for him, and with Wengers undoubtedly handy knack of spotting talent, they could get someone in to fill his role at a fraction of the price.
I feel that Manchester United have gone backwards in the last couple of years, the defence is missing Schmichel, the defence is also not settled, players are not set in positions, we need a solid back four, who play together week in, week out and can form a bond at the back, with Keane and Butt in front, we will give anyone a run for the title.
I feel that Manchester United have gone backwards in the last couple of years, the defence is missing Schmichel, the defence is also not settled, players are not set in positions, we need a solid back four, who play together week in, week out and can form a bond at the back, with Keane and Butt in front, we will give anyone a run for the title.
Man Utd have good pulling power, but until recently England has not.
Rivaldo has a list of a few clubs that Barca can sell him to in his contract. Man Utd are amongst those.
In an interview done many years ago, Veron said that he dreams of playing for the big European clubs like Juve, Real and Man Utd - the clubs who have MADE football history, but he never knows if it will happen. Guess it has!
So players DO like the club, we have a great reputation. Its just that we dont go for these players aggressively enough and theres a danger that our current crop will NEVER be dislodged as the first choice whilst they are fit enough.
Besides, many of these good players are mercenaries and they know they wont have it their way here. Veron is not a mercenary.
Rivaldo has a list of a few clubs that Barca can sell him to in his contract. Man Utd are amongst those.
In an interview done many years ago, Veron said that he dreams of playing for the big European clubs like Juve, Real and Man Utd - the clubs who have MADE football history, but he never knows if it will happen. Guess it has!
So players DO like the club, we have a great reputation. Its just that we dont go for these players aggressively enough and theres a danger that our current crop will NEVER be dislodged as the first choice whilst they are fit enough.
Besides, many of these good players are mercenaries and they know they wont have it their way here. Veron is not a mercenary.