Still 4-5-1 next season!
- Thread starter uranushk1
- Start date
Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>I've always liked this idea, which is a 4-5-1 pivoting around Butt. Think of it like an inverted V, that flaps like a birds wings as we need to attack and defend.
--------------------- Barthez --------------------
--------------- Rio ----------- Blanc ------------
--- G Nev -------------------------- Silvestre ---
----------------------- Butt ---------------------
------------- Keane ------------ Verón -----------
--- Beckham ---------------------------- Giggs ---
----------------------- RVN ----------------------
In any situation when either Keane or Verón move out of position to join RVN in attack, Butt moves into cover their position and thus keep things tight.
SAF has never tried it though, so I'm probably talking bollocks.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sort of a FLYING V
You didnt come up with this watching that disney movie, The mighty ducks, did you?
We might be better off with Butt next to Keane in CM. We would be short an AM but at least our defense would be better off and i dont think we would have trouble scoring goals.
I just feel Butt deserves his starting place now. He had a fantastic season and an even better world cup.
I just feel Butt deserves his starting place now. He had a fantastic season and an even better world cup.
Originally posted by DJH:
<strong>
Sort of a FLYING V
You didnt come up with this watching that disney movie, The mighty ducks, did you?
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> An "Inverted V"
And yes, I agree about Butt, that's why I put him at the very centre of the "flapping V"
Agreed.
So its the MANCHESTER UNITED "INVERTED" FLYING V.
So its the MANCHESTER UNITED "INVERTED" FLYING V.
Yeah, FANTASTIC! <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
We at our best playng 4-5-1 imo. The way we taught both Chelsea and Deportivo footballing lessons with that system is testament to that. What we lacked last season was the hunger, the defending, plus the collective form to apply the movement required for that system to work best. And we also lacked some one who played in the hole with skill, pace and vison without wasting chances.
This season by buying Rio we have solved our defensive short commimngs. Our hunger will be back after our trophyless season and as long as our players start the season in flying form (Namely Barthez, Becks,, Veron, Scholes, Silvetrs who flopped earlier own last season), with Forlan doing the job in the hole people will see how aewsome our Red Machine can become. we haven't seen the best of it yet
This season by buying Rio we have solved our defensive short commimngs. Our hunger will be back after our trophyless season and as long as our players start the season in flying form (Namely Barthez, Becks,, Veron, Scholes, Silvetrs who flopped earlier own last season), with Forlan doing the job in the hole people will see how aewsome our Red Machine can become. we haven't seen the best of it yet
I think our team should turn to 3 - 5 - 2 once Rio is inform, with keane or veron or butt act as defensive midfielder. As we seen the two finalist in world cup 2002 (german & brazil) played 3 - 5 -2, the 5 midfielders can always giving role in when defence and attacks. I believe MU can do that since we have the most powerful players to form in midfield.
Hi everyone, I'm from HK and this is my first post on this forum ....
Let me first ask a question: what really is the difference between the formations?
My understanding is:
4-4-2: when we play 2 strikers (like RVN + Ole). IMO this is the most rigid (and preditable) system and relies a lot on the 2 wingers to put in crosses.
4-5-1: when we play 3 center mid-fielders (ie. scholes + Veron + Keanno). We could have the best control in the MF but it's difficult to create chances against defensive teams like boringpool as we simply don't have enough bodies up front.
4-4-1-1: when we have a link-man who operates in between the opponent's DF and MF. He needs to have excellent touch, accurate passes, dribbling skills and a good finish. He should be able to draw defenders and cause confusion between opponent's MF/DF and hence free up space for our Wingers/MFs. I think this is most flexible and powerful but it requires most from the players (especially the link man).
IMO back in 99 Yorke WAS an ideal candidate for this position (and what we're playing was more like a 4-4-1-1 to me). Our offense was not as fluent since he lost form and there has not been a perfect replacement since then (Sheri was OK but he lacks pace while Giggs got it most but without a good finish).
I agree with some of you that Forlan has the potential to be the link man but Di Canio looks more promising to me ...
Fergie GET HIM PLEASE <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
Let me first ask a question: what really is the difference between the formations?
My understanding is:
4-4-2: when we play 2 strikers (like RVN + Ole). IMO this is the most rigid (and preditable) system and relies a lot on the 2 wingers to put in crosses.
4-5-1: when we play 3 center mid-fielders (ie. scholes + Veron + Keanno). We could have the best control in the MF but it's difficult to create chances against defensive teams like boringpool as we simply don't have enough bodies up front.
4-4-1-1: when we have a link-man who operates in between the opponent's DF and MF. He needs to have excellent touch, accurate passes, dribbling skills and a good finish. He should be able to draw defenders and cause confusion between opponent's MF/DF and hence free up space for our Wingers/MFs. I think this is most flexible and powerful but it requires most from the players (especially the link man).
IMO back in 99 Yorke WAS an ideal candidate for this position (and what we're playing was more like a 4-4-1-1 to me). Our offense was not as fluent since he lost form and there has not been a perfect replacement since then (Sheri was OK but he lacks pace while Giggs got it most but without a good finish).
I agree with some of you that Forlan has the potential to be the link man but Di Canio looks more promising to me ...
Fergie GET HIM PLEASE <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
Great to see yorkie's reputation back on the rise now he's been sold, but i agree entirely ! In 1999 he was able to move from an offensive midfield position in 4-4-1-1 into a full blown forward in 4-4-2. Somehow Scholes last season seemed caught between two roles and retreated into too withdrawn a position. Whereas Yorke and Sheringham were able to operate naturally in the hole, Scholesy struggled to find the right place on the field to be effective.
I still think that this had a lot to do with early season confidence and a dip in form for a player who did everthing right for 6 seasons before that, and wouldn't be surprised to see him start the season with a series of early goals from midfield. In terms of strength of the squad though, Di Canio would give us options and a maverick quality we seemed to lack last season.
I still think that this had a lot to do with early season confidence and a dip in form for a player who did everthing right for 6 seasons before that, and wouldn't be surprised to see him start the season with a series of early goals from midfield. In terms of strength of the squad though, Di Canio would give us options and a maverick quality we seemed to lack last season.
I actually think 4-4-2 can work really well this season withh ferdinand in. last season 4-4-2 was crap because we didn't have enough quality defenders so we let in lots of goals. but now that we have ferdinand we have a quality back four. the only problem is that we have to choose between veron, scholesey, and butt which is going to be difficult. I also think 4-5-1 is a good formation but i think 4-4-2 is better
The away performances against Bayern and Deportivo were United's best European performances in three years IMO. And they were 4-5-1. Lets face the facts.........
'99 We won the Champion's League playing blistering attacking football against teams that simply couldn't handle a midfield quartet at the top of their game and Dwight Yorke approaching world player of year status IMO. We enjoyed a bit of luck on the way mind and tactically the 4-4-2 formation was beginning to become predictable as Bayern almost proved in the final.
'00 Not a great campaign in Europe. Very little tactical diversity as we stuck to our traditional 4-4-2 and eventually was shown up by our away performance at the Bernabau and finally back home against Real. The closest we came to anything approaching a new tactic was playing an defensive 4-4-1 away to Real. We created little in that game and simply didn't look like European champions as we never threatened to get an away goal. Questions should have been asked from that night on.
'01 Again we didn't really set Europe on fire this campaign and it was beginning to become clear that the top European sides had figured out how to play against us. Fiorentina, Real and Valencia had all made United look ordinary in the year before we played Bayern in the quarters. And had handled the 4-4-2 formation quite well. This coupled with the fact that a number of the strikers had gone off the boil, namely Yorke (and to an extent Sheringham who was inexplicably dropped from the matches against Bayern) meant that we were easy pickings for a well organised defence. Fergie's options agains Bayern were very limited in terms of streching the play. He ended up instructing Cole and Ole to play almost as outside right and left, almost as wingers. We produced little in the way of changes in the first leg at OT and only a spirited second half performance in Munich saved some face. The penny had finally dropped. The big teams had figured out how to stop us.
'02 In an attempt to add an extra creative dimension to the midfield and attack Fergie signs Veron (and Ruud of course). We play the now infamous 4-5-1 formation in big European games and big domestic fixtures. It was by no means a resounding success. A hopesly off-form Veron and Scholes didn't help the cause but the reality of the formation is this. We played the European champions, Bayern Munich, off the pitch in their own back yard and due to an' individual error' at the back let them sneak a 1-1 draw. But it was obvious who had the upper hand. We destroyed Deportivo in the quarter final, many people's favourites at the time, and due to a succession of injuries to key players (Bex, Gaz, Roy) we unluckily went out in the semis to Leverkusen.
The verdict: 4-5-1 has caused the top European teams another problem to contend with against United and with a fully fit on-form starting eleven we should start to dominate Europe playing this style. God I have too much time on my hands.
'99 We won the Champion's League playing blistering attacking football against teams that simply couldn't handle a midfield quartet at the top of their game and Dwight Yorke approaching world player of year status IMO. We enjoyed a bit of luck on the way mind and tactically the 4-4-2 formation was beginning to become predictable as Bayern almost proved in the final.
'00 Not a great campaign in Europe. Very little tactical diversity as we stuck to our traditional 4-4-2 and eventually was shown up by our away performance at the Bernabau and finally back home against Real. The closest we came to anything approaching a new tactic was playing an defensive 4-4-1 away to Real. We created little in that game and simply didn't look like European champions as we never threatened to get an away goal. Questions should have been asked from that night on.
'01 Again we didn't really set Europe on fire this campaign and it was beginning to become clear that the top European sides had figured out how to play against us. Fiorentina, Real and Valencia had all made United look ordinary in the year before we played Bayern in the quarters. And had handled the 4-4-2 formation quite well. This coupled with the fact that a number of the strikers had gone off the boil, namely Yorke (and to an extent Sheringham who was inexplicably dropped from the matches against Bayern) meant that we were easy pickings for a well organised defence. Fergie's options agains Bayern were very limited in terms of streching the play. He ended up instructing Cole and Ole to play almost as outside right and left, almost as wingers. We produced little in the way of changes in the first leg at OT and only a spirited second half performance in Munich saved some face. The penny had finally dropped. The big teams had figured out how to stop us.
'02 In an attempt to add an extra creative dimension to the midfield and attack Fergie signs Veron (and Ruud of course). We play the now infamous 4-5-1 formation in big European games and big domestic fixtures. It was by no means a resounding success. A hopesly off-form Veron and Scholes didn't help the cause but the reality of the formation is this. We played the European champions, Bayern Munich, off the pitch in their own back yard and due to an' individual error' at the back let them sneak a 1-1 draw. But it was obvious who had the upper hand. We destroyed Deportivo in the quarter final, many people's favourites at the time, and due to a succession of injuries to key players (Bex, Gaz, Roy) we unluckily went out in the semis to Leverkusen.
The verdict: 4-5-1 has caused the top European teams another problem to contend with against United and with a fully fit on-form starting eleven we should start to dominate Europe playing this style. God I have too much time on my hands.
Originally posted by Rory 7:
<strong>The away performances against Bayern and Deportivo were United's best European performances in three years IMO. And they were 4-5-1. Lets face the facts.........
'99 We won the Champion's League playing blistering attacking football against teams that simply couldn't handle a midfield quartet at the top of their game and Dwight Yorke approaching world player of year status IMO. We enjoyed a bit of luck on the way mind and tactically the 4-4-2 formation was beginning to become predictable as Bayern almost proved in the final.
'00 Not a great campaign in Europe. Very little tactical diversity as we stuck to our traditional 4-4-2 and eventually was shown up by our away performance at the Bernabau and finally back home against Real. The closest we came to anything approaching a new tactic was playing an defensive 4-4-1 away to Real. We created little in that game and simply didn't look like European champions as we never threatened to get an away goal. Questions should have been asked from that night on.
'01 Again we didn't really set Europe on fire this campaign and it was beginning to become clear that the top European sides had figured out how to play against us. Fiorentina, Real and Valencia had all made United look ordinary in the year before we played Bayern in the quarters. And had handled the 4-4-2 formation quite well. This coupled with the fact that a number of the strikers had gone off the boil, namely Yorke (and to an extent Sheringham who was inexplicably dropped from the matches against Bayern) meant that we were easy pickings for a well organised defence. Fergie's options agains Bayern were very limited in terms of streching the play. He ended up instructing Cole and Ole to play almost as outside right and left, almost as wingers. We produced little in the way of changes in the first leg at OT and only a spirited second half performance in Munich saved some face. The penny had finally dropped. The big teams had figured out how to stop us.
'02 In an attempt to add an extra creative dimension to the midfield and attack Fergie signs Veron (and Ruud of course). We play the now infamous 4-5-1 formation in big European games and big domestic fixtures. It was by no means a resounding success. A hopesly off-form Veron and Scholes didn't help the cause but the reality of the formation is this. We played the European champions, Bayern Munich, off the pitch in their own back yard and due to an' individual error' at the back let them sneak a 1-1 draw. But it was obvious who had the upper hand. We destroyed Deportivo in the quarter final, many people's favourites at the time, and due to a succession of injuries to key players (Bex, Gaz, Roy) we unluckily went out in the semis to Leverkusen.
The verdict: 4-5-1 has caused the top European teams another problem to contend with against United and with a fully fit on-form starting eleven we should start to dominate Europe playing this style. God I have too much time on my hands.
Very good post
Rory7:
I have too much time on my hands
that's quite all right - it takes time to analyse and make sense, good post
I have too much time on my hands
that's quite all right - it takes time to analyse and make sense, good post
4 - 5 - 1 is a good formation for MU but in seems like the teams will facing scoring difficulties when the opponent's team try to play with desperated defences game. As we seen in last season's game, Nistelrooy is always caught by the offside trap if played as a lone striker. It really sad to watch our 5 very good midfielders grouping outside behind the opponents penalty box and could not attacks because of the 8 - 9 opponent's players building a wall at the border of the penalty box(like the shit Liverpool!).
So i think MU to play 3 - 5 - 2 when the defence was improved with the arrived of Rio Ferdinand. The five midfielder will separates into attacking and defensive role. Keane and Veron will be playing behind giggs, scholes and beckham. By this way, the three attacking midfielder will give good support to Nistelrooy, Forlan or Solskjaer while veron and keane can supports the three attacking midfielders and giving supports to defenders when defending. I think this strategy had been used by Brazil to win the world cup.
So i think MU to play 3 - 5 - 2 when the defence was improved with the arrived of Rio Ferdinand. The five midfielder will separates into attacking and defensive role. Keane and Veron will be playing behind giggs, scholes and beckham. By this way, the three attacking midfielder will give good support to Nistelrooy, Forlan or Solskjaer while veron and keane can supports the three attacking midfielders and giving supports to defenders when defending. I think this strategy had been used by Brazil to win the world cup.
This will not go aver well with RVN.... as he said he'd looking fo r another club if left up front alone, again.
I guess Fergie knows what he's doing ...or I hope so.
has anyone heard any respnse from RVN?
I guess Fergie knows what he's doing ...or I hope so.
has anyone heard any respnse from RVN?